Kansas Wrestling Forums General Discussion High School Class Power - On Paper

Using the Chief's most recent all-class rankings, I have assigned points for wrestlers ranked 1st - 5th place, as follows:

1st place ... 5 points
2nd place ... 4 points
3rd place ... 3 points
4th place ... 2 points
5th place ... 1 point

This is how each class fared:

class 5A ... 74 points
class 6A ... 71 points
class 4A ... 46 points
class 321A 19 points

Class 5A had 9 wrestlers ranked # 1
Class 4A had 3 wrestlers ranked # 1
class 6A had 2 wrestlers ranked # 1

Class 6A had 8 wrestlers ranked # 2
Class 5A had 3 wrestlers ranked # 2
Class 321A had 2 wrestlers ranked # 2
Class 4A had 1 wrestler ranked # 2

Class 4A had 6 wrestlers ranked # 3
Class 6A had 4 wrestlers ranked # 3
Class 5A had 3 wrestlers ranked # 3
Class 321A had 1 wrestler ranked # 3

Class 6A had 5 wrestlers ranked # 4
Class 321A had 4 wrestlers ranked # 4
Class 4A had 3 wrestlers ranked # 4
Class 5A had 2 wrestlers ranked # 4

Class 6A had 7 wrestlers ranked # 5
Class 5A had 4 wrestlers ranked # 5
Class 4A had 3 wrestlers ranked # 5

Nice job 69. The Dual matches showed the same order. Those half dozen Goddard wrestlers sure help 6A!

Bishop Carroll's contributions didn't hurt 5A either. I've long heard it said that 4A is superior to 6A. Doesn't much look that way this year and 6A is right on 5A's heels! I'm looking forward to the Chanute tournament when Goddard and Bishop Carroll meet up again:

1. Will Caldwell try and redeem himself against Arnold?

(doubtful ... he'll go 140 lbs).

2. Will Caldwell then wrestle Holden or Means?

(My guess would be Holden)

3. Will Fisher again be couting ceiling tiles at the end of his match with Detmer?

(if he (Fisher) avoids a pin, it is my understanding that it will be the first time this year (in Kansas) that Detmer hasn't stuck his opponent)

4. Will Boaz Beard finally surface, after injury?

(I'd sure like to see him join the frey. It seems like a pretty good tournament to begin preparation for state.

Hide and watch!

Since Caldwell, Houlden and Means are all teammates how do you propose this occur?

Good point! I guess what I meant to ask is: who will Goddard send against Arnold at 145 lbs?

1. Caldwell will only go 140 to help the team. He's not dodging Arnold.

2. Caldwell wrestling Houlden or Means? In a challenge match?

3. As good as Detmer is. Don't count on Fisher getting pinned again.

4. Welcome back Boaz Beard!

Detmer pinned Hynick their first meeting last year, then lost a decision to him about a week or two later. When two really good wrestlers hook up you never know what might happen.

Chief, in response to your comment: "Caldwell will only go 140 to help the team. He's not dodging Arnold":

When they first wrestled, I thought Caldwell would win a close match - believing Caldwell's superior skill set would likely prevail against Arnold's tenacity and aggression. Now ... I'm not so sure that Caldwell is any more skillful than Arnold, nor, for that matter that Arnold is any more tenacious and/or aggressive than Caldwell. Too the contrary, I think that they are pretty evenly matched and on any given day, either wrestler could prevail and few would consider it an upset. I've always thought that it's really tough to beat an elite wrestler twice, so I would given Caldwell the nod on a rematch.

With that said, while not disagreeing with your comments, I'm not quite sure I understand the tactical mindset involved at the Chanute Tournament in moving Caldwell down to 140 lbs and probably moving Holden up to 145 lbs to face Arnold - save possible seeding at state (which I don't pretend to understand). To my way of thinking, allowing Caldwell to again face Arnold at Chanute would probably put more points on the board for Goddard as Arnold would probably have a rougher go against Caldwell as opposed to Holden - in fact, as mentioned earlier, it would not surprise me that Caldwell would win against Arnold and with Holden, the likelihood of a victory is diminished to an extent and there remains a possibility that Holden could even get pinned (no offense intended against Holden, who I have seen wrestle a number of times and who impresses me as a great wrestler and double tough young man. Now, all of this presumes (as I'm not familiar with the competition) that if Holden were allowed to wrestle at 140 lbs, Goddard would still be OK and get the same points, and maybe that is what I'm missing. Care to comment?

I think your right about detmer and fisher, it should be more competitive the second time around, just curious if anyone knows if detmer has given up a takedown this year?

