Kansas Wrestling
Originally Posted By: in it to win it
Same here on the discussion for Sunday. Where are the Proponents for supporting the 6 & U state? Are we attempting to eliminate Ottawa's 6 & U State stronghold?

Altogether this should be within the Novice umbrella as these wrestlers are Novice falling into < 2 years of experience. Then again our low wt's in 8 and under (4o# or so) when the class's top weight is 125#. I would be interested in knowng how many 7 & 8 year olds truly weigh 40 lbs and is this class filled primarily of 6 & U's?


Let me be the first but I am guessing there are over 2,000 others who are right behind me. First off I really don't want to make this about Ottawa. Rick has done a fine job running an unofficial but sanctioned event. However, that event in itself became problematic. The brackets were too big, the travel was lengthy, and it is too late in the season.

The proposal is to have District tournaments conducted on the Sunday after HS regionals. The top four from the four districts will qualify for state in Salina the following weekend which is the Sunday after 4A State. This will be a USAWKS Kansas Kids State Tournament. The qualifying will be standardized and the age division will be defined just as the other recognized groups who will be wrestling later in March. This will end the season for 6U wrestlers in February. It will limit the brackets to 16. The event will be in a large arena instead of a high school. The awards and brackets will be the same as the other age divisions wrestled in Topeka. The drive will be four hours or less for ANYONE who lives in Kansas. It will end at a decent hour allowing these kids to be home and in bed for school the next day.

The 6U group CANNOT be added to the existing event. The existing event is already too large for the arena and city it is held in. (We run out of quality hotel rooms every year, wrestling on partial mats for 8U, 10U, and 12U is just not good!) The Pros FAR outweigh the cons.

I hope that everyone will JUST SAY YES and make this happen for the 2,000 plus 6U wrestlers we have buying USA Wrestling Cards. I don't have a 6U wrestler but I will be there to help and see the smiles on their faces!
_________________________
Will Cokeley
(708)267-6615
willcokeley@gmail.com
i second that
If this passes do not add another weekend date - I already go to about 16 to 20 tournaments during a folkstyle season - that is between Novice and Open tournaments. I will still vote NO either way - from a district and state viewpoint on the importance of having a 6 and under state tournament.
Nobody is forcing any club or parent to participate in this or any tournament. Our club and individual members do not attend some tournaments during the season. Some of those tournaments would be ones that other clubs/parents would consider sacrilege to miss. As I have said before, never rely on the state rules to do what is best for your club or club members! If you feel your club or it's members are better served by not attending a qualifer then by all means, don't. That would include wrestlers of any age as far as I'm concerned, not just the 6U crowd.
Why kids ditch youth sports
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1. Print this page
"Fun" is a key element of good youth sports programs
Kids join youth sports programs in droves -- and drop out in droves. Twenty million to 30 million 6- to 18-year-olds participate in youth sports programs, but around 80 percent opt out by the age of 12.
Coaching and the "fun factor" contribute to this attrition rate, say Indiana University coaching experts. Kids join such programs largely to have fun -- and they drop out when it's no longer fun. Pressure and competition need to take a back seat to the development of fundamental skills and enjoyment.
"In this country, we often use a 'warm body approach' in youth sport coaching," said David Gallahue, dean of IU Bloomington's School of Health, Physical Education and Recreation and co-author of Understanding Motor Development: Infants, Children, Adolescents, Adults (McGraw Hill, 2006).
In other words schools and recreation programs in the U.S. frequently resort to taking what they can get, often turning to well intentioned but ill prepared parents with little or no coaching experience to work with young athletes. Countries such as Canada, Australia and Great Britain require youth coaches to have certain levels of certification. If no certified coaches are available, no teams are created.
Coaches and parents should take as much pressure off of the kids as possible, because undue pressure can drive young athletes away from the sport prematurely.
"Parents and coaches should not attempt to live out their own fantasies and shortcomings through their children," said track and field expert Phillip Henson, who helps coordinate the coaching minor degree program in HPER's Department of Kinesiology. "The primary purpose of youth sports is to have fun."
Gallahue, who has advised USA Gymnastics and U.S. Ski and Snowboard Association on coaching education, and Henson, who directed the field events at the 1996 Olympic Games, offered the following suggestions to parents and coaches:
• Parents should look for the narrowest age range possible, with two-year spans being preferable. Kids who are closer in age get along better. They have similar physical, social and cognitive development levels, although their skill levels could vary widely.
• Very few sports require athletes to specialize before the age of 10 to be really good. For sports such as gymnastics, figure skating, diving and alpine skiing, early specialization may be a plus. Just about everything else requires no such early specialization, Gallahue said.
• The primary focus in youth sports should be on developing skills, not just on competition. Children do not automatically acquire basic skills such as swimming, throwing, bouncing and balancing -- skills that can lead to more specific sport skills, such as throwing a baseball or dribbling a basketball, Gallahue said. They need the time and space to practice, as well as quality instruction and positive encouragement. The bulk of youth sports, even at the middle school and high school levels, should focus on developing skill and tactics, he said, with a growing proportion of the time devoted to actual competition. In the early years, for example, 80 to 90 percent of the practice time should be devoted to skill development, with this decreasing to 40 to 60 percent in the later years.
• Helping children find success is key to making youth sports fun. Parents and coaches should help kids set realistic goals -- such as achieving a personal best -- that do not hinge on winning or losing a match.
• Children should not be treated like miniature adults.
• Attempt to take as much pressure off of the children as possible. This includes pressure to win, or to "be the best." Value needs to be placed on the needs of the children not the performance.
• New coaches can find coaching resources at Human Kinetics (http://www.humankinetics.com/), a publisher of sports and physical activity media.

