Kansas Wrestling
Posted By: usawks1 Expocentre Suggestions - 01/29/09 06:10 PM
First, let me start by saying that venues such as the Expo ARE big business ... and have to be ran that way!

Searching bags, purses, coats, etc. for our safety and security, seems to be the way of the world today!

Searching for other contraband (food and drinks) will happen in some fashion, regardless where the tournament is!

The price of concessions may vary slightly from venue to venue but I don't think we are not going to find any bargains out there!

The USAW-Kansas Kids State Tournament is a BIG event. We have 1500 participants, 1000 coaches, support staff and fans. With our current operations, we need a big venue.

Whether it is Topeka, Wichita or Hooterville ... there are certain inherent issues regardless where we hold our tourney!

Now, I too at times, think that Topeka and the Expo has treated us as a given rather than a guest!! Just like a baseball player in the final year or his contract, "Topeka" need to perform well to keep playing ball!
Posted By: nix Re: Expocentre Suggestions - 01/29/09 06:39 PM
some things at the expo does not need to be ran that way for example.

me and jeffrey wrestled there last year, after jeffrey 1st match he was hot and i wanted to smoke so i grabbed his bag and we headed for the nearest door, there were 2 security gaurds at the door i asked if we could enter back through the same doors they said yes.

these were clear glass doors and the security gaurds were right there, jeffrey started saying he was cold so we opened the doors and the same security gaurds said we could not enter there now because of our bag.

so with jeffrey cold we had to walk all the way around down the hill and back through the bag check, now these 2 idiots at the door treated me and my son like crimanals, the way they were talking to us other than that they ran a good tournament, but the security needs to relax a little there.
Posted By: doug747 Re: Expocentre Suggestions - 01/29/09 07:14 PM
I've heard it over and over about "how we can make wrestling affordable", as it is probably the most expensive sport you can have your child participate in. But for them to not allow you to bring in your own drinks and food is BS.
Posted By: lateral drop Re: Expocentre Suggestions - 01/29/09 10:17 PM
attitude adjustment........
Posted By: coach craig Re: Expocentre Suggestions - 01/29/09 10:24 PM
We are not talking about bringing in our own conssession stand. I understand that there has to be bag searches for security. We are asking to bring in reasonable food for our athletes. JOC, Tulsa Nationals, Liberty Nationals, Kliff Keen...all of these tournaments allow this. Whey not the Expocentre? I am tired of hearing it is protocall. It does not have to be. Parents, coaches, and kids will still spend money at the consession stands no matter what. These are kids and they like icecream, hot dogs, and such. But to lean on the fact of "That is the way it is these days" approach does not cut it. As an organization we can make rasonable requests for the betterment of our athletes. I don't think our counsel has fought hard enough. We do have a bargoning chip....5000+ people in the city of Topeka spending money. I know we will not walk away from the Expcentre if it does not give us what we want, but I think that we need to try. So lets stop walking on eggshells and make some reasonable requests.
Posted By: sportsfan02 Re: Expocentre Suggestions - 01/30/09 02:48 AM
Originally Posted By: coach craig
We do have a bargoning chip....5000+ people in the city of Topeka spending money.

If memory serves me, that amounted to 1 and a half million dollars to the local economy over two days.
Posted By: win by pin Re: Expocentre Suggestions - 01/30/09 03:46 AM
Topeka had its chance, lets vote to move to Wichita
Posted By: hartley5 Re: Expocentre Suggestions - 01/30/09 12:29 PM
Topeka is the only tournament I have attended in the last 5 plus years of wrestling that searches bags- I don't believe they are doing it for security! They are doing it to remove the bottle of gatorade and candy bar! I have attended much larger venues and as long as wahtever I carry in is in the bag nothing is said.
Posted By: Bones1768 Re: Expocentre Suggestions - 01/30/09 01:22 PM
I must be the odd duck, but I want my bag checked. And I want your bag checked and his bag checked and so on. This is for the kids and in today's age who knows. I want my children to live a long life, not saying something will happen but who knows. A bag check if done correctly only takes a couple of minutes. I can live with that.

