should a kid that is not enrolled in high school be able to wrestle the high school division?
I have mixed feelings on this one. Homeschooled kids yes. Drop outs are a touchy subject. If they dropped out and are trouble makers that are not really going anywhere I don't like it. If they have other issues and dropped out but wrestling is something that is keeping them out of trouble, I'm all for it. To cover everyone, I think they should be allowed to enter. I think it does more good than harm to allow them in.
If you have a "red shirt" 8th grader you don't have a choice. There are some 8th graders that turned 15 before September 1.
I agree with Beeson that there is a grey line on if someone that is not enrolled in school (home schooled, private school, public school) should be able to participate in the HS division. But where do you draw the line. I think this goes into the club making the right choice. If the kid is appopriate for thier club, and is in good standings with the club I say let him in. Wrestling may be the only positive this youth has in life.
How do we know that any of them are enrolled in school?
luv2wrestle2- Are we talking about kids wrestling up from 14s or HS age kids not currently enrolled?
Publius- Are you suggesting we need to check everyone?
we're talking about kids that should be 9th graders that are not currently enrolled.
Publius- Are you suggesting we need to check everyone?
Absolutely not! Just thinking out loud... is enrollment status tracked at all? Common sense would say yes, but do the bylaws state enrollment is required to participate?
The importance of a high school and/or a college degree should be strongly encouraged. That will open many more doors for all student/athletes.
Is there a problem with the existing format? Is someone needing a SPECIFIC answer or are we going to be trying to drum up another paragraph or page of blah-blah-blah in the Bylaws that really adds ZERO value, a change that doesn't work towards improving anything...
I value the feedback of anyone on this forum but it spears that maybe we are just skirting around someone's specific problem.
If you have a "red shirt" 8th grader you don't have a choice. There are some 8th graders that turned 15 before September 1.
Maybe they shouldn't have "red shirted". Life is full of choices and if they chose to "red shirt" they now have to deal with the results of those choices.
Don't some states have repercussions if your red-shirting 8th grade for only athletic purposes rather than academic?
Well, I kept from posting on this because I thought it was going to be handled properly. The wrestler in question is Mason Turner from District 1. I don't like how this was handled for several reasons. 1. He is from District One wrestling in District Two. I guess next year I'll just grab a couple of guys from Newkirk Oklahoma and Ponca City and put them on the Ark City team. 2. I am disappointed in the Young Guns for taking him on so late in the season. I would like to know if he even had one practice in your room. Tainted Gold may still be Gold I guess. 3. Either the rules were broken allowing an 8th grader to participate in the High School Division or Mason just lost his red shirt year. To say I am disappointed and feel betrayed is a severe understatement.
Is there a rule stating you must live in the district you wrestle? There is a rule that states you can't wrestle up an age group unless you are 6u. If mason wrestled high school and he is in 8 the grade he broke a rule. It should be handled. If my son wrestled 12u it would be forced to change.
3. Either the rules were broken allowing an 8th grader to participate in the High School Division or Mason just lost his red shirt year.
I thought you were allowed to wrestle up at any tournament including State. Is that not correct?
This post really doesn't matter because the kid in question is a homeschooled freshman. No rule broken.
You cannot wrestle up an age division at the State Tournament. This came up a couple of years ago when some kids were to big for the heavy weight division. The parents wanted to just bump them up an age division but were unable to. The only way to bump an age division is for a High School wrestler who is in the 14U division to enter in the High School division. The wrestler must be in High School to be able to do this.