How to Decrease the Dropout Rate in Youth Sports
By Caroline Carter, eHow Contributor
updated: May 6, 2010

Getting kids to stay in sports.
The National Alliance for Youth Sports states that of the roughly 40 million boys and girls playing sports in America, approximately 75 percent will drop out by the time they are 13. According to a University of Maryland critical survey on youth and sports in America, every year the attrition rate is 35 percent, and by the age of 11 most of the better players will get channeled off to select travel team opportunities. Other players drift to different interests as they approach adolescence. Bad experiences also contribute to kids dropping out of sports, but there are a few things parents and coaches can do to keep kids interested in youth sports.
Difficulty: Moderately Challenging
Instructions
1. 1

Focus on fun.
Take away the focus on winning and replace it with skill development and fun. Cut down on the amount of games and tournaments played. Set adult expectations aside and figure out what it is that the children need from playing organized sports, and then start serving those needs. Seek out low-cost, no-travel house league programs.
2. 2

Seek professional assistance from those who can help you make a difference in your community.
Access professionals who can help you set up action committees in your area. For help, look up helpful websites like Bobbigelow.com (see Resources). Bigelow is a former NBA player who helps communities restructure their sports programs. He believes that the current focus on adult sports models for kids is not in kids' best interests, and he is a proponent of learning new skills, participation, fun and properly managed competition.
3. 3

Change up your kids' play.
Decrease the grueling hours committed to the sport. Limit the burnout factor for young players by encouraging other interests, whether it be in other sports, music or art. When the time devoted to your kids' sports starts to interfere with them just being kids, pull back the reigns a bit and let them enjoy simply playing in the driveway with friends. Kids can pick up a lot about sports by creatively playing on their own or with friends, unencumbered and with no coaching


