Kansas Wrestling
Posted By: Spexy worst refs ever at TOC!!! - 01/30/11 01:31 PM
This was the WORST officiating crew I have ever seen this year. Refs not knowing the rules, refs yelling at kids, they all seemed to have a chip on their shoulder. The head ref and the 2 from Wichita were the only ones with any knowledge and respect for all people involved. If that is all D3 has to offer keep them out of the state tournament!!!!
Posted By: Teamroper Re: worst refs ever at TOC!!! - 01/30/11 02:07 PM
I know the ref on mat 14 was brutal, other than that I did have much trouble.
Posted By: jeffroberts Re: worst refs ever at TOC!!! - 01/30/11 02:54 PM
Now I know why the Salina tourney officials cut out the hospitality room. The official on 15 was obese to the point that he had difficulty getting down to see points on the mat or check for pins.
My son asked me how he was supposed to respect someone that yelled " I want take downs on the center of the mat." Several times at the wrestlers during the match. It appeared he didn't want to go the other side of the circle when they wrestled that way.
This guy missed calls because he just couldn't get down to see them, he appeared to assume what ought to be going on under the wrestlers and make his calls from experience.
I did watch the mat 14 officials some. A new high in lows was seeing 4 blown calls in less than 30 seconds. A new TOC record!

I needed to add that the four calls were in the same match, thats gotta be a record.
Posted By: effwhyeye Re: worst refs ever at TOC!!! - 01/30/11 03:10 PM
While I'll agree that this referee left much to be desired, I agree with the statement he made quoted above. The two wrestler in question were continually going out of bounds taking turns backing up instead of circling in. While he could have used different verbiage to make his point clearer, in my opinion he should have been handing out stalling calls.
Posted By: Bob Miller Re: worst refs ever at TOC!!! - 01/30/11 03:21 PM
There was one ref on mat 12 that stunk it up, blowing the whistle for no reason the kids would stop then he wld tell them to keep goin, counting back points then not awarding them.The rest were pretty good I thought
Posted By: Spexy Re: worst refs ever at TOC!!! - 01/30/11 04:03 PM
The Mexican ref on mat 9 threatened to kick one of our wrestlers out for, rolling his eyes at him.....give me a break....ref on mat 5 called a pin when a kid was in a full bridge....ref on mat 11 called a take-down when both wrestlers were out-of-bounds.....sure there were plenty of others...with a tournament of this caliber you'd think they would have been to notch...Great competition!!!! Terrible refs.
Posted By: dad2323 Re: worst refs ever at TOC!!! - 01/30/11 04:07 PM
Makes absolutely no sense why the aren't using track wrestling..........
Posted By: luv2wrestle2 Re: worst refs ever at TOC!!! - 01/30/11 04:26 PM
The ref on mat 6 was terrible as well.
Posted By: CMB Re: worst refs ever at TOC!!! - 01/30/11 08:44 PM
When you have this many tournaments in the state on a given week-end you are going to have uncertified refs. There are not enough good ones to go around. The head ref said that only 50% of the refs had to be certified at TOC. It's ashame that these guys don't want to stay in shape so they can do their job. What is even worse is the EGO's that they have. Hope is is better through the qualifing tournaments.
Posted By: Spexy Re: worst refs ever at TOC!!! - 01/30/11 09:13 PM
CMB.....Agree lots of tournaments going on....but one of this caliber...you want the best out there.....1250 kids at $20 per wrestler...do the math...pay for experienced refs.....not rookies.....is my point.
Posted By: Flood Boys Re: worst refs ever at TOC!!! - 01/30/11 10:17 PM
i wasn't able to attend Salina this year, but my son wrestled on mat 11 and said the refs were awful! He said the boys were all tough though and he had a great time!
Posted By: sportsfan02 Re: worst refs ever at TOC!!! - 01/30/11 10:35 PM
Originally Posted By: Spexy
CMB.....Agree lots of tournaments going on....but one of this caliber...you want the best out there.....1250 kids at $20 per wrestler...do the math...pay for experienced refs.....not rookies.....is my point.

Your math should include arena rental then!
Posted By: Nedly Re: worst refs ever at TOC!!! - 01/30/11 10:36 PM
14 years ago while coaching a soccer game I got in to a heated discussion with a offical. His last comment to me was if you think this is so easy become a offical. That year I took the the class and ref soccer games for the next 8 years. It made me a much better coach and parent while attending games. I got a true understanding how hard it is. I saw the game from a differnt angle.

Last year my son who had wrestled his whole life became a offical did kids and HS tournaments. He is not doing it this year cause in his words It's not fun be critized ALL the time.

