Kansas Wrestling
At the 2015 State Body Meeting it was announced that an Ad Hoc Committee would be formed to look at the current state series. Any individual that showed an interest was included in the committee. The Committee met five times over the next year and a half. During that time period two surveys were sent to the membership requesting input. The first survey had a low response rate and an effort to get more accurate email addresses from the membership was undertaken. A second survey was then sent out to the membership and a response rate of about 20% was returned.

On February 26 the Committee held a meeting in conjunction with the 6U/Elementary State Tournament in Salina. The purpose of the meeting was to make recommendations for the USAW-Kansas Executive Board to consider. Any recommendation adopted by the Executive Board must then be approved by the State Body at the annual meeting.

Those present at the Ad Hoc Committee Meeting were: Chad Beeson, Daniel Reiling, Doug Eck, Jeremy Sckavac, Jonathan Whisnant, Mark Stanley, Richard Salyer, Tracy Peterson, Will Cokeley, Matt Treaster, Zach Campbell, and James Bilby. Individual members came and went from the meeting as needed, and not all members were able to vote on each recommendation.

The committee determined the primary goal was to add growth to the sport and to increase participation in our state series. The committee then came up with a series of recommendations to be considered by the Board that would facilitate that growth. Below are those recommendations and the vote of the committee.

Recommendations:
1. Split the USAW-KS Kids State Tournament (10-2)
2. Age divisions of the first state tournament would be 6U/8U/10U (8-3)
3. Hold the first state tournament the week before high school regionals and the district qualifier for that tournament the week before that. (8-2)
4. Hold the second state tournament with 12U/14U/HS Division the second weekend of March with the district qualifier the first weekend in March (9-0-1)
5. Allow the top 6 placers at each district qualifier to advance to the corresponding state tournament. (9-0-1)
6. Keep District boundaries as currently in place. (9-0)

Matt Treaster
Folkstyle Director
Sounds good start the tournaments earlier for Folkstyle allowing more time for Freestyle and Greco at the same time. Get us in-line with the states around us. I don't like the Split State but as long as it allows for more Freestyle/Greco I'm good.
Sounds good start the tournaments earlier for Folkstyle allowing more time for Freestyle and Greco at the same time. Get us in-line with the states around us. I don't like the Split State but as long as it allows for more Freestyle/Greco I'm good.
These are just recommendations? I have said it before. You can't force kids into Greco/Freestyle. I have worked on my own son for year's he still has no interest in either. Also by stopping folkstyle so early...our family will never be able to compete in Folkstyle nationals in April again. That would be a month and a half after the recommended state tournament. I know you will not make everyone happy. just stating my case.
Do not artificially inflate the state participation numbers or exploit the younger age groups in order to show "growth". It is a temporary bump in numbers and I feel like our long term numbers will suffer even more then they already are. We added the 17 - 20 year olds to the HS division and it was a temporary increase - should have left that as the 16 & Under age group. Do we have any strictly Folkstyle parents on the committee who do not have any kids who enjoy year round or the Olympic Styles (Freestyle/Greco) I believe this is a valid question since nearly all the USAWKS revenue is generated during the folkstyle season. Revenue has been shrinking and expenses are increasing a lot in the last 5 years. Scale back to schoolboy, cadets and juniors. If there is this huge demand for traveling dual teams ages 8 - 12 years old - invite out of state teams to Kansas - and help pay for it self and make even more revenue for other year round stuff. The generations before helped develop a solid balance sheet and ways to fund various extra programs. I did not see any conversation on how to stop the bleeding in over all number statewide at the kids, middle school and HS levels. That is what needs to be addressed in OUR (The State Body) survey. Just one mans opinion.
i was there and my son does just folkstyle. You can still go to folkstyle nationals. It would be no different than going to season opening tournaments like tulsa kickoff or monster mash. You may not see any increase in greco/freestyle or you may. What this is doing is shutting down the younger kids earlier and not wearing them out. Plus with the split we can fit into different venues and not stuck in topeka. If you look the vote was 10-2. i firmly believe this would be a step in the right direction.
The goal is always to create and allow more opportunity for the kids to get better. This will allow the Kids to start summer wrestling earlier to get ready that State event. This will cause Folkstyle events to begin earlier in the year and that’s ok. The goal should always be to improve opportunity for as many kids as possible. I like what I see and it appears to be good for the majority.
Great job!
Originally Posted By: greendog
These are just recommendations? I have said it before. You can't force kids into Greco/Freestyle. I have worked on my own son for year's he still has no interest in either. Also by stopping folkstyle so early...our family will never be able to compete in Folkstyle nationals in April again. That would be a month and a half after the recommended state tournament. I know you will not make everyone happy. just stating my case.