So he will be a sophomore next year. Right?or will he be back in school as a freshmen? Kinda sketchy
As an old coach if we can help a kid and give the kid a good structured atmosphere then let the kid wrestle if the kid ends up being a trouble maker simply ask them to leave Lets keep wrestling alive and numbers up I have coached a few kids that were troubled kids and it changed their lives Don't know what kid who is trying to wrestle high school and not enrolled but I feel every kid needs a chance.Wrestling makes leaders and installs dicipline
As for the home school thing....we homeschooled a couple years ago for a semester due to a move and in order to re-enroll in a public school we just had to test in order to determine what grade we were in. You also have to factor in whether or not the accepting school will take the credits you have received in the homeschool. So it really depends on several factors whether this kid in question would be a freshmen or a sophmore next year. I don't think it is sketchy at all....it sounds like personal business with this kid. I know it is a very messy process to count credits, etc. If he does indeed have to repeat his freshman year so what. Are we going to go through and check to see how many other kids are passing or failing? Are we going to require grade card checks? I know there are lots of kids that end up having to repeat a grade. We are crossing the line here, I believe. The kid is a homeschooled freshman wrestling high school division...Where is the problem?
The only answers to the objective questions can come from the parents of the Mason's. As a potential D1 Athlete who is collecting many national events attendance would be a problem if entered in public/private schooling. Mason is not a child that is academically of "troubled" as a student.
Whether Young Guns & Mason's decision was deemed necessary to collect another title tests INTEGRITY which all Young Guns team members have been exposed to.
Questionable issues have been identified in terms of making weight/weighing in for Liberty Nationals 2014. No wt. marks for 14u & HS div.s on arm.
The validity & substantive curriculum will be HIGHLY reviewed by the NCAA Clearing House if opting to go D1.
I wish the kid all the best. But WHO has the best interest in developing the athlete? (Recalling the illegal parents of Henry Cejudo).
KS would be one of the few States that would allow this mud to cook!
Recalling Zain Retherford's (Penn State Fr.) Jr. Year which deemed him ineligible by switching schools.
Just my $0.05.
Here's a question that I was asked yesterday at district that I didn't have the answer for regarding high school division. How is there a 100 pound weight class when no such weight class exists in high school? Can anyone enlighten me?
As for the home school thing....we homeschooled a couple years ago for a semester due to a move and in order to re-enroll in a public school we just had to test in order to determine what grade we were in. You also have to factor in whether or not the accepting school will take the credits you have received in the homeschool. So it really depends on several factors whether this kid in question would be a freshmen or a sophmore next year. I don't think it is sketchy at all....it sounds like personal business with this kid. I know it is a very messy process to count credits, etc. If he does indeed have to repeat his freshman year so what. Are we going to go through and check to see how many other kids are passing or failing? Are we going to require grade card checks? I know there are lots of kids that end up having to repeat a grade. We are crossing the line here, I believe. The kid is a homeschooled freshman wrestling high school division...Where is the problem?
I'm glad you asked that question. Take a look at Mason's profile on Trackwrestling. It looks like he was an 8th grader on 11-03-13 at PreSeason Nationals and again on 12-15-13 at the Virginia Middle School Duals. So just Three months ago he was an 8th grader, now we are to believe that he is in High School.
This is not a kid problem, this is a parent problem.
How many kids wrestle middle school 1st semester and high school 2nd semester? Hmmmm Shady
Tournaments say, "what grade are you in?" Kansas says, "what age are you?" You can wrestle 8th grade as long as that's your classification. BUT, if you are 15, you can't wrestle 14u. Your only choice is HS. Why is this, a BIG deal? I know kids who wrestle their age all year, but go to Brute, and are in a grade lower than their age. Why is everyone crying over this? It's 1 kid who wants to wrestle. Pick your battles carefully.
The fact is if he was 106 lbs or more he would of been in high school. Since he wasn't dad kept him out thinking it wouldn't get noticed. I'm sure he will be a freshman next year. Maybe at Goddard. Since they have a great team in the making.
Tournaments say, "what grade are you in?" Kansas says, "what age are you?" You can wrestle 8th grade as long as that's your classification. BUT, if you are 15, you can't wrestle 14u. Your only choice is HS. Why is this, a BIG deal? I know kids who wrestle their age all year, but go to Brute, and are in a grade lower than their age. Why is everyone crying over this? It's 1 kid who wants to wrestle. Pick your battles carefully.
