Kansas Wrestling
Posted By: nix mat side - 02/23/08 09:16 PM
should there only be lets say 2 coaches and maybe 1 parent mat side? In ellsworth today there must have been half the team, mother , father ,aunts list can go on and on. And is it just me or is there a lot of rude people lately at these events? maybe its me whining because i was sick today.
Posted By: bockman Re: mat side - 02/23/08 09:19 PM
hey i kinda saw the same stuff. I to was sick today. must be the sickness.
Posted By: bockman Re: mat side - 02/23/08 09:20 PM
I do think that Mulvane for the most part was well ran. We were done by 1:00 but my son only got 2 matches.
Posted By: StudentOfTheGame Re: mat side - 02/23/08 09:34 PM
the tournament that i thought was the best ran on matside was claycenter they anounced almost ever 10 minins that you needed to get to your seat or kneel down and they even kicked a couple coaches out for bein rude so gratz to the claycenter staff great tournament
Posted By: nix Re: mat side - 02/23/08 09:51 PM
hutchison's tournament was the best at this, they had barrier's up and if you did not have a coaches pass you was not getting mat side.
Posted By: dsgolden Re: mat side - 02/23/08 10:03 PM
the ellsworth club didnt weigh there own kids there where some kids in weight class that should have been
If everybody weight in doesnt that include the host club.
Posted By: nix Re: mat side - 02/23/08 10:10 PM
 Originally Posted By: dsgolden
the ellsworth club didnt weigh there own kids there where some kids in weight class that should have been
If everybody weight in doesnt that include the host club.


I seen this also, there was a 37 6 and under and the ellsworth kid had to be 43 or larger i could be wrong, but after the match there was a 10 minute meeting at mat 1 about this.
Posted By: StudentOfTheGame Re: mat side - 02/23/08 10:15 PM
so i take it ellsworth wasnt the best torny ever
Posted By: loki Re: mat side - 02/23/08 10:22 PM
it was my kids match
Posted By: nix Re: mat side - 02/23/08 10:36 PM
what did the kid weigh i see they took the kid away what happened.
Posted By: loki Re: mat side - 02/23/08 10:52 PM
The kid showed up to wrestle and we challenged his weight. He was 6 inches taller and way bigger than our kid. Ellsworth coach said its ok cause he i "autistic" We asked what that had to do with anything. We challeged his weight and the refs weighed him it was 6 and under 37 class, he weighed 47 pounds. That is 4 weight classes!. I went to the head table and the lady got mad at me for challenging it. I talked to the tourney Director and he said " it is our tournament and we don't have to weigh our kids". I asked if any ellsworth kids had weighed in and he said last night they did. I said that I had asked two ellsworth kids and they said they hadn't weighed in at all. Then the Director said " well we weighed them in earlier in the week!. I said they had to be weighed in the same as ours! he said no they didn't because it was their tourney. He said they didn't weigh any of their kids. He then said it was common that nobody ever weighed their own kids in at their own tourney. He then named a few towns and I knew he was wrong because I personally know these towns and their coaches... I then went to the head ref... he said there wasn't really anything he could do about it. The rest of the day several coaches asked me what happened and I told them. Later another Ellsworth coach came up to me and put his hands on me. He shoved me 3 times... I lost my temper and yelled back.. And to anyone there that overheard us i want to personally say i am sorry for this... It is not in my nature to do that ... but after he shoved me.... Later he said that they just had to much going on to weigh their kids on friday or saturday so he weighed them all on thursday. he said the problem at 37 pounds as an accident and he was entered at the wrong weight class. They ended up giving the kid a 4th place medal. The guy the shoved me said he was sorry and appologized for ever touching me... He said that they had been doing it this way for years... I lost my temper and was wrong for this but i still disagree with what they did... My kid had to run this morning because he was 1/2 pounds over and we made him run each night all week to make weight.. This upsets me because he also was on weight thursday... but didn't have the opportunity to use that weight like ellsworth did... I tried to use the chain of command... I tried to resolve it by talking to the ref and tourney directors and then I got shoved for talking to other coaches about it... I have to give him credit for saying sorry for shoving me...but it was a bad scene.
Posted By: usawks1 Re: mat side - 02/23/08 11:09 PM
I've already posted on another thread! Remember to keep your "passions" under control in your postings!!
Posted By: loki Re: mat side - 02/23/08 11:11 PM
in all fairness i am a guy... i was my wife that first challenged it matside...she is the one that protested the difference in size, then i took over. they kept saying "we already settled this", I said I am the head coach and it is not settled to my liking...
they kept blowing me off... I believe the guy that shoved me was named Jeff, He was a big stocky guy. Again I want to say he did appollogize later!
Posted By: nix Re: mat side - 02/23/08 11:50 PM
WHY COME BLIND PEOPLE DON'T PARACHUTE? BECAUSE IT SCARES THE CRAP OUT OF THE SEEING EYE DOGS. JUST THOUGHT I WOULD BRING SOME HUMOR TO THIS POST. I AM SURE ONCE THE DAY IS OVER, EVERY ONE ENVOLVED WILL LOOK AT THIS AS A LEARNING EXPERINCE.
Posted By: southkscatfan Re: mat side - 02/23/08 11:54 PM
I cannot speak for others but at Mulvane we made all our kids weigh in. Anybody that was there friday night can attest to it as we made them stand in line with everybody else.
Posted By: nix Re: mat side - 02/24/08 12:08 AM
same for scott city tournament our kids will have to weigh in like every one else no exeptions. whats fair is fair
Posted By: John Johnson Re: mat side - 02/24/08 02:36 AM
If your kid lost to the kid at the end of the year he still would not be autistic. The kid a least tried. Having 3 kids and a grandson that was one of my greatest fears. I DEEPLY ADMIRE THESE PARENTS who are getting their kids involved inspite of the issue. You should just feel luckly you are not in the same position. THINK ABOUT IT. You are mad because things were not fair. The parents of this kid, when they what your kid and all the others, are reminded everyday that life is not fair. AT 6 AND UNDER it is about learning, participation and having fun. If he needed an advantage SO WHAT. AND, you will figure out in a few years, that the team running the tournament sets the rules, maybe not fair. But whoever promised life was fair. The parents of the kid your son was to wrestle have figured that out at least 6 years ago. Tomorrow is Sunday, a good time to think about that.
Posted By: loki Re: mat side - 02/24/08 02:43 AM
i would have been happy to let my kid wrestle him, if they had asked.... that was not the point!!! The guy claiming to be the tourney director told me to my face that NONE of their kids weighed in.... none of them....they put them where they thought they should be... Again i want to say that the match that set this off was 37 lbs... the kid weighed 47 lbs. that is 4 weight classes heavy... 25% more than what my kid weighed.. what if he landed on my kid or hurt my kid because of the weight difference... it is also NOT my kids fault... and ultimately we rules for a reason... play by them or don't play.
Posted By: southkscatfan Re: mat side - 02/24/08 02:44 AM
I totally agree it's about learning and participating at that age. But then why not just have the Autistic kid wrestle his weight and compete and be involved? It rarely the circumstances in a situation that get it heated it's almost always the way the situation is presented and handled. Honestly they probably had no idea the kid was even autistic until they were told about it anyway. So that in thier mind at the time of the dispute( Not even knowing he was autistic) was probably irrelevant.