Read more: How to Decrease the Dropout Rate in Youth Sports | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/how_6163082_decrease-dropout-rate-youth-sports.html#ixzz12EtwZBMv
How many other sports (baseball, softball, soccer, etc.,) in Kansas have a 6 & under state tournament? I do not know. Also how long of a season do these other 6 & under sports last?
Why kids ditch youth sports
• Email
• Facebook
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• Newsfeeds
• StumbleUpon
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1. Print this page
"Fun" is a key element of good youth sports programs
Kids join youth sports programs in droves -- and drop out in droves. Twenty million to 30 million 6- to 18-year-olds participate in youth sports programs, but around 80 percent opt out by the age of 12.
Coaching and the "fun factor" contribute to this attrition rate, say Indiana University coaching experts. Kids join such programs largely to have fun -- and they drop out when it's no longer fun. Pressure and competition need to take a back seat to the development of fundamental skills and enjoyment.
"In this country, we often use a 'warm body approach' in youth sport coaching," said David Gallahue, dean of IU Bloomington's School of Health, Physical Education and Recreation and co-author of Understanding Motor Development: Infants, Children, Adolescents, Adults (McGraw Hill, 2006).
In other words schools and recreation programs in the U.S. frequently resort to taking what they can get, often turning to well intentioned but ill prepared parents with little or no coaching experience to work with young athletes. Countries such as Canada, Australia and Great Britain require youth coaches to have certain levels of certification. If no certified coaches are available, no teams are created.
Coaches and parents should take as much pressure off of the kids as possible, because undue pressure can drive young athletes away from the sport prematurely.
"Parents and coaches should not attempt to live out their own fantasies and shortcomings through their children," said track and field expert Phillip Henson, who helps coordinate the coaching minor degree program in HPER's Department of Kinesiology. "The primary purpose of youth sports is to have fun."
Gallahue, who has advised USA Gymnastics and U.S. Ski and Snowboard Association on coaching education, and Henson, who directed the field events at the 1996 Olympic Games, offered the following suggestions to parents and coaches:
• Parents should look for the narrowest age range possible, with two-year spans being preferable. Kids who are closer in age get along better. They have similar physical, social and cognitive development levels, although their skill levels could vary widely.
• Very few sports require athletes to specialize before the age of 10 to be really good. For sports such as gymnastics, figure skating, diving and alpine skiing, early specialization may be a plus. Just about everything else requires no such early specialization, Gallahue said.
• The primary focus in youth sports should be on developing skills, not just on competition. Children do not automatically acquire basic skills such as swimming, throwing, bouncing and balancing -- skills that can lead to more specific sport skills, such as throwing a baseball or dribbling a basketball, Gallahue said. They need the time and space to practice, as well as quality instruction and positive encouragement. The bulk of youth sports, even at the middle school and high school levels, should focus on developing skill and tactics, he said, with a growing proportion of the time devoted to actual competition. In the early years, for example, 80 to 90 percent of the practice time should be devoted to skill development, with this decreasing to 40 to 60 percent in the later years.
• Helping children find success is key to making youth sports fun. Parents and coaches should help kids set realistic goals -- such as achieving a personal best -- that do not hinge on winning or losing a match.
• Children should not be treated like miniature adults.
• Attempt to take as much pressure off of the children as possible. This includes pressure to win, or to "be the best." Value needs to be placed on the needs of the children not the performance.
• New coaches can find coaching resources at Human Kinetics (http://www.humankinetics.com/), a publisher of sports and physical activity media.

How to Decrease the Dropout Rate in Youth Sports
By Caroline Carter, eHow Contributor
updated: May 6, 2010

Getting kids to stay in sports.
The National Alliance for Youth Sports states that of the roughly 40 million boys and girls playing sports in America, approximately 75 percent will drop out by the time they are 13. According to a University of Maryland critical survey on youth and sports in America, every year the attrition rate is 35 percent, and by the age of 11 most of the better players will get channeled off to select travel team opportunities. Other players drift to different interests as they approach adolescence. Bad experiences also contribute to kids dropping out of sports, but there are a few things parents and coaches can do to keep kids interested in youth sports.
Difficulty: Moderately Challenging
Instructions
1. 1

Focus on fun.
Take away the focus on winning and replace it with skill development and fun. Cut down on the amount of games and tournaments played. Set adult expectations aside and figure out what it is that the children need from playing organized sports, and then start serving those needs. Seek out low-cost, no-travel house league programs.
2. 2