Now on the concern about food, I believe we should be able to bring in a moderate amount of food, just not a cooler full.
Posted By: HEADUP Re: Expocentre Suggestions - 01/30/09 01:33 PM
we need to decide something here. who is the customer and who is the big business? randy i agree with you that i don't know that we will find a bargain. i am glad to have my bag checked, FOR SECURITY, but the fact is they stop checking once they find your contraband (gatorade, energy drink, whatever). i feel that the topeka chamber of commerce members who bend over backwards, and count on this revnue, would be very upset if the tournament were moved, because of 20oz of gatorade. small gestures can make a big impression. if you don't get the service you want at your local lowe's, you would travel to the nearest home depot. does this hurt lowe's, not bad today, but over time very much, just ask a k-mart exec. let's face it the economy isn't changing any time soon, we need to make decisions now, to ensure the survival of this sport. until we change, i will keep my money to myself, and enjoy the stale popcorn and chips in the hospitality room, yum yum. negative one on the bcs scale!!!
Posted By: nix Re: Expocentre Suggestions - 01/30/09 02:32 PM
now who really believes they checked your bags for weapons and to make the venue safer? think back do you remeber getting patted down no. when we was there they checked your bag, they did not pat you down at all.

so the venue was safer because some one had a weapon in the back of there pants instead of in there bag. hell i could of had a shotgun stuck down my pants. but guess what the bag would have been clear. all but nthe snacks we had.

so why would you like having your bagged checked knowing no one is getting patted down or at least not when we was there.
Posted By: doug747 Re: Expocentre Suggestions - 01/30/09 05:22 PM
I have to agree with you on that. If the search was for security, fine, if it is to make sure the concession stands make more money, not fine.
Posted By: doug747 Re: Expocentre Suggestions - 01/30/09 05:24 PM
And the concession stands wouldn't have to worry about people bringing food in if they charged reasonable prices for food. I like the local tourneys where the parents make the concession food. Valley Center had a pulled pork sandwich, chips and a drink for I believe $3 or $4. That is reasonable, especially since it was GOOD food. The expocenter would charge $8 for something like that.
Posted By: H.R. Cook Re: Expocentre Suggestions - 01/30/09 05:40 PM
I would like to address the bag searches. The Expocentre conducts bag searches for security reasons. Now please keep in mind that like most large venues or even the movie theatres we do not allow outside food and drink into the building. Our searches in the last two years have amounted to opening a bag or purse looking for security threats, if guard did see a Sonic bag or larger food items we remind the patrons that it is not allowed. We have found some serious security risks at these tournaments and have taken corrective action.....large knives, guns and such....yes even at Kansas Kids.

The wrestlers are allowed to bring in beverages for hydration at the participant entrance. I dont mean to be sneaky about this but if it were me, I would bury whatever it is you want to snack on under a blanket or other item. We will not rummage through your bag....take it to your seat and enjoy it there. Also remember that because we have a parking lot, many wrestling families take a break and go back out to the car and enjoy whatever they packed in their cooler for the day.

We have not taken Kansas Kids Wrestling for granted. Every year we listen to the board and tournament chairs and adjust policies and yes concession menus each year. This is one of our favorite events of the year.

Thank you for your time today.

H.R. Cook
General Manager
Kansas Expocentre
Posted By: shawnbudke Re: Expocentre Suggestions - 01/30/09 05:49 PM
Anybody caught sneaking stuff in totally disregards rules, laws, etc, and should be kicked out of the tournament, etc.....oh wait, thought I was on the anti-chew thread...sorry, having a hard time telling the difference from a philosophical perspective.
Posted By: MIGHTY'SMOM Re: Expocentre Suggestions - 01/30/09 05:54 PM
Security checks are ok, if that is what is truly being done, I don't think that is the whole point of the bag searches. But YES, our bag was completely checked, purses also. EVERYTHING pulled out and gone through. My daughter had a pack of gum and tictacs taken from her purse! We later paid $8 for a slice of (cold/hard) pizza and small drink that we waited 20 minutes on line to get!

