Kansas Wrestling
Posted By: twisted sister Stalling tactics - 03/09/08 09:27 PM
Went to Wichita, everything was great except for the last match of the day. My son (12u 190) was going for first. We expected and a good hard match that was engaging and tuff, the kind of match that you walk away proud of both competitors, for wrestling so hard. We did NOT get that, due to stalling.
The match was a crime! Once the other kid got ahead in points, he was instructed by his coaches and parents to “stay away from him!” He was called on stalling once and only once.
It is a shame that this kids coaches and parents are teaching him to wrestle like that. It is effective but dirty. When it comes to winning, it should be done with full engagement not by stalling when you are ahead.
Posted By: Mike's Mom Re: Stalling tactics - 03/10/08 02:24 PM
 Originally Posted By: twisted sister

It is a shame that this kids coaches and parents are teaching him to wrestle like that.



That isn't wrestling...that's running and so many get away with it.

Mike's Mom
Posted By: PatrickCavanaugh Re: Stalling tactics - 03/10/08 02:36 PM
Sounds more like a ref issue then a coaching issue. I see nothing wrong with teaching a kid defense (not focused on enough) & how to use warnings i.e. false start warnings & stalling warnings. IMO, if your up by several points, your job from that point forward is not to get caught & protect your lead, especially if you are in there with a dangerous opponent. Stalling may have been a big compliment to your wrestler twisted sister. Sorry it didn't end in your wrestlers favor.
Posted By: thunderr Re: Stalling tactics - 03/10/08 03:07 PM
Part of wrestling, did the other wrestler stall to score his points? Every coach teaches his wrestlers how to protect the lead. Same thing happens in b-ball and football, running down the clock when you are ahead in points.
Posted By: matking Re: Stalling tactics - 03/10/08 03:11 PM
Your right..There is a time when a smart wrestler is going to stall. When your ahead of another good wrestler then why not..
Sounds like the kid was just doing what he had to do to get the win.
Posted By: Allie Re: Stalling tactics - 03/10/08 03:21 PM
Twisted Sister... My son has had them literally lay on top of him for what seems like an eternity - of course they throw in some leg holds so that unless he learns how to levitate and flip them over there is no way he can get up. This usually happens when they have scouted him out and realize what could happen. It does sound like a compliment to your son as he must be some pretty tough competition that they are afraid of what he'll do. Unfortunately, it happens and there isn't anything we can do about it... unless he learns to levitate...
Posted By: thunderr Re: Stalling tactics - 03/10/08 03:27 PM
There is something you can do, score the first points in the match. What is wrong with leg holds? If you are ahead in points why would you engage or tie up?
Posted By: PatrickCavanaugh Re: Stalling tactics - 03/10/08 03:37 PM
 Originally Posted By: thunderr
If you are ahead in points why would you engage or tie up?


A. To give your coach a heart attack
B. Because you really like running in practice
C. Your not old enough to gamble legally
D. All of the above
Posted By: thunderr Re: Stalling tactics - 03/10/08 03:42 PM
E. Lose the match.
Posted By: Disney Re: Stalling tactics - 03/10/08 03:50 PM
When a football team is up and goes to a run offense to kill time do you start yelling "stalling"? When a basketball team is up and holds the ball to kill the clock to you yell "dirty"? When a baseball team walks a guy so he can't get a hit do you get upset? A version of stalling is in every sport. No one says a wrestler has to wrestle how you want.
Posted By: VanFam7 Re: Stalling tactics - 03/10/08 03:53 PM
I pick....D.All of the above(including E.)
Posted By: luellen Re: Stalling tactics - 03/10/08 04:50 PM
Stalling is good smart wrestling when my sons are ahead. On the other hand it is bad low down cheating when they are down.
Posted By: Owlbacker Re: Stalling tactics - 03/10/08 05:05 PM
One of my sons found an interesting way to stall about a month ago. He didnt ride low enough and got reversed. He was able to watch the rest of the match more comfortably, laying on his back, fortunately the match was over with one quick slap on the mat and a shrill whistle blow. He did however stall as the match was over long enough to finish crying, and blowing a couple of snot bubbles!
Posted By: GT Williams Re: Stalling tactics - 03/10/08 05:06 PM
Stalling is real simple and not even worthy of discussion. If you don't like it change the rule. That is what happened in basketball.
Posted By: Matthew Treaster Re: Stalling tactics - 03/10/08 05:10 PM
I think its important to know the boy who won the championship match is a first year wrestler, who has a tendency to get himself in bad positions quite quickly.