Also as a side not my sister in law works with autistic kids at heartspring in Wichita and usually they hate being touched and go crazy like their being smothered.So why then would you decide to expose a kid like that to wrestling? Just some thoughts
Posted By: John Johnson Re: mat side - 02/24/08 03:14 AM
My wife works with autistic kids and she says there are all type of kids like this. All are different. Mainstreaming at an early age may make a huge difference. Remember I understand a mother's desire to protect her son. But, you made a 6 year old run. Yea, I had my 12 year old run last night for Liberty, but 12 and 6. Come on. And, my wife says try working with as a para for a few weeks with autistic kids. Really, its all about the game of life, and if my kid loses in a tournament that isn't a qualifier, to a kids much worse off than mine, SO WHAT. I am sorry if I offended anyone, but this really gets to me. I think sports are important not so much for the winning (yea my kid enjoys it) but for the other benefits. And, you made the post, before you did, did you think about if the kid's dad read your post. AND, remember, IT WAS THEIR TOURNAMENT. And, my kid has lost where tournaments have let their kids off on weighing in. Many do it, few will admit it. SO WHAT, they are not qualifiers. Sorry again.
Posted By: loki Re: mat side - 02/24/08 03:18 AM
fine i will grant you anything that you are saying john....are you now going to defend their coach putting his hands on me 3 times!!!
Posted By: Bones1768 Re: mat side - 02/24/08 03:39 AM
I guess I'm new to this. But I thought the major point of making weight was having fairness. Is this a common occurance that the host team does not have to make their own team make weight. When our team hosted a tournament, we all HAD to make weight. To my kid it doesn't matter if it is a qualifier or not, it matters to him.

