Refs looking to take away pts are definitely from KS. Nigel, that's not an illegal hold but the KS ref in you wants to take it away. More times than not a spark of offense, a spark so desparetly needed to keep this sport from being so dull, gets squished out by a showy ref who calls the toes just out of bounds. The proud ref sweeps both arms out of bounds and then both hands point up---neutral position, again. I see it all the time. Calling two for a takedown with the toes just in bounds must not be as fun for refs. Frankly, I've been a ref and a lot of time you don't have a vantage point to see if supporting points are in bounds or not. Things happen quickly..I suggest that to KS refs, if there's a doubt, and to be honest there often is, then award the offensive guy the points. It is appalling how often the guy trying to get out of bounds gets rewarded.