Kansas Wrestling
Posted By: bubbasmom77 wichita classless move - 03/08/09 01:47 AM
I am referring to the poll taken at the coaches meeting to do away with the parade of champions (that every kid in the building that has been to the classic and made the parade was looking forward too). This is a kids sport and I understand wanting to change the format and get out sooner but you do not do it the day of when all the kids are expecting it. To poll the coaches and say that they are the reason the tournament is there is bull, the tournament is there because of the kids, and it is supposed to be for the kids.

Before i get prosecuted i know how many coaches are giving their time for the sport for free, My point is we all expected the parade and were already in for that on our schedules today, if you want to make that change have some class and put it on your flier for next year. just my opinion

Mike Pirl
Posted By: Takealookatthat Re: wichita classless move - 03/08/09 02:02 AM
I for one was glad they did away with the parade!!! The Wichita Classic is not a qualifying tournament..The parade's for state, "where it really counts.." I thought the tournament was ran very well with very good competition...
Posted By: Roost Re: wichita classless move - 03/08/09 02:03 AM
I think the choice not to have the parade was fine- we got out of there earlier and really-is the parade really for the kids or the parents?
Posted By: KansasMom Re: wichita classless move - 03/08/09 03:19 AM
i believe the parade is for the kids and i seen kids crying over not having the parade and other kids who have never placed at park city who finally made it just to have the parade taken away from them. i personally would give up one hour of my time to see my child happy. i think next year we may go somewhere else.
Posted By: RYLANT Re: wichita classless move - 03/08/09 03:28 AM
I agree it would be nice to leave early but even without the parade we were out after 5:30! the flier stated finals and the kids were expecting it. I know it is not a qualifying tourney but it is supposed to be of national stature. Why are we paying $30 for a tourney that is just like every other tournament! I know I know it is all about the competition right?!? Then why is Salina only $20 and our bracket was 4 times as big(literally). My kid picks what tournaments we go to and he was definately upset about no finals today. They could have just shortened them or made them earlier. Next time let the kids pick!:)
Posted By: J. Dale Re: wichita classless move - 03/08/09 03:38 AM
we went to hays- 20$, nicer venue, great competition, better officiating, nice awards, out by 5 (and had one of the last matches of the day), hospitality room (although i don't know what they had in it as i didn't have a chance to go in), after going there i would never even consider any other tourny that weekend it was definitely worth the drive. plus the kids had the overnight deal and swimming.
Posted By: Bob Miller Re: wichita classless move - 03/08/09 04:16 AM
I agree Never went to the Wichita tourney but Hays was great.The trophies were the nicest of the year the competition was great it was a great tourney we will go back
Posted By: Cokeley Re: wichita classless move - 03/08/09 04:32 AM
The Kids State Tournament has a parade of placers/champions. Encourage the wrestlers to work hard and save the parade for THE big event of the year.

I was not in Wichita (more below) but EVERYONE I talked to was elated that there was no giant break and parade in Wichita. KC area parents actually got home at a decent hour. The officials loved it too!

I was in Hays. Gross Memorial Coliseum is second to none for a regular season event. I would love to see us break up the state tournament and have 6,8,10 (and maybe 12's) at Gross. Support Kansas' only D2 program! Hats off to Brian Schumacher and crew!
Posted By: birddog Re: wichita classless move - 03/08/09 11:53 AM
I heard that the Park City - Wichita Classic will be held @ the new Hartman Arena next year. Maybe the Hays crew could come and run it, then their would be no competition between the 2 tournaments. Why are those 2 tournaments held on the same weekend anyhow? Is someone trying to be a hard head. Maybe one of the tournaments could be held early in the season, then Kansas could have 3 non-conflictual "bigger" tournaments every year. One tournie in the early season - one mid-season - one late season.
Posted By: wrestlingmom Re: wichita classless move - 03/08/09 12:23 PM
Unfortunately, if you have ever been at the Wichita Classic it is not just another hour, it is the break, lining the kids up and announcing every kid who is wrestling for 3-4th place as well as 1-2nd place. I would say all in all it adds a few hours to the tournament. I didn't hear anyone who was upset about the decision.

I am in agreement with Will Cokeley (and that doesn't happen often does it Will ;)) have your kid work hard and get to State to be part of not only the parade of clubs but hopefully the parade of champions.

I for one am looking forward to the change in venue next year.
Posted By: Cyclone Re: wichita classless move - 03/08/09 01:06 PM
Although we were unable to attend either tournament, I know my wrestlers would have been disappointed without the parade at the Classic. I am not aware of what occurs during the break between the last qualifying match and the parade, (probably many things) maybe that time frame needs to be shortened.

