Kansas Wrestling Forums General Discussion High School Split this forum into multiple subforums?

Didn't mean to upset the order of things in what is obviously viewed by many around here as the holy grail of message boards where everything is perfect with no changes needed. I just made a recommendation which IMO would be an improvement. The people have spoken and apparently disagree with my suggestion. As I said earlier today, I appreciate the consideration.

Not sure about MIZZOU Football but they definitely have a pretty darn good D1 Wrestling Program which is what I prefer when talking BIG 12 Sports. Something you probably miss out on.

I'll be at the Hearnes Center Thursday to check out the 09/10 line-up against Illinois.

MIZ

It was just a sarcastic comment that would correlate the splitting of the forum to the splitting of the state tournaments. 321A, according to Mr. Bowden, desires to NEVER be grouped with 4A, 5A, and 6A at a state tournament.

How about a post or pole on how many want a single site state tournment like 90% of the rest of the United States? I vote yes! I would like to be able to see EVERYONE wrestle!

Very good point! Seems to be "united we stand" regarding the forums but when it comes to the biggest event in state level wrestling...not so much.

Rick told me, in an email, that he NEVER reads talk forums because they have nothing to offer him. He sleeps with the KSHSAA Handbook under his pillow but has no interest in hearing what anyone has to say unless they are an Coach, AD, or Administrator. He clearly feels his bread is buttered by only employees of the MEMBER SCHOOLS of the KSHSAA and has no regard for taxpaying parents of students in our school systems.

This year's pet peeve. The STUPID buffer week!

Since I'm new would appreciate someone explain the Buffer Week rule...specifically the reasoning behind the rule.

I have been told the reasoning is based on ensuring HS athletes do not get burned out with back to back extra curriculas.

The buffer week makes absolutely no sense for those athletes who do not participate in a fall sport.

It still doesn't make any sense for the kid who plays a fall sport where their team didn't participate in a play-off.

Is the KHSAA handbook available on digits. I looked around the website and didn't find it.

I think this used to be the week of state football and was designed so that state football players would not miss any winter sport practices and towns with state football teams would start practice at the same time as non state bound football teams.

Start at the bottom and work your way up...



Mr. Cokeley

I’ve explained the rules writing process for the KSHSAA in detail before that I’m afraid any additional explanation will be of little value but I will try again to explain the process.

The schools via their leagues select persons to represent the member schools of a league on the rules writing body – the board of directors. The representatives of the league schools can be school administrators, coaches, sponsors.

The State Board of Education selects two of their members to serve on the board of directors.

The State Board of Education then selects four additional persons at large from the state to serve on the board of directors to assure ethnic diversity on the board of directors.

Schools within each congressional district elect two persons (who are local BOE members) from each Congressional district to also serve on the Board of Directors – one person is selected by the smaller schools and one is selected by the larger schools.

Each one of the five organizations representing the Association of Scholar Bowl coaches, the Coaches Association, the Interscholastic Athletic Administrators, the Music Educators Association and the Speech Coaches association also selects one person from each group to serve on the Board of Directors.

Junior High/Middles schools within each of the four congressional districts selects one person to represent MS/JH and two additional persons selected at large to represent MS/JH on the board of directors.

Those 25 persons join the representatives selected by the member schools of every league to form the board of directors. Independent schools (those not members of a league also select one person to represent the independent schools on the board of directors). Those 53 persons along with the 25 previously selected form the board of directors. The board of directors is the legislative body of the KSHSAA and it meets two times a year to consider any proposed rules changes.

Any member school, any league, local board of education can propose a change to any rules of the KSHSAA.

From the membership of the Board of Directors an Executive Board is selected. The Executive Board meets 6 times a year and reviews interpretations of KSHSAA rules and has general control over all activities and contests between the member schools.

In addition to the legislative body (the board of directors) and the administrative body (the executive board) the KSHSAA also has provisions for an Appeal Board composed of individuals who sit neither on the Executive Board or the Board of Directors. The appeals board hears appeals from any student, parent or guardian of any student, or any member school aggrieved by an decision of the Board of Directors or the Executive Board or any of the officers or employees of the KSHSAA.

It is my understanding that the specific rule re: the buffer week was adopted by the KSHSAA Board of Directors at the request of the member schools to provide some break between the fall and sports seasons for students, coaches. It also provides a period of time that the students involved in various non-athletic activities can re-engage in such activities as musical and theatrical presentations schools traditional provide for the students and parents.

Rick Bowden

From: William Cokeley [mailto:WCokeley@Silgancontainers.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:55 AM
To: Rick Bowden
Subject: RE: Buffer Week

Mr. Bowden,

So the rule discriminates against the schools who don’t have football teams that advance this far into the playoffs? Nice. Am I suppose to understand that we have hundreds of millions of dollars worth of facilities and equipment to use and we are supposed to just let them collect dust for a week? This makes sense? NO WAY! This is as stupid as the rule that doesn’t allow the use of school owned transportation during the summer. Schools are businesses too or should be treated that way. I guess it is hard to comprehend that when you have an organization that has really never had to figure out how to make a profit. Can you imagine if the U.S. Government said we had to shut all of our factories down for one week? I try to understand the rationale but if you have kids who want to come to school early or stay late to do ANYTHING productive we should let them. It is way better than having them hanging out somewhere smoking, dipping, fighting, doing drugs, or whatever. There is no common sense behind this rule.

