Kansas Wrestling Forums General Discussion College Moderator Judgement

Original Quote: I believe Coach Stovall to be a coach of outstanding character and high moral value. While I have no knowledge of your situation, I personally believe the philosophy of Coach Stovall and Newman University is to work with their students to overcome any and all obstacles in their personal and academic lives.

From my observations of Coach Stovall and my knowledge of Newman University, I find your statement(s) difficult to fathom.

I am closing this topic, and I hope you will take the high road and delete this thread."

I read the above post and the thread it is in response to. I must say both statements are quite shocking. I think it is wrong for you Mr. Salyer to close the thread. If the original post was in fact true, it is something that potential recruits should take into account. I do not know if it is true or not. I have seen both Newman coaches and wrestlers post on here before. It is up to them (or anyone including you)to respond, not the moderator to shut down the thread. I specifically recall a very negative and very general post about Fort Hays Program from a guest. The same response was not taken with that thread. This was a very specific allegation from a registered user. In this case the kid obviously has a health crisis in the family, and you post the above response! Maybe "King James" could not hack the college scene or maybe he left the program for the exact reason he claims. Maybe Coach Stovall didn't like the kid, who knows. I think you should be able to post your opinion, but closing the thread is wrong. I wish "King James" and his family the best of luck, and I wish the Newman program and coach Stovall the best of luck as well.
Ike Wennihan

Moderator Judgement single choice
	Moderator Judgement
Votes accepted starting: 12/31/69 07:00 PM You must vote before you can view the results of this poll.

I did not intend this to be a poll, I haven't posted a thread before.

The moderator has the reponsibility to govern this Forum any way he feels is necessary. For those of you who think this is an infringement on your freedom of speech, go play on an unmoderated site. Also, free speech isn't free, it comes with responsibility. We are responsible not only for what we say, but also responsible for any resulting actions from what we have said.

We also have the right to hear things and make our own judgements. The things said were not things that kids could not see or read.

When I was at Hays this kid got mad and his dad told the coaches that there would never be another recruit out of wichita. I think as you can see people can make up their own minds. It's just opionion

I've almost posted on this like three times, so here it goes. I for one am all about not moderating topics without bad language and attacks that go farther than a joke. I think that this topic, although not too harmful, is a bit unfair. I don't think Stovall or anyone from Newman will post on this, so we'll never hear their side of the argument. The fact that he posted this topic in order to make people not go to Newman kind of makes it an attack on his part, making it unacceptable. His sole purpose was to hurt Newman, and since it was a blatant as it was, it's a bit wrong.

Bill of Rights
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.


Slander:
Oral communication of false statements injurious to a person's reputation.
A false and malicious statement or report about someone.

Libel:
A false publication, as in writing, print, signs, or pictures, that damages a person's reputation.
The act of presenting such material to the public.

There are laws against both slander and libel.

Well, James messed up the last two and got the first one right.

Jimmy.....it's not early but still to early to read the constitution at this time.

Dear Ike:

There are statements which have been made regarding the issue raised which are incorrect.

Due to student privacy concerns, Coach Stovall and Newman University are not in a position to comment on the matter.

I will assure you, Newman University and Coach Stovall will make every effort to accomodate a students reasonable request, to include, if necessary, stopping at a hospital for a student to visit their ill parent.

If you will recall, I deleted the derogatory comments regarding Fort Hays State University.

I believe my responsibility as a moderator is to promote in a positive manner Kansas wrestling, and in order to do so, from time to time find it necessary to delete attacking, speculative, and false statements.

What this forum is not is a bulletin board service which certain new posters have come to believe it to be.

If you really want to comment on it, I'm sure it's still up somewhere. He posted it everywhere.

To be honest billy_mcjackson_ripjc I am a little surprised by the maturity of this post. I agree with you here very much so and your comments give me more respect for you. A serious question though is how does one determine what is kidding and what is serious?