The "helping the team" comment is due to Houlden not being able to make 140. I don't know how Ryan made 135 at Wellington, but I spoke to all three of them at the Bobcat and Caldwell would rather wrestle 145, but can make 140 easier than Ryan. I agree with the point scenario above. It's the weight issue that is keeping Tyler at 140 and Ryan 145. Fisher could easily make 145 also. He is walking around at 150.

Thanks for your insight.

Thanks for your insight.

Chief, when you comment: "Fisher could easily wrestle 145 also...", are you intimating that possibility? that'd be a great match as well, however, I got to admit ... For pure entertainment value,I was looking forward to a Caldwell/Arnold & Detmer/Fisher rematch.

I should also mention that even though I like to think that I understand the stratigic and/or tactical advantages in avoiding competition between elite wrestlers ... I nonetheless hold in great esteem those wrestlers who either willingly accept or seek out difficult opponents (tactics, records, ego, state considerations or anything else, be damned!) This year I recall reading that Kober (who, at that time, I've never even heard of, and in these threads,I was later justifiably asked: "Do you know anything about wrestling?" - if I had to respond, I would have had to have admitted: not all that much!) had bumped up to face Atticus Disney. He lost by a point. At that moment, I became a big fan of Kober! Last year, at Newton, Isenberg put his record on the line and confronted Arnold. He won. I was there (best wrestling match I ever saw) To this day, I root for Isenberg ... and always will! And still retain the upmost respect for Mitch Arnold's heart and considerable wrestling skills (to my knowledge, he never ducked no one). I could cite many more wrestlers in this category.

The lower ranked wrestlers do not enjoy this privilige. They have got to face all comers. Their coaches could care less about all of this other stuff. I've seen some of these "elete" wrestlers "toy" with inferior opponents. I don't like it! I never did! I never will! I root against them! Maybe they know who they are. The wrestlerx that I admire and respect are the wrestlers who stick a kid in short order ... rather than one who "toys" with his inferior opponent for as long as he can before he sticks him. Maybe thats just me.

Chief: Do you buy into to your earlier remarks?

I was saying that Fisher is a light 152. He is also making room for Houlden at 145 to help the team.

What "stratigic and/or tactical advantages"? To my knowledge I have never seen a coach or coaches keep two elite wrestlers from wrestling each other.

"The lower ranked wrestlers do not enjoy this privilige. They have got to face all comers. Their coaches could care less about all of this other stuff. I've seen some of these "elete" wrestlers "toy" with inferior opponents. I don't like it! I never did! I never will! I root against them! Maybe they know who they are. The wrestlerx that I admire and respect are the wrestlers who stick a kid in short order ... rather than one who "toys" with his inferior opponent for as long as he can before he sticks him. Maybe thats just me."

Now, I might have to disagree some on this. I don't know if it's playing around or getting some work in. Especially in two day tournaments where you have to make weight twice. Sometimes you need that extra mat time to burn another 5/10ths or so. Now I am not big on being flagrant. But if you are just wrestling hard I think that's o.k.. However, what do I know?



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Oh, and I know it's not the best 5a 6a combined team but I would not mind putting this group of City League Wrestlers up against anyone.

103 Penka Bishop Carroll
112 Deshazer - Heights
119 Keller - Bishop Carroll
125 Keller - Bishop Carroll
130 Maple - Heights
135 Nelson - Heights
140 Hagan - Kapaun - might have to bump up
145 Arnold - Bishop Carroll
152 Detmer - Bishop Carroll
160 Rosenhammer/Cody - Bishop Carroll
171 Truman - Kapaun
189 Page - Northwest
215 Caylor - Northwest
285 Heithieus - Northwest

This does not include the outskirts of Wichita - Valley Center, Goddard, Andale, Andover, Andover Central, Maize, etc.

I saw a coach move his wrestlers around trying to gain points on the duel this last weekend. It had the potential to be a very close duel, so the coach (Team A) waited until the (Team B) showed which wrestler was wrestling that match. The (Team B) had brought a JV wrestler to wrestle some on the different duels for experience. (Team A) knew if they wrestled(Team B)straight up (varsity / varsity) on both matches, they (team A) would probably lose both matches. So once(Team B)showed they were wrestling both varsity wrestlers, they (Team A) bumped one up to try and win the 2nd match, knowing they would probably lose the 1st match anyways.
The 1st match would of put 2 elite wrestlers against each other.

A fine line-up Mike. However.... Even the rest of Kansas can beat this team in a dual at 9 weights.

103 - Vesta
112 - Slyter/Callahan
135 - Means
140 - Caldwell/Isenberg
160 - Bonewell/Thoman
171 - Beard
189 - Cotton
215 - Bach
285 - Disney/Zlatnik