The kid's age qualifies him for the 14U division. High School Division is not his only option.
This battle is worth fighting for several reason's.
1. Allowing kids to jump districts opens it up to kids entering in a different district each year to get on "the right side of the bracket."
2. Allowing kids to jump districts will take away opportunity for the kids of that District. Yes, there was only three kids in the weight, but it sets a standard. Next time 3 kids may come in from another District, get into an eight man bracket and knock out 3 kids from the home District.
3. The parents of this child are stating he is in one division one weekend, then another the following weekend. They pick and choose his grade to help their cause. There are a lot of shady things going on here.
This does not effect my kid in any way. This doesn't effect any kids this year, but it could next year. I am just trying to stop it before it get's really ugly. We need to do the right thing for interest of the kids.
And for the record, Brute does not count as a "real" National Tournament.
If you have so many great ideas why don’t you sit on the board and fix the problems? Or do you just prefer to be a complainer with no type of action?
And you are who? We all know who I am. I have already stated that I plan on being on the board next year to try and fix the problems. What are you doing? Call me if you would like.
I don’t think you’re capable of making any rational decisions that would benefit kids wrestling. After reading some of your post on here I think you’re trying to be more of a dictator and control everything. I know I won’t vote for you.
Why does brute not count? Can't wait for the answer from the elitist. Clue... never ask a question you don't already know the answer to. Careful snobs... don't want to hurt your feelings. Oh wait, yes I do.
I don’t think you’re capable of making any rational decisions that would benefit kids wrestling. After reading some of your post on here I think you’re trying to be more of a dictator and control everything. I know I won’t vote for you.
Votes from nameless people matter nothing.
Maybe while you are on the board you can change it to where people have to state their name on this forum. Can't stand people acting all brave with no name.
It's just Beesons way of trying to impose his will on kids wrestling.
Why does brute not count? Can't wait for the answer from the elitist. Clue... never ask a question you don't already know the answer to. Careful snobs... don't want to hurt your feelings. Oh wait, yes I do.
bump
Maybe while you are on the board you can change it to where people have to state their name on this forum. Can't stand people acting all brave with no name.
Jerry, that is already a rule when you become a member of the forum. Some people either don't know it, or they choose to ignore it.
Why does brute not count? Can't wait for the answer from the elitist. Clue... never ask a question you don't already know the answer to. Careful snobs... don't want to hurt your feelings. Oh wait, yes I do.
bump
90 percent of the time don't agree with beeson but he states his name.
Ok, I give. Last year freshman 120. Tulsa National championship got curb stomped at brute.if brute isn't a national tournament then neither is Tulsa. Dudes....... it depends on the bracket. Quit with the opinions making them out as facts.
Patrick, Did you not see the

at the end of that statement?
This cracks me up. Why is is it only 1 person with an issue on this? Not 1 other district has an issue with it. As far as I've seen. 100lb HS, really? Isn't even a 100lb. Division in HS. Quit your crying and move on.
I can't help but mention that one of the best wrestling states in the nation Pennsylvania makes all of this impossible to be an issue.
1. Must wrestle for the schools wrestling program in which you attend and or reside, if no such program exists you may wrestle for the next closest program in proximity.
2.Age based series 8u 10u 12u and now this year jr. High. 7, 8 ,9 as long as you were not on a varsity roster.
3.8th grade red shirts were allowed to compete in state series without losing high school eligibility.
I know there are clubs in ks that are not affiliated with a school directly but we have those here. You will not see a kid in any pa state tournament registered as Young Guns or Pitt Bull they can practice with them all year but at state series they are signed up with there school.
Mike Pirl
Patrick, Did you not see the

at the end of that statement?
does not count as a real national tournament. Yep read it Chad. Why are Pennsylvania and Minnesota never at these "real national tournaments"??? Must be from a different country. Or maybe they get same or better competition at a local open tourny. Glass houses......
