Kansas Wrestling
Posted By: bigblueballs Biting - 02/04/08 05:16 PM
When a wrestler gets bitten in a match, isnt that supposed to be automatic DQ for the wrestler who bit him. The reason why i ask is my brother has been bitten twice in two weeks and the ref both times said, "well you shouldnt have put your fingers in his mouth". One time he was bleeding all over the mat and they penalized my brother for misconduct when he started jumping up and down in pain. Is there a rule somewhere that explains this, or is it bad calls by the refs? I am not an expert, but can someone clarify this for me.
Posted By: Nate Naasz Re: Biting - 02/04/08 05:37 PM
DQ for the remainder of the event.
Posted By: bigblueballs Re: Biting - 02/04/08 05:55 PM
Ok. This was a championship match and they did not DQ him, they penalized my brother for getting upset for being bitten (i might have punched the guy if he bit me and drew blood, but my brother was able to control himself). So i guess you are saying that is was bad job by the ref. No biting regardless of where your fingers accidentally get around the mouth.
Posted By: John Lynch Re: Biting - 02/04/08 06:04 PM
One of our jv girls got bit by a guy at the p-burg tourney this weekend and he was disqualified from the tournament and ejected.
Posted By: Nate Naasz Re: Biting - 02/04/08 06:10 PM
It was my 112.
Posted By: bigblueballs Re: Biting - 02/04/08 07:03 PM
the kid that bit him was a ranked wrestler on this site who is also a senior from a good wrestling school. The coach of the biter started yelling at us because we were upset. i cant believe the nerve of that guy. I almost want to post the name of the wrestler and the school because i am so upset about it still, but i wont.
Posted By: usawks1 Re: Biting - 02/04/08 07:11 PM
Something doesn't sound quite right with what you are describing! Did the ref actually see the bite or did your brother just show the ref an injury?

I've seen wrestlers intentionally "fish hook" his opponent in the mouth.

I think the intent ... will be a judgement by the ref!!
Posted By: bigblueballs Re: Biting - 02/04/08 07:49 PM
i dont know if the ref saw it but my brother was bleeding pretty good and he jumped up like evander holyfield when it happened and the ref penalized him for getting upset. they stopped the match and taped him up and everything. he told him not to put his fingers in his mouth if he didnt want them to get bit, but he didnt call a fish hook or anything on my brother either. the guy didnt seem to really know what he was doing though, and believe me i am the last one to criticize the ref, but this was pretty bad. we had coaches coming up to us saying they saw it from the stands and how bad it was. Even if the ref didnt actually see it, isnt the bite marks and bleeding finger enough to kick him out, or does he actually need to see it happen? Just curious.
Posted By: parkwayred Re: Biting - 02/04/08 09:28 PM
 Originally Posted By: usawks1

I've seen wrestlers intentionally "fish hook" his opponent in the mouth.


A fishhook is not illegal is it? That is as real as wrestling gets if you got the marbles to stick you finger in somebody else’s mouth and yank! who cares if they bite you!
Posted By: bigblueballs Re: Biting - 02/04/08 10:02 PM
it has to be illegal right? You can kick somebody in the balls too if you are man enough to take the whoopin he might give you in return. Just because you might have the marbles doesnt mean you can still do it.
Posted By: Dean Welsh Re: Biting - 02/04/08 10:32 PM
The ref can ONLY call what he has PERSONALLY seen with his own two eyes. Some kids have been known to BITE THEMSELVES. Note, I'm not saying your brother did this.
Posted By: RichardDSalyer Re: Biting - 02/04/08 10:59 PM
Rules & Cases Directory
Wrestling Rules
Rule 5: Definitions
Section 2: Biting
Article 1

Art. 1... Biting is an act of flagrant misconduct and, on the first occurrence, an individual shall be disqualified from competition.

Article 2

Art. 2... If in the opinion of the referee, a wrestler has bitten an opponent this will be deemed as intentional biting and will be called as flagrant misconduct.
Posted By: wrestlingAlum Re: Biting - 02/05/08 02:09 AM
The official was a little inexperienced, and probally wasnt sure what call to make. It did seem obvious though, the wrestler had a deep bite, and WAS from the opponent.The assistant official was never asked by the official doing the match for assistance.I know it doesnt seem fair, but thats the way it goes sometimes, ya just have to beat him when it counts, Regionals..
Posted By: resslnfan Re: Biting - 02/05/08 03:35 AM
My son was "fish hooked" at state last year. Totally uncool!
Posted By: bigblueballs Re: Biting - 02/05/08 02:17 PM
totally agree wrestling alum. I was just wondering on the ruling because i wasnt really sure. Dont see that kind of stuff too often. This ref was way too cocky to ask for help anyway.
Posted By: Coach Bill Re: Biting - 02/05/08 02:51 PM
At MillValley Sat.in a kids tourn. one of our kids got bit on the arm while he was crossfacing his opp. and stood right up and pointed to his arm to show the ref and the kid who bit him got DQed from the tourn. Ref didnt see it happen but it was a total bite.
Posted By: bigblueballs Re: Biting - 02/05/08 03:19 PM
that is the way it should be. the ref needs to use common sense in these situations. 99% of the time the kid isnt going to bite himself. There are the rare exceptions, but if the ref is really paying attention, something like that should be able to be caught.
Posted By: Chief Renegade Re: Biting - 02/05/08 03:33 PM
 Originally Posted By: Coach Bill
At MillValley Sat.in a kids tourn. one of our kids got bit on the arm while he was crossfacing his opp. and stood right up and pointed to his arm to show the ref and the kid who bit him got DQed from the tourn. Ref didnt see it happen but it was a total bite.


The intent is the key issue here. I think the finger being bit is different than the arm on a crossface. If the bottom kid has his mouth open and the top kid throws a hard crossface, teeth marks are going to be there. Also, I heard that nobody got DQ'd at Mill Valley. No paperwork was filled out.
Posted By: bigblueballs Re: Biting - 02/05/08 05:02 PM
i agree with chief. if you have marks on your forearm from a crossface that is a completely different issue. that is just accidental contact with the teeth. intent is the key issue. drawing blood would definately be a good place to start at. anything else intent is real hard to prove because of the nature of wrestling an the contact that it brings. case by case is about the only way you can rule on this. just like anything else in wrestling, it is real hard to state exactly how something should be ruled.
Posted By: papa scarecrow Re: Biting - 02/05/08 05:38 PM
With a crossface/bite, the call has to do with whether or not there are bottom teeth marks as well as top. Jim Beltch taught us this at the Johnson County Kids Classic years ago when our son was bitten by a kid from Missouri.
Posted By: bigblueballs Re: Biting - 02/05/08 07:42 PM
good point scarecrow. that makes sense.
Posted By: Chief Renegade Re: Biting - 02/05/08 07:50 PM
I still say that a hard crossface to an open mouth can cause top and bottom teeth marks. It still becomes a judgement call.
Posted By: vike82 Re: Biting - 02/05/08 08:36 PM
 Originally Posted By: Chief Renegade
I still say that a hard crossface to an open mouth can cause top and bottom teeth marks. It still becomes a judgement call.


We had a kid called for this in the Jr. High meet this year, he has a tendency to wrestle with his mouth open. His opponent put in a hard crossface and ended up having teeth marks on the top of the hand, didn't break skin, just the impression. This was in the final match, our wrestler was ahead and and got DQ'd. The next meet he was sporting a new mouth guard.
Posted By: bigblueballs Re: Biting - 02/06/08 02:05 PM
probably not a bad idea if you have a problem keeping your mouth closed. it eliminates any doubt whatsoever.
Posted By: RJW1 Re: Biting - 02/06/08 02:39 PM
I don't understand why this is the one call that the ref doesn't have to see to call. What if a guy cranks on my fingers and breaks one and I show the ref? I bet he won't call it if he didn't see it. If you see them bite someone then DQ them, but you can't call what you don't see. A few years ago a kid claimed he was bitten by is opponent on the arm. Turned out after a big mess that he bit himself.
Posted By: windjammer Re: Biting - 02/06/08 04:04 PM
I gotta admit that when this thread started, I expected a nasty rebuttal from the other side, or witnesses to come forward saying it didn't happen like you said. They haven't come forward, so I have a couple of questions.

First, was there an explanation on the misconduct? Did he drop a 4 letter somewhere in his jumping in pain?

Second, is this blood time or injury time?
Posted By: bigblueballs Re: Biting - 02/06/08 05:33 PM
he didnt curse and they would not grant injury time (only 10 seconds to go in match). He said something like "are you serious, the guy bit me" or something of that nature, but he was a little upset at the time, but he didnt curse. He was bleeding too, so that just shows that this ref really had no idea what he was doing because there was no blood time given. It wasnt like most cases where you just see teeth marks, this time skin was broken and was pretty obvious.
Posted By: smokeycabin Re: Biting - 02/06/08 05:57 PM
Crossface over the mouth should be a penalty point if I read the rules correctly. It could be 1 penalty point. Just like hands over the mouth. The biting is DQ. In that case the illegal hold (crossface over the mouth) should stop the match. Unless the other guy won't let go with his teeth.
Posted By: Mike Furches Re: Biting - 02/06/08 07:20 PM
 Originally Posted By: smokeycabin
Crossface over the mouth should be a penalty point if I read the rules correctly. It could be 1 penalty point. Just like hands over the mouth. The biting is DQ. In that case the illegal hold (crossface over the mouth) should stop the match. Unless the other guy won't let go with his teeth.


I never thought of this but this could be a reasonable judgment call depending on how it is applied. Chief is right though, top and bottoms can be seen on the arm with a hard cross face. We have spoke about this many times before here. Test it on your own arm, hard arm across the face with an open mouth. You will see top and bottom marks. There are other things a ref will look for to indicate a bite.
Posted By: doognevil06 Re: Biting - 02/07/08 03:02 AM
i know this doesn't have to do with biting but a couple of weeks ago our guys' nuts were grabbed during the whole match. the opponent would do this whenever he had a spiral, or would reach behind and inbetween the legs and pick him up off his feet by the nuts. is this legal? our kid told the ref and the ref didn't really seem to care. i also know this happened to me in kids state before and again ther ref didnt care
Posted By: wrestlingAlum Re: Biting - 02/07/08 10:48 AM
They're part of the body, as long as they are not punched or kicked, they can be grabbed
Posted By: windjammer Re: Biting - 02/07/08 01:56 PM
And they can't be bitten.
Posted By: bigblueballs Re: Biting - 02/07/08 02:32 PM
i am pretty sure someone cant bite there own nuts either. How would you show proof of that, would the wrestler have to drop em in front of everyone and what ref would want to check that. Never mind this is going in the wrong direction.
Posted By: windjammer Re: Biting - 02/07/08 03:04 PM
"Handballer"?
Posted By: Beeson Re: Biting - 02/07/08 03:15 PM
I was wrestling a kid that had never been beat in High School, pinned everyone in a move called the pretzel. For weeks before the match, my coach had worked with me on how to stay out of this move. The night of the match, my coach told me good luck and stay out of the pretzel. 30 seconds into the second period I found myself in the pretzel. As I was struggling to get free I looked up and saw my opponents testicles just inches from my face and I bit down. Immediately I flipped him on his back and pinned him. As I came off the mat my coach asked how I had gotten out of the pretzel. I simply replied...It's amazing what you can do when you bite your own nuts.
Posted By: PatrickCavanaugh Re: Biting - 02/07/08 03:44 PM
Now that's funny!
Posted By: bigblueballs Re: Biting - 02/07/08 06:49 PM
just making a joke windjammer from an earlier post when someone said wrestlers have been know to bite themselves to get the other wrestler DQed. I was just going with it and you didnt get it, but that is ok i will explain it to you.
Posted By: windjammer Re: Biting - 02/07/08 07:02 PM
I got it. I was also making a joke. Handballer seems like a funny name in a thread about scrotal grabbing.
Posted By: bigblueballs Re: Biting - 02/07/08 08:42 PM
ha ha. that is a great observation. I didnt get your joke. We are on the same page. Nice.

P.S. I dont put hands on balls unless they are my own.
Posted By: wrestlingAlum Re: Biting - 02/07/08 11:41 PM
You need to get out more often...
Posted By: maybeimamazed Re: Biting - 02/07/08 11:46 PM
OK.....

Anyway, getting back to original question....

Biting is flagrant misconduct. Period. The official can either call it on sight, or if the other kid shows him the bitten apendage and there are upper and lower teeth marks.
Posted By: bigblueballs Re: Biting - 02/08/08 02:17 PM
I think you need to take your own advice alum. I am not the one posting at 6:41 P.M. You want to know why. It was because i was out drinking beer. Dont worry about me i get out plenty, maybe you should do the same.
Posted By: RichardