Kansas Wrestling
Posted By: coachtwink Where did everyone go? - 07/26/06 01:16 AM
Just curious where everyone went the last 3 days. It's weird to see more activity on the other forums than on the High School forum!
Posted By: Isenberg133 Re: Where did everyone go? - 07/26/06 01:30 AM
its probably because its not even high school yet..but freestyle is going on right now..nothing really to talk about in the high school forum
Posted By: master blaster Re: Where did everyone go? - 07/26/06 01:31 AM
Looks like every subject has been beat to death, atleast til the new school year starts. Maybe someone should start another juicy rumor to get things cranked back up!
Posted By: Curtis Chenoweth Re: Where did everyone go? - 07/26/06 05:25 AM
I heard coachtwink has found a 5th year of eligibility and will be suiting up next year for Goddard to enhance the strength of the all powerful Lions lineup...
Posted By: Ol' AC Dog Re: Where did everyone go? - 07/26/06 02:32 PM
They already have a good HWT!
Posted By: Jared C Re: Where did everyone go? - 07/26/06 09:53 PM
How about this to talk about! Has wrestling declined in the ability of the wrestlers? My freshman year there were the likes of jared vogel, doug hoover ,luke metzler, charbanuea. In my opinion the ability of the wrestlers has deteriorated. Not saying that there arent good wrestlers left but there are not as many? What are your thoughts?
Posted By: master blaster Re: Where did everyone go? - 07/26/06 10:30 PM
I think the average wrestler has gotten better bringing about a situation where there arent as many dominate wrestlers like the ones you have listed above or maybe were just waiting on a new crop. I wrestled a long time ago but its easy to see that the kids today who specialize in wrestling would have eaten my lunch. I think they are much stronger and have better technique than we did back in the day.
Posted By: Jared C Re: Where did everyone go? - 07/26/06 11:27 PM
I dont know about the average wrestler has gotten better there are individuals that make it to state now that a few years ago would not of even won a match at regionals. There are not as many dominant wrestlers with an exception of a few.
Posted By: Curtis Chenoweth Re: Where did everyone go? - 07/27/06 01:44 AM
I disagree! There are several dominating wrestlers. We have 3 kids right now going for not only 4 state titles, but 4 time undefeated state champions. Then there are at least 4 other kids with the chance to be 4 timers. I think there's definitely not a lack of dominating wrestlers right now. You just have to keep up with all 4 classes of wrestling b/c each of them have several dominating wrestlers in them!
Posted By: Jared C Re: Where did everyone go? - 07/27/06 02:34 AM
Im not saying there are not dominant wrestlers but you look and the reason there are that many kids going for four time state champions is because they are great wrestlers and noone else comes close because the talent pool is shrinking!
Posted By: Curtis Chenoweth Re: Where did everyone go? - 07/27/06 03:20 AM
Not true. If you look at all the state brackets, and records of the kids I mentioned, they've had close matches at state, and with 3 exceptions had losses to someone during the year. The only 2 that didn't have close matches were Caldwell who dominated everyone all year, and then Trent Cox who dominated at state but still lost during the year.
Posted By: mike elliott Re: Where did everyone go? - 07/27/06 03:24 AM
I would suggest that as a freshman looking at seniors they will always seem bigger than life. I know the senior class during my sons freshman year with the likes of Baldridge, Cornejo, Grater, Edgmon, Marrs, and Taplin, left a lasting impression on him. Heck the junior class with Deshazer, Strawn, Garcia, Roe, Madden, Jonas, and Erisman, were pretty Impressive.
Posted By: launicachica Re: Where did everyone go? - 07/27/06 06:18 PM
sparks at 215 lbs maybe at bishop carroll this comming year.
Posted By: Aaron Sweazy Re: Where did everyone go? - 07/28/06 10:20 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Jared C:
How about this to talk about! Has wrestling declined in the ability of the wrestlers? My freshman year there were the likes of jared vogel, doug hoover ,luke metzler, charbanuea. In my opinion the ability of the wrestlers has deteriorated. Not saying that there arent good wrestlers left but there are not as many? What are your thoughts?
