Kansas Wrestling Forums General Discussion Kids Folkstyle Eight and Under 49 lb. Finals - 2009!

A wrestler lost in the finals 1-0 on a call by the official which needs clarification.

The losing wrestler was penalized one (1) penalty point for a body scissor with an arm encircled in the second period. The body scissors is a legal hold.

See Picture 85 on page 17 of the PDF File
NFHS Rules Photos

The losing wrestler was placed in a figure four around the body late in the third period and no penalty point was awarded. The figure four is an illegal hold by definition 7-1-5r, page 37 of the NFHS Wrestling Rules Book, and picture 84 at the above link.

The losing wrestler's coach correctly questioned the call to the official who sought the official from the opposite mat to confer. Both officials failed to make the correct call. This was not a judgment call, this was a rules infraction.

Richard,
A couple points of clarification. The call that was argued was the scissors in the 2nd period. There were two questions that the Boo's school coaches asked for clarification on.

First, was it illegal? The top wrestler clearly had the head and one or both arms scissored (not draping). The rule book is clear that a scissor to the head is illegal even if an arm is included. This is when a second official was called in and it was ruled illegal. The second official stated that “an arm included” includes a straight scissors to the head with both arms extended.

Second, the "Judgment Call" was whether or not the defensive wrestler caused a legal hold (body scissors) to become illegal (head scissors). The official ruled that defensive wrestler did not. I can’t say one way or the other. The offensive wrestler got very high and the bottom wrestler was coming out the back door. I could not see if he had a body scissors prior to coming out the back door. If he had felt that the defensive wrestler caused it to become illegal, the rule book clearly states that he can cause the hold to be released without stopping the match. Based on the positions, the bottom wrestler would have earned an escape or reversal.
At no time was the match stopped to debate a figure 4 of the body.

Coach Massey
Olathe South Falcons

Coach Massey:

Thank you for your account of the events and congratulations to your team wrestler for his outstanding tournament and championship.

I stand corrected on the period and circumstances surrounding the officials conference.

As I recall, the defensive wrestler was scrambling and appeared very near to securing either an escape or reversal. The body scissors was applied prior to the torso slipping out the back door. It is agreed a body scissors is legal. If it became illegal during the scramble by the action of the defensive wrestler the rule which you mention provides:

RULE 7-1-6 (pgs. 37 & 38). . . A wrestler applying a legal hold shall not be penalized when the opponent turns a legal hold into an illegal hold. The referee shall cause the hold to be released when it becomes illegal. The match need not be stopped unless the referee finds it necessary to do so in order to correct the situation. Whenever possible, an illegal hold shall be prevented rather than penalized.

This is where the officials judgment comes into play and I have no issue accepting his version.

The question remains why there was no call for the figure four around the body, which does not require judgment on the part of the mat official but is a rules infraction.

You did see the figure four applied by the offensive wrestler late in the third period?

Richard,
If you are referring to the action prior to the stand-up and stoppage, no I did not see a figure 4. I saw a body scissors that was across the back of the calf and not under the knee. Depending on the vantage point, it very well could have looked like a figure 4.

That aside, I found myself struggling on how to approach this topic. I keep coming back to the same question. Why single out this match? How many matches were wrestled this weekend? There must have been close to two thousand yet this one match is under a microscope? I guess I'm just trying to understand the motive. I don't know if there are coaches out there that find satisfaction in winning 1-0 on a penalty but I can tell you that I don’t. I know Coach Jkelz does not either. The first thing he said to me as time ran out was that he did not like winning that way. It’s not that we felt that the official was incorrect; in fact the video shows he was absolutely correct on both calls. We would have preferred to see these two extremely talented kids decide the outcome with their skills and not penalties. We have all seen kids win or lose on a locked hands call. You win some and you lose some but either way you move on and come back to do it another day and hopefully with better results.

Coach Massey
Olathe South Falcons

Hey a win is a win! Nobody likes to win that way and nobody likes to loose that way either, but rules are rules. there were two refs involved and the call stood.I am sure that there were many many matches this weekend that were lost by one point and a questionable call. I watched this match and they wrestled thier rears off. Nobody should be taking away the glory of this young man's state title. He won fair and square! Congratulations to another one of Kansas's finest state Champs!!!!! Congratulations Jace!!!!

I'm glad the question was brought up. It helped me get clear on a few rules when it comes to scissors and Figure fours. It's a good scenario to remember for future matches.

Massey: Since it is my kid involved in this controversy, could I persuade you tell sell me a copy of the video that way we can clear our minds about it???

Traci Spangler