I'll try to answer these in the order received.
Wow
Then wouldn't it be funny to see video of these refs actions put on a site like youtube and then links posted on here. You can do the samething for coaches. I don't care. Over the last year or so I here is what I have seen
Refs put their hands on coaches or wrestlers. Grabbing of the arm or finger pointing to the chest.
Refs advising a wrestler during a match.
The smell of alcohol on a ref.
Numerous counts of profanity to coaches and even table workers.
Have I seen coaches do the exact same thing...
Well all except about two of them.
But my point is there is a checks and balances system for a coach or a wrestlers behavior.
Where is that for same system for a ref.
When a ref behaves like this what action can be taken from our end.
I did hear of one tournament this year where a ref was asked to leave but I don't know for sure.
I know everyone can get passionate even a ref but couldn't it be argued that they should be held to an even higher standard then a coach or a wrestler.
I'm not saying all refs are bad and I understand a guy can have a bad weekend.
But shouldn't there be some sort of checks and balances system or a way to hold these people to a standard and be able to provide HONEST feedback to them without the fear of not being able to coach your team the following week cause a ref is a little to pridefull to admit he made a mistake.
I of all people realize there are some officials across the state that do not measure up to the standards which are asked and required of them in their position. The NFHS, KSHSAA, and even USAWKS are very clear about every issue that encompasses the officials in this state. To be perfectly honest is bothers me very much even to see an official not wearing the correct uniform. I've seen guys out there with wind pants on, wrestling shoes of neon green to bleach white color, and everything in between. It is really not in my capacity to tell these guys that they do not conform to the rules set forth for them.
The list which you provided to me, does not come as a shock to me at all. If an issue comes up that you feel strongly about concerning an official comes up then you should perhaps take it upon yourself to bring the matter to the attention of the people whom it is relevant. At a kids tournament, that would be the tournament director and then to the State, at a high school tournament, that would be the tournament director or the athletic direction, and if no joy there, then the next step up is KSHSAA. Serious issues like alcohol use, tobacco use, and physical assault are things that really should be brought to attention, and yet for some reason they are not, and where does the responsibility for that lay? Answer: on the people who choose to stay silent about it.
Understand that the serious issues I was talking about are not the same as just generally being upset at a call that an official made and then coming here to blast them. If an official blatently disregards the standards which they are expected to be held to then by all means, bring it up and make it known, if an official makes a call on that mat that is questionable, this really shouldn't be the place to come and whine about it.
Well then that settles it. wrestlingspectat. If you know the guy then the coach must be in the wrong. Please forgive me I was not aware that you knew the official which of course to be repetative means Cody was wrong and should have been ejected. Now I get it. By the way, who are you??
Now I did not say that Cody should have been ejected because I myself was not standing there listening to the conversation. What I did say was that he was ejected, and the committee which was composed of some highly respected individuals both from the officiating perspective and the direction of tournaments perspective, felt strongly enough to agree with it, I would say that is a good indication that what did happen was warranted. I doubt very much that this group of individuals are going to stake their reputation on an issue like this and then go in the back and pop a bottle of champagne while bragging about how they are infallible. Now as far as who I am, let's just say that you know me quite well.
I see what you mean here and I don't completely agree with you, but that is part of coaching in every sport. The coach has to at some point have some interaction with the ref. Now how he does it will be the difference of its effectiveness.
Can you honestly say in a scramble you have never stood up and said thats 2 thats 2. I don't think anyone that has ever sat at matside can answer no to that question.
I don't think any coach tries to assume the role of the ref, they are just trying to help the kids get what point might be owed to them.
Watching the same mat later that day almost the exact same thing happened with the same ref. That coach did go crazy and a big battle at the table kicked off. I heard the ref say "every call I make is the right call because I made and that is it" I just laughed and walked on.
As I stated, a coach just being excited and being caught in the moment yelling out things like "back points" and "watch the knee", is commonplace and frankly is harmless, and understood. What we are talking about however is those that take it upon themselves to direct the official in his duties. Utterances like "you gotta make X wrestler work" or "he has to take him back down to the mat" aren't really in the same realm. Those types of statements are directed solely at the official and not meant for advocation. Certainly you can understand the difference.
I witnessed the whole thing and Cody Reynolds didnt do a damn thing or raise his voice at all!If anything the ref threatened Cody by raising his fist when he gave him the warning.I guess I would be in a bad mood if I didnt get any in months.What B/S
LOL, Lord forbid if an official actually gives the correct signal for a coach misconduct (Arm raised 90 degrees to the body with a closed fist in in fact the correct signal for coach misconduct aka warning). As for him not doing anything wrong... if he was questioning a judgment call, then that would be clue #1 that he was in fact doing something wrong, #2 would be to continue a conversation after a misconduct warning is given.
Look it's fairly simple. There are new officials, bad officials, mediocre officials, ok officials, good officials, great officials, and outstanding officials. I tend to believe that there tend to be more officials on the okay to great side here in Kansas than there are on the bad and mediocre side. The job of a wrestling official is far more challenging than most people who've never done it could understand. Wrestling doesn't have a replay system and it really wouldn't help even if it did, because the judgment aspect of wrestling is somewhat unique compared to most other sports. The definitions of a variety of situations simply cannot be put down in black and white like they can on other sports. The nature of the judgment lends itself to situations where one person sees something one way and another person sees it completely opposite.
I stand by my statement which is that this forum should not be the place to come and bag on officials for calls they make which are in most cases completely in line with and according the rules set forth. As far as a checks and balance system is concerned, it's actually pretty simple, if an official doesn't measure up the standards expected of them, then the blame for having him at a tournament falls #1 On the coaches whom through their actions have either run off the good ones from the kids level into high school where they don't have to deal with this, or #2 The person in charge of getting and hiring the officials for their tournament. Your checks and balances come from your active feedback to tournament directors saying "Could you please try to get (insert name here) to come work this tournament"
The one last thing I will tell you is that kids tournament directors have a heck of a time finding well qualified officials to do kids work anymore. Ask yourself why this might be the case? I'll give you a hint: many officials don't want to put up with the abuse they take from kids level coaches, have their name dragged through the mud on this website, or have videos of them showing up on Youtube. Be thankful the group of officials who still do come out week after week to do this, because the $125-$150 most kids officials get paid for a weekend can't really make up for that, those still out there do it for the love of the sport just like the coaches, competitors, and fans.
... End Novel