Seek professional assistance from those who can help you make a difference in your community.
Access professionals who can help you set up action committees in your area. For help, look up helpful websites like Bobbigelow.com (see Resources). Bigelow is a former NBA player who helps communities restructure their sports programs. He believes that the current focus on adult sports models for kids is not in kids' best interests, and he is a proponent of learning new skills, participation, fun and properly managed competition.
3. 3

Change up your kids' play.
Decrease the grueling hours committed to the sport. Limit the burnout factor for young players by encouraging other interests, whether it be in other sports, music or art. When the time devoted to your kids' sports starts to interfere with them just being kids, pull back the reigns a bit and let them enjoy simply playing in the driveway with friends. Kids can pick up a lot about sports by creatively playing on their own or with friends, unencumbered and with no coaching


Read more: How to Decrease the Dropout Rate in Youth Sports | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/how_6163082_decrease-dropout-rate-youth-sports.html#ixzz12EtwZBMv
Sean, you are starting to sound like One Big A. Mistake America. It is an OPPORTUNITY, not a mandate. This would make the 6U season basically 8 weeks in Kansas. Why would you DENY an opportunity to 2,000 plus wrestlers who paid their $35? No one is saying, ALL 6U WRESTLERS MUST GO TO DISTRICTS AND STATE. It is a choice. Sport0 and I TOTALLY agree.
Originally Posted By: Cokeley
Sport0 and I TOTALLY agree.

I just got a bad taste in my mouth!
From one Big W to another,

I would not keep throwing out the 2,000 number. What percentage of that number went to Ottawa and what percentage decided not to go. How big of a tournament would each district be? We do have a percent or number of parents in that 6 & under division that are not in favor of a 6 year old state tournament. That age group (6 & under) is probably the largest particpation number in every sport acrossed the nation. I know every sport acrossed the nation does not have a state championship for six year olds and I also know some states do offer such opportunities. Attrition weeds them out and then they begin to learn the sport or activity of choice and wait their turn to go to the big dance.

Good healthy discussion - I hope the district and state meeting have a time limit and they vote - No or Yes.
Originally Posted By: smokeycabin
From one Big W to another,

I would not keep throwing out the 2,000 number. What percentage of that number went to Ottawa and what percentage decided not to go. How big of a tournament would each district be? We do have a percent or number of parents in that 6 & under division that are not in favor of a 6 year old state tournament. That age group (6 & under) is probably the largest particpation number in every sport acrossed the nation. I know every sport acrossed the nation does not have a state championship for six year olds and I also know some states do offer such opportunities. Attrition weeds them out and then they begin to learn the sport or activity of choice and wait their turn to go to the big dance.

Good healthy discussion - I hope the district and state meeting have a time limit and they vote - No or Yes.





Sean,

If we vote yes and try this proposal out for one year I will be able to provide you with numbers and answers to all of your questions.

Why can't I use the 2,085 number? It is a FACT. 2,085 parents with wrestlers in the 6U age group forked over $35 for each wrestler last year. That is $72,975 dollars. We used that number so why can't I use the 2,085 number?

What harm do you think this proposal will have on Kansas Kids Wrestling? How will it negatively impact where we are today? How will voting no promote growth in our sport?
Nebraska accomodates the younger wrestlers:

http://www.nebraskausawrestling.org/state_folkstyletourn.htm

Oklahoma accomodates the 6U's too:

DIVISION I (6 & under): 37,40,43,46,49,52,55,60,66,Hwt.

DIVISION II (8 & under): 43,46,49,52,55,58,61,64,67,70,75,83,90,105,Hwt.

DIVISION III (10& under):52,55,58,61,64,67,70,73,76,80,85,90,100,110,120,131,Hwt

DIVISION IV (12 & under): 64,67,70,73,76,80,84,88,92,96,100,105,110,120,130,140,160,Hwt.