I think interest in a lot of schools for wrestling has gone down...you are now just getting some schools with die hard wrestlers going out there against Billy-Bob from Podunk, who was pulled out of the hallway to field as a 285lb guy...it really is getting sad watching some of these kids that don't want to be out there get tossed around easily.
Posted By: Curtis Chenoweth Re: Where did everyone go? - 07/28/06 08:23 PM
5 Kansas Cadets make the championship finals at Fargo in FS! I think this disproves the theory that Kansas doesn't have as many dominant wrestlers.
Posted By: master blaster Re: Where did everyone go? - 07/28/06 08:53 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Aaron Sweazy:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jared C:
How about this to talk about! Has wrestling declined in the ability of the wrestlers? My freshman year there were the likes of jared vogel, doug hoover ,luke metzler, charbanuea. In my opinion the ability of the wrestlers has deteriorated. Not saying that there arent good wrestlers left but there are not as many? What are your thoughts?
I think interest in a lot of schools for wrestling has gone down...you are now just getting some schools with die hard wrestlers going out there against Billy-Bob from Podunk, who was pulled out of the hallway to field as a 285lb guy...it really is getting sad watching some of these kids that don't want to be out there get tossed around easily.
Its always been that way even when I wrestled a long time ago. People would talk heavier wieght kids to come out so they could put a full team on the mat and many times it was embarrassing to watch. Its easy to see the teams that have high numbers in the room are the most successful, even if a shcool has some good wrestlers and good coaching if the numbers are low its a struggle. But I still think the talent in Kansas is as good know as its ever been and maybe even better than in years past.
Posted By: Jared C Re: Where did everyone go? - 07/28/06 09:51 PM
My freshman year the senior class that attended Senior Nationals placed 3rd as a team! What have the past few years placed? Also in the FS nationals how old were these idividuals that are in the finals?
Posted By: Curtis Chenoweth Re: Where did everyone go? - 07/28/06 09:58 PM
They are freshman and sophomores. I think my sr year we took 7th or so at sr nationals. How bout you give me a list of all your dominating wrestlers, and I'll match it?
Posted By: Curtis Chenoweth Re: Where did everyone go? - 07/28/06 10:01 PM
And am I right in thinking you're the same age as I am? Jared Chansler maybe?
Posted By: Jared C Re: Where did everyone go? - 07/28/06 11:48 PM
Yeah thats me I use to wrestle the same weight as you in kids wrestling for a few years. Vogel Dugan Seiler Metzler Schwartz Ubben Hoover Stabb Bahe Martin Carrol I am not to positive if all of them were seniors when I was a freshman also there is Dukes Lira Jones Chrisman Bradley Bunch Ludke.
Posted By: Curtis Chenoweth Re: Where did everyone go? - 07/29/06 01:46 AM
Alright, here's my list. I'm sure I'm leaving a few off.
Trent Cox*
Nathan Furches*
Colin Hase
Paul Hansen
Tyler Caldwell**
Clay Madden*
Trison Graham*
Larry Perez
Donny Altman
Kenneth Livengood
Blake Fisher
Aaron Ely
Tyler Baker
CJ Napier
Tait Weatherbee
Tristen Deshazer*
Cole Garcia
Luke Pfannenstiel
Scott Elliot**
Judd Schroeder
Boaz Beard**
Lance Roe
Pete Eck
Frank Jonas
Romero Cotton*
Neil Erisman
Jesse Strawn
Chris Sutton-Kearn
Steven Foster
Atticus Disney
Jarrett Edison
Duane Zlatnik
Caleb Payne
*denotes 4xer or a possible 4xer
**denotes possible undefeated 4xer
Posted By: Aaron Sweazy Re: Where did everyone go? - 07/29/06 03:14 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Curtis Chenoweth:
Alright, here's my list. I'm sure I'm leaving a few off.