He was ahead by 8 or 9 points at the end of the match. What he was doing in the end was stalling, and he got called for it once, and probably should have again, but I don't know that another stalling call would have changed the outcome.
Posted By: ravincan Re: Stalling tactics - 03/10/08 05:12 PM
maybe we need a shot clock
Posted By: PatrickCavanaugh Re: Stalling tactics - 03/10/08 05:17 PM
The way this post is heading, maybe we need to move it to the freestyle forum.
Posted By: mbmom Re: Stalling tactics - 03/10/08 05:36 PM
My son had the same problem. The kid stalled the whole 3rd period, but no points were awarded to my son AND the kid was already warned once. Needless to say my son lost by 1 point. Ironically the kid was from Wichita!! UMMMM.
Posted By: luellen Re: Stalling tactics - 03/10/08 05:41 PM
I was not taking sides on this. Just trying to say stalling dont bother me as long as my wrestler is ahead. It does kind of irratate me when my wrestler is behind. My youngest son has had a point taken away for it once. I learned that you have to switch your hips from side to side every so often to aviod the call. I am talking about working from the top position. My son was ahead 3-0 & the kid did not base up so he was laying on him running the clock. He lost a point & It ended up 1-3.
Posted By: PatrickCavanaugh Re: Stalling tactics - 03/10/08 05:48 PM
That's still another win for Mr. Methodical Isaiah.
Posted By: aj75 Re: Stalling tactics - 03/10/08 06:25 PM
Yes this is his first year wrestling and I didn't see this match due to my son wrestling for 3rd/4th, but he was doing just as his coaches were instructing I'm sure he didn't know any better! Also it wouldn't have made a difference if they called another stall on him. A first year wrestler making it to the finals at this tournament is a feat in itself!
FYI- I DO NOT like stall tactics either!
Posted By: luellen Re: Stalling tactics - 03/10/08 06:28 PM
It was not a real pretty win but it did get him first at a national tourny & a trophy & singlet & wristwatch & a shot of confidence. The old man even got a brute adaias shirt.
Posted By: Allie Re: Stalling tactics - 03/10/08 07:11 PM
After reading all of these posts it occurred to me that my boy did engage in stalling himself a couple of times at the beginning of the year. The coach had forbid him to throw a headlock - and he was ahead in points - but there he was on his back for a little while... after he got done stalling and won the match I asked him what, exactly, it was that he was doing leisurely lying there on his back. He informed me that he was "thinking"... I sure wish he'd of done his thinking on top!!
Posted By: PatrickCavanaugh Re: Stalling tactics - 03/10/08 07:41 PM
Allie, I think theres a different term for it when the kid is stalling from his back. I call it survival! \:\)
Posted By: Allie Re: Stalling tactics - 03/10/08 07:46 PM
Hmmm.... he called it Thinking!!
Posted By: Taylorman Re: Stalling tactics - 03/10/08 07:58 PM
Stalling is a part of the sport.....A good coach/wrestler knows how to use this tactic. I love to see a match where both wrestlers are getting after it from the beginning until the end....But that is not always the case......I have seen wrestler who attack, attack and attack and lose. Not because the other wrestler is better than him/her, but because the other wrestler has great defense and a good understanding of position, time, and mat awareness. He/she knows where the edge of the mat is, when the other wrestler takes a bad shot, or when there is short time...And then you have wrestlers who are not particularly great at anything, except for stalling. These are the wrestler who are boring to watch/coach, because they do not try to win, they wrestle not to lose. They will not do well in freestyle or greco, b/c they would be penalized for not engaging. These wrestlers are the ones who lose when they have to go get a take down.......Stalling is a problem w/ folk style in Ks, but the wrestlers who win while stalling usally are good wrestler, but know how to use the tactic. Do not get mad at staller; just know how to attack a staller. If you are in the lead let them stall, they are losing. When a match is officiated correctly, the best wrestler normally wins, now that we are in districts, the bad refs should be done. It is the coaches’ job to teach his/her wrestler to adjust to the ref he/she has. We know there are certain refs who call stalling, and refs who will not call it, ever! A bigger problem is the ref does who does not call stalemate. Keep in mind a period is either 1 min. or 1 1/2 min. I have coached matches and the wrestlers were in the same position for 35 seconds of a one min. match. That is ridiculous!......I am an official too, so I know how critical the decision making process is....So, parents teach your wrestler that they are going to get a bad call in every match, so when it happens they won't be surprise and will continue to work through it.
Posted By: Taylorman Re: Stalling tactics - 03/10/08 08:25 PM
If anyone wants to know, I am Gaylen Taylor. One of the coaches of TOHK.
Posted By: army1 Re: Stalling tactics - 03/10/08 08:44 PM
that explains it all
Posted By: ReDPloyd Re: Stalling tactics - 03/10/08 08:53 PM
Taylorman,

