Good job to all the Kansas young men wrestling at the metro classic Tuesday night. You took out the 'unbeatable' dream team that many said you would not beat. Two years in a row they've learned Kansas ain't made out of a bunch of sunflowers!
Way to show up and fight!
MO had nine state champs (including three 4x, I believe) and KS only had a couple. Our boys really stepped it up tonight. It was an awesome show!
It was a lot of fun watching!
Hype is an amazing thing. What I saw from the Kansas team tonight is a team that wrestled smart, kept their matches close, and for the most part just looked more hungry for the win. I was very impressed with the level of wrestling and for handling things at the end without letting your tops blow. Those kinds of events are a blast though. Awesome job Team Kansas!
Nice work, it is tough following you guys from over here in Barcelona but I do my best. I like the post by fudge tunnel on the national forum before the meet...
"I've got KS favored in 3 matches, MO favored in 12 matches. Not that I'm biased, or anything."
If you really want some entertainment go to the Missouri website and check out their explanations on why they lost...it is funny.
What a great week! My Cyclones from Iowa State take out Mizzou at the Big 12 Tourney, and then the Kansas boys make us proud last night.
I'm going to take my leather throw dummy (you know that guy with the name 'Bill' on his chest) and change his name to Mo. What do ya think?
Who were MO's four time state champs and how did they do? Thanks.
I saw in several cases that when a mo kid lost he would not go shake the hand of the Kansas Coaches. winn you win it is ok to sellabrate but that looked like a Taunt. And the heavy looked like the scene out of a bad movie with the thumbs down. this does show the gpa in affect so correct me if i'm wrong and for all the mo's out there gpa stands for grade point average. the school system needs work don't blame the youth.
Who were MO's four time state champs and how did they do? Thanks.
125 - O'Donnell (MO) tech fall Miller 19-4
140 - Senzee (MO) dec Millstead 4-3
145 - Nay (MO) dec. Hudgins 14-7
Thanks Kevin.
I find it interesting that Nay as a four timer had FIVE losses on the year. And, O'Donnell had four losses on the year.
It seems like when KS has a four timer, they either finish undefeated or only have 1 or 2 losses.
I'm wondering what this says about the competition (if it says anything). Just curious.
Oak Park which already had a touch schedule, really stepped it up this year and went really tough Nationally. Nobody in this area wrestled competition like they did this year.
24/7
Mr Welsh--
I believe Mr Akin can comment on the Nay and O'Donnell kid. I've witnessed him working out with both of them.
whats the link to their forums???
missouriwrestling.com - i think they moved the topic or something because it is not up anymore and they left a link for you to go to the new topic...however you have to join the website to view it.
Last Night Was Awesome. Good Job Kansas!!!
I believe not shaking the coaches hand is a rule in missouri. Many years ago they tried to impose the rule on the KS wrestlers too, but we kept going across the mat and shaking their hands anyway.
In the star Payne stated that he "stalled on purpose"...Even with Kansas winning that was the worst display of wrestling I have seen. It is not just a matter of the MO HWY pushing him out, he stalled on purpose...why even wrestling in an All-Star dual if you are not going to wrestle?
The rest of the Kansas boys should a lot of heart and in my eyes flat out wanted it more than Missouri. IMO is was very unfortunate for the dual to end that way after the rest of the team showed as much heart as they did.
He did it for the team! I LOVE JOE PAYNE!!!!
In the star Payne stated that he "stalled on purpose"...Even with Kansas winning that was the worst display of wrestling I have seen. It is not just a matter of the MO HWY pushing him out, he stalled on purpose...why even wrestling in an All-Star dual if you are not going to wrestle?
The rest of the Kansas boys should a lot of heart and in my eyes flat out wanted it more than Missouri. IMO is was very unfortunate for the dual to end that way after the rest of the team showed as much heart as they did.
Payne was wrestling the number one kid in the nation. He had one job - not to get pinned. If he doesn't get pinned KS wins the dual. If he needs to stall then stall - it is within the rules.
Do you complain when a football team uses all the time on the clock before hiking the ball? Is it being unfair for a basketball team to hold the ball until just before the shot clock expires?
Payne is a team player who swallowed individual pride and did what was necessary for his team to win. I am proud of him.
I agree Barry. Payne did what the team asked of him and more. He wrestled a great match, period.
I saw MO wrestlers stalling last night - on bottom, neutral, and top. But I saw more "smart wrestling" than anything else. Both teams put on a great showing.
It does a real dis-service to everyone when you imply that your opponent beat you with less than his best effort - it's just whining.
I believe 2 of O'Donnells losses this year were to the guy who wrestled right after him, from Park Hill...
I posted "Better luck next year!" on their topic and they deleted it. It looks like they're taking this well. Good work Team Kansas!
Disney is right on. Way to go Team Kansas!
Here are my camparisions with what you said regarding football and basketball to wrestling.
Would the football team snap the ball when the play clock ran out and then just run around behind the line of scrimmage to waste time and then jump out of bounds?
Would the basketball team let the shoot clock expire and then just before it does try to just hit the rim so the shoot clock can restart?
By the way...stalling is not within the rules...you get penalized for it. You get a warning, penalty points, then you are defaulted from the match.
I am from Kansas, live in Kansas, wrestled in Kansas, I have been extremely impressed with how Kansas has looked the last two years at this event. They have appreared to be in better shape and have more of a want to than Missouri has. I am just dissapointed that the last match was wrestled the way it was, I dont think it did either wrestler justice as to the type of athlete they both are. What would have been the reaction if last year Levi Thompson would have blatanly ran from Levi to preserve a MO win last year.
Once again, I was for the most part very imressed with the job that was done by the Kansas team and wish their wrestlers and coaches the best of luck in the future.
How could Levi Thompson have ran away? The match was tied and his team was only up by two? That doesn't add up to me....
It may not be what you want to see or hear, but kids who know they are outmatched often wrestle to avoid bonus points to help out the team. It was the smart thing to do!
agreed there is a smart way to wrestle to not give up bonus points...that is part of the strategy of the sport that makes is a team sport. I guess I am just a little ignorant that I have never seen the type of stategy of avoding your opponent.
As I stated before I just felt it was an injustice to both of the wrestlers abilities not to showcase them in an All-Star dual.
I didn't see much offense from Bradley either. He just kept pushing Payne out of bounds. That could be construed as stalling on Bradley's part too. How many shots did Bradley take? Be honest! He just pushed!
Payne did what he had to do to win. He's a team player. Bradley only took half shots... when they were close to the out-of-bounds line. He never took a decent shot in the middle of the mat. And he was blocking Payne from having a offense. If thats the best heavyweight in the nation... cant wait to see how he matches up in college. Oh by the way he showed great sportsmanship after his match... lol
RailerMulePanther if you live in Kansas why does your location say MO... Yeah i would be mad too if my team lost this dual.
Once again...I would have liked to see Payne WRESTLE with him. It is a great win for Kansas and again congratulations to the coaches and wrestlers.
Dom Bradley is ranked either 1 or 2 in the nation, not sure which one. His lose this year came from Elijah Madison who I believe moved from Kansas to Oak Park, not sure though. He did show pretty poor sportsmanship at the end of the match you are right, almost like thompson did when he beat ellis two years both pretty classless acts, not kids just acts. Bradley is going to MU next year so it shouldn't be too hard to keep track of him since you are interested, he will have to beat out mark ellis for the spot.
My location says MO because I teach and coach in Missouri, I wrestled at CMSU and have a Missouri teaching certificate, but reside in Kansas. Can't quite bring myself to claim residency over there. I am not mad and apologize if it has come across that way. Once again, being an all-star dual I felt it was an injustice to the two heavyweights to not be able to wrestle each other. It is an all-star dual, both were selected because of the abilities and acheivements they worked very hard for; not to stall out the match.
RailerMulePanther -
I understand your frustration. Perhaps in coming years they could draw the starting weight so it doens't always come down to the big boys.
I watched Payne wrestle just a couple weeks ago at the state tournament. From what I saw his style is to keep the matches close and wait for the other guy to mess up. In other words, a typical heavyweight wrestler. I am not sure that even if the dual had already been decided you would have seen a much different match. And it was a good strategy. If things would have went different or Dom made a misstake then who knows?
And you are right -- stalling is a penalty. But point is that Joe took his penalties and Dom got the points so Joe played within the rules.
And yes - a football or basketball team would do just what you described if it would get them a victory.
All i know is when i looked at the match ups i thought we were smoked, and i am usually pretty optimistic about that kind of stuff, last year i thought we would even win. Even if Payne did wrestle not to loose, how many times at the end of duals have you heard coaches say "joe dirt won us the match keeping it close and not giving them any extra points" i have heard it quite a few times. Anyways, all im saying is kansas won and payne did what he had to do to make it happen.
Mr Welsh--
I believe Mr Akin can comment on the Nay and O'Donnell kid. I've witnessed him working out with both of them.
For sure these are a couple of studs I expect to hear about for years to come. . . college. . .international. . etc. Neither one of these guys would ever shy away from competition. Nay could end up being Asics wrestler of the year this year. Both should win Jr titles this year. . IMO.
Here are my camparisions with what you said regarding football and basketball to wrestling.
Would the football team snap the ball when the play clock ran out and then just run around behind the line of scrimmage to waste time and then jump out of bounds?
Would the basketball team let the shoot clock expire and then just before it does try to just hit the rim so the shoot clock can restart?
By the way...stalling is not within the rules...you get penalized for it. You get a warning, penalty points, then you are defaulted from the match.
