Kansas Wrestling
Posted By: jerry davis 6u State its time - 03/22/11 01:13 AM
No gripe towards Ottawa at least they let them wrestle. But we need a real State tournament.They need qualifiers just like every other age. 64 man brackets in one day is simply crazy.And I know if you don't like it then don't go,but they worked hard and they deserve it.

They split a sixteen man bracket into two days in a typical state tourney.

Most of the lower weights in 8u are six anyway. So let the heavier 6u kids compete. Shorten the season have them wrestle a couple Sundays earlier in the year for state. I am sure there are a lot of clubs that would host a 6u regional. Just like high school. Matter of fact have the tourney the same weekends as high school just have one qualifier per district on Sunday.

There are a lot of clubs this year that griped that there are too many tournaments per weekend that they cant have a good tournament. So have a regional.Only let the clubs that didn't have a regular season tournament have a regional. Then have the state at Ottawa. It would be cheap and very effective.

Bottom line is that they work hard and please treat them as such.
Posted By: Jack Otero Re: 6u State its time - 03/22/11 01:39 AM
Jerry I was just at this tournament. In the times we are in as a county it just can't happen. They ran through 130 matches on mat 3 between 9:15 and 2:30pm (could have done more without delays). It doesn't make sense to have a 6u series unless you tie it to the current series championship. To many pins to expect folks to travel for little mat time. Keep it as is!! No other tourney like it in Kansas. Only time those little ones will see 64 man brackets will be at the Kickoff or Tulsa! I was in favor of a 6u series before but am no longer. Wrestling is expensive enough!
Posted By: jerry davis Re: 6u State its time - 03/22/11 02:03 AM
Jack where are from. If you are from Ottawa I can understand why you dont want it to change. That tournament is a money maker.

I wonder if anyone has figured out how many 6u kids wrestle at both 6u state and 8u series. People will travel to whatever and whenever to let there child get recognition

There are a lot of people who travel to three destinations for 8u and still travel to Ottawa for the 6u state. The 6u families spend a lot of money everywhere they go.Almost everybody buys a shirt and whatever they can when there child is six.

It isn't a money issue or lack of mat time issue. There will be a lot more 6u kids who would participate if it was earlier. We started with almost thirty 6u and only took three to 6u state.Most said they would go if there were qualifiers earlier in the year. The season is too long for them to stay for Ottawa.

Plus I would love to go a couple tournaments that ended before noon to get my son a state medal than have him battle for nine matches by 2:30 to get one.

Posted By: bockman Re: 6u State its time - 03/22/11 02:31 AM
only thing i would add is that my son didnt wrestle for the last 2 weeks as i didnt enter him in subs or districts. he practiced for 2 weeks without wrestling and it showed. he really didnt show much interest of even being there as i saw on a ton of other kids at that tournament. could be the week before subs then the ones that can compete at the 8 under can continue on. just my thoughts.
Posted By: wrestle4fun Re: 6u State its time - 03/22/11 02:35 AM
I say keep it the way it is, but have it a couple of weeks earlier. We would have gone again this year, but my son was ready to be done the beginning of the month as it is a long season for the young ones.
Posted By: Southside Falcon Re: 6u State its time - 03/22/11 03:42 AM
I love the 32 and 64 man brackets, it really shows who the studs are, and something to proud of winning. All age divisions should be done this way. If KS has a place to host (topeka, salina, park city, or wichita?), I say cut out subs and districts and lets do a good, ole fashioned, full on, state tournament the last week of February. Cut the HS division since they already have one and add the 6U.

If too big, cut districts and take top 4 from each subdistrict (8 per district) for all 32 man brackets and place top 8. Now this sounds like fun!
Posted By: Purple_Freak Re: 6u State its time - 03/22/11 10:44 AM
How does a 64 man bracket show who the studs are if it is not seeded appropriately?
Posted By: Purple_Freak Re: 6u State its time - 03/22/11 11:07 AM
I am completely in favor of a State sanctioned 6 and under tournament. The majority of clubs agreed last year at the state meeting (just not enough stuck around to vote).

