Kansas Wrestling Forums General Discussion High School Wrestlers For Christ Regionals

well were not asking everyone to participate

Coercive - |kōˈərsiv|
adjective
relating to or using force or threats.

Explain how you find that students are using force or threats? I just want your opinion that is all.

So since you guys can pray in a large group in the middle of the mats, would it be acceptable for me to wear a black cloak, chant in latin, and play with my ouija board right next to you guys? Or would that be frowned upon?

Coerce-
1. to compel by force, intimidation, or authority, especially without regard for individual desire or volition: They coerced him into signing the document.

2.to bring about through the use of force or other forms of compulsion; exact: to coerce obedience.

3.to dominate or control, especially by exploiting fear, anxiety, etc.: The state is based on successfully coercing the individual

sorry but I thought it objective to put all the definitions on the post

Wikipedia (now widely accepted as an accurate reference) estimates there are approximately 38,000 Christian denominations. To quote Wikipedia:

"Between denominations, theologians, and comparative religionists there are considerable disagreements about which groups can be properly called Christian, disagreements arising primarily from doctrinal differences between groups."

Please consider that the views expressed by some of the Christians on this topic are NOT representative of the views held by ALL Christians.

a) its not school sponsored
b) Doug V. just posted KSHAA's approval.

Thank you Lou Ann.

You make a very good point and I respect that the views expressed here do not represent all Christans.

flubber,
thanks but still doesn't answer my question.

Hmmmmmmm all that arguing for nothing i thought we were told it was not supported by Mr. Bowden from Contrarian guess that was some false information.

Are the wrestlers who are doing this not exploiting through fear and or anxiety?

Someone may feel pressured to participate in this because of the beliefs of other people, such as friends, coaches, and parents.

Doing this is wrong and yes it is coercive.

You just have to trust people when they say they were forced or threatened. Because everyone is honest and you can trust everyone. There ya go Quags

"The Court also emphasized in Weisman and Santa Fe that attendance at major school events like graduation or football games should not be considered "voluntary" even if authorities officially designate it as such. Weekly football games and high school graduation are central parts of student life and students should be able to attend these events without fear of religious coercion."

How is a wrestling tournament different than football games?

"Moreover, in both Santa Fe v. Doe and Lee v. Weisman, the Supreme Court expressed particular concern that students could be coerced, through pressure from their peers and others, into praying during school events such as football games and graduation ceremonies. This danger exists regardless of whether it is a member of the clergy or a student who offers the prayer. "

These are supreme court rulings.

wow, what a topic. funny that some of the critics can't even post there names. i am proud to be catholic, i don't preach to others just try to lead by example. if someone wants to find me at regionals, i will be on the mat praying with all the others before the wrestling starts.

If KSHAA approved this, then they may be setting themselves up for a lawsuit. Slippery slope they may be on.

Flubber,

If a wrestler is going up to someone and saying "hey go to the prayer meeting or else!" Then yes it is Coercive.
If a wrestler says "hey if anyone wants to come pray for the safety of all of our athletes you are more than welcome too!" then in no way shape or form is it coercive.

By the way, the second example I used is exactly what Wrestlers for Christ is doing. I have witnessed it.

Gymmom,
people have copied and pasted from your website you provided evidence that it is constitutional. I hope you are at a regional where the prayer takes place you that you can see how this goes about. Hopefully you won't mind it anymore.

hey maybe we can get Ted Haggard to lead the prayer via a video feed.

All of you who are opposed to teenagers leading and expressing ther faith should be ashamed you should applaud these young men for what they have done not bash them it is truly sad how society treats young men who are only trying to express there feelings of prayer, but not upon others. Should be ashamed comign from Jack Vielhauer.

KSHAA isn't sponsoring it, just giving approval. I'm pretty sure they would check their rights before approving it.

You must of forgotten the anxious part Quags.

If a wrestler were to choose not to go but felt compelled too because the religious views of your friends, family, or coaches makes that wrestler feel left out or anxious then it is coercive.

And yes I would accept a prayer by Mr. Haggard.