I enjoyed your post. It was very knowledgeable, informative and honest. I enjoy watching aggressive wrestling, but I have also witnessed wrestlers go into a survival mode when the score is tight. Some are just better at it than others, and the ones that aren't, they often lose in a close match.
Posted By: Disney Re: Stalling tactics - 03/10/08 09:49 PM
Gaylen Taylor? What do you know about wrestling!
Posted By: army1 Re: Stalling tactics - 03/10/08 10:37 PM
DPloyd I also enjoy aggressive wrestling,,,,
not dirty wrestling

thanks for servin
Posted By: FWC Re: Stalling tactics - 03/10/08 10:40 PM
If stalling is "a part of the sport", then why do wrestlers get warned and then penalized for it? It seems simple to me that the rules of folk style wrestling are intended to encourage aggressive wrestling. The wrestler should always be trying to improve their position i.e score.
Posted By: army1 Re: Stalling tactics - 03/10/08 10:54 PM
agree FWC
Posted By: Jointboys Re: Stalling tactics - 03/11/08 12:07 AM
I totally agree with stalling if you have the lead why not stall dont put yourself in a bad position and let the wrestler that is down by points work. My son has lost alot of matches against kids who know how to stall really really well, i have no complaints about it theres a reason why they are stalling the kid that is down by points made a mistake somehow some way. My son is a agrressive type wrestler usually doesnt stall but i have seen him on occasions stall and i think to myself what comes around goes around espeacially with the kids who have beat him i know my son wants to get ahead on points and stall out on the ones who have stalled out on him. The thing i have seen more of this year than anything is this CRY BABY rule kinda makes me upset. I swear some coaches have to be telling there wrestlers if they get put on there back to start crying then maybe the ref will award the other kid 4 points and you get a fresh start! I can understand if the kid is actually hurt but it has happened to my 8 yr old son 5 times this year the kid starts ro cry but some how some way when he jumps up off the matt he is no longer crying and then there not even taking a injury time out which i thought was supposed to happen.I just hope the refs in subs,districts and state dont fall foe this cry baby stuff i say if the kid is crying because he is on his back that should be a VERY quick pin
Posted By: Spex Re: Stalling tactics - 03/11/08 01:24 AM
Stalling is just as much a part of wrestling as a take down or a pinning combination. If your in the 3rd period and ahead by 2 why would you try a move that would jeporidize your lead..I'm not saying just lay on your opponent but you can work a good tight waist or arm bar from behind. I've seen too many matches this year lost or go into over time due to wild wrestling by the kid who was ahead in points. I've also seen numerous kids behind in points curl up in the fetal postion so the top wrestler cann't work a move and their coach starts yelling "top man is stalling" My opinion bottom man should be the one working his tail off he's behind not the top man, he's just trying to survive!!!!
Posted By: mmeditz Re: Stalling tactics - 03/11/08 01:34 AM
I agree that "mat savy", as I have heard it called, has a place in the sport of wrestling. You can call it dirty or whatever you like, but I have to say that when it is used and not abused it is smart wrestling. So to each of you that don't like stalling, you are going to tell me that with 10-15 secs left in a match and your kid is up by 1pt you would have them take another shot.
Posted By: WeBelieve Re: Stalling tactics - 03/11/08 01:50 AM
Well, I am the Parent of the 12U 190lb boy the first writer is talking about. I filmed the entire match and have proof not one person, not his parents (because I'm holding the camera and didn't say a word during the whole match) or his coaches (which can be seen the entire match)instructed him to stall. The plain and simple truth is the match was a very good match, our wrestler appeared to be the more agressive opponent, the points (9 to 2) and the film both show this. Both boys were good wrestlers. I wouldn't take this away from either of them. We, as parents, teach both of our boys, you win some, you lose some but you will do both with good sportsmanship. I don't know what match this first writer saw, but it sure wasn't the same one I recorded on film. I'll gladly send you a copy if you'd like to review it!
Posted By: creach boys Re: Stalling tactics - 03/11/08 02:06 AM
i went to the bronze clinic in salina this weekend. randy talked about not teaching your kids to lie about age to get tickets cheaper. stalling is no different. you still get something that you did not totaly earn at someone elses sxpense.
Posted By: mmeditz Re: Stalling tactics - 03/11/08 02:28 AM
how does it add up to not being earned? the points have to be earned in the first place. unless wrestler A got his point cause wrestler B was stalling and then wrestler A just rides out wrestler B well enough that the ref can't tell he's not "working a move".
Posted By: ReDPloyd Re: Stalling tactics - 03/11/08 03:07 AM
Funny thing about this whole stalling conversation. My son is in his seventh year wrestling and the only thing he knows about stalling is that wrestlers can get called for it by the referee. My wife sent me some video of him wrestling at a few of the early tournaments this year. He was ahead in a match 3-2 going into the third period and the other kid chose both wrestlers starting up. My father-in-law was taping and I could here him telling my son he didn't have to shoot. I have to admit I was a little embarrased to hear what he was saying. My son ends up shooting and after a brief scramble in which he was almost in trouble, he ended up getting the takedown winning the match 5-2. I was proud of him for staying aggressive. I would have been more upset had he been taken down while trying not to than had he lost by staying on the offensive.
Posted By: Taylorman Re: Stalling tactics - 03/11/08 03:16 AM
[quote=Disney]Gaylen Taylor? What do you know about wrestling! I know that Atticus is the best heavy weight in Kansas. That is what I know..........Way to go Champ!
Posted By: Taylorman Re: Stalling tactics - 03/11/08 03:42 AM
[quote=jaydens parents]i went to the bronze clinic in salina this weekend. randy talked about not teaching your kids to lie about age to get tickets cheaper. stalling is no different. you still get something that you did not totaly earn at someone elses sxpense.