This needs to be revistited and a sound proposal put together to make it happen. There are scheduling, logistic and I am sure a host of other challenges that would need to be worked out but it is not impossible.
Posted By: Magnum811 Re: 6u State its time - 03/22/11 11:45 AM
Jack is from Garden City. 330 miles west of Ottawa.
Posted By: Jack Otero Re: 6u State its time - 03/22/11 09:46 PM
Jerry I am from Garden City on the other side of the state. I don't see a need to hold a series for these little guys unless that series is tied to the existing series. I am one of those parents who took his wrestler to 8u district in Pratt and then 6u state. We did well at both tournaments.

If Ottawa moved their tournament to early January they would make even more money and have double the entries. I coach at Greater Gold and we had 45 6u wrestlers in Nov. I took 3 to this tournament. If we want to promote wrestling at this level move up the state tournament (in whatever venue/series).
Posted By: dad2323 Re: 6u State its time - 03/22/11 11:02 PM
couldn't agree more about the appropriate seeding! My son wrestled kid that got second in ottowa, the week before in hays, we beat him 12-1. ottowa kid received a first round bye and we didn't, even though only lost 3 matches all year coming in?????? wrestled pretty well on sunday and didn't even place through the bottom side of bracket. obviously didn't split the studs up throughout the bracket, instead they just beat up each other all day and several of them did not get rewarded!
Posted By: ReDPloyd Re: 6u State its time - 03/22/11 11:41 PM
It is good that you and your son got this experience early on. The brackets don't always get aligned as they should, some Sub-District and District brackets will be much more unforgiving than others. Some kids will make it to State when others that are much better are sitting at home, and there will be times in high school that it also happens.

I spoke to a dad at Sub-Districts of a very good wrestler that didn't want to wrestle this year (probably U10 or U12). That was always my biggest fear and I am glad that day has never come. Enjoy it while you can, because it could be over tomorrow.
Posted By: dad2323 Re: 6u State its time - 03/22/11 11:51 PM
i couldn't agree more, just a little frusterating to watch him work so hard all year and something like that happened. Hard to explain to a youngster how a kid he beat both times he faced him got to get up on the medal stand and he didn't..... any suggestions would be much appreciated... he is taking it really hard, hope it doesn't discourage him come following years.
Posted By: ReDPloyd Re: 6u State its time - 03/23/11 12:10 AM
Tell him that he had a great year, wrestled his little tail off all year long, and that sometimes things just don't work out how they should or how you would like them to. Let him know it won't be the first time, and it probably won't be the last that he draws the the tougher path. If he really loves the sport, he will continue to wrestle and there will be many proud moments for him along the way. Most importantly, tell him you love him, and that is what really matters.
Posted By: dad2323 Re: 6u State its time - 03/23/11 12:14 AM
Thanks really appreciate the advice Lee. you are so very right about everything you just said!!!
Posted By: ReDPloyd Re: 6u State its time - 03/23/11 12:22 AM
Garrett and I have been through so many years together, through the thick and thin, the ups and the downs, the highs and the lows. We will have memories that we have shared over ten years of wrestling that will last forever. I hope that he has the opportunity to share the same experiences with his son(s) when he is a parent. If he does, he will be better off for it. If he doesn't, he will be better off that he was able to experience it with me.

Good luck to you and your son. I hope that your path is similar to ours, because you will both benefit from the experience and have many great memories shared.
Posted By: jerry davis Re: 6u State its time - 03/23/11 12:24 AM
I agree . I just want to keep it in everyones head so we just don't let it go away.Do it when ever just do it. Earlier the better.
Posted By: doug747 Re: 6u State its time - 03/23/11 12:37 AM
We would have taken many more 6u kids if it were held earlier as well. No doubt there was plenty of tough competition there, but a lot of the good kids didn't go also. It turns into more of a regional thing. Sure there were kids from all over the state, but it seemed to be more NE KS kids than anything. So if we want to have a true 6u state championship, it has to be tied to the other state series, or be early enough that the little guys haven't hung up their shoes for the year.

I can think of 3 kids that kicked my son's a$$ this year, that were NOT at the Ottawa tourney. My guess is that they called it good after the Wichita Classic, or some even earlier than that.

