You know it is funny, I just quit coaching two years ago after about 25 years and I guess the difference in you and me is I've seen a few more than you have. If you go up to the top I listed Boyle in the group that I picked, I am just not narrow minded enough to think that one or the other of them invented the weight. Just because you didn't see them don't mean they couldn't do it. It really wasn't that long ago when you figure the sport has been going for about 2000 years or so. I tend not to live in one era just because it is the one that I currently reside in. There's been a lot of good ones in this state and they qualify by what they did on the mat not by whether or not you personally saw them do it. Hey you didn't get a chance to see those guys, thats your loss. I did, and I know what I saw. I've seen a few of them in my time. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, if mine doesn't agree with yours then ..... well you know what you can do with that don't you.