DIVISION V (15 & under): 78,86,94,102,110,118,126,134,142,152,165,185,Hwt (Max. 275).

http://okseries.com/youth/flyers10/okwastatetournament2010.htm

Oklahoma ends their kids series in mid-February.

As well as having an OFFICIAL Novice State Tournament as well.

Missouri has 6U State and Rookie State OFFICIAL events:

http://missouriusawrestling.org/09-10/Results/6U-Rookie/BracketMain.htm
Is there any club director reading these forums who hasn't made up their mind one way or another on how they intend to vote?
I am for this proposal. The 6&U kids are wrestling competitively already so lets cut down the size of the brackets and split the tournament over two weekends earlier in the season. Yes it does make it harder for coaches and club directors. Like Smokeycabin posted earlier some of us already go to 16-20 tournaments already but if adding a couple more shortens the season for the younger wrestlers in the state and gives them the same reward as their older counterparts I don't see a big issue.
Most of the posts against this are focused on how negative competitive sports are on the young children. They are already wreslting competitively and some up in age. If we don't change this by cutting the bracket size down and splitting the tournament over two weekends then aren't we part of the problem? If we continue to let these kids wrestle up in age aren't we pushing them into more competitive situations?
Sorry I forgot to post my name with my post

Andrew Steele
ford69f100@yahoo.com
I admire the States & National tournaments that have 6 & U with relative weights i.e. 9-10 wt. classes. Will, keep in mind you were in the vicinity of 18 or 19 wt. classes including 80 wrestlers that are 5 & 6 years old weighing 80 lbs and up! Can we not look at the other state wt. classifications and take some wisdom?

As proposed it appears that no other clubs are able to "bid" for 6 & U State as you have reserved Salina already. HMMMMM. Yes, centrally located but what about Hutchinson? Ft. Hays State University (to even things out a little since they have to drive to Topeka) or even Wichita?

Keep in mind when you throw the season picture --OK Wrestling (they've already had 2 weekends of tournaments & end a bit earlier) and MO starts first part of December & ends around nearly the same as KS.

How will you not know that the 6 & U's that want to wrestle a little bit more don't jump up into the lower wt's of the 8 & U's after season to see what they can do when they'll be in the 7 & 8 y.o. group the next season. The clubs that host tourn's after the 6 & U series are going to of course lose revenue, consequently the ultimate aim/motive is moving the entire Kids State series before Spring Break.

We do realize parents have to purchase the USA cards in order for the children to practice (liability wise). So, we're giving a 2,000+ number out there. How many children actually attend without missing each practice and finish the entire season as it is?

Yes, I am supportive of a 6 & U series but ONLY @ the NOVICE level.. The pressure of seeding and the competitive drama is way too stressful tired(as documented in multiple thesis/dissertations/studies and data).

*I would also like that whenever anyone cites my remarks not to take it out of context but use the quotations.
I would recommend that there is NO SEEDING this year. Salina is convenient for an inaugural tournament for a couple of reasons. First, a club will not be hosting this event, the USAWKS State Tournament Committee will be doing so. The 4A State tournament is the day before so we will have mats available. The arena is cost effective. If the series is successful then we can put the event up for bids in the future. Availability and convenience are critical issues when you are looking at a limited time to prepare.

6U's will undoubtedly jump to the 8U group in some open tournaments after this event. That will be at the discretion of the tournament director. They will NOT be allowed to participate in the 8U USAWKS State Tournament Series, by rule.

Rictoria, if you can provide me with a method to accurately collect practice attendance data I will jump all over that. I do know that if EVERY tournament would utilize trackwrestling I would have more data to work with.

There may be brackets in the District qualifiers that are larger than we would like. I would not be as concerned about the qualifier as the attendees will be geographically closer to their homes because it is a district event. We could entertaining capping each weight class at 32. Again, this is a proposal to improve. It will have wrinkles that need to be ironed out. The more support we have the more success we will achieve!
These are the age & weights that USA Wrestling our National Governing Body used for Folk Style Nationals in the Spring of 2010 - in Cedar Falls Iowa. That is a fact - so lets stick to the facts on this topic please. I do believe the youngest competitor was 7 years old. There were no 4, 5 or 6 year olds allowed last year or any of the previous years.
And guess what 6 & unders nationwide - a portion of the card fees go to the Colorado Springs Headquarters and the Olympic Training Center.