In response to Mr. Cokeley's thought about breaking up the state tournament to have some ages at Gross Memorial Coliseum and some in Topeka, IMO that could never happen. There are too many wrestling families with wrestlers in different age divisions that qualify for state. We would have been traveling in two different directions for state.

Birddog's idea about three good size tournaments at different times is great. Hays, Salina and Park City. (Especially if the Classic is going to be held at another venue).
Posted By: aj75 Re: wichita classless move - 03/08/09 01:25 PM
The parade was never really that great! All the kids gathered at the end of the mat looking like they had no idea what to do! I have to agree that a parade of champions is only for state! Had a kid in the finals and was out by 2! Less time smelling cow stuff! How many people complaining are doing so because their kids were upset, or because they wanted it?????
Posted By: Roost Re: wichita classless move - 03/08/09 02:47 PM
in response to salina comparison- they wrestle out to 6th place were the classic did not- all big tournaments were you only have one bracket should had out awards to 6th- 32 man bracket and only 4 placers- dissapointing
Posted By: Cyclone Re: wichita classless move - 03/08/09 03:10 PM
Do the parents or the kids wrestle? The parade/finals are for the kids. It is more than just the parade and having your name announced. It was an accomplishment for the wrestler to be in the finals at the Classic.

Sure many brackets were completed early yesterday, some weren't. Regardless of where the classic has been held, wrestlers still come year after year. I believe the draw was the level of competition and the finals. It certainly wasn't the aroma that brought everyone back year after year.

Have people complained about the parade/finals in the past? (I don't know, I am sure they have.) I think what the original post was implying was how eliminating the whole parade/finals process was handled.

.
Posted By: bubbasmom77 Re: wichita classless move - 03/08/09 03:29 PM
Thank you Cyclone, that is exactly what I was saying. I can assure that I did not come home and cry about not having to spend another 100 bucks while watching the parade and finals wrestling. When you do something for so long and the kids come to expect it you dont just yank it from them. As of now could careless if this event was held in Madison Square Gardens and they added the pareade again, we will not attend again.
Posted By: Beeson Re: wichita classless move - 03/08/09 07:56 PM
Originally Posted By: Roost
in response to salina comparison- they wrestle out to 6th place were the classic did not- all big tournaments were you only have one bracket should had out awards to 6th- 32 man bracket and only 4 placers- dissapointing


Are you kidding me 6th should get an award. That means you got beat out (double elimination), wait 6th actually gets beat 3X. Who should get an award for getting beat 3X in the same day. Bunch of bleeding hearts, make the kids feel good, don't make them earn anything. This is what is wrong with wrestling these days...everyone should get an AWARD. PLEASE.