My point here if you don't like what you see on the mat, Buy the shirt and whistle and get on the mat and help us out, we need YOU!!

Ned Price
Posted By: Cokeley Re: worst refs ever at TOC!!! - 01/30/11 10:41 PM
The quality of the officiating is the Head Official's responsibility. Perhaps the demeanor of said party lends itself to keeping the best officials away from this tournament. Just food for thought.
Posted By: Spexy Re: worst refs ever at TOC!!! - 01/30/11 10:56 PM
Why would I buy the shirt and whistle???? I know the criteria!!! Refs should know the same!!!! Coaching multiple kids is hard enough!! Getting screwed by more than 1 ref is rediculous!!
Posted By: Beeson Re: worst refs ever at TOC!!! - 01/30/11 11:19 PM
Originally Posted By: Spexy
Why would I buy the shirt and whistle???? I know the criteria!!! Refs should know the same!!!! Coaching multiple kids is hard enough!! Getting screwed by more than 1 ref is rediculous!!


That is even more reason to put on the shirt and whistle. Nothing against you personally Spexy, but there are ALOT of coaches that think they know the criteria and have NO FRICKING CLUE. The coaching this year was just as BAD at SALINA, as the OFFICIATING, probably worse.

If you want to know what is making kids numbers drop so much from 6U to 14U, it is POOR COACHING. I don't know how many times I saw two 6 years olds locking up at the head and both coaches screaming "THROW IT". Teach the kids the basics. Teach them how to wrestle, so when they get older they still enjoy it. POOR COACHING is the biggest problem in Kansas Kids Wrestling, not the OFFICIALS. The Officials are alot easier to blame though.

By the way, the young official on Mat 13 was excellent.
Posted By: hotrodder54 Re: worst refs ever at TOC!!! - 01/31/11 12:19 AM
Originally Posted By: Spexy
This was the WORST officiating crew I have ever seen this year. Refs not knowing the rules, refs yelling at kids, they all seemed to have a chip on their shoulder. The head ref and the 2 from Wichita were the only ones with any knowledge and respect for all people involved. If that is all D3 has to offer keep them out of the state tournament!!!!


I completely agree with you and you know why. couldn't there be some sort of work your way up the ladder of officiating. Do some novice, start at 6under graduate to 8under etc. on to open and so forth.

Now this particular ref is worse than I've ever seen not just at this tournament but a few weeks ago same guy same trouble different tournament. I don't know if that's some thing maybe they already do or not.
Posted By: big red fan Re: worst refs ever at TOC!!! - 01/31/11 12:26 AM
I agree with Beeson on young official on matt 13.
Bob
Posted By: jeffroberts Re: worst refs ever at TOC!!! - 01/31/11 12:37 AM
Somehow the wrestlers are soaking up good ideas and developing skills, it must be the internet training videos or the shoes. I saw lots of quality wrestling this weekend combined with novice officiating.

I did stop by the head ref and ask him to watch an official on another mat that was allowing the bottom wrestler to stand up and stagger around the mat with the top wrestler fully mounted with both legs in and fighting for a power half. Those wrestlers weren't any I was invovled with but it was scary to watch them and wonder when the injury was going to happen. There were probably 35 seconds of mat time that the two were intertwined and the bottom wrestler was standing.

Oh by the way sportsfan, you discussed math in your reply like you understood the subject. Please don't mislead people like that.
Posted By: sportsfan02 Re: worst refs ever at TOC!!! - 01/31/11 12:57 AM
Originally Posted By: jeffroberts

Oh by the way sportsfan, you discussed math in your reply like you understood the subject. Please don't mislead people like that.

Uhhhh ooooook crazy
Posted By: jeffroberts Re: worst refs ever at TOC!!! - 01/31/11 01:05 AM
Judging from the posts you have made in the past I believe that response was to the best of your ability. I commend you on the use of 4 letters.
Posted By: piggy Re: worst refs ever at TOC!!! - 01/31/11 01:09 AM
The ref who was on mat 14 for the majority of the day until the head ref moved him to mat 11 was AWFUL! Someone at the state level needs to find out why this ref continues to be certified. I saw him last year not do his job and a wrestler had to be transported to the emergency room.
Posted By: Spexy Re: worst refs ever at TOC!!! - 01/31/11 01:23 AM
Response to CHAD....I know you, you know me.....my coaching ability had NOTHING to do with the officiating .... I agree some coaches are GREEN....But those of us who aren't are the ones with a true complaint. You are very opinionated as am I ......that's what makes us coaches....fixing problems and moving on....not leaving it up to a REFEREE!!!!
Posted By: doug747 Re: worst refs ever at TOC!!! - 01/31/11 01:51 AM
I've complained about refs before, but if you ever hear me telling one of my kids that they lost a match because of a referee, get a baseball bat and hit me over the head with it. At that point, I am doing the kids no good anyway, by making excuses for them.
If getting on here and saying it for the world to see makes you feel better, more power to ya..........
Posted By: CWB Re: worst refs ever at TOC!!! - 01/31/11 02:31 AM
I ask the ref to the table as with respect.It was sad.I ask a question very nice,with NO rased voice.I was told in a yell what he thought.
It is not good when the man quotes to me about what he learned in high school.He did not give me ant respect.SAD