I admit, I have become confused of late about the subject of shortening the folkstyle season. When the subject was first brought up many years ago, the reason given for shortening the season was simply, "because it is too long". Some years later the reason changed to, "to get more kids to participate in FS/GR". Then just this season we are told "so USAW can change their nationals to the month of March".
None of those reasons fly with me!
"The committee determined the primary goal was to add growth to the sport and to increase participation in our state series." The committee then came up with a series of recommendations to be considered by the Board that would facilitate that growth. Below are those recommendations and the vote of the committee.
I would like to see real numbers over the last ten years.

6U
8U
10U
12U
14U
16U
Totals

If we are down a total of 1,000 kids over the last 5 - 10 years do not inflate "state series numbers" I have no clue why we are increasing expenditures at a time when revenues are down?? Is there something in this pattern that the entire state body thinks is healthy for the organization? Not one of the 6 items voted on addresses how to grow the sport (increase overall numbers)
The opportunities being created are mainly for the top 6 kids in state in various age divisions. If I am wrong then I am wrong.
In general that is about approximately 4% (Top 6 in each weight) of the kids in Kansas with USA cards.
On the high school thread some are calling for 1 state location for the various classifications and fewer classifications. Now at the Kids level we want more state tournaments at more locations and divided up age groups - REALLY????
Pretty soon it will be either every age and/or every grade should have it's own state tournament. It is unfortunate.
Just a few of my concerns/questions. I will state up front that I am not a fan of the split tournament but that does not imply I couldn’t change my mind. Hopefully this discussion can be civil…….

If you are holding district and state the weeks leading up to HS state what will the other age groups do for competition for those 4 weeks (kids and HS qualifiers)? Wrestle on Sunday?
Will clubs host a “big” tournament the day after coaching qualifiers? Are we going to put more stress on coaches and their families?

Will there be clubs willing to host tournaments the day after HS regionals and state to get mat time in for the older kids? Historically there are not many large tournaments on those days.

Granted there won’t be a need for 6U state anymore but when will Elementary duals be and how will that fit into everything else happening?

Will clubs just start their season earlier in the year?

Do people think that the younger kids will stick around for practice partners/other styles or just start with soccer and baseball earlier?

Will Middle school AD’s really give in and change their season dates? What if they don’t? Is that good for growth of the sport?

The second weekend in March many facilities are already booked by that round bouncy thing. WSU, Expo, Bi-Center, Emporia, Hutch CC, KSU, FHSU, Dodge Wireless. Hartman and the Casino would be options but are there more? Or are we going to limit ourselves to Wichita?

Will we struggle for quality officials running basically 6 weeks straight of qualifiers between kids and HS?

I don’t like 6U in the state series, I sat there watching it this weekend thinking the majority of it was terrible wrestling. That’s what it’s supposed to be, kids learning the sport for the 1st time.

Do we think moving the 8 and 10’s earlier will change the participation numbers? Personally I don’t think one single 8/10 will stay in the sport because they can be wrestle state in Feb versus early Mar.

I have some other questions and concerns but this a good start to see how the body feels and get me an idea if my concerns are valid/shared or not.

Daniel Reling
Daniel,
You look now at the tournaments that happen the weekends of High school Regionals and high school state. There are very few and they are no where near big tournaments. Kids, especially 14 and under, are shut down during those two weeks. I feel we will actually have a better chance of getting quality refs. Lord knows after watching high school state on all levels there has to be good refs that are being left out. As far as locations, they are places i can think of right off the bat. You named two of them in Hartman and Mulvane. Hutch is having the high event center redone so that is an option. Garden City Community College has nice facilities now but will be even nicer next year. They are redoing the main gym. Those are two i can think of off the top of my head. I am sure there are more.
A lot of clubs are starting practice now in mid October now to get ready for national tournaments. Yes not every kid will do national tournaments. But why can we not get our season to align with a high school season? Start the first of November, start the first week in December with tournaments. Wrestle hard through December and January and ease off by February.
Elementary duals and middle school championships can be held on the same weekend. What are the big venues being used for the day after regionals or even the day after high school state? They could go then. There are many options for this. We could do elementary basically anytime from January to February. People will ask about the kids holding weight. If the kids are cutting that much weight to get to a class, why are they wrestling that class? If we have that big of problem with massive weight cutting, then we need to go to shoulder to shoulder weigh in the day of the tournament just like college does. That will eliminate the massive weight cutting.
Like you said its a start and it needs to start somewhere
I am good with the changes except for one. The date on Change number 4 will make kids choose Jr. High wrestling or club. We have the terrible late season at our school. If districts were this weekend Nolan would have to choose going to state or wrestling with his classmates one last time. I pretty sure Nolan will choose districts but why make the kids choose. My son has wrestled Jr. High the last two seasons. I let Nolan choose club or Jr. High. He went with Jr. High. He has had a great time with Jr. High. Nolan hasn't had any good competition in his two years of Jr. High. He wrestling as a team with his classmate's he has found a new love for the sport. Unless KSHSAA makes every JR. High wrestle the same season. I don't think the dates for change number 4 will work.

Josh Parker
Daniel and others, do not get caught up in the split state tournament discussion. It is a ruse! It is designed to take your eye off the fact that the main goal is to shorten the season. Now, we can argue what the true reason for shortening the season might be, if I understand smokey's post correctly, the new reason is to "increase participation numbers". So, that is four reasons including the ones I mentioned earlier, that exist for shortening the season. My question is this, if the reason for shortening the season is now "to increase participation", shouldn't we first determine that the cause of decreasing numbers is due to the length of the season???
Daniel great points I didn't think about. What will 12 and 14 year olds do for tournaments while high school is going through qualifier and state and the 6, 8 , and 10, year olds are going throug high school and qualifiers.

Honestly this age group is the biggest mess in Kansas wrestling right now. You have all different middle school seasons. If you have a son in 14 and under out of their middle school season it is difficult to find matches. This proposal would hurt those 12 and 14 year old groups.
I think we need to develop 2-3 proposals for the body to vote on while keeping the below things in mind. We can’t lock into 1 scenario without actual detailed research of the plan and risk the house on it. We have to have a detailed plan with facts not all assumptions.

Remain objective, not allowing personality or one person’s sensing of “what the mass wants” to influence them. We must avoid defending a proposal just because we personally developed it.

Accurately point out advantages and disadvantages to the proposal as they become evident.

Assess feasibility, acceptability, and suitability of the proposal. If it fails any of these test during “practice planning” it must be rejected.

Avoid drawing premature conclusions.

This could be a major change to our sport, we have to do it right.
I will also throw into the mix...speaking of trouble getting matches...the 14&U age group, with Kansas' age cutoff date being different from USA wrestling's, half of the age group is in high school the entire season, then comes out of the woodwork, as it were, for the kids state series. This is supposedly the most at risk age group for quitting the sport, and with the system as it is there is the least available mat time. I think one of the things to explore is changing the cutoff so 14&U is 7th and 8th grade as opposed to 8th and 9th
Could change to grades instead of ages. Kindergarten and under, 2nd and u, 4th, 6th, 8th. Above that is high school division. Only thing that would really change would be keeping high school kids in the high school division instead of some being in 14&u.
Go to odd years? 7U,9U,11U and 13U. Leave HS out, someone will organize a post season for HS wrestlers and Greco/Freestyle might get more participation?
Also if you adjust the age cutoff you are already pulling 1/2 of the 6u class into 8u, maybe you don't need to add 6u to the state tournament because the older half become 8u with the date change
then maybe the split becomes 8u/10u/GIRLS and 12u/14u/HS and do away with 6u state, if the older 6u's want to wrestle at state they can enter in the now 1 year younger 8u age group
Does anyone know why the 6u division was never added to original states series...??
Maybe the old timers knew something about not burning our kids out from weight cutting at 5-6,(I ran a subdistrict weighin and watched multiple 5-6 yr olds run for extended periods of time to make a weight that dad/coach entered them into so it happens)or subjecting our 5-6 yr olds to a 5 month competition season when they should at that age be developing basic motor skills and having "Fun".
Also just curious if anyone knows if any or the percentage of 2017 HS state placers/champs were competitive enough at 6 to have attended 8u state and placed or attended the old "6u State" in Ottawa and placed there..??
Also, how many do u know that did compete at 8u as a 6 yr old and no longer are competing at all due to "burn out"?
I do not agree to splitting the state tournament. This will not shorten the season for all, since there is other events that some kids still need to work and practice for, such as Heartland Nationals. I also see the cost of splitting the State Tournament doubling since this is requiring rental cost to the venue that it is held at (Expo Center, Hartman Arena, Bicentenial Center). THis means paying more for Officials, Revenue Rental, entry cost along with set up, running, clean up, supplies, etc. Will that mean an increase on the cost of the cards, coaches cards, club registrations to offset the cost of splitting?
Starting the season early puts a hurt on those wrestling middle school Nov-Dec and also some with football. I think having all Middle school run their season Nov-Dec and hold Middle school state at the end of that season, then start Folk style Middle of Dec to start the younger kids, 6,8,10&U. Then each district just hold a District Championship and then state the next week, to include 6&U into the State Championships and eliminate the High School Division , since they already have their own State Championship series. Elementary State qualifier for Heartland Nationals can be held a week before District qualifiers.
I am looking for the Board minutes from the last 3 meetings including the online budget meeting - not sure where or who has that information. Just curious how we passed a draft budget with no minutes from the online meeting to present to the state body in October.

Sean McCarthy

If you want changes in the By Laws they must be submitted by March 15TH - The old deadline was July.

http://www.usawks.com/ByLaws.pdf


ARTICLE IX – AMENDMENTS OF BY-LAWS (1) These By-Laws may be altered, amended or repealed and a set of new By-Laws may be adopted at any annual State Body meeting or at any special State Body meeting in which at least fifty percent (50%) of all voting representatives of the state are present. This fifty (50%) requirement excludes any Kansas high school only teams chartered by USA Wrestling. Only those proposed changes which have been identified in a notice sent out to member clubs at least 20 days in advance of the meeting may be voted upon at the meeting; however, amendments to the proposals are allowed. (2) Proposed amendments of these by-laws may be made by any individual member of the USAWKansas Wrestling Association. To guarantee that a proposed amendment is considered by the Board of Directors, it must be presented to the State Chairman, in writing, by certified mail postdated no later than March 15. The State Chairman must mail or email a copy of any proposed amendments to each member of the Board of Directors no later than March 20. The Board of Directors will review proposed amendments and make recommendation to the State Body at the next annual meeting.
Member

Registered: 07/07/01
Posts: 5484
Loc: Shawnee Kansas
I am looking for the Board minutes from the last 3 meetings including the online budget meeting - not sure where or who has that information. Just curious how we passed a draft budget with no minutes from the online meeting to present to the state body in October. I believe there have been 3 or 4 meetings since July 2016.

ARTICLE V – MEETINGS (1) State Body Meetings

g. Order of Business – The order of business at all meetings of the members, shall be as follows: i. Roll Call ii. Proof of Notice of Meeting, or Waiver of Notice iii. Reading of minutes of preceding meeting iv. Reports of officers v. Reports of committees vi. Approval of budget (vote must be for entire budget) vii. Election of officers viii. Unfinished business ix. New business All officers giving reports will provide a typed or neatly hand-written copy of their report to the Secretary prior to giving the report to the state body.



Sean McCarthy

If you want changes in the By Laws they must be submitted by March 15TH - The old deadline was July.

http://www.usawks.com/ByLaws.pdf


ARTICLE IX – AMENDMENTS OF BY-LAWS (1) These By-Laws may be altered, amended or repealed and a set of new By-Laws may be adopted at any annual State Body meeting or at any special State Body meeting in which at least fifty percent (50%) of all voting representatives of the state are present. This fifty (50%) requirement excludes any Kansas high school only teams chartered by USA Wrestling. Only those proposed changes which have been identified in a notice sent out to member clubs at least 20 days in advance of the meeting may be voted upon at the meeting; however, amendments to the proposals are allowed. (2) Proposed amendments of these by-laws may be made by any individual member of the USAWKansas Wrestling Association. To guarantee that a proposed amendment is considered by the Board of Directors, it must be presented to the State Chairman, in writing, by certified mail postdated no later than March 15. The State Chairman must mail or email a copy of any proposed amendments to each member of the Board of Directors no later than March 20. The Board of Directors will review proposed amendments and make recommendation to the State Body at the next annual meeting.


Bump
Bump

Member

Registered: July, 07 2001
Posts: 5492
Loc: Shawnee Kansas
USA Wrestling our Parent organization By-Laws.

http://content.themat.com/forms/Bylaws.pdf


3.5 Conflicts of Interest. No member of the corporation's Board of Directors or Executive
Committee shall participate in the discussion concerning, or vote on, any action from which the
member or any organization in which the member is materially interested, may directly or
indirectly derive any material benefit. A violation of this rule by a member of the Board of
Directors or Executive Committee shall not invalidate the action taken by the Board or committee
if, following disclosure of the adverse interest of such member, the Board or committee
authorizes, ratifies or approves the action by a vote sufficient for the purpose, without counting the
vote of such member. Each member of the Board of Directors, members of Standing Committees,
and employees of USA Wrestling will sign and execute a Statement of Principles on Ethical
Behavior and Conflict of Interest each year.
Member

Registered: 07/07/01
Posts: 5484
Loc: Shawnee Kansas
I am looking for the Board minutes from the last 3 meetings including the online budget meeting - not sure where or who has that information. Just curious how we passed a draft budget with no minutes from the online meeting to present to the state body in October. I believe there have been 3 or 4 meetings since July 2016.

ARTICLE V – MEETINGS (1) State Body Meetings

g. Order of Business – The order of business at all meetings of the members, shall be as follows: i. Roll Call ii. Proof of Notice of Meeting, or Waiver of Notice iii. Reading of minutes of preceding meeting iv. Reports of officers v. Reports of committees vi. Approval of budget (vote must be for entire budget) vii. Election of officers viii. Unfinished business ix. New business All officers giving reports will provide a typed or neatly hand-written copy of their report to the Secretary prior to giving the report to the state body.



Sean McCarthy

If you want changes in the By Laws they must be submitted by March 15TH - The old deadline was July.

http://www.usawks.com/ByLaws.pdf


ARTICLE IX – AMENDMENTS OF BY-LAWS (1) These By-Laws may be altered, amended or repealed and a set of new By-Laws may be adopted at any annual State Body meeting or at any special State Body meeting in which at least fifty percent (50%) of all voting representatives of the state are present. This fifty (50%) requirement excludes any Kansas high school only teams chartered by USA Wrestling. Only those proposed changes which have been identified in a notice sent out to member clubs at least 20 days in advance of the meeting may be voted upon at the meeting; however, amendments to the proposals are allowed. (2) Proposed amendments of these by-laws may be made by any individual member of the USAWKansas Wrestling Association. To guarantee that a proposed amendment is considered by the Board of Directors, it must be presented to the State Chairman, in writing, by certified mail postdated no later than March 15. The State Chairman must mail or email a copy of any proposed amendments to each member of the Board of Directors no later than March 20. The Board of Directors will review proposed amendments and make recommendation to the State Body at the next annual meeting.
I do agree with Daniel that we need to look at any and all relevant facts. With that in mind I have started compiling a list of the dates of other state's 2017 Kids State Championships. This is not a complete list yet, but I started off looking at more of the competitive states in wrestling and then worked from there. I hope to get them all compiled here shortly. As the list below shows, we are within a couple weeks of most of these states.

California - March 17-18 (USA)
Colorado - February 25-26
Florida - March 10-12 (USA)
Georgia - March 4-5 (USA)
Illinois - March 9-11 (USA)
Iowa - January 28-29 (USA), Feb. 25-26 (AAU 3rd-8th), Mar. 4-5 (AAU K-2)
Minnesota - March 10-12 (USA)
Missouri - March 25-26 (USA)
Nebraska - March 11-12 (USA)
New Jersey - March 11-12 (USA)
Ohio - March 25-26
Oklahoma - February 10-11
Texas - February 25-26
Wisconsin - March 24-25
Rich I'm glad you posted those. I decided to look into when these states started tournaments this is what I found.

California - Aug
Colorado - Oct
Florida - Aug
Georgia - Oct
Illinois - Nov
Iowa - Oct
Minnesota - Nov
Missouri - Dec
Nebraska - Oct
New Jersey - year around
Ohio - Oct
Oklahoma - Oct
Texas - Oct
Wisconsin - Nov

Chris Stivers
For the most part all the states have a season 3.5 - 4 month season. A few are longer and a few are shorter. Clubs can control the length of season the best by there start date and end date for the beginners.
Originally Posted By: BigBlue6
Also if you adjust the age cutoff you are already pulling 1/2 of the 6u class into 8u, maybe you don't need to add 6u to the state tournament because the older half become 8u with the date change


Find an 8U 40lb wrestler this year that is not a 6U.
Originally Posted By: ath618
Originally Posted By: BigBlue6
Also if you adjust the age cutoff you are already pulling 1/2 of the 6u class into 8u, maybe you don't need to add 6u to the state tournament because the older half become 8u with the date change


Find an 8U 40lb wrestler this year that is not a 6U.

The 8U and 6U cut off happens about 49 or 52 lbs. The weights below that are 6U kids. The unfortunate fact is that the lightweight kids get a 6U state, but if you kid is bigger they have to weight til 8U.
The real unfortunate thing is that there are way to many young ones that never even make it to the mats in high school. The proof is in the numbers.
As we were setting up for state last night it really gets you excited (even with Mark getting on our a$$ wink ) to have 1,400 + kids in there this weekend wrestling for championships.

One of my biggest struggles with the impending changes is that we are going to break that down to a much smaller level and lose a lot of the excitement it brings for both the kids and adults.

It just won't have the same feeling if you can't take your club as a team to the State tournament.

Regardless of what weekend or location it's held I personally think it's important to keep this great event together as 1 tournament.

Enjoy the weekend and good luck to everyone.
Originally Posted By: Daniel DRW
As we were setting up for state last night it really gets you excited (even with Mark getting on our a$$ wink ) to have 1,400 + kids in there this weekend wrestling for championships.

One of my biggest struggles with the impending changes is that we are going to break that down to a much smaller level and lose a lot of the excitement it brings for both the kids and adults.

The changes are ONLY "impending" if the rank and file allow it. And they shouldn't allow it!
Originally Posted By: sportsfan02
Originally Posted By: Daniel DRW
As we were setting up for state last night it really gets you excited (even with Mark getting on our a$$ wink ) to have 1,400 + kids in there this weekend wrestling for championships.

One of my biggest struggles with the impending changes is that we are going to break that down to a much smaller level and lose a lot of the excitement it brings for both the kids and adults.

The changes are ONLY "impending" if the rank and file allow it. And they shouldn't allow it!


You are absolutely correct! Each club needs to have representation at the state body meeting in October to ensure the body gets what the body wants, whatever that choice is.
Daniel as you know the numbers actually only would go down (20 wrestlers) yet would take Top 6 from each district so that actually provides more oppurtunities for wrestlers? And that is at the 6U, 8U, 10U level.

The tournament grows at the 12U, 14U, and HS levels.


Finding venues in the state could be an issue as identified. But could Topeka host the 8U,10U, 12U or the 12/14/HS if dates work out? But there is some value in rotating the tournament.
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