Regarding the 1st amendment and libel or slander comments. Jim is correct in those areas but speech is limited to some extent as determined in numerous situations by the Supreme Court. I also believe that the moderators on these boards have a right to determine what is, and is not appropriate for the boards they moderate. That is not to say that mistakes aren’t made, Lord knows I have made them myself. Even then though, there are guidelines and rules that each person has to agree to when signing up to use the message boards. Individuals agree to those rules, violating them is agreement that certain posts, or posters for that matter, may be removed from the forums.

I usually get contentious about the idea of censoring public forums ....... the fact is that we usually give more power and credibility to thoughts, ideas, statements and other forms of expression we ban or label as taboo ....... such extreme measures also lend the subject an aura of intrigue which stimulates the curiousity of most ...... I am always leery of accusations aimed at teachers and coaches and Coach Stovall is certainly a man of character who has earned the respect of our Kansas wrestling community ....... that said, we do have a policy statement for our forum which can and has been used to "moderate" forum content ....... I suggest everyone read it (it's only a paragraph for those who don't like lengthy reading selections) ....... basically it says that our purpose is to promote Kansas wrestling by exchanging thoughts, ideas, information, etc. and that the forum has only two rules ....... (1) remember the forum is also a family forum and (B) "no cheap shots" will be tolerated ...... the statement goes on to say that if you are going to make a statement critical of a person, group or idea, you have to stand behind that by giving your name and email address ...... fair enough ...... I wouldn't participate in a forum that did not allow criticism ....... if that were the case, we'd have to dump today's discussion of President Bush which, though provocative, causes members to think, ask questions, and articulate their opinions ....... all good things in my book ....... so the question for me is whether or not the author of the disputed post has fulfilled the requirements expressed in the forum policy statement to stand behind his criticism of Coach Stovall ...... or is it just a cheapshot ....... generally speaking, hitting someone who cannot hit back is considered a cheapshot ....... this certainly seems to be a matter that would be better resolved in a face-to-face sitdown between the parties involved ....... lastly, I participate on the forum because it is fun, informative and connects different parts of our wrestling community ....... and with all due respect to Mr. Salyer, I believe the body of USAWKS forum members decides what this forum is or is not ....... fact is, it serves a different purpose for different members, but a general purpose for us all ......

Wrong! The owners of the forum decide what this forum is or is not! The "body" has NO say in it!

Talk Forum Policy Statement

After review of the policy statement I must disagree with superiorsteve.

Many of the topics and posts on the talk forums DO NOT "promote Kansas wrestling".

I have received complaints from USA Wrestling Kansas member parents, coaches, and fellow board member(s) regarding the message boards, and there abuse.

I have received a request from a long time member of the forum, who has never posted, to recommend closing the boards as they no longer serve the original purpose and are constantly abused.

My response to the request was I would present their request at the next Board meeting provided I received a signed statement, not an e-mail with the signature of a pseudonym.

If it is a choice between moderating the boards or closing them....well that should be an obvious choice. These boards promote wrestling in Kansas even when posts seem negative. The interpretation of comments is in the mind of the beholder. If a post is deemed to be slander or libel by all means , nix it. Differing opinions are the spice of a forum. As for Mr. Salyer, I wouldnt know the man if I saw him, but I am constantly amazed by the type and quantity of useful information he puts on here, and his comments always seem rational and well grounded. Close the boards? this could only be suggested by someone who is unable to come up with the proper string of words to express his opinion. Everyone knows what opinions resemble, we all have one , and they all stink.

I know that I may not fund anything or be a big part of the wrestling community at this time. I do know that in 5 months things will have changed. These forums are supposed to be to promote wrestling. Most of the people on here are not familar with FS/GR so they don't have any hight school or college wrestling to debate. Many coaches and kids have got on here to praise the preformance of others. There is no wrestling so there is no wrestling talk. I think that it could be funny the Chris and Curtis do wrestle. I have talked to both of them in a side conversaton on here and both have been more adult like. Their conflict that turned into fun may bring some people together cause it is an excuse for people to go see some wrestling. Others might challenge each other out of fun. The tag team thing turned into some good out of a joke. I understand that some of us get carried away with what we say, but really it is all in fun. I think I had even seen an old post where I got mad that Lancer M or somebody was dogging on 6A. Me not knowing he wrestled in 6A got upset. If there is cursing or people saying things that will upset people on purpose and not of sarcasim than it should be handled. I don't know of anyone on here who doesn't love wrestling. I have found out some stuff for my little cousin on here. I am thank those who have helped me. I know I am rambling but I just am kind of upset that this has been blown up so big out of nothing.