I am from Kansas, live in Kansas, wrestled in Kansas, I have been extremely impressed with how Kansas has looked the last two years at this event. They have appreared to be in better shape and have more of a want to than Missouri has. I am just dissapointed that the last match was wrestled the way it was, I dont think it did either wrestler justice as to the type of athlete they both are. What would have been the reaction if last year Levi Thompson would have blatanly ran from Levi to preserve a MO win last year.
Once again, I was for the most part very imressed with the job that was done by the Kansas team and wish their wrestlers and coaches the best of luck in the future.
If you think that Payne blatantly ran, then you didn't see the match. Bradley pushed him off the mat each time. Carl folded to the Missouri crowd on the stalling calls. I could see the call when Joe was on bottom but not when they were nuetral.
I think it would be very cool if they were to draw starting weights; it would allow the biggins to wrestle. I know that it wouldn't get rid of the pressure that can sometimes come with being the last match of a dual but it might change it up.
I guess my biggest arguement is the fact of my frustration of the kids not being able to wrestle in this all-star format. Payne did do what the team needed him to do....and yes Chief to answer your statment...I did see the match.
Oh pleeeeaaazzzzeee.
1. Payne gave up points to save points.
2. Dom was unable to get the job done.
3. RailerMulePanther continues to deliberately berate a wrestler on a public forum...in anonymity...a MO coach/teacher...mmmm?
Hey billybob, I think it would be even more cooler if you'd (RailerMulePanther) face the opposition (this crowd) half as well as Payne did.
Scott, I think you are taking this a little personal. I am not berating anyone...as I stated before I am in no means angry. My frustration is that I would have liked to see the two heavyweights wrestle. Kansas winning is bitter sweet for me, yes I coach in Missouri and would have received a lot of grief if Missouri would have won. Payne did what his team needed, I would have however liked to have seen him wrestle.
The kansas team did a great job getting ready for the dual and again congrats to the wrestlers and coaches. See you all next year!
i dont think railmulepanther is berating payne. i think he is saying he would have liked to see an aggressive match between 2 very talented heavyweights. as a kansas fan, i'm glad payne did what he did to preserve the dual victory. if i'm an unbiased wrestling fan going to the dual i'm disappointed from the standpoint of watching 2 very good wrestlers go at it. one thing no one has mentioned is...what if payne would have won had he wrestled aggressively? i mean, he pretty much insured he would lose by how he wrestled, not that i think thats wrong. i'm glad he got the win for KS, but i would have enjoyed seeing an aggressive match.
If someone can suck up their own pride for the team I say kudos to them!
At one of the practices I believe the Monday before right after weigh ins one of the Kansas Coaches said remember that this is NOT a tournament it is a dual. Its not about individual pride but team pride. Do not give up the 6 points.
Well said. I know every time we broke it down at the end of practice we said team, thats what it was about.
What a great dual meet! Kansas dominated by doing what they had to do to win. If Missouri wants to whine, whine about Nay nos t
getting a major decision, or whine about Bradley getting taken out of his match. Both of their Kansas opponents were not the better wrestlers technically, but they controlled the match to obtain their objective-that's smart and dedicated wrestling!
....I guess my biggest arguement is the fact of my frustration of the kids not being able to wrestle in this all-star format. Payne did do what the team needed him to do....and yes Chief to answer your statment...I did see the match.
I have read a lot of this thread but not all of it, so I apologize if I am repeating something that has already been said. I read a couple of times from RailerMulePanther that he was frustrated that in an all star competition format Payne chose not to wrestle all out and instead decided to stall to avoid the pin and insure the win for the team.
This is more than an all star competition. It is also a Missouri metro vs. Kansas metro team competition. Basically it is a Missouri side vs. Kansas side of the State Line metro wrestling competition. If it was just an all star metro competition it should just have the two best senior metro wrestlers at each weight competing no matter what side of the State Line they are from. This is all about bragging rights for the year in the metro area. So it is definitely not all about individual all star competition. In a team competition like this, you wrestle your match with the team goal in mind. I think it is revealing what Travius said the coaches told the wrestlers before the meet that this was not a tournament but a dual. In that situation it seems that as an individual you sometimes would have to wrestle your individual match different than a tournament to preserve the team victory in the dual format.
Scott, I think you are taking this a little personal. I am not berating anyone...as I stated before I am in no means angry. My frustration is that I would have liked to see the two heavyweights wrestle. Kansas winning is bitter sweet for me, yes I coach in Missouri and would have received a lot of grief if Missouri would have won. Payne did what his team needed, I would have however liked to have seen him wrestle.
The kansas team did a great job getting ready for the dual and again congrats to the wrestlers and coaches. See you all next year!
RMP,
The 'blatently ran" comment is the berating. It was a shoving match. Dom had the physical edge and besides a few half-hearted shots, he pushed Joe off the mat. At no time did Joe run. The replay tonight will clear it up. Mute the volume from the MO fans and watch how Carl was influenced by them. Nothing personal on this one RMP. If the tables were turned, KS fans would have reacted the same way during the match. The correct way to score that match would have only given Dom two stalling points when he was on top.