Bottom line is, 6u isn't the biggest thing in the world. But if people are going to complain about how we treat them, they need to do something about it. We'll probably continue to take the 6u kids that are still fired up about wrestling, to the Ottawa tourney. But if there weren't any 6u tourneys after January it wouldn't hurt my feelings either!!

I could tell it was getting close to being enough for my kid, because the week before Ottawa, he only asked me 113 times "when is my tournament?", instead of the standard 300-400 times...He is still more than just a little PO'd that Ottawa didn't give him a medal or a trophy!!
Posted By: elid2 Re: 6u State its time - 03/23/11 12:48 AM
It cannot be tied in with the State Series until USA Wrestling has a 6u age division. My son has wrestled for 7 years and there was the same talk then as there is now. Kids (and parents) are only involved in the 6u debate for a short while then the kids get older and the parents move on...
Posted By: doug747 Re: 6u State its time - 03/23/11 12:53 AM
Yep. KS had the opportunity to tie it into the state series this year, but enough people left the meeting, and didn't vote, that it didn't get the necessary majority needed to pass. Again, I don't care one way or another, but at least now the people screaming to have it can't complain. It was turned down by the people that were patient enough to stick around and vote.

Noone remembers who won 6u state, just who won HS state........

I will say this, and this is a compliment to our coaching around the state: I saw fewer headlocks than I've ever seen at Ottawa. There was a lot more actual wrestling going on than there usually is at Ottawa. Most coaches are realizing that it is easier to teach leg attacks now, versus teaching the headlock and cement mixer, winning the 6u Olympic Gold medal, then 2 years later when their kids start getting their tails kicked, try to go back and teach the leg attacks..............
Posted By: jerry davis Re: 6u State its time - 03/23/11 01:03 AM
Well said Doug . 6u was full of great wrestlers and great parents. I failed to see any parents yell at there kids and for sure didn't see any hateful coaches. I dont want 6u state for recognition I want it for a year end tournament earlier in the year. 6u wrestling is the only sport I have ever been involved in that doesn't have a year ending league event.
Posted By: Jack Otero Re: 6u State its time - 03/23/11 01:29 AM
Change in Kansas happens at a very slow pace. We need to make a decision and go with it and not leave the meeting early! In addition we need leaders at this meeting to challenge folks to stay for the entire meeting. At least announce it. Explain ahead of time the voting criteria. Maybe they did, I didn't represent our club at this meeting.
Posted By: ReDPloyd Re: 6u State its time - 03/23/11 02:19 AM
Many of the parents/coaches on this forum will see their wrestler(s) battle in high school. There will be many others that won't. When your child makes it to the high school level and still wants to compete, then they will have accomplished something special.

A year or two won't make that big of a difference to get their chance to represent the state at Kid's State. If you push them too hard too early, they may not make it to the high school level, and that is what we are setting them up to do. There are exceptions to the rule, and I recognize that. I hope that your wrestler is one of them.
Posted By: Beeson Re: 6u State its time - 03/23/11 11:59 AM
The 6U pay their money. They show up to practice. They compete. They Should be included in the State Tournament Series. Jake is now 10U gonna be 12U next year, so I have no horse in the race, I still think 6U should be included.

It is not our responibility to save wrestlers, parents, and coaches from themselves. If the kid is burned out the parent and coaches should make that judgement, not the state. If they can't see it or want to push their kid, that is their right.

Let the little guys participate in the State Series.
Posted By: ReDPloyd Re: 6u State its time - 03/23/11 11:12 PM
Chad,

There are two ways to look at this, and I won't be affected whether they allow the U6 to wrestle the State series or not. There are a lot of talented, gifted, and very special wrestlers at that age. Whatever the decision is next year or ten years from now, we have to live with what that decision is.