I maybe out of touch and outdated in Kansas on this wrestling issue - but I am in touch with our national organization. Someone tell me the difference between wrestling in Cedar Falls, Iowa vs Anytown, Kansas - age groups and weights.

Divisions


Bantam: (Born 2002-2003) 40, 45, 50, 55, 60, 65, 70, 75, 75+ [15 LB Maximum Difference] (7 & 8 year olds)

Championship Bracket Periods 1:00, 1:00, 1:00
Consolation Bracket Periods 1:00, 1:00, 1:00

Intermediate: (Born 2000-2001) 50, 55, 60, 65, 70, 75, 80, 87, 95, 103, 112, 120, 120+ [20 LB Maximum Difference]

Championship Bracket Periods 1:00, 1:00, 1:00
Consolation Bracket Periods 1:00, 1:00, 1:00

Novice: (Born 1998-1999) 60, 65, 70, 75, 80, 85, 90, 95, 100, 105, 112, 120, 130, 140, 140+ [25 LB Maximum Difference]

Championship Bracket Periods 1:00, 1:30, 1:30
Consolation Bracket Periods 1:00, 1:00, 1:00

Schoolboy/girl: (Born 1996-1997) 70, 77, 84, 91, 98, 105, 112, 120, 128, 136, 144, 152, 160, 175, 190, 210, 265

Championship Bracket Periods 1:00, 1:30, 1:30
Consolation Bracket Periods 1:00, 1:00, 1:00

Cadet (Born 1994-1995) 84, 91, 98, 105, 112, 119, 125, 130, 135, 140, 145, 152, 160, 171, 189, 215, 285

Championship Bracket Periods 2:00, 2:00, 2:00
Consolation Bracket Periods 1:00, 2:00, 2:00

Junior (Born September 1, 1990 & after, plus enrolled in Grades 9-12) 98, 105, 112, 119, 125, 130, 135, 140, 145, 152, 160, 171, 189, 215, 285
Originally Posted By: smokeycabin
I maybe out of touch and outdated in Kansas on this wrestling issue - but I am in touch with our national organization.

I would never let that be my point of argument! It can only hurt your cause.
Originally Posted By: smokeycabin

I maybe out of touch and outdated in Kansas on this wrestling issue - but I am in touch with our national organization. Someone tell me the difference between wrestling in Cedar Falls, Iowa vs Anytown, Kansas - age groups and weights.



Smoke,

The difference is simple. Anytown has 6U division in their open and novice tournaments every weekend. Waterloo has over 2,000 wrestlers without including them. They will be trying to figure out how to accomodate them as well. I like simple questions. Keep them coming.
I am still waiting for Will, Mike or Kathy Juby to produce numbers by age group by year for the State of Kansas. Is it possible we are having increased numbers at a younger age and losing numbers 15 and older. If so why? How can we be increasing numbers on the lower end of this organization and losing numbers over 15 years and older. We had a slight spike in the 2009/2010 numbers over the 2008/09 numbers of 15 years old. But we added kids who were 17, 18, & 19 for the High School Division last year. We did not have those kids in years 2008/09 and going back. Will is a business man - Don't you normally get more than 1 bid or proposal before endorsing a project or excepting the bid. The only data I am getting is to large of brackets for an unoffical open tournament. People are driving to far, 2,000 kids in which only 500 (25%) participate in the unoffical open tournament - for the most part Novice kids with 1 to 2 years exeperience. What about the other Novice kids maybe 8 or 9 years old (with 1 to 2 years experience) who pay their fees but do not get a chance or opportunity to compete against kids of their own ability. Some will say throw them in with the open kids and see what happens - is that fair??????????? Not really and a bad job by us (the state organization as a whole)in developing them prior to high school if we throw a 1st year 9 year old up against a 10 year old who is a 20 time state/national/world champ.