Wow! This post generated a lot of response. It seems like it was an issue that needed to come to a head. Mr. Salyer I appreciate all you and the rest of the members have given to Kansas Wrestling. Without the support of the Kansas Wrestling community I would not be who I am today. My point was that information about programs needs to be exchanged on here. I think we would all like to see more positive information and examples, rather than negative, about our college programs. The fact is, a high school kid knows little about a college coach or program other than the picture the coaches have painted for him or her. I also think the situation would probably have been better handled off of the forum. I don't know where the policy is on this forum, but I am unable to find it. Please direct me to it. I would agree this was a "cheap shot" and against the rules of the forum, if that is the policy. So basically my arguement is moot. I wasn't saying you don't have the right to remove anyones posts, only that I didn't think that folks should be restricted from responding. Newman wrestlers are not bound by the rules that the coach is, and they are able to respond. As far as the Hays post goes, I know that it was on there for quite some time before it was removed. I was also unaware it was removed.
Please do not consider closing the forum. The forum is a valuable source of results, personal opinion, and allows the Kansas wrestling community to stay in tune with each other. I am somewhat of a gypsy, and it allows me to keep abreast without actually being in Kansas. I don't think the forum should be all pats on the back though either. Opinions aren't crap. Speaking your mind is a admirable trait in my book. This debate and others should continue. This was posted on the college forum, and I haven't seen the trash talking or whatever is going on in the high school forum. So I don’t know what some of the responses are refering to. Remember many of the posters are juvenilles and they do act like that from time to time. Brush it off, and go on.
I still am not sure how the first amendment was brought into this topic!? They were early morning posts so they are forgiven. Although, Coach Stovall may have a case for slander if he wished to pursue it. I think if the man is a man of character as I would suspect, he will brush it off.
Ike Wennihan
iwennihan@yahoo.com

I think, hope Swayz is talking about the tag team concept. I never thought that post was inappropriate, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure which posts are and are not appropriate. Neither does it take one to figure out who is having fun and who is not. When people tend to get upset and make comments about people they don't know then it is obvious that might be construed as an inappropriate post. I also agree with the comments regarding moderating of the boards. I know that Richard has done a good job on this board and I try to watch closely the Kids board. Truth is that there seems to be more that goes on on the High School board and I don't know what if anything is being done there.

It's a board for high school wrestling and it's going to draw a lot of high schoolers to it because of that fact. You can call the comments we make juvenille, or whatever else you want to call it, but we're all just having fun with each other. Without these forums, I wouldn't have several close friends that I now have. These forums make Kansas Wrestling a lot friendlier, because of the people your able to talk to. Even if there is a lot of trash talk (i.e. me and Chris) we're just having fun with it. And if the people that the talk is directed to isn't offended, why should other people. I can understand if it's something really inappropriate, but we usually keep it really clean. And if things get a little out of hand, the moderators have the power to delete posts. If they don't do anything when something is said, the same things are going to continue being said because there was nothing done about it originally. I guess my point is, this forum does a lot for the wrestling community. If it does nothing else, it at least helps form friendships. And the friendships made in life are a lot more important than wrestling.

It seems the members of this forum have answered the accusation aimed at Coach Stovall in the post that gave impetus to this discussion ........ a good case, I should think, in support of the free exchange of ideas and opinions on the forum ...... those of us who know Coach Stovall to be a man of integrity have stepped forward and said so ........ in my opinion, the resolution of an issue by airing it out is preferable to censorship which only fuels suspicion and unfounded conjecture ...... in so doing, members of the USAWKS forum have proven that they do "have a say" in what goes on in the forum ....... and when confronting a serious issue, they can respond with thoughtfulness and sincerity ..... Good game to all and happy Independence Day!