It is too bad that the State hasn't been keeping stats on the wrestlers at the U6 State tournament in Ottawa since it began to see what percentage of those wrestlers are still wrestling today. That might shed a little more light on whether or not it is a good idea for these young wrestlers to be competing this deep into the season. If the percentage was good, let them go at it. If it was low, then we should let them wait another year or two.
Posted By: doug747 Re: 6u State its time - 03/24/11 12:52 AM
I don't think we should "tell" anyone how long they can keep wrestling. Some kids are ready to go at a younger age. And we have to make sure we aren't "making things fair" by holding back those types of kids.
Posted By: ReDPloyd Re: 6u State its time - 03/24/11 01:14 AM
I agree Doug. There are those diamonds in the rough, and there are many more today than when you and I were wrestling. I applaud them, I am awed by them, and I hope that they will be the collegiate and Olympic champions of our future. I just think that the short term goal is to get as many of these wrestlers to compete at the high school level, because a majority of them won't wrestle beyond that.
Posted By: jerry davis Re: 6u State its time - 03/24/11 02:26 AM
The bottom line is that everyone should be treated the same. If they are allowed to wrestle the whole year they should have a final tournament.To me it is discrimination against age. Who cares if they wrestle high school or the Olympics. Those who have the determination an will to wrestle will have the rights to wrestle however long they want to no matter how long they have wrestled.

Like I said they have the right to be treated the same as everyone else.

If you don't think so then at the end of baseball tell your son or daughter that they cant play in the final tournament because they are six and see what they have to say.May not play in high school.

Everyone in wrestling hates basketball but at least the six year olds are allowed to participated in league championships.

First and second grade flag football had final tournament . Maybe we should take it away from them so we can have football players in high school and NFL.

Come on we are lazy and don't want to give them the attention they deserve.

Maybe the next Olympian quit because he had to wrestle a 64 man bracket when he was six and didn't want to wrestle when he was seven. COME ON .

I have heard people say for years that we do this for the kids. Well then do it for the kids.
Posted By: smokeycabin Re: 6u State its time - 03/24/11 08:57 AM
Please name all the 6 & under organizations in Kansas that sponsor a STATE tournament series with qualifiers for all the sports. Baseball, Football, BB Ball, Soccer, Track, Golf, Tennis, etc. - Most of them don't. They are developing kids in their organizations and teaching them the skills, basics, sportsmanship, discipline and other fundamentals of each activity. For the long term health (mental and physical) of the kids in youth activities - I am not convinced that teaching them that the sport is about awards and standing on the podium at 6 years old. Their time is just around the corner as we prepare them for life long lessons.
Posted By: ReDPloyd Re: 6u State its time - 03/24/11 09:37 AM
Originally Posted By: jerry davis
Who cares if they wrestle high school or the Olympics.

I am sure that you didn't really mean this. The long term goal should be to keep them involved all the way through high school. For those that are good enough, on to college and ultimately the Olympics.
Posted By: HEADUP Re: 6u State its time - 03/24/11 10:26 AM
we had about 10 6u kids this year who were pretty good. 3 of them burned out begore subs. 7 of them competed in subs. 0 qualified for districts. 7 competed at 6u state. 1 state champ, 1 fell victim to the big bracket (he lost to 2nd and 3rd placers, has pinned the 5th and 6th all year), 1 went two and bbq, the other 4 won a couple of matches each.

there is a wide range of wrestlers, and records. one coach/dad blamed burn out for his son's finish at state. my son was an early burn out, we didn't compete the week prior to subs! some of these kids wreslted at tulsa, and liberty. some of them never left SEK. some wrestled novice all year, and weren't ready for the big time. 10 different kids = 10 different finishes.

my point here is this, it is my responsibility, as a coach, to work with the parents, to make sure these kids wrestle in high school. i think we made the right decision on every kid. i don't think there is one blanket rule that can cover 10 different kids.

i believe that the 6u should be rewarded with a state series. i believe that ottawa has done a great job, when the state turned it's back, and given the kids something awesome. as for burnout i believe that the natural selection of a state series would handle the burnout, just fine.

the one tournament concept is too big, too overwhelming, much tougher, than a series. imagine you are 6 years old, new to wrestling, don't understand how to read a bracket, have only wrestled in round robins, and BAM here's your name on a 64 man bracket!!

my son understands brackets pretty well, but when i told him that his best buddy was in a 64 man bracket, he said "i hope it's not a round robin, poor Gabe!"