Side note: I personally don't think there should be a parade of champions at state either. Let's do what we came to do...WRESTLE.
Posted By: Curtis Chenoweth Re: wichita classless move - 03/09/09 06:49 AM
There was a time when the Classics was a much more prestigious tournament and being in the parade of champions as a wrestler meant a lot more than it does now. It's really been going downhill since the move to the horse barn. There are still some top caliber wrestlers there, but not as many as there used to be. It really should be one of the premier folkstyle tournaments in the region bringing in top wrestlers not only from Kansas but Oklahoma, Missouri, Nebraska, and Texas. Hopefully it will get bigger and tougher in the years to come with the move to Hartman Arena.
Posted By: J. Dale Re: wichita classless move - 03/09/09 12:30 PM
14U 95 at Hays 5 man round robin with 2 state champs a state runner up and a state qualifier. Now thats good competition.
Posted By: HEADUP Re: wichita classless move - 03/09/09 01:09 PM
i think the real classless move happened to on of our kids. his bracket was seeded and posted, set up where we would see some kansas competition. then at the request of 2 oklahoma coaches it was re-seeded so the oklahoma kids didn't have to wrestle on the same side of the bracket. many will think we are bitter because we lost to the ok kid, we are not. we have wrestled him 4x this season. we ended up wrestling both ok kids. we go to 2 or 3 oklahoma tournaments to start the year, plus the kickoff, and tulsa natl's. we don't go to the classic for the parade or the atmosphere of the horse barn. we go for tough competition and the chance of seeing some top kansas kids from other districts. what we got was an exact exzample of what mr chenoweth was talking about, this won't be a premier tourney, until it is ran like one. you don't go to a roller production ask to rebracket so you don't have to wrestle timmy!! we would never ask for the bracket to be re-drawn, and didn't complain (until now i guess) that it was. just trying to help keep it a good tourney maybe take it back to a premier tourney for all weights and ages. btw this bracket had at least 2 ks studs who didn't place, both ok kids placed, tx kid placed too. you just can't expect to continue to attract these quality kids if you don't run a quality tournament.
Posted By: Team*Lautt Re: wichita classless move - 03/09/09 01:48 PM
"classless move"? Then every coach at the meeting is classless - as the vote was ... oh ... 100 or so to 0. I for one was glad to get out of there early ... save the parade for state. Anyway ... thanks for the "classless" comment - that's very cool to call people you've never met that - maybe you could go with you were "disappointed?" Anyway, on a more positive note, I had heard a lot of good and bad about the tournament, as this was our first time ... I loved it -there was GREAT competion! I grew up in the country so I'm not so uptight about the whole barn thing. If anyone saw the 10U 76 and 82 matches - that's some of the best wrestling I've seen in the past couple of years - it was awesome!!!!
Posted By: jeffroberts Re: wichita classless move - 03/09/09 02:06 PM
I had stopped bringing my son because I was tired of driving home at midnight or later from the tourney. The three hour delay in matches for the parade of champions was just too long. If the parade of champions is not going to be held next year then we will start attending again.
Posted By: Mike Furches Re: wichita classless move - 03/09/09 02:09 PM
I didn't attend this year, but can say from past experiences as both a coach and an official, I hated the parade of champions at this tournament. The venue wasn't right for it, it wasn't a real celebration, at least didn't seem like it, and it took just far too much time. You want to see a parade of champions, go to Tulsa or someplace like that. Our state tournament also does a good job. Maybe at Hartman where everyone can see it will be okay, but if given a choice to get out of a tournament a little early, or have a parade of champions like was at the Classic, I would prefer to get out early every time. If able to be viewed and seen by all spectators, another story all together. I say look for some good things at Hartman though, it reminds me a lot of the Reno Livestock Arena in Reno Nevada, and it is a great venue for wrestling. I hope more big tournaments will consider it for future tournaments.

Oh yea, my son was in the finals at this tournament a number of times, winning it all but once, he hated the parade of champions as it took away from preperation time, and nothing like standing there for all of that time with nothing to do but wait on your name being called. At least at most tournaments that have a parade of champions, you are announced and have warm up time prior to and after the announcment.
Posted By: doug747 Re: wichita classless move - 03/09/09 02:44 PM
I also raised my hand to not do the parade of champions.

Even though our club uses this tourney as a fundraiser, by providing mats, table workers, setup, etc., I have to admit that I have also seen the level of competition go down. Not to say that there weren't some NAILS tough brackets. I believe there were lots of brackets that you will see the finals participants being introduced at State in a few weeks. I believe it is mainly because there is another tourney of similar size in Hays going on the same weekend. We need to figure out a way to merge the tourneys, maybe alternate years, one year at Hays, one year at Hartman, or find different weekends to hold them. If the Classic was n't going on, we'd definitely go to Hays, and I'm sure the western Kansas people would say the same about the classic.

The argument of poor facilities will be gone next year, with the move to Hartman. The parade was not able to be seen worth a hoot, and I believe it was a good decision to eliminate it.
Posted By: BLT Re: wichita classless move - 03/09/09 02:55 PM
I think that IF they decide to go back to doing the Parade of Champions (POC) at Hartman arena it will have the lights & sound to make it a little more special.
I personally am glad they did away with the POC because it just took so much time.

I was also very excited that they announced that they planned to do a big kick off tournament as well.
I think 4 big tournaments a year would be awesome for our state and our sport. We just need to get the classic & Hays on seperate weekend.
When picking between Hays & The Classic it really is a forced choice.
We get great competition and don't have to drive a bunch of hour or spend a bunch of $ to attend. The venue is meaningless!
Posted By: doug747 Re: wichita classless move - 03/09/09 02:58 PM
If the Classic has an early December kickoff tourney at Hartman, then Salina in Jan, then Hays and Classic in Feb and Early March, you would see those tourneys grow into large national caliber brackets IMO. There had been some talk of having some sort of a series to earn points toward the "ultimate championship" or something to that effect.
Posted By: HEADUP Re: wichita classless move - 03/09/09 03:28 PM
10u76 was loaded, and the brackett i was talking about. you are right jon disappointed is a better word. we have wrestled those oklahome kids, and wanted a shot at some ks kids, oh well. time to get ready for subs, see you there.
Posted By: Team*Lautt Re: wichita classless move - 03/09/09 04:43 PM
Josh - I just realized what I did - I was responding to the initial post about the coaches being classless for voting no on the parade - but it looks like I'm responding to yours - I hadn't even read your post yet. Sorry about that man - you and I are good! smile
Posted By: Roost Re: wichita classless move - 03/09/09 05:26 PM
beeson- do you not take your kid to salina? what is the difference- you get beat three times and get and award- you even get to have your picture taken! Is the classic not the same level of tournament as salina? How many other tounaments have just one bracket for the weight class? if you want to have a parade to announce the finals then award appropriatlly!
Posted By: bubbasmom77 Re: wichita classless move - 03/09/09 05:45 PM
first off I never said one thing about a coach being classless (quit looking for trouble) read the entire post. I am not upset about not having a parade I COULD CARELESS the point was don't change it on the fly when kids are expecting it. I understand why coaches dont want it and i also understand why kids do.

