Kansas Wrestling Forums General Discussion High School refs for 6a

I saw the Seaton Vierya match up close. It is 4-4 with approximately 5 seconds left in the 3rd period. Seaton returns him to the mat and immediately gets hit with locked hands. Vierya landed on his hip and attempted a switch. When he hit the mat Seaton's hands were locked, but immediately were released. There was no time allowed for reaction time from the ref.

It was a tough way to end a 4-4 quarterfinal battle at the state tournament.

Will Cokeley has a very valid argument, ref's need to be evaluated and held accountable in some way.

Sec 16 Article 1-....In awarding a takedown at the edge of the mat, control must be established while the supporting points of either wrestler are inbounds or while at least the feet of the scoring contestant finish down on the mat inbounds.

For most officials, safety comes first which can make stopages look inconsistant. Where mats are joined you tend to see the action continue. Near hardwood or other potential hazzards, they tend to stop the action quicker. The Tanenbaum-Deshazer match is good example. Wrestling continued on the first near takedown because there was room. Later in the match, it was stopped much quicker because one of the wrestlers had a foot off the mat and on the floor. Many of the officials also work kids as well which usually have much small safety areas resulting in quicker stoppage so habit could come into play.

That is weird, I never saw the use of an inhaler all weekend in Salina. You of course can't watch all the mats and I certainly didn't see every match but I never saw a single one used.
Could it be the 4A wrestlers are just better conditioned?

Remember, the officials who officiate at the state tournament are selected by coaches and the administrators. If an official is not "worthy" all the coaches have to do is band together and agree to not name that official and he won't be going.

Also, there should be many close calls at state. And there are going to be controversial calls because it is our best wrestlers out there, working their hardest, and they are going to get in and out of situations quickly. That might mean that calls get reversed, or things happen that aren't "typical." Things like "reaction time" and "control" are going to change when you have good, evenly matched wrestlers.

I agree dwelsh, I have seen some state tourneys myself and I left this one with some bitterness towards the refs. I saw some great wrestling out there, but to have it overshadowed by refs is a shame. Maybe its the world we live in, maybe they feel they should get more recognition...I dont know. I saw too many matches (Championship rounds at least two!) where the refs "judgment" calls defeated a young mans hard work and effort. Now, I am a strong beleiver in telling my kids in all sports "Keep the refs out of it, and play hard!" But this past weekend seemed more like it was centered on the refs, not the wrestlers. To me, the best refs are the ones I don't even know are there, and then magically they show up to award the winner. But its not a perfect world.

I am aware of at least one 5A finals match where the referee blatantly awarded the match to one of the competitors. I don't disagree that officiating is a tough job and all are human. That said, an official who blatantly blows it at that level should be accountable and should not be given a pass. It's not like there isn't a lot of video of the finals matches floating around out there for review.

Is there any review of the state matches to determine the level of competence of each official? What is the process for bringing these issues to the attention of KSHSAA? I know there are no "do-overs" but I personally found it disturbing to watch the official in question yucking it up minutes after he demonstrated his incompetence to the whole world.

hmmmmm

I thought the 4A refs were really sound. I was surprised to see all of the young referees there, but they did a great job. There are always calls I don't like, but overall, with a lot of great, close matches, I thought 4A did a great job.

On a side note, I wish during the ref recommendation selection for state there were pictures of all of the referees, though as I remember their faces, but if I don't have a card with a picture on it or if it is not on the KSHSAA site, then I can't remember who is who. I

That is why I asked, at least at the youth level, to have the referees have name patches rather than Number patches. Every year when the district director asks for names, I can think of refs' faces, but have no clue what their names are.

As a member of the HA Committee I want to make a recommendation: If it takes more than two grown men to carry a downed official off of the mat, he is too big to physically be able to perform his job.

Did anyone else find the last 5 seconds of the Blair-Son match disgusting. I compliment Cade for keeping his composure as I'm not sure to many wrestlers could of kept their "cool" as Cade did being slapped several time in the last 5 seconds. I guess he thought he was beat and wanted to get a few licks in. Very unclassy! If someone has the video. I would like to see it again and if I'm wrong, I will apoligize. Thanks

Sorry! I should of posted this on another post. This was a 4A finals match.

Agree on the Blair match. Cade to classy to take the bait. Also saw some interesting post match activity in the 130 match. Not sure what the point of it was maybe it was nothing. Or maybe a kid could just be happy shake hands and go celebrate with his coach after a hard fought match.

I do think refs could do a better job calling stalling or more quickly call a stalemate and restart. Lot of kids just sitting on the bottom doing nothing.
Seemed like 4A ramped up the stalling warning in the finals but earlier Saturday in Salina and all day Friday in Wichita I thought it was lax

Did the ref penalize Son?

I was appalled at the temper tantrum shown by one of the wrestlers in his loss in the heavyweights. Given that my daughter was at the dasher taking yearbook photos and was in his direct path as he smacked thru the barricade, tossing it 4 feet, ramming into her as he barrelled thru in the process and then proceeded to biff a trash can before exiting the floor. If refs have time to "listen to coaches" in corners, surely a 6'+ Heavyweight "losing it" as he comes off the mat should have rated some sort of censure. I was very surprised to see that wrestler continue on in the brackets.

i agree 100%

On Will's suggestion, how about if you are just a little too heavy and maybe they couldn't lift you but they could maybe still drag you off fairly easily?

I've seen a lot of calls that were lambasted as bad calls that just don't hold up once the videos are released...so if there are some really poor calls, let's have the proof....post the film...

Just curious;
Did anyone (besides Derby and Goddard fans) think that Little (derby) should have had 2-near fall points when he put Holden (goddard) on his back in the 2nd period??
I thought MAYBE the ref was late getting there on that one, but I could be wrong.

yeah i thought he had gotten back points until you pointed that out and yes he shouldve have back points for that one

dwelsh: No he didn't and I thought it was bad enough to DQ and take away all his earlier points. Of course, it's easy for me to set in the stands and say that but if they had done that, it would be easier for the coaches to use it as a learning experience for the "hot heads" as to what they could cost a team. I was really impressed with about 98% of the wrestlers atitude, win or lose, as I know how frustrating it can be to work so hard for something and then come up short after the match but this happened on the clock after the match was obviously decided. I know some wrestlers read this blog and thought they might learn something from the video if it's avaiable. I'm definitely not exspecting a "lovefest" at the conclusion of a match but a little mutual respect for one another might encurage more wrestlers to get involved in this great sport. If one of my grandson's did this, I would kick his a$$$$ from here to China! Thanks, Matt