It appears that over the years rules just keep getting added to the handbook for the sake of justifying having a rules committee. The handbook needs to be overhauled and it shouldn’t take years to do so. You keep talking about democratic representation but it isn’t. Your organization is so incestuous that it is a joke. Everything is done on the inside, no one from outside of the school systems is allowed to participate in your processes.

Since you haven’t addressed weights I would interpret this to mean that you can. Why is your interpretation the law?

This rule basically encourages schools to create conditioning and weight classes instead of having traditional academics being taught.

I know you are just the messenger and I do feel bad that we have such an adversarial relationship but the organization you work for needs to have some checks and balances. We are suppose to be living in the land of the free and every rule and interpretation you hand down encroach upon our freedom. Someone has to push back.


Will Cokeley
(785) 842-7546 Office
(509) 267-7060 Fax
(708) 267-6615 Cell




From: Rick Bowden [mailto:RBowden@kshsaa.org]
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:29 AM
To: William Cokeley
Subject: RE: Buffer Week

Mr. Cokeley

Yes, the Executive Board’s interpretation of the rule is that outside of school hours, all athletic practices (with the exception of football teams still in the playoffs), work out programs (including the use of weights – even on a voluntary basis) outside school hours during the buffer week are not permitted.

Rick Bowden

From: William Cokeley [mailto:WCokeley@Silgancontainers.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:25 AM
To: Rick Bowden
Subject: Buffer Week

FALL ATHLETIC BUFFER WEEK
Mr. Bowden,

Does this Article rule out the use of school owned weight equipment on a voluntary basis? Specifically, are students prohibited from lifting weights before or after school during this week?

Thank you.

Will Cokeley




Art. 1: There shall be no athletic practice, off-season conditioning,
informal basketball shooting, working out
on wrestling mats, etc., in school-owned facilities
during the Fall Athletic Buffer Week, commencing on
Monday of Standardized Calendar Week (SCW) #19,
through Sunday, SCW #20. Athletic activities of this
nature may not be held under the supervision of a
school staff member in non-school facilities. This means
a moratorium on all school-sponsored athletic activities
during this week.
Gymnasiums shall not be open to the students during
the Fall Athletic Buffer Week for the purpose of shooting
baskets, working out with weights, etc., outside
of school hours. Noon hour and physical education
classes are considered part of the school day.
The Fall Athletic Buffer Week does not eliminate football
practice for those senior high schools who qualify for
football play-offs until such time their football season is
over. The same applies to the gymnastics program.
EXCEPTION: Players, no more than three boys and
three girls from each participating school’s basketball
team, will be allowed to participate in clinics designed
to promote and improve basketball officiating prior to
SCW #20. The following restrictions will apply:
a. The clinic must be approved by the Kansas State
High School Activities Association
b. Students may participate in only one such clinic per
year.

Will Cokeley
Director, IT
Silgan Containers Corporation
(785) 842-7546 Office
(509) 267-7060 Fax
(708) 267-6615 Cell

WIll,

Thanks for the background. MO has a hands off week as well but this week off is set by the school AD and coach and doesn't have anything to do with a break between seasons. Each week off is different for every sport and is based on what gthe head coach feels is a slow time for their sport. The basketball team couldn't start their first official practice day until yesterday but wrestling season start was 2 November with open mats going since the first week of school in Aug. Open mats is of course volun-tory.

Yeah apples and oranges...definitely no correlation IRT change for the better.

I see a benefit to the buffer week. Our young athletes get beat up and worn down playing football. There is time for little else than school, practice, dinner and homework. A few days of "downtime" can be rejuvenating both physically and mentally.

Those who still want to workout during that week will find plently of opportunities outside of school.

Since the thread has been hijacked already, and since the original post had to do with improving the high school forum, I'll mention something that I've noticed about the high school forum over the past several years.

There seems to be far less participation on the forum by high schoolers. I think this message board was a better place with the posts of Curtis, Nigel, Sweazy, Prant, Jhris, LancerM, Bronco Wrestler, and others who I can't think of right now. I know some of them still post here, but they are no longer high school wrestlers, and I don't really see any current wrestlers really taking their place here on the forum.

I think the forum benefits from the viewpoint of the participants and is more interesting with a broader mix of posters. Maybe it's my imagination.

Yet 25% of the football teams are still practicing today while 100% of those who didn't do a fall sport are not allowed to even lift weights, jump rope, or whatever. Why should we be forced to find or pay for other workout opportunities when our tax dollars have already provided the equipment and facilities? Make some sense out of your position for those who didn't play a fall sport????

Can kids clubs have wrestling practice in School wrestling rooms this week?

Yes, providing your high school allows the use of the facility. The buffer week only applies to KSHSAA sponsored activities and has NO affect on USAW Kansas Kids Wrestling.

Yeah, as far as KU is concerned football is alive and well at MIZZOU!

Must have touched a nerve earlier - too bad your whole season revolves around one game. Hope you had a nice holiday.