And for the coach from ellsworth who shoved loki. He should be suspended.
Posted By: nix Re: mat side - 02/24/08 03:45 AM
 Originally Posted By: John Johnson
My wife works with autistic kids and she says there are all type of kids like this. All are different. Mainstreaming at an early age may make a huge difference. Remember I understand a mother's desire to protect her son. But, you made a 6 year old run. Yea, I had my 12 year old run last night for Liberty, but 12 and 6. Come on. And, my wife says try working with as a para for a few weeks with autistic kids. Really, its all about the game of life, and if my kid loses in a tournament that isn't a qualifier, to a kids much worse off than mine, SO WHAT. I am sorry if I offended anyone, but this really gets to me. I think sports are important not so much for the winning (yea my kid enjoys it) but for the other benefits. And, you made the post, before you did, did you think about if the kid's dad read your post. AND, remember, IT WAS THEIR TOURNAMENT. And, my kid has lost where tournaments have let their kids off on weighing in. Many do it, few will admit it. SO WHAT, they are not qualifiers. Sorry again.


i feel for the autistic kid and his parents and admire them for trying new things great to hear. but what you saying if its not a state qualifier throw out all rules lets go back to gladiator days then. we have rules at these tournament anyway i thought we did
Posted By: loki Re: mat side - 02/24/08 03:51 AM
i'm feeling like John Johnson is vilifying me because we played by the rules!.
I signed my kid up a week in advance for the tourney and the guys weighing him in that morning would not let him wrestle because he was 1/2 lb over.. he went to the bathroom, then ran a bit and made weight... why did we go through all of this if they just put their kids anywhere they wanted... And as i said before the guy that put his hands on me did come up and say sorry after he admitted that they didn't follow the rules that everyone else was expected to follow....but that doesn't change the facts. Also John johnson is saying that many other town and coaches do the same thing. I am offended by that! I believe that many, many towns follow the rules... a few bad example should not be dismissed as "well everyone else does it" what does that say about us as a state organization.
Posted By: Pelland Re: mat side - 02/24/08 01:50 PM
 Originally Posted By: loki
what does that say about us as a state organization.


It says nothing about us as a whole.
Posted By: nix Re: mat side - 02/24/08 02:39 PM
 Originally Posted By: Pelland
 Originally Posted By: loki
what does that say about us as a state organization.


It says nothing about us as a whole.


Wrong if nothing is done about this situation, then it says a whole lot about them as a whole.
Posted By: Pelland Re: mat side - 02/24/08 02:48 PM
 Originally Posted By: nix
 Originally Posted By: Pelland
 Originally Posted By: loki
what does that say about us as a state organization.


It says nothing about us as a whole.


Wrong if nothing is done about this situation, then it says a whole lot about them as a whole.


The organization hasn't had a chance to do anything yet. What could they do though?
Posted By: Packerholic4 Re: mat side - 02/24/08 04:06 PM
My son at 6u 40lbs. had an Ellsworth wrestler that stood a full head taller. My son barely came to his shoulders. He was rather skinny though. Kids come in all different sizes and shapes. In my own mind I've questioned some kids my older sons have wrestled. But, you see the kids later on at the same weight or up one weight. We attended a tournament last week. This wrestler looked more like an 8U 61lber not an 8U 55lber.
Posted By: bockman Re: mat side - 02/25/08 12:27 AM
I still like the way Ark City ran their tournament. If the parents didnt get their butts in the stands they stopped it until they got into the stands. I sure hope that Ottawa takes care of that situtation this year. The kids need the mats on the sides and sidelines to get warm. Those mats are not for those lazy parents and coaches to sit their big butts on and take up space.
Posted By: mmeditz Re: mat side - 02/25/08 09:04 PM
We weighed ours in for our tournament, never heard it was an option.
My 23 yr old cousin is autistic and he competed many yrs and still does some in Special Olympics. I don't see the special needs as the young mans challange, I would only be concerned for the 10#s of difference as a safety issue with an inexperienced pair.
Posted By: MOMX2WRESTLERS Re: mat side - 02/25/08 10:51 PM
I guess, and I apologize for stepping on toes here, but my son also wrestles 6 and under 49 or 52. I was really bothered that a 6 and under 37 lb kid was put in at 37lbs and then had to run every night for a week to make weight(then being a 1/2 lb over). If my son gets close we bump him up, he has fluctuated all year between 49 and 52. I am sure that this isn't the point of this post, but I thought it should at least be mentioned.(I guess it was mentioned early in post).
Posted By: USAWMom Re: mat side - 02/26/08 12:09 AM
To quote Loki, "My kid had to run this morning because he was 1/2 pounds over and we made him run each night all week to make weight.. "

To quote Nix, "But, you made a 6 year old run."

Thanks MomX2, I had the same reaction when I originally read the post, but you actually mentioned it.

It sounds like quite the challenge for that particular wrestler, one that I doubt a six-year-old (or younger?) is capable of comprehending. At least from the description, they went about things the proper way - without extreme measures. I have no doubt that they never put their wrestler's health in jeopardy, but it doesn't sound like the most sound decision ever made in their wrestler's interest.