Posted By: Wrestlerspappy Re: 6u State its time - 03/24/11 04:17 PM
my son is a first year wrestler and he wrestled in the 6u state. he won 2 matches then lost his next two. it was hard for me to explain to him that he was in a 64 man bracket and that he would have had to win 6 matches in a row or 8 or more matches total to get a medal. he was upset and hopefully it doesnt discourage him next year. if i would have thought about it i would have just sat him out this year but he loves to wreslte and wants to be in any tournament that he can so i let him give it a try.
Posted By: Hovisdad Re: 6u State its time - 03/24/11 11:38 PM
I have to say we have enjoyed the 6u at Ottawa. We have been for the past three years. Was our oldest boys last year at 6u and he placed. Had a good size bracket too. Was our youngest 1st year. He got beat out and he has wanted to go back ever since then. And finally this year he got a medal.
I don't think I would change the experience for him for anything. I let him wrestle when he wants. He wanted to wrestle 8u at subs, and he qualified. He wanted to wrestle at District, and he placed. Now he wants to wrestle at state. I think it is something that can only be offered to the little guys. Because 6 and under state is so much different than a regular tourney or qualifying match.
We should keep it like it is.
Keep up the good work at Ottawa.
Posted By: Paratroop Re: 6u State its time - 03/25/11 02:58 AM
My boy is 14, headed to HS next year, and the 64 and 32 man brackets he's wrestled in the last 2 years, were just tough. Wrestling numerous matches one after another. I know he has Fargo and such to look forward too, but I know it was a grind. I just can't imagine putting a 6u wrestler through that. I'd say the state has to put some type of control on the 6u wrestlers with a state series, or we lose lots of good wrestlers who would have been monsters in HS. Not only at the state, but also the national level.
Posted By: badbo Re: 6u State its time - 03/25/11 01:25 PM
I will say two points on this topic. One is what I believe is right and one is my personal opinion.

First, If parents want their kids to compete at the state level at 5 and 6 years old that is their right. They pay their money like everyone else. The governing body has decided that is not what they want because I believe they are trying to "protect". They believe they are trying to protect these kids. But the reality is people will find a way if they want to do something as is the case here. This is proven by the Ottawa "state 6u championships". The challenge is that the Ottawa tournament although well intended and very well done is now more grueling than what the governing body was trying to protect kids from. 64 man brackets in one day for a 5/6 year old. Wow. That said if that is what people want they should have that right. They pay the same money as anyone else. They should get the same rights.

Now my personal opinion. I don't care how much little Johnny loves wrestles and as parents we think we need to let him have more. Wrestling that much at that young of age does nothing except provide a much greater chance of later burn out. I have no doubt many of these kids love it at 5 or 6. But the goal is to get them to love it at 14, 16, 18 and 20. I will also tell you that kids that are the studs at 5/6 have very little if any advantage over kids that are allowed to really go at say 7-9. By the time they are 12 or even delivered to HS at 14, you won't be able to tell who was allowed to wrestle 40-50 matches at 5 and who was at 9 except many of the 5/6 studs are no longer wreslting. In many cases the kids started just a little later are better by HS. They are still hungry and learn better technique. I understand every case is different. In my case my son started at 5 and wrestled one night a week and 3 tournaments. He has no clue if he won or lost. He was playing a game. He did the same at 6. He got thumped by the kids the same type of kids that were winning the 6u state championships now. He was still getting thumped by them at 7 but starting to make some gains. We turned him loose when he was 8 and he was national champion by 9. It's all a gamble to know when is the right age to let them wrestle "all they want" and "go longer" to special training, etc. It's different for every kid. I can't tell you what is right for your kids, but I will caution don't let your passion as parents cloud the long term vision. My kid would eat 100 pieces of chocolate until he pucked at 5/6 if I let him. He loved it. But that doesn't mean I let him do it. I applaud all the parents that put in the time to haul your kids and invest in their time. I just caution to wait a year or two before you put them in high pressure situations and 64 man brackets. let them wrestle and play at 5/6. I would suggest 10-15 matches MAX. It will pay off down the road.

