Kansas Wrestling Forums General Discussion High School I don't get it

I went to the JC tourney. A couple of kids won due to this:

Sean Gaither WNW-forfeited 3rd place match due to 5 match limit

With a tourney that doesn't have that many teams, how does one get to that five match limit? Its not like it was a 64 man bracket are something. I don't get it. Someone please explain.

I'm not sure where you are going with this post but there were actually two wrestlers who had to forfeit their third place matches. Here is it how it happened in Sean's case:

(1) 1st round: Won
(2) 2nd round: Lost
(3) 2nd round consolation: Won
(4) 3rd round consolation: Won
(5) 4th round consolation (semifinals): Won

And there you have it. Five matches before the consolation finals.

In a sixteen (16) person bracket:

Match One
First Round - Loss

Match Two
Consolation First Round - Win

Match Three
Consolation Second Round - Win

Match Four
Consolation Quarterfinals - Win

Match Five
Consolation Semifinals - Win and forfeit Third Place Match
Consolation Semifinals - Lose and forfeit Fifth Place Match (if tournament is wrestled to six placements.)

I remember this coming up years ago at Piper, and the solution we used was having no match, splitting the team points and declaring each kid as third place finisher. I know that's not according to the rules, but it seems more fair than what we're doing now. It's not that kid's fault that's coming up on a sixth match that that's the way the bracket worked out.

Another solution would be to only wrestle for true fifth and guarantee all semi-finalists are no worse than fourth. Just never been a fan of the forfeits.

You would think we could look at periods wrestled instead. If we having a five match limit turn that to 15 regular periods (not including over-time periods) If a kid shows up with a big heart, and wrestles his (you know what off)and has some matches that don't go the distance. Than why should he be punished and left out of the lime light at the end of the night? Surely we could come up with a better solution.

Good points gentlemen. Thank you.

119
Zane Tannenbaum BVN
Austin Lorson TW
Kevin Frazier Man
Lance Maldonado JC

Now, what says Sir Richard? I'm not the smartest dude in the world but I have been going to tourneys for over 25 years and have never seen this kind of stuff before. So, is this a new rule for this year? I'm not looking to pick fights (ie. Jim above asking "I'm not sure where you are going with this post...") - just seeking understanding. Thank you gentlemen.

I've seen this happen at two tournaments this season. At Wellington, one of our fellow poster's son could not wrestle his third place match due to this rule. He actually only wrestled four matches and also won a match by injury default. Still counted as five matches.

Wow and Ghez!

Is this a NEW RULE for this year? Thanks Jim.

I'm not sure exactly how long ... but it has been around for a few years anyway!!

Thanks Randy.

And, what does everybody think of this rule?

I assume it was put into place for the health and safety of the kids. Have some HS kids been physically HURT by wrestling 5 in a row and that is why they put the rule in place (ala, Chamberlain bringing on the three second lane in basketball -- had to change the rule due to one player)?

I remembered wrestling five in one day many, many summers ago. I was a tired young man, but I survived it.

Again, others please share your thoughts regarding this rule.

Thanks.

Lance Maldonado also had the 5 matches in his consolation final and had to forfeit. I myself, do not agree with the rule and don't expect it to change.

Dean,
This rule has been in place for a number of years. I understand the reason for the rule, but I think it needs to be tweaked. Rather than a five match limit (which includes defaults, forfeits, etc..), why couldn't the daily wrestling limit be based on time and/or peroids. If for example a wrestler is able to pin two opponents inside a minute and be awarded a default, they wouldn't be charged with 3 matches even though they wrestled less than 2 minutes. In this system, the total time would be added up and subtracted from the total a wrestler is allowed for a day (30 minutes would be equal to 5 matches..with no overtimes). If we used peroids they would have wrestled 2 of a possible 15 for the day. It seems logical, but I'm sure someone would find problems. Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth.
~John Steiger

Good insights as always John. Thanks for sharing. For all the years its been in place, I have never seen it. But, then again -I'm not the smartest/most observant dude in the world! ;-)

Drop me an email and let me know how things are going (if you have time and interest).

Take care friend.

Dean

The five match rule has been in effect since around 1994-95 when it was changed from four per day with a one hour rest mandated in between. More and more people are running up against this rule because more schools are needed in one-day tournaments in order to get the brackets full. "Back in the day" an 8 team tournament required only eight schools to fill the brackets; now, it seems at least ten or eleven schools are required to fill an 8 man bracket in most weights. This leads to brackets that contain more than eight wrestlers; these are handled either with bunny brackets (lose one and you're done) or as a 12 man bracket (essentially a sixteen man bracket). This format adds two rounds of wrestling--one on the front and one on the back which increases the chances of a wrestler having six matches in a day if he wins and loses in the correct combination (see above).

All this said, I too think it is time to expand the daily limit to six matches per day.

Well said Egg. Thanks! And, I agree - give them a six a day. A little weanie like me handled eight in a day, back in the day!

;-)