Why not allow him to wrestle at a more natural weight - 40lbs? You have to allow for fluctuations in any wrestler's weight due to growth and muscle mass, but especially at such a young age.
Posted By: JDK Re: mat side - 02/26/08 12:11 AM
Hey I just want to tell you as a father be careful about getting upset at mat side I also have been guilty of this but I will tell you they are not doing their kids any favors by cheating the weight classes I have seen this for years. Also your child see's this then when they do lose they think someone is always cheating them. I am guilty of this and now my son is always questioning the ref. So my advice is chalk it up to experience and dont go back to there tournaments any more that is what we do we have several tournaments on our list we dont go to just for this reason. I have seen tournaments that cheat the weight or put their kids in a bye all the way out to the finals. Sad but that is the world we live I just say dont support them anymore.
Posted By: nix Re: mat side - 02/26/08 12:43 AM
guess i missed where nix quoted making a six year old run but still looking could you point it out thanks...
Posted By: loki Re: mat side - 02/26/08 01:32 AM
Ok sincne i started this let me clarify..
First of all some people have removed their posts so all of you commenting now do not have the whole story!!!
When I said It was my 37 lb kid I was speaking as "he is a kid on my team" I am his coach. Second the kid that had to run was my own son and not a 37 lb kid.... Two different kids My son ran all week not to lose wait but to maintain weight and to stay in shape. He works out like all of my advanced kids.... So for all of you who came into this late... the point was they didn't weigh any of their kids on saturday morning... Like all of the rest of us did... and The coach put his hands on me 3 times...
Posted By: loki Re: mat side - 02/26/08 01:42 AM
last comment i have on this topic is that
i was mostly concerned about my kid the 37lb'er. I was concerned about the other kid wrestling 4 weight classes lighter than he weighed. In High school that would be a 200 lb kid wrestling a 150 lb kid. I am not new to this either... I have been a part of wrestling since the early 70's and have wrestled all my life. I have coached in the Marine Corps, High School and Jr High.. I gave it all up to spend time with my son... Anyone that knows me knows That we are not out their to win but for good compitition. I have said many times I would rather lose a match then get a kid hurt.. That is why we challenged them in the beginning.. They didn't weigh any of their kids and when I challenged them they said its our tournament we can do it this way... That is like saying since its my tourney all my kids get a 5 point head start... Fair is fair.. That is why I love wrestling, it is supposed to be equal.. the only variable is supposed to be the ability of the kids....
Posted By: Bones1768 Re: mat side - 02/26/08 01:43 AM
I think we have missed what this post and another one that I started were all about. How a team cheated alot of other teams. How a team's representative(Coach) shoved another person at this tournament. Isn't this the problem? It wasn't the other teams that came to this tournament, that wanted to have a FAIR wrestling tournament and instead MIGHT have been cheated if they had to compete against a wrestler from Ellsworth.

What is going to happen to them(team) and their representatives?
Posted By: USAWMom Re: mat side - 02/26/08 02:40 AM
 Originally Posted By: loki
... I lost my temper and was wrong for this but i still disagree with what they did... My kid had to run this morning because he was 1/2 pounds over and we made him run each night all week to make weight.. This upsets me because he also was on weight thursday... but didn't have the opportunity to use that weight like ellsworth did...


Thanks for clarifying that this was not "your kid" but one of your wrestlers, but as you can see easily taken out of context. I actually have been following this post, so I absolutley understand the basis of the orig text and agree whole-heartedly that the rules should apply across the board.

I was not attempting to attack anyone, I simply responded and agreed with MomX2wrestler's comments.
Posted By: USAWMom Re: mat side - 02/26/08 02:44 AM
 Originally Posted By: John Johnson
Remember I understand a mother's desire to protect her son. But, you made a 6 year old run. Yea, I had my 12 year old run last night for Liberty, but 12 and 6. Come on.


I apologize, the post from nix was originally a quote from John Johnson.
Posted By: MOMX2WRESTLERS Re: mat side - 02/27/08 09:47 PM
I apologize for implying that you yourself made a 37lb 6 and under run, but that is the way I understood the post to read. My comment was meant to be a general observation of our sport and my hopes that no parent would make a child at 6 and under 37lb run to make weight.
Posted By: mom4 Re: mat side - 02/27/08 11:44 PM
I would also like to make an observation no one probably noticed...but be careful what you put on a forum like this one. Everyone can read it and they will be making judgements, right or wrong, on your character as a person and as a coach. Did you know that all of these topics are searchable on google? Don't believe me, type in Ellsworth +wrestling +tournament +6

These post will always be there. So my warning is to make sure you don't say anything that you wouldn't want posted on a billboard by an interstate. And remember, if you are not careful in your comments, others will misinterpret your meaning.
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