Kansas Wrestling Forums General Discussion High School stopping a match when a pin might occur

I just got back from the JC tourney. During one of the finals a match was stopped THREE times for potentially dangerous. I understand protecting the defensive guy's shoulder - but it sure seemed like a rip-off to the other guy. Like he needed a 'kinder' and 'gentler' way of turning his opponent to his back. The offensive wrestler lost a close and hard match. But, if he would have been given at least two points for every time they stopped it - he would have won easy. The defensive guy was about to get turned to his back and the ref would stop it and award no points. It is like the offensive guy couldn't use an arm bar or chicken wing effectively due to the flexibility of his opponent and the ref's wanting to protect the defensive wrestler's shoulder.

Any thoughts on this? Could it have been ref'd differently? That was the thought of many in the stands. Again, it sure seemed like a rip-off to the offensive kid. Bummer for him but he (Livengood) sure was a good sport about it.

Rule 3-1-10 (pg. 14)
The referee shall stop potentially dangerous holds, if possible, before they reach the dangerous state.

Rule 5-21 Potentially Dangerous Holds (pg. 26)
Potentially dangerous holds include any hold which may cause injury when used legally. Holds become potentially dangerous when a body part is forced to the limit of normal range of movement. The wrestler applying such a hold shall be cautioned against forcing it into an illegal position. If the offensive wrestler causes a potentially dangerous hold to become illegal, the wrestler shall be penalized according to the Penalty Chart.

Thanks Richard. So, i'm still struggling. It seems like Livengood gets screwed and that there is no way around it. So, he has to find a 'kinder' and 'gentler' way to pin\turn kids?

"Urrrr . . . Sorry kid. Forget those arm bar and chicken wing series that we taught you. There are a waste of time. The refs will just stop the match whenever you are about to turn them..."

Hopefully i just witnessed a one-time freak kind of thing that happened due to the defensive kid's incredible flexibility.

Again, i understand we have to protect kids but it seems like a 'fairer' way would be to compensate the offensive wrestler with some points of some sort (ala, the cry baby rule?).

Of we could just let the kids arm get ripped of instead in the name of sport. Im fairly sure you'd be singing a different tune if it was your boy on the other end of that arm bar/chicken wing.

I've witnessed dislocated shoulders and several other injuries as a result of these types of moves. I do tend to be a little more lenient at the high school level about this BUT if you are continually putting that arm into a potentially dangerous situation, then it is your reponsibility to make sure it does not go illegal. There are more moves on top than just arm bars and chicken wings, if you can't turn either of these without doing it dangerously ( because a good majority of wrestlers somehow manage to do it ) then you should probably relearn the move, or try something else.

Yeah Abilene knows all about those arm bar/chicken wings that cause injuries to other wrestlers.

Explain please, I'm curious on this one as a "rival" from Chapman. Abilene from what I've seen is just hard nosed in your face pounding great wrestling. They are one of those teams that does well each year because they are aggressive and know how to wrestle at the next level before they get to that level, which also explains why they send many wrestlers on to college to wrestle like other programs in the state do with their talented crop year in and out.

Well Aaron I can tell you that the bar arm and chicken wing are two moves that we hardly ever practiced when I was wrestling for Abilene, and I personally very rarely ever used them.

But I do believe I have an idea of two wrestlers in particular that the previous comment was made about. And yes he was quite vicious with it, when he was in high school. But that is really no reason to take cheap popshots at a program because its not indicative of what the whole team does.

Nigel, I'm not seeing any popshots (cheap or insintuated) in any of Aaron's statements. What he said actually is very positive towards Abilene. Can you clarify, cause I'm obviously missing something here.

man...thats a sour deal.

I wasn't speaking about Aaron's comments.

I remember in the consolation quarterfinals at 6a state last year Mike Hammer got hosed when late in the third period he put his opponent on his back. The opponent started holloring for his shoulder. The ref stopped it and then the wrestler came back for the victory, and went on to wrestle twice more and placing.

Gus,

While it would seem the tatic you described is unsportsmanlike and unethical it is completly within the rules to do. If a wrestler or a coach calls for an injury timeout, in most cases it must be given. In these situaitons points are usually added in addition to any already scored. So if that wrestler did crybaby out when he was turning to his back it would have resulted in 2,3, or 4 points being awarded based on when the timeout occured.

Yes it may not seem fair, but then again maybe he really was hurt.

I understand the rule completely and understand the fact that a ref must stop it if a wrestler yells in agonizing pain. The 4th point was added. It was just one of those things where a wrestler took advantage of a rule. It didnt affect me one way or another just an observance

I understand where you are coming from. I've had to make that call myself many times and it disgusts me quite frankly.

In response to stopping matches.....I believe the official has to be careful about dangerous holds...BUT....last year at state....way to many times....I saw wrestlers "yell in agony" when it appeared likely they were about to get into situations where they might and probably would have been pinned. I saw wrestlers roll around on the mat once they were released in total pain yet somehow muster up the strength to go on--how noble. What was disturbing was that later, they could be seen jogging, playing around ont he mats, engaged in horseplay, with not even a grimmace or a limp. I hope I don't see that this year. Any wrestler who does that has earned himself a shallow, meaningless victory.

I agree. Well said.