Keep the concessions reasonable
Let parents and other spectators bring snacks and drinks (within reason)
And give the security guards some lessons on proper manners
And from what I am reading here... try to get involved with keeping the local motels from price gouging

Maybe everyone will stop pushing to have this moved to wichita
Posted By: coach craig Re: Expocentre Suggestions - 01/30/09 06:16 PM
Mr. Cook,

I think that we all would agree that there has to be a level of security. I don't think that we are questioning that. I do think that our wrestlers should have to "sneak" in reasonable amounts of food. I think that we would appreciate it if we did not have to be "sneaky" about it. Why can't you allow our wrestlers to bring in reasonable amounts of food. The Expocentre is different than other tournaments of this magnatude. I think that we have to get away from the security standpoint as that is a given. We all want to be safe. We are talking about reasonable amounts of food. I would like for you to make some considerations and supply us and the security staff with an approved list so we can stay with in the rules.

I don't want to have to have my athletes sneak stuff in.

Coach Craig Adams
Posted By: MIGHTY'SMOM Re: Expocentre Suggestions - 01/30/09 07:10 PM
I agree with not making our kids be sneaky. Who knows how the mind works? If we are telling these kids it is alright to sneak snacks in at these ages, who's to say that as teens they subconsciously think it is ok to sneak in something other than food? Know what I am saying?
I have spent a lot of time teaching my kids right from wrong and I am not going to tell them it's ok to cheat here and there occaisionally.
To be honest with you, I am a little concerned that someone in authority is making that suggestion in the first place.
Posted By: nix Re: Expocentre Suggestions - 01/30/09 07:49 PM
mr cook?

is it or is it not just as easy to carry a weapon underneath your shirt, or in your jeans. i will answer that yes it is so if it is about security why not have a pat down or medal detectors. the answer is simple it has nothing to do with safety.

if you explain checking bags but not pat downs for weapons then maybe we could all understand thats it's simply security.

Posted By: Mark J Stanley Re: Expocentre Suggestions - 01/30/09 07:50 PM
The Expocentre has a contract with an outside group that handles concessions. A part of that contract is the exclusive right to sell food and drinks on the property. This is not that uncommon. The Bicentennial has a similar outside group and this weekend if you read their flier you are told “ABSOLUTELY NO FOOD OR COOLERS ALLOWED IN THE BICENTENNIAL CENTER”. Most high schools have contracts with a soft-drink of choice. When hosting a tournament at my High School I am required to utilize Coca-Cola products…I cannot even bring Pepsi products in for the hospitality room. The Coliseum in Wichita has similar issues to deal with…go back and research the threads complaining about that facility on the HS Forum a few years ago when 4/5/6A state was hosted there. I think their security guards were even accused of being Nazis with “mullets” to boot! The new arena in downtown Wichita will be an SMG property. Guess who else is an SMG property…you guessed it, the Kansas Expocentre. Do you think that all SMG properties will not be managed in a similar manor; heck they probably will have the same concessions vendor.

Without putting words in his mouth, I think what Mr. Cook was trying to say above was that searches for food and drink items were loosened up last year at the athlete’s entrance. And from his comments today I read that to mean that they will continue that policy again this year. Can he tell you that you can bring in the kitchen sink…no. His facility has a contract with a vending company that has exclusive rights in this regard. However, with a wink-and-nod he has told you that the policy has been loosened up for the athletes. Don’t drag him through the mud over it; appreciate his position and the good faith effort he made at compromise in his statement above.
Posted By: 24/7 Re: Expocentre Suggestions - 01/30/09 07:53 PM
I hear what you are saying Mark, but the fact still remains I have never had my bad searched at the Bi-Centennial Ctr, Tulsa, Municipal in KC, others. And they have exculsive contracts for food at every one of them.

24/7
Posted By: nix Re: Expocentre Suggestions - 01/30/09 07:59 PM
in the end no matter what, food hotels. bag searches. you guy's do host a great tournament, and in the end thats all that matters...

so no matter what we all complain about, give your self a pat on the back for offering a great tounament for our kansas wrestlers.

if i did not have this site to complain on and had to complain to my wife she would get tired of hearing it and slap the crud out of me.
Posted By: T Yeagley Re: Expocentre Suggestions - 01/30/09 09:30 PM
I have been to Salina a few years ago and they had stuff taken out of bags all over the table at the entrance.
Posted By: HEADUP Re: Expocentre Suggestions - 02/01/09 01:31 AM
as long as the wrestlers are alowed to bring in gatorade, water etc. i think most people will be happy. the problem i have is this we had a wrestler come through with 2 bottles of gatorade and he was told that he was only alowed to bring in one. i agree we always bring sandwiches and eat in the parking lot, or back at the motel. i don't want to bring in a feast, we just want water and gatorade for the kids. thanks for responding, it shows that we do have a voice.
Posted By: aj75 Re: Expocentre Suggestions - 02/01/09 01:55 AM
I'll bring a grill everyone can furnish their own meat and we can have a tailgate! haha
Posted By: mmeditz Re: Expocentre Suggestions - 02/01/09 02:13 AM
Adding to Marks comments, today at the Bicentennial center atheletes were denied bringing in even just bottled water. I witnessed a situation where security was called to the entrance for two men bringing back in coffee cups that they had purchased in the concessions and then absentmindedly ventured out into the entry commons area.

My point is that it is happening all over and even tighter then what the expo does. I bought $3 20oz bottles of water and diet coke today. Lets just get over it.
Posted By: Bones1768 Re: Expocentre Suggestions - 02/01/09 02:37 AM
I agree with meditz, if you thought or think that topeka was bad then you definately would have been Pi**ed of at salina today. Because wrestlers and family were not allowed to bring NOTHING in the form of food or drink in.
Posted By: Allie Re: Expocentre Suggestions - 02/01/09 04:51 PM
On the forum it said that Salina's concessions would be affordably priced. In my book, a $3 hot dog was not affordably priced. On the other hand we stopped at the sizzler in Junction City and paid $50 for the 5 of us and we all left wishing we'd eaten a $3 hotdog along with a $3 bottle of water!! (Next year i'll pack sandwiches and we'll eat in the car!!)
Posted By: Allie Re: Expocentre Suggestions - 02/01/09 06:17 PM
I meant to say - don't stop at that Sizzler... food was not good. The hot dog would've been MUCH better!!
Posted By: John Johnson Re: Expocentre Suggestions - 02/01/09 11:44 PM
At Salina this year they did check bags. However, you could leave your coolers in the lobby and go out as you needed. The kids, all of them, quickly learned how to avoid the security. Additionally, no one pat searched anyone and most of their staff were polite. Salina just has a better place, its just too small.
Posted By: hotrodder54 Re: Expocentre Suggestions - 02/02/09 12:24 AM
Salina is a great place but way to small. What do you mean there was no body seaches I had one IT WAS GREAT AND SHE WAS POLITE !!!! Why do so many hate the expo center so much? Its high priced? Try going to a national tournament parking 10.00, entry 45.00, Coaches pass 30.00, Food out of this world high? I know I'm lucky its pretty close but at the end of the day I drive 1 hour stay in hotel anyway and we treat it like a vacation the whole family goes. I live in KCK if you move it Goodland in a corn field the kids wrestle on a gravel lot and charge top dollar to get in. Bottom line if he wants to go and gets in, we'll go! Move it if ya'll want trade it back and forth to be FAIR (Politic correctness is killing me) if you want Hopfully we'll be lucky enough to be there.
Posted By: nix Re: Expocentre Suggestions - 02/02/09 02:22 AM
but was she cute.
Posted By: bearsdad Re: Expocentre Suggestions - 02/02/09 03:18 PM
we had 2 wrestlers that purchased gatorade from the concessions at salina and went outside and were not allowed to come back with their gatorades had to toss them to get back in. My suggestion is a little sticker to put on items that were purchased in the bicentennial center (or any other venue) so that you could bring them back might solve some problems.
Posted By: coach craig Re: Expocentre Suggestions - 02/02/09 04:18 PM
I think that these venues need to quit taking themselves that serious. I think that if you look at the "security" as a whole they were there to make our lives tougher. Why do they watch a person walk out with a drink they bought at the concession stand and then not let them back in with that same drink??? I am being critical on these venues because we need answers. Why do they need such tight security on bottled water??? What are the security risks of a homemade ham and cheese sandwich??? Which fruits are on Homeland Security's Watch List??? I may sound narrow minded or cynical, but we have not heard anything but excuses by others as "that is just the way it is" or "they are big business." If they would come out and just say "we feel we can hike up prices because we have a captive audience and can control distribution..." Fine. Just quit hiding behind security. Things are not any worse than when many of us were wrestling.
On top of that...what happens if an altercation breaks out??? Do these people have the training or the physical ability to get things under control???

Coach Craig Adams
Posted By: doug747 Re: Expocentre Suggestions - 02/02/09 04:37 PM
"Security central, we have a teen with a lethal weapon at gate 3, appears to be trying to sneak an orange in. As long as his arms are, I bet he is a pitcher on the baseball team, could probably throw 80-85 MPH, possible threat......Call in the SWAT team"
Posted By: bearsdad Re: Expocentre Suggestions - 02/02/09 04:51 PM
What they don't seem to understand is without all of us coming to these venues they would not be a "big business"
Posted By: doug747 Re: Expocentre Suggestions - 02/02/09 05:36 PM
It may come down to having the state tourneys at a smaller place, say Salina, and doing it in sessions, like Tulsa and Reno do now.

We could do the first two rounds in split sessions, then come togther for the rest of it, after eliminating some of the kids.

Just talking without thinking much here..........
Posted By: Jim Gaither Re: Expocentre Suggestions - 02/02/09 05:50 PM
Originally Posted By: doug747
Just talking without thinking much here..........


That is just normal for you isn't it? wink
Posted By: doug747 Re: Expocentre Suggestions - 02/02/09 05:59 PM
How about someone from Salina putting together an approx time table that we'd need to make it work using the Bicentennial center? Maybe we'd need to weigh in Friday night, and wrestle the first round, and the first round of consolation to thin things out friday night.
Posted By: doug747 Re: Expocentre Suggestions - 02/02/09 06:00 PM
That is what my wife says.
Posted By: BLT Re: Expocentre Suggestions - 02/02/09 06:42 PM
Did everyone see those security guys jump up and scale that little wall and then push through the crowd (very rudely) to go talk to the TOHK fans. It was like they had weapons or something!
Then the actual cop guy had to walk all the way down to the end to go up the stairs!
THAT WAS ALL A LITTLE OVER THE TOP!
Funny to watch but still over the top!
I just don't understand what drives people to that extreme at a kids wrestling tournament.
What could they really of done that was sooo bad that warrented all that?
JMO
Posted By: firehawk88 Re: Expocentre Suggestions - 02/05/09 12:16 AM
Got checked in Salina this weekend and the same people who run the expocenter are going to run the new wichita facility, so what's going to change other than location?
Posted By: firehawk88 Re: Expocentre Suggestions - 02/05/09 12:22 AM
Had my bag searched at salina this weekend. My daughter and wife's purses too. It does happen other places. My son was waiting to wrestle in finals, and wanted a drink of water. Guess what, the concession stand was out of water. He did without and was just fine. Little problems like this come up from time to time. We as adults should be able to deal with them. Nobody will run a perfect tourney and if they didn't search bags, someone would probably post a thread complaining that they didn't feel safe.
Posted By: lynseywebb Re: Expocentre Suggestions - 02/05/09 01:21 AM
I think some of you need to learn to hind your stuff a little better... Just an idea... Big bag and blankets... it really helps hind simple drinks and snacks. Jackets with big pockets are great also...
Posted By: win by pin Re: Expocentre Suggestions - 02/05/09 02:46 PM
salina did let you keep your coolers in the lobby. I bet they wont allow that at state. Wichita is my vote.
Posted By: win by pin Re: Expocentre Suggestions - 02/10/09 05:39 AM
bump
Posted By: HaysHighArnhold Re: Expocentre Suggestions - 02/10/09 02:25 PM
doesnt that kind of take away from the feeling of being at state... for a little one it might be like wow you made it to the state tournament have fun the rest of the weekend sitting in the stands. Idk thats just how i would feel if i was in that situation
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