I respect, but don't agree w/ your view....I agree that some wrestlers objective is to not to engage and do nothing and hope their opponent makes a mistake. These are the wrestlers who take the lead in the first period and do nothing for the rest of the match. That is stalling......However, the matches that are close the entire match and one wrestler get the advantage (lead) he/she does not have to take extra chances. That wrestler must know how many stalling calls they have had and how much time is left. Good & Smart wrestlers know these things use it to their advantage. I don't mean back-up or run away......Some people mistake having good position for stalling.
Posted By: ol grappler Re: Stalling tactics - 03/11/08 02:19 PM
After visiting the site I came across this post. I looked at the video of this match. Just to clarify a few things.

The wrestler in question is a first year wrestler, who weighed in at 169 lbs. Now as a former wrestler both high school, colliagiately, and former high school coach Kansas Class 5a it would seem that the other by with 2-3 years experience and I guess outweighed the other boy by atleast 20 lbs. would first of all have the advantage.
If a wrestler is stalling there are qualified referees to issue the appropriate penalty.
If the score was 9-2 I think the winning wrestler must have been engaged in aggressive attack.
The take down was a lateral throw and then followed up with a running half nelson, this is also not a stalling tactic. You cant stall when you are laying on somebody’s chest.
The best way to defeat a stalling wrestler is to push so hard that there no question of stalling. That means both wrestlers were in one of three states. (1) both stalling (2) both out of shape (3) both so dog tired from doing there very best they just could not go anymore.
If you are not an Olympic Chamnpion, or atleast this caliber I would plan on losing at some point in my career, even the best will eventually lose if they hang around long enough. Don’t enable your wrestler to use whinning and complaining as a crutch, watch the film and learn how can I beat this guy next time. Its not what you are its what you become. Be a positive influence to the kids in wrestling or you yourself an avid wresler , fan, parent or whatever bring the whole sport down, I would apologize to my son for giving him excuses.
Posted By: FWC Re: Stalling tactics - 03/12/08 12:35 AM
Sounds like Dploid should be proud of his son. His son knows what the sport is all about. You should be proud yourself Dploid. Great attitude. If Dploid means you're in the armed service, Thank you for the service to your country.
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