Trent Cox*
Nathan Furches*
Colin Hase
Paul Hansen
Tyler Caldwell**
Clay Madden*
Trison Graham*
Larry Perez
Donny Altman
Kenneth Livengood
Blake Fisher
Aaron Ely
Tyler Baker
CJ Napier
Tait Weatherbee
Tristen Deshazer*
Cole Garcia
Luke Pfannenstiel
Scott Elliot**
Judd Schroeder
Boaz Beard**
Lance Roe
Pete Eck
Frank Jonas
Romero Cotton*
Neil Erisman
Jesse Strawn
Chris Sutton-Kearn
Steven Foster
Atticus Disney
Jarrett Edison
Duane Zlatnik
Caleb Payne
*denotes 4xer or a possible 4xer
**denotes possible undefeated 4xer
OK...where is Aldon? Gotta have him, and Big Steve?!!? MIA?
Posted By: Jared C Re: Where did everyone go? - 07/29/06 05:49 PM
That is quite a list and I should not say anything because they all would kick my butt. But your making it sound like I am saying there are no good wrestlers any more because there are still some highly skilled grapplers still wrestling. Like the ones you mentioned above. But there are kids now who make it to state that are first and second year wrestlers. I have looked in the state book and seen many wrestlers with loosing records. In 2005 in 4a had 4 wrestlers with loosing records. 5a there were 41 wrestlers with loosing records. 6a there were 31 wrestlers with loosing records. These are not including wrestler with 50 50 records. There are also many wrestlers with one win of 50 50.
Posted By: billy_mcjackson_ripjc Re: Where did everyone go? - 07/29/06 06:40 PM
The class of 2001 as well as the class of 2002 produced a different calibur of wrestler than Kansas is producing now. We will probably never see another Shawn Bunch, Joe Johnston, or Ben Coleman, Josh Carrol, or Justin Dyer. Guys like that, which the 01 and 02 classes were full of, would completely dominate any state champion from todays ranks. I will admit that Baldridge, Cornejo, and Deshazer were all amazing, but do you really think they would stand a chance against Bunch? Starting in 2003 the level of Kansas wrestling began to drop and is still now starting to get back on track, sort of. All of the kids you have on your list are like, 130 lbs and under for the most part. The most physical and toughest weight classes start after that and keep going up until 215/HWT. Your list is full of guys who dominate lesser opponents when back in the day people lost more because they had tougher opponents week in and week out. Example, I would have placed no higher than 5th in 2001, no higher than 4th in 2002, and 2nd in 2003(comparing my talent as a senior to the level of competition that year). In 2004 I was undefeated until the last match at state, which probably says more about the lack of competition than my ability as a wrestler.
Posted By: Curtis Chenoweth Re: Where did everyone go? - 07/29/06 06:47 PM
There's always been 50/50 wrestlers that make it to state, as well as kids with losing records. That's not just a thing that's starting to happen. And as far as the guys jhris mentioned, they are no doubt some great wrestlers. But there's no doubt that some of the wrestlers that will be going to college to wrestle next year are also great wrestlers. Kansas has produced dominating wrestlers in the past and my point is that the level of wrestling hasn't really dropped off at all. There have always been great wrestlers, but theres also been a lot of wrestlers who just pick up the sport b/c there's nothing better to do.
Posted By: Aaron Sweazy Re: Where did everyone go? - 07/30/06 04:19 AM
Losing not loosing...

Also there needs to be something done in 5 and 6a to prevent automatic qualifying to state. I saw an 8 man bracket with 5 guys in it one year at a regional, the way it worked out the #1 seed didn't even have to win match and could have taken 4th...simple solution, make a round robin bracket if 5 or less guys in a regional bracket.
Posted By: Scarecrow_103 Re: Where did everyone go? - 07/30/06 04:23 AM
I think it was last year at 5a 103, a kid was 0-4 and still qualified for statee, pretty ridiculous.