my boy lost dew to what he did [or lack of]but the ref sure sucked.It is sad it is this way.
Posted By: doug747 Re: worst refs ever at TOC!!! - 01/31/11 03:36 PM
I also did not say we don't have some crappy refs. Don't tell your kid the ref cost him the match is what I am saying..........
Posted By: Jason Halling Re: worst refs ever at TOC!!! - 01/31/11 07:29 PM
Just to change the subject just a bit, we had a terrific officiating crew at the Clearwater Tournament. Bill Little did a great job in compiling our staff. We had some solid veteran officials and I was suprised to hear the names of the younger refs. Chase Moses and Scott Goldsby were very good for the younger guys and I hope they stick with it. Doug Mitchell, Steve and Dennis Herrman all did very well with the younger kids. I am forgetting to list a few of you by name and I apologize for that, but great job.

It was a good day and great job guys.
Posted By: Jamie Davis Re: worst refs ever at TOC!!! - 01/31/11 08:53 PM
I would agree completly. The offcial on mat #2 for lower number matches was great. My son had pushed a wrestler off of him after being out of bounds. The official took a moment and spoke eye to eye with my son. The official took a point for what had happened. He also explained what happened to my sons coach. This guy is a class act when it comes to officiating. Yet embarassed for being talked to by a referee in a match my son now understood what had happened and to not do it again. This was his 18th. match 5th. tournament. The 1st. official to take a moment with my son to say do it the right way! Well done Clearwater officials and to all staff well ran tournament.

Jamie Davis
Posted By: GNR Re: worst refs ever at TOC!!! - 01/31/11 10:22 PM
I think you all are doing the refs at TOC terrible injustice by letting One Horrible REF(Thats All I witnessed)(The One Who Clearly Looked Like The Greatful Dead Concert Had Left His Elevator Stuck Between Floors!) give the other good and great refs a bad report! I do know a couple of the refs where very good and have gotten that way because they where refs 25 years ago when I was wrestling kids. Unfortunately not all have been able to do it that long. I do believe the ref Beeson is referring to was Last Years Highschool State Champ Jason Seibel!
Posted By: Gary Seibel Re: worst refs ever at TOC!!! - 01/31/11 11:54 PM
That is correct GNR...the young official on mat 13 was Jason Seibel. In fact, this was Jason's first event as an official...and for those in need of more officials the rest of the season he is available. He was busy playing college football and didn't get registered but he is in El Dorado, has a whistle and will travel.

Steven Plott (also one of my former wrestlers) also worked the TOC and was excellent and available.

This is a shameless plug by his dad to help them make a little extra cash!! LOL
Posted By: Beeson Re: worst refs ever at TOC!!! - 02/01/11 12:44 AM
Not Shameless, he did a great job! Pretty sure I mentioned it before you put your plug in. wink
Posted By: Teamroper Re: worst refs ever at TOC!!! - 02/01/11 01:39 AM
Originally Posted By: Gary Seibel
That is correct GNR...the young official on mat 13 was Jason Seibel. In fact, this was Jason's first event as an official...and for those in need of more officials the rest of the season he is available. He was busy playing college football and didn't get registered but he is in El Dorado, has a whistle and will travel.

Steven Plott (also one of my former wrestlers) also worked the TOC and was excellent and available.

This is a shameless plug by his dad to help them make a little extra cash!! LOL


Have him send me some contact info, I have a few left I need for Hutch. I will take him just on Beesons recomnedation.

Yuk did I really just say that....lol
Posted By: JCook Re: worst refs ever at TOC!!! - 02/01/11 08:11 PM
He did do a great job!
Posted By: eyeworks4u Re: worst refs ever at TOC!!! - 02/01/11 10:18 PM
would you rather have certified reffs or qualified reffs ? A certification is 5 dollars ! A high school certified reff has passed a test gone over with all in attendence ! You cant fail ! It doesent matter who thinks they know the rules in the small book we have , you can quote them by paragraph but can you understand the aplication of the rule to the letter ?
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