again I called no coaches classless nor was that implied
Posted By: Roost Re: wichita classless move - 03/09/09 06:06 PM
you mean to reply to Jon lautt-right? I never said anything about coaches
Posted By: Beeson Re: wichita classless move - 03/09/09 06:49 PM
Originally Posted By: Roost
beeson- do you not take your kid to salina? what is the difference- you get beat three times and get and award- you even get to have your picture taken! Is the classic not the same level of tournament as salina? How many other tounaments have just one bracket for the weight class? if you want to have a parade to announce the finals then award appropriatlly!


My kid has been beat out of a tournament before, but never 3X in the same tournament. First of all there should only be one open bracket for each tournament. There should not be two champions for the same age and weight at the same tournament. It's like wiping before you poop...It don't make no sense. I don't have a problem with a NOVICE bracket though. I personally believe once you lose your second match you are done. I don't care how big or tough the bracket is. Double elimination means TWO and OUT. I have issues with how big the awards are getting, Parades, 6th place finishes, and how it has to be FAIR. Can't we just WRESTLE.
Posted By: J. Dale Re: wichita classless move - 03/09/09 06:55 PM
Like wiping before you poop. Now that right there is funny i don't care who you are.
Posted By: Bronco Wrestler Re: wichita classless move - 03/09/09 07:06 PM
Also not to nit pick but Kansas has 2 Division II programs now Will, as Newman University in Wichita as transitioned to DII.
Posted By: 2coach Re: wichita classless move - 03/09/09 07:39 PM
I think if you have one big bracket you should give out an award for 6th place. My boy was in a 16 man bracket and missed out in getting a medal at Hays, and it was a pretty tough bracket, I told him I was sorry but next time we go harder. Thats the biggest bracket he's been in all year, and I would have to say the toughfest (he's only 8). He went 2 and 2 and really wrestled well. It was a great tournament and we will continue to go there over park city.
Posted By: Cokeley Re: wichita classless move - 03/09/09 08:00 PM
Originally Posted By: Bronco Wrestler
Also not to nit pick but Kansas has 2 Division II programs now Will, as Newman University in Wichita as transitioned to DII.


State University. I forgot to qualify. Newman is a private school.
Posted By: Mike Furches Re: wichita classless move - 03/09/09 08:25 PM
Originally Posted By: J. Dale
Like wiping before you poop. Now that right there is funny i don't care who you are.
I had never heard that before, I will never forget it now.
Posted By: GoShortyGo Re: wichita classless move - 03/09/09 08:29 PM
Hays was a great tournament.Its a nice venue, good refs, well ran. The only problem I have is their method of bracketing. Spreading the 'A' wrestlers over all the brackets is crazy at this point (nearing State). Either do a 16-man bracket, or put the more advanced wrestlers together and see who the winner is.
Posted By: teacherof1 Re: wichita classless move - 03/10/09 08:58 PM
Well put, GoShoryGo. My son (not bragging) is an A wrestler and was in a B-bracket, which was loaded. I know of at least 3 A wrestlers in both brackets. Would have like to see what would happen if all were put together. Would make for some great wrestling. Not to put down the Hays tournament. What an AWESOME event. So cool for the kids and great place to watch for the fans. Very well ran. Would like to see State broke up with possible 10 & U at Hays and 12-14-16 at Topeka. Different weekends of course for the families with more than one wrestler. Hays just does such a great job at hosting these and has a very adaquate facility to do so. Also Hays is more centralized than Topeka.
Posted By: doug747 Re: wichita classless move - 03/11/09 12:53 AM
Don't forget about the Southern Plains FS Greco Regional at Hays in June, which is preceded by the Southern Plains FS Greco Camp the week before. We need to load that tourney up with Kansas kids. It will also get Teams Kansas ready for Schoolboy, Cadet, and Junior Duals, and of course Fargo.

Never too early to start thinking about your kid having a goal to be a part of Team Kansas this summer.
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