This cracks me up. Why is is it only 1 person with an issue on this? Not 1 other district has an issue with it. As far as I've seen. 100lb HS, really? Isn't even a 100lb. Division in HS. Quit your crying and move on.
I may be the only one "crying" but I'm not the only one concerned. I have had numerous emails, phone calls, private messages, and personal conversations with clubs from D1, D2, and D4. Most of my information comes from these other clubs and Districts. Those that would like me to stop are either from the host club(you) or from nameless posters that have fewer than 10 posts. I would assume these are new profiles made up so they cannot be tracked.
I am not in the minority on this one.
The reason pa is not represented well at this nationals is because most of the top level guys are wrestling duals on teams. We have and go to duals just about every weekend all over the east coast. The decision to spend money on a tourney that may or may not have a big bracket or go to duals and get guaranteed 5 matches is a no brainer out here on the east coast.
Mike Pirl
The reason pa is not represented well at this nationals is because most of the top level guys are wrestling duals on teams. We have and go to duals just about every weekend all over the east coast. The decision to spend money on a tourney that may or may not have a big bracket or go to duals and get guaranteed 5 matches is a no brainer out here on the east coast.
Mike Pirl
exactly. So what is a National tournament if the best kids in the COUNTRY are not there?? These are all regional tournaments with a few from either coasts sprinkled in. Again, depending on the bracket. Brute might be every bit as tough as Tulsa, Reno or JOC. What it boils down to is daddy's wallet nationals. Some of the best kids in the world are priced out of any of these tournys. Look at the national dual results EVERY year for proof. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to crack this code!
How many D1 champions from last night ever won a prestigious event that you snobs call a national championship as a youth?? Now how many wrestlers lost last night at the NCAA that won one of your specified national championships? Case closed. Go to the tournys that you can afford and have fun!!!! Then get on these forums to talk trash to have fun. Work in the middle to afford wrestling.
David Taylor beat Kyle Dake at Tulsa Nationals. That sounds like a tough bracket Patrick.
Mike Furches talked to me about that match 2 years ago. Any others? Surely there's more. Obviously about past years since that's what you offer. The point Chad is if all you have is what a great wrestler that has graduated College and another that wrestled his last collegiate match last night is what you have to defend these "allowed national tournaments" your on thin ice to say the least. Kyle Dake and David Taylor wrestled in these tournaments several years ago means they hold more weight then another tournament? ?Did you hear what the commentator said about Taylor not being tough enough so he sent him to train with the Sandersons??? How many of us can afford that. Again its daddy's wallet nationals.
You asked for an example from last night and that is what I provided. Tyler Caldwell took 3rd at Tulsa as well.
I agree with you that it is hard to say how tough these tournaments are since it does have a lot to do with if kids can afford to attend these tournaments or not.
With your last question though it sounds as if you are saying that you need money to place at the NCAA's. I don't think the NCAA's can really be called Daddy's Wallet Nationals.
BTW...You officially Hi-Jacked my thread, and I helped. Dammit.
Patrick, I agree completely with daddy's wallet nationals. I used to take logan to Tulsa when we lived in Goddard but now it's just way too much cost to come from Pa. Heck we have developed a club here that is free to all that want to come to try and combat the costs of wrestling that have gotten out of hand. Clubs here charge 100 or so a month and most people can't afford it. Wrestling should be available to any kid that wants to do regardless of daddy's wallet.
Ncaas might not be a daddy's wallet tournament but if things keep going the way they are and everyone keeps raising their costs 5 10 15 dollars here and there it will turn into the product of daddy's wallet tournament.
Oh and as for daddy's wallet tournament, anyone planning on going to flonationals in Indiana pa better bring daddy's and grandaddys wallet. We are going cause we live 30 minutes away but 54 to enter 40 to get in as a spectator or coach. WOW
What is the toughest folkstlye tournament in the nation? Is it folkstyle nationals in Iowa? Tulsa? Reno? Liberty? I am sure it varies from year to year and weight by weight? But year in and year out which is toughest?