But I will re-iterate. It's your choice and you should have that right. Just be careful. Love wrestling and it's families. Good luck and sorry to be so long winded.
Posted By: Paratroop Re: 6u State its time - 03/27/11 12:22 AM
Badbo, I wish I could "like" your post. Solid!
Posted By: usawks1 Re: 6u State its time - 03/27/11 02:54 AM
Stellar post by badbo ... "My kid would eat 100 pieces of chocolate until he pucked at 5/6 if I let him. He loved it. But that doesn't mean I let him do it."
Posted By: ReDPloyd Re: 6u State its time - 03/27/11 09:30 AM
"Now my personal opinion. I don't care how much little Johnny loves wrestles and as parents we think we need to let him have more. Wrestling that much at that young of age does nothing except provide a much greater chance of later burn out. I have no doubt many of these kids love it at 5 or 6. But the goal is to get them to love it at 14, 16, 18 and 20."

badbo,

I share your personal opinion.
Posted By: nix Re: 6u State its time - 03/27/11 03:47 PM
i don't think the kid would have pucked after 100 pieces of cake he might have puked but not pucked. - lol i know it was just a typo.
Posted By: jerry davis Re: 6u State its time - 03/27/11 11:53 PM
The bad part about not doing it because of burn out is that you still let them wrestle 8u. So they wrestle a 64 man bracket and the state series. That doesn't make any sense. Then after state they do more nationals. Treat them the same. If they are too young for State then they are too young to give everyone their entry money and concession money throughout the year.TREAT THEM THE SAME.

Parents with bad attitudes burn out kids, not a lot of matches.
It is all in how you handle your child or children. If you give them negative thoughts that is all they will have. If your chid wants to wrestle twice a season or 200 always give them positive feedback. Of course that doesn't mean baby them,but if you screamed at me all the time I wouldn't like wrestling and I would get burnt out. Each kid is different just give them the choice.
Posted By: badbo Re: 6u State its time - 03/28/11 03:28 PM
Just pick when you want your kid to peak. Because one in 10,000 will be a stud at 6 and still at 16. I agree with choice, but I don't believe ANY 5-6 year old can handle 50-100 matches a year that some are doing now and not lose the "passion" by the time they are 16-18. I get all the "not my kid stuff", and maybe I am wrong, but "My kid" was "that kid". And he was not turned loose until 8 not 5/6. Looking back I wish I would have let him go at 10-11.

I am just trying provide some perspective that I am not sure I even would have listened to at that time.

Here is my advise. Get with someone you trust in wrestling. Put together a plan of gains your kid needs to make to jump to each age group. There are clear differences in what wins at 6, 8, 10, 12, 14 and HS. Even more at you look to college. Focus on those goals and how to accomplish them and still have balance and FUN and the titles will come if they are meant to be.

As a parent of a kid who has won 20 state titles, has lost one match at a state tournament since he was 9 years old, has placed AA at 22 different national tournaments, and won 6 of them...We are now looking for ways for him to treat wrestling like he did when he was 5/6. Be careful what you create and wish for.

JMO I am done with this topic. Tell me to stick it if you want. Just trying to save people from their own ambition. Wrestling has changed our families lives in a great way. I just wish I had listened when I had a young one.

Thanks!
Posted By: ReDPloyd Re: 6u State its time - 03/29/11 12:59 AM
The wisdom in badbo's post is probably deeper than many overzealous parents of an exceptional/elite U6 wrestler can comprehend. I might be reading too much into the message that is being delivered, but if it is how I am reading it, I am sorry.
Posted By: jerry davis Re: 6u State its time - 03/29/11 01:34 AM
I don't want to let my son wrestle a hundred times a year and I too think that a lot of people stress their child too hard.I haven't said anything about wrestling every tournament that we can and do State also. This was my sons last year at 6u. Everyone asked why I didn't put him in 8u State. A lot of people questioned why I didn't put him in a lot of big tournaments.I believe we can burn them out. I just want them to have the chance if they want it.

My son wanted to go to 8u state and he wants to go to Brute and sunflower games and go to freestyle, but I want him to be hungry for next year.So I am setting him out. JUST TREAT THEM THE SAME.

If everyone is worried about burning them out, do you really think one tournament will burn them out. No it is the constant stress that burns them out.

Randy says it best in his Bronze class. Let them wrestle 3 on one off. And if your high school is wrestling, take practice off and watch them. One practice won't hurt them. We did that after the bronze class and my son loved it.