windjammer
Member

Registered: January, 24 2005
Posts: 644

I do know that 50% of the 2004 six and under STATE CHAMPIONS from Ottawa did not compete at this years kids state championship. I did the math. In 5 years, one half have gone from state champs to not even there.
Why is this such a big deal??? I say let them have it... there season is still short...and numbers prove they enjoy it..look at Ottawa numbers 64 man brackets...this will allow it to be a true State 6u championship...No one is forcing any of them to wrestle the qualifiers....but you know they will!!!! Got my vote.
John Johnson
Member

Registered: February, 26 2006
Posts: 175
Loc: Easton I believe the issue of 6 and under wrestlers and how we treat them is very important, but I believe including them at state is not the answer. As a Saturday morning coach finding something to say to the 6 and under who just lost his 2nd straight match and is going home with his/her parents by 10:00 am, with nothing to show is tough. As such, I believe the comments from Chertow are appropriate. Getting 'all' of these kids to have fun and have success and teaching them the fundamentals is what will keep our sport full of participants. I really liked the way Paola and Park Hill kept most of the 6 and 8 u's in 4 man round robins with 4 medals. Most 5 and 6 year olds like getting a medal even if they lose all their matches. Mom and dad, who may be new to the sport, will be happier and more likely to keep their kid in the sport. I believe the answer to keeping 6 u's participating in the sport is to make it less competitive for them, not more. Have round robins for them, not 8 man brackets. I believe we should eliminate 8 and 16 man brackets for 6 u's at all but select tournaments. Yes, there are some 6 u's who can compete at a high level, and these tournaments will give them that, but the rest just need to learn. But Jeff hit on an important point, these kids are a big group and we need them. We lose way too many.
The Johnson County Kids Classic had 171 6U wrestlers in it last year. Isn't that your tournaments? Don't some of those funds go to STA Wrestling Club? Did you give all of them medals and brackets and not keep score?
Isn't that your tournaments? No s required

Could you please provide the data I have requested?

Yes it is a joint multi-club tournament with many volunteers - easy question next. Olathe East and STA have worked jointly for many many years providing opportunities. No qualifier either at our tournament and we do provide an opportunity. We have done a novice and and open division for 6 & under - I have hoped there is only one division for that age group - but because SOME 6 & under parents complain one way or another to much experience - so and so should be open and not novice. Normally more 6&U sign up for the Novice division at that age group. Could you provide the data I have requested? I have not got it yet. Will, are you suggesting the state body regulate who has a tournaments and when? STA wrestling club isn't that the one you keep bashing. I have 5 and 6 year olds in our club. I just do not think they need a state tournament and/or a state tournament series. That is made clear to the parents at the parent meeting at the beginning of the year. At that point if they disagree with the club philosophy - they get a full refund - except the card cost. There are normally 5 or 6 novice tournaments on our schedule that have 6 & under opportuntires (that can be about 12-20 matches - plenty). Then their are 8 or 9 open tournaments (20-30 matches - plenty) with 6 & under in which they may continue. I normally suggest a maximum of 4 to 6 tournaments for 6 & unders. 1st year six and unders I normally suggest maybe 2 - 4 tournaments. 2nd year six and unders maybe 3 to 5 tournaments. Some of our kids 6&U do not go toany tournaments, I have had kids 11 years old practice all year and not go to any tournaments. I have had 13 year olds miss a year (after 4 years of tournaments) and come back in high school and place very high in HS state and even a finalist on a couple of State HS Championship teams. NO six and under state tournament is not on our schedule - I will not go. We have had certified coaches (very few) from our club take their own kids - against my wishes. I do not like when parents coach their own kids at tournaments. We have an unwritten rule among our coaches to try and stay out of their childs corner of during tournament matches - the refs normally like it better also. I encourage them to work with their kids in practice - but I suggest strongly they do not coach them in tournaments - and no when to back off.
You have the same access to data as I have. I have supplied all of the data necessary to substantiate the support of the proposal.
Is this your data for your proposal.