Posted By: bighead Re: Where did everyone go? - 07/30/06 07:45 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by billy_mcjackson_ripjc:
The class of 2001 as well as the class of 2002 produced a different calibur of wrestler than Kansas is producing now. We will probably never see another Shawn Bunch, Joe Johnston, or Ben Coleman, Josh Carrol, or Justin Dyer. Guys like that, which the 01 and 02 classes were full of, would completely dominate any state champion from todays ranks. I will admit that Baldridge, Cornejo, and Deshazer were all amazing, but do you really think they would stand a chance against Bunch? Starting in 2003 the level of Kansas wrestling began to drop and is still now starting to get back on track, sort of. All of the kids you have on your list are like, 130 lbs and under for the most part. The most physical and toughest weight classes start after that and keep going up until 215/HWT. Your list is full of guys who dominate lesser opponents when back in the day people lost more because they had tougher opponents week in and week out. Example, I would have placed no higher than 5th in 2001, no higher than 4th in 2002, and 2nd in 2003(comparing my talent as a senior to the level of competition that year). In 2004 I was undefeated until the last match at state, which probably says more about the lack of competition than my ability as a wrestler.
You say the most physical and toughest weight classes start after 130, but yet you seem to be attached to Bunch's scrotum??? The guys you list are studs no doubt, but I question whether you have seen the talent prior to the 21st century. As for the talent now... It's all there, you possibly could be stuck in the year 2001 and not even know it.
Posted By: billy_mcjackson_ripjc Re: Where did everyone go? - 07/31/06 03:19 PM
Who are you? Wichita South? Do they even have a team? As for Bunch, yeah, I am. Who better to be attached to than the most bad-a wrestler out there from Kansas other than Roberson? As for your quote, it sucks.
Posted By: Mike Furches Re: Where did everyone go? - 08/01/06 12:16 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by billy_mcjackson_ripjc:
Who are you? Wichita South? Do they even have a team? As for Bunch, yeah, I am. Who better to be attached to than the most bad-a wrestler out there from Kansas other than Roberson? As for your quote, it sucks.
I think a former state champ, also known as one of Kansas most Bad A wrestlers to come about over the years.

Wichita South, Yep actually they had a great team this last year. Some may say one of the best runner up teams in quite some time. Very well coached and rather respected among a lot of folks.
Posted By: Beeson Re: Where did everyone go? - 08/04/06 10:29 PM
I haven't seen one wrestler mentioned from before 1998. Are you youngins so full of yourself to think there was no wrestling before 2000. Myron Roderick from Winfield in the 50's he would have made most of you kids pee down both legs. Jimmy Rameriz from AC Three Time State Champion, 2nd his freshman year. He went on the mat with a broken ankle, his freshman year. Wes Harding, Todd Drake, Justin Ware, Temoor sp. Terry, Eric Aiken, The Hernandez brothers, Brady Ayers, Killer Franks, the list goes on and not one of them after 1992.
Posted By: Beeson Re: Where did everyone go? - 08/04/06 10:35 PM
I forgot to mention that back when Myron and Jimmie won it was a true state championship, no classes.
Posted By: master blaster Re: Where did everyone go? - 08/04/06 11:00 PM
How about Roy Oeser and most of the guys who wrestled for kmc and ark city during the mid 70s all the way through the late 80s, it seemed like you never got an easy match against those teams.
Posted By: Beeson Re: Where did everyone go? - 08/04/06 11:03 PM
Hard nose, in your face, no excuses, real wrestlers.
Posted By: Dasasher Re: Where did everyone go? - 08/05/06 12:46 AM
well my money is diffently on GODDARD!
Posted By: Curtis Chenoweth Re: Where did everyone go? - 08/05/06 09:02 AM
Firstly Beeson, there have been a very large number of great wrestlers to come from the state of Kansas. Our debate is not about that fact though, the debate is about the current times and what some people think is a recent drop off in the skill of wrestling.
Secondly, you make it sound as though it's our own fault there are 4 state brackets. It's not our choice so don't take away from what has been accomplished recently throughout the classes because of it.
Thirdly, I don't know of a single wrestler talked about on here that isn't a hard nosed in your face no excused wrestler. We're as tough as Kansas wrestlers have always been! You just have to give us time to write our own careers to prove so.
Posted By: Beeson Re: Where did everyone go? - 08/05/06 02:00 PM
Here is my problem with the debate. You alone named off 35 "studs" for just this year. I only named 10 or so for forty years. You guys are to quick say someone is a stud. You want time to write your carreers, well quit writing what you think will happen now and put the facts down when the wrestling is over. Too much talking. I'm old, fat, and out of shape; the time for talking And for the gentlman that says Desasher and the others could not go a match with Bunch. Did you ever watch Bunch in High School he won but was far from DOMINATING.
Posted By: Prant Garker Re: Where did everyone go? - 08/11/06 03:47 PM
Everyone seems to have left two studs off this list--

Prant Garker and ToachCwink.

Clearly, by omitting these two pillars of Kansas wrestling, none of you know what you're talking about.
Posted By: Bauerly Re: Where did everyone go? - 08/11/06 04:38 PM
Have you all forgotten Melvin Douglas what he has accomplished in this State and Internationally.
Posted By: Beeson Re: Where did everyone go? - 08/11/06 04:44 PM
First of all I apologize to Prant and Toach. Second I did remember Melvin Douglas but after the post and did not want to beat a dead horse since the subject seemed to taper off for a little while.
Posted By: Curtis Chenoweth Re: Where did everyone go? - 08/11/06 06:07 PM
Crap, sorry Prant and Toach. Also forgot about one of the all time greats that rose to success under the wing of Prant, Jhris. What were we thinking!
Posted By: zachman140321a Re: Where did everyone go? - 08/11/06 11:24 PM
uhhh... tyler caldwell went undefeated during the season didnt he 35-0 correct me if im wrong
Posted By: Beeson Re: Where did everyone go? - 08/11/06 11:46 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Curtis Chenoweth:
Alright, here's my list. I'm sure I'm leaving a few off.
Tyler Caldwell**
**denotes possible undefeated 4xer
Already noted.
Posted By: love it Re: Where did everyone go? - 08/12/06 03:18 AM
try 39-0 I believe
Posted By: master blaster Re: Where did everyone go? - 08/12/06 03:53 AM
I love talking about wrestling but with the new season still a ways of we seem to be beating the same horse over and over again! Anybody got any ideas for some fresh discussion.
Posted By: coachtwink Re: Where did everyone go? - 08/12/06 03:38 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Prant Garker:
Everyone seems to have left two studs off this list--

Prant Garker and ToachCwink.

Clearly, by omitting these two pillars of Kansas wrestling, none of you know what you're talking about.
Boy I don't know what I have done to be put in the same class as Prant. He plays a mean Fiddle, and I just wrestle!
Posted By: parkwayred Re: Where did everyone go? - 08/12/06 04:03 PM
Your taste in women is a lot better than Prant's!
Posted By: coachtwink Re: Where did everyone go? - 08/12/06 10:44 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by parkwayred:
Your taste in women is a lot better than Prant's!
Amen, although Prant claimed to have a female companion at Pamon's wedding. There was definitely no family resemblence (she was attractive) so that rules out that she was his cousin. My guess is that she was tagging along for the free food at the reception.

And just for the record, Pamon is now married. Lord help us, there may be more Parkers in the future!
Posted By: zachman140321a Re: Where did everyone go? - 08/12/06 11:26 PM
i wonder how we would match up against the ancient wrestlers back in the days when they wrestled naked on dirt
Posted By: Prant Garker Re: Where did everyone go? - 08/13/06 07:18 AM
Twink: It's pronounced "Darker" not "Parker."

And Red, you really don't think I can bag a respectable lady? How DARE you.
Posted By: chewbacca Re: Where did everyone go? - 08/20/06 03:51 AM
so does anyone know how Jellybean City looks this year? i hear they never rebuild, they just reload.
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