Kansas Wrestling Forums General Discussion Kids Folkstyle 5 man brackets @ Subs

What are your thoughts on 8 man brackets at subs w/ only 5 kids.

Personally, I would prefer round robins. I don't like that the winner of the match between the 4th and 5th seeds automatically qualifies for districts.

As far as I know Greg, that is just how it is. It is just like having buys in the State Wrestling Tournament when good quality wrestlers could have filled them. For example, and this did happen a couple of years ago -

Dist W (2 wrestlers)
Dist X (2 wrestlers)
Dist Y (4 wrestlers)
Dist Z (8 wrestlers).

Dist Z is the only one where kids will have to win two matches to make it to State, whereas, in the other three in this example, mutiple wrestlers may get in without winning a match - including Subs. Now you have a sixteen man bracket with four buys in it, while four wrestlers from Dist Z, some which are likely as good if not better than some of the other wrestlers from the other Districts, will be sitting at home instead of being allowed to wrestle State.

Don't they allow walk ins for open brackets at state?

Only middle schoolers that have been involved in a middle school program during the qualifiers. To my knowledge all the middle school programs now are done before subs and thus we have not had a walk-on for many many years. BTW it does not matter if the bracket is full or not for them to walk-on at state.

I made it clear at our subdistrict seeding meeting that I believe 5 man brackets should be round robin. Someone stated that it was a state rule that they be bracketed. Silly

I still think that was a misinterpretation of the rule but I would defer to Richard on that. I can't remember anything in the rules that would preclude us from bracketing 5 man as round-robins. I would prefer it from the standpoint of if they have one man scratch they automatically by rule have to be rebracketed to a 4 man round-robin anyway. HOWEVER, I do not want any future rules to read that if a bracket drops AFTER seeding into a 5 man bracket that it has to be rebracketed to a round-robin. BUT, if at the time of seeding, a bracket has only 5 men, then make it a round-robin!

With Trackwrestling it doesn't matter, you click a button and it is rebracketed, no big deal. If all of these "it's for the kids" talkers would put their heads on straight, they would realize that a 5 man round robin would do ALL of the kids a lot more good than the 5 man in an 8 man bracket, where every kid in the bracket would get a max of 2 matches, except for the loser of the 4vs5seed m atch, who would get 3.

PART B – QUALIFYING FOLKSTYLE TOURNAMENTS
9. All Junior High Wrestlers that were participating in a school affiliated (KSHSAA) wrestling program on the same day as a qualifier, will be permitted to wrestle in the next level tournament.

PART B – QUALIFYING FOLKSTYLE TOURNAMENTS
13. Rules Modifications (references to NFSHSA rules book):
Rule 10-4
In the event of a bracket with three or four wrestlers, there will be a round robin. In the event of a two-man bracket they will wrestle the best two out of three matches.

I understand that to mean you have to do a round robin on 3 and 4 man brackets. The option is there for doing a round robing on a 5 man. I personally believe you should do a Round Robin with 5 wrestlers.

Yes but I don't want to be mandated into having to rebracket the day of the tournament if scratches occur in an 8 man bracket. I am still not convinced we will be using Trackwrestling 5 years from now so I don't want the rule to dictate that once a bracket falls to a 5 man it has to be rebracketed as has been determined with a 4 man. Instead, on the day of seeding, if a bracket has 5 competitors in it, you bracket it as a 5 man round robin and be done with it period. If an 8 man bracket falls to 5 competitors after weigh-ins that's just the luck of the draw and you do not rebracket.

The COMMON SENSE thing to do is to change the rule to state that in any circumstance that a bracket ends up with five or less competitors it becomes a round robin bracket. The wrestlers get four matches, the placing is determined in the most fair way, and everyone is much happier. I am sure that if this rule change was taken to the state body it would pass convincingly. Another benefit is the fact that you would NOT have to seed five man brackets during the seeding meeting.

it wouldn't take a total rebracketing. you need 10 matches to wrestle a 5 man round robin. in an 8 man bracket with 5 wrestlers there are spots for ten matches, using the byes and the fifth place match. it would mess up the numbers any more than a seeded wrestler who scratches, or doesn't make weight.

sports fan- you can't do for some and not for others.you are usually much more liberal on your posts, i like the "luck of the draw" thing too, but in todays society, it's not possible. it's called discrimination, you can't single out anyone and treat them differently. if a 5man rr is good for one, it has to be good for all.

With trackwrestling the bout numbering is not done until all of the scratches have been removed. It would no additional work to rebracket.

IMO, 5 wrestlers should = RR. When you only advance 4, a RR of 5 is the only way to settle who the top 4 should be.

lets look at changing the rule for next year.

Common Sense here...

If a 5 man RR has a scratch on the 2-man side of the 8-man bracket, the entire bracket needs to be reworked. Can not bye to Finals.

If the scratch happens in a RR, there is no problem.


Have personally thought this needed this change for years!!

No offense to anyone posting here, but this is a no brainer, don't know why it even needs discussion. Let's get it on the "ballot" for voting on next year.

The more mat time for the kids, the better off they are. It is disappointing to go to subs or districts and have a kid only wrestle 2 matches.

I don't see why any rule change is needed. Since Richard has clarified that nothing prevents each district from bracketing 5 men into round-robins I don't see why we would even have to mess with the rules.