Not letting them wrestle the biggest weekend of the year isn't the only solution to burn outs.TREAT THEM THE SAME.
Posted By: ReDPloyd Re: 6u State its time - 03/29/11 01:47 AM
Jerry,

There will be many "biggest weekend of the year" if they continue to wrestle. The biggest weekend of the year at a young age pales in comparison to the biggest weekend of the year in high school, college, or beyond. Get that young man to these weekends and your combined satisfaction will be greater than anything either one of you could have hoped for.
Posted By: doug747 Re: 6u State its time - 03/29/11 01:49 AM
When you are talking about burning them out: I personally believe that if a kid sees themself getting better, they will stay interested. We have to keep drilling the right techniques with them, and keep them heading in the right direction. Kids that are killers at 6 and 8, tearing people up with headlocks and snakes, are going to be caught, passed, and probably quit. Just my two cents worth. I think as long as a kid is asking about practice and tourneys, let him wrestle. I did cut mine off when he only asked about wrestling 10 times per day, instead of the normal 20. Now, after watching big brother at Topeka, he is asking about going with Big Bro to wrestle at Brute. I had to break it to him that there is not a Story Hour 43 lb class.............
Posted By: ReDPloyd Re: 6u State its time - 03/29/11 02:15 AM
Doug,

There must be something in your genes that I don't have. Do you wear Levi or Wrangler? Whatever you wear, it must be the right brand because your boys just keep on grappling. So far I have had three on the mat with one yet to come, if he wants to. Only one has lasted the test of time up to this point, one only lasted three years, and the other after three years is a toss up. This sport is not for everyone, and it is nothing to be ashamed of because they can excel in other sports.

By the way, the Brawlers are an incredible club. I am sure that there are some people that wish many of them would burn out.
Posted By: doug747 Re: 6u State its time - 03/29/11 02:33 AM
I wear whatever carpenter jeans I can find for less than $20!! Damned Alco store closed here in town, and they used to have some good heavy duty ones for $15!! Must have closed because tight asses like me wouldn't pay more than $15 for jeans......

I only have two boys, brother Dal has 4 of them. None of them have a choice!!!!

ANY kid that has ba))s enough to step on the mat has my respect. We just have to keep them out. Making them better is the best way. Letting them quit, when they haven't put in the work necessary to reap the benefits, should not be an option. As kids, it would be easier to quit the sport, rather than take a few years of a$$whippings. As parents, it would be easier (and a hell of a lot cheaper) to let the kid quit the first time he said he didn't like it. Remember, anything worth having, isn't easy.

You could probably talk to plenty of people that will tell you that my attitude toward my 5 yr old that just started, is completely different than the attitude that I had when I started Levi. Owen likes it, I had to tell Levi that he liked it!! haha

There are different paths for different kids. We'll see if being more laid back with Owen works for him. If it doesn't show signs of working, I'll have to ratchet up the heat!

As an example for everyone on here, Coach Jeff Jordan didn't allow his son Micah to start going to tourneys til he was at least 8. I believe his boy Rocky is just now starting to get turned loose at tourneys, and I think he is 8 or so. I can't recall what age Bo was when he started, but I think it was about the same. Bo is a total stud, Micah is as well. Bet ya Rocky turns out to be a stud also........

Posted By: ReDPloyd Re: 6u State its time - 03/29/11 02:48 AM
I wrestled Dal once in high school. I really can't remember who won, but I am pretty sure it wasn't me. My son wrestled Dylan last year and I can't remember who won, but I am pretty sure it wasn't my son. My memory is not very good these days, so my son and I could have won both matches.
Posted By: Cokeley Re: 6u State its time - 03/29/11 03:05 AM
One thing I would like to point out right way. Did any of you who want 6U added to the current state series happen to look around the Expo Center Saturday morning? Where in the heck are we going to put them? You are talking about 200 more kids and the accompanying relatives. NO WAY will it work. I am going to keep pushing and pushing to shorten the season for 6, 8, and 10 divisions until we make it happen. They should be done mid February. I agree with everything Badbo says. I hope that most of you have the goal of having your kids win HS state. Winning 6U State isn't going to get you closer to that goal.
Posted By: doug747 Re: 6u State its time - 03/29/11 03:06 AM
You should have wrestled me, then you probably would have won..........
Posted By: Paratroop Re: 6u State its time - 03/29/11 04:34 AM
Originally Posted By: Cokeley
One thing I would like to point out right way. Did any of you who want 6U added to the current state series happen to look around the Expo Center Saturday morning? Where in the heck are we going to put them? You are talking about 200 more kids and the accompanying relatives. NO WAY will it work. I am going to keep pushing and pushing to shorten the season for 6, 8, and 10 divisions until we make it happen.


I was thinking the same thing, especially after reading Badbo's post last week. My other thought was if they made it similar to Brute nationals. Basically adding a day making it a 3 day tourney, splitting up wrestlers in 2 groups each wrestling 2 days, with different weigh ins and different wrestling days, with finals on the last day. Tough do though, lots more money spent for families and not good during these times.

I do like the idea of shortening the season. We wrestled junior high, took time off during kids, but still wrestled some of the major national tourneys, and ended kids with 68 matches. Still have MS duals. Looking forward to see how it will go next year for the boy in HS, less matches but more practice time. From what I've seen from other HS wrestlers this week at kids, lots of them seemed to have improved greatly after their first HS season.
Posted By: ReDPloyd Re: 6u State its time - 03/29/11 09:42 AM
Originally Posted By: doug747
You should have wrestled me, then you probably would have won..........

Sure Doug, try to make me feel better now. Where were you when I needed you (and not your brother) back in the early '80s?
Posted By: jule Re: 6u State its time - 03/29/11 10:26 AM
badbo is so right. You can burn them out but some of these guys won't listen. They will ask their son you want go right and they will say yes to make Dad happy. I can hear the guys going "Oh! not my son I know what he is thinking." No you don't you may think you do. YOu be the one that makes them take a weekend off just to be a kid. My oldest wrestled every weekend of the season from the time he was 5.This was in the 90's when there were fewer tournaments. When he was a freshman in HS he said enough. Wrestled again when he was a senior on his terms in his way. He still loves the sport but I wonder if we had slowed him down what would have happened.
Posted By: in it to win it Re: 6u State its time - 03/29/11 01:37 PM
I really like badbo's perspective & hope reader's can absorb his message. We are on #2 son (13 years apart) the older wrestled in college...didn't start till 1st grade during those days very few novice tournaments and everyone entered in your weight was in the bracket (ONLY the top 4 kids picked up medals)...btw, $8.00 entry fee in the mid 90's. Played a little BB while wrestling & had to wrestle with a lil "peer pressure" in that realm.

Little 1 comes along with a dream to be "Bigger, Faster, Stronger, Better than Brother". Did not enter into districts until 8 & U, did compete in the large man, average bell curve, standard boy size & several of his friends he met in Ottawa are still wrestling. Quite a few have left the sport & are 10! Took some time off when yeah sure he should have been practicing for subs to watch LCC's MO-KAN classic this year. Picks his summer, picks his weight, doesn't "watch the scale". Places well on podium.

I see burn-out in kids from ("eating next to nothing--dieting"), parents unhappy that the kid didn't WIN or should've done better, when they placed or gave it their all & if you can't simply ask them if they did the best they could? zip the lip parents & that your proud of giving it all that they could. You might after awhile ask them how it felt and if they didn't like how they felt losing then do you know what you need to work on? They & their coaches generally do. I see tantrums --- throwing their ankle band, throwing their head gear, etc .....WAY TOO MUCH.....who really is teaching & allowing this poor sportsmanship?

All in all the kids @ 6 & U are rookies, beginners learning the sport. Several big named coach's across the country including Jordan, Mayabb, Haggerty, Chertow would encourage a later start for most and involve the kids with flexibility...gymnastics esp. coming from Coach Mayabb (Staley H.S.) and OTC Jr. Nat'l team Greco coach. This is one of the HARDEST sports and Wrestling IS TRAINING for the rest of their Lives.

Perhaps adding Rookie division on Friday might be the answer for the 6 & U's with a qualifier for them @ District's...this is still going to make their season L-O-N-G. Shortening to the week of HS Regionals or State in mid to late Feb. isn't the answer.
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