2009/10 data
A possible 2,085 (made up of primarily 1st and 2nd year wrestlers) 22.7% of the participants get their own stand alone state tournament. Of that approximately 500 (25% of their age group) or only 5.4% of the total state number 9,174 of participants have gone to the unofficial state tournament.

Each district will host an estimated 125 kids. Of that a possible 76 kids in 19 weights in each district will move on to state. If all 19 of the brackets are full that would leave 304 kids in the running for a state championship at 6 & under.
How come the other 77.3% or 7,089 have different format and longer season.
I just hope we can limit the debate at the state meeting. I believe everyone already knows how they intend to vote so there is no sense in spending a lot of time on passionate pleas one way or another.
Mine will be extremely limited. I will NOT be at the meeting. We continue to schedule the meeting in conflict with several major, national events. I am accompanying a group of Kansas and Missouri wrestlers to Greensboro, NC to Super 32. Our club is sending a van load of wrestlers to Waterloo, IA to Preseason Nationals, a USA Wrestling event. This meeting should have been held this past weekend before all of these tournaments start.
"I will NOT be at the meeting."
Will Cokeley
(708)267-6615
willcokeley@gmail.com

I see how you do business.
Throw out a propsal and leave town - and let everyone else deal with it. You have known about the proposal how long? We (the rest of the state body/organization/and clubs) just find out - pretty much last week. Some people ask a few questions to the people who proposed and endorsed the proposal and it is like pulling teeth. Funny way to conduct business and answers questions about a proposal.
Originally Posted By: smokeycabin
How come the other 77.3% or 7,089 have different format and longer season.


Because they are older and can handle a longer season. Would you rather they be included and have an extended season? Personally I would like to see the 8U season shortened also.

Vote YES for 6 & Under State.
Sean,

To be clear...

Are you really asking for a definitive answer as to why our 15 and older numbers are dropping? (albeit last years rose).

You are surprised that the SFGD doesn't know the answer? Does anyone know the real answer? There could be hundreds of reasons. Most of those would not include 6U wrestling. That study would involve asking 15-18 year olds if 6U was the reason that they quit. You have called that a "small data request".

Crazy...
Just a quick word of caution on the idea that last year's numbers rose in the 15 and older category.....those numbers are more than likely swayed because it was the first year we had the high school division and didn't stop at 16U. Not sure but think that may have some impact on the small increase.
Let's take a look at what we are talking about....kids wrestling or high school wrestling. Most high school wrestlers have been to kids state or had a shot at it. Why are we trying to deny our 6u from having their time. Personally I would rather we get rid of the high school division and let the little guys in. this is KIDS wrestling. 6u shorter periods, and would, for the most part get great support. Imo. they are getting cut out because coaches are making the call for them. Let the kids and the parents decide, whether they want to continue or not.
There are 75 District 1 Clubs, 45 District 2 Clubs, 41 District 3 Clubs, and 36 District 4 Clubs. That is a total of 197 Clubs. I believe 120 Clubs will do the right thing and support this proposal.

I am happy to answer any and all questions about the proposal. I am as transparent as it gets. I cannot provide you any information that I don't possess. Please email me or call me if you have any questions or concerns. Smokey has provided my contact information but it has always been available on the Directors tab to your right.

VOTE YES
We have a solid proposal and a great opportunity worked out with the Salina Bicentennial Center to give the little guys their own day in the limelight. Everyone who feels strongly has weighed in on one message stream or another. Hopefully this can move straight to a vote on Sunday without an emotional outburst from either side. We frequently forget that everyone who reads and posts on this forum have at least one thing in common, a PASSION for wrestling! We should not become counterproductive within our own ranks. We will accomplish far more together than we ever will battling against each other. A YES vote is a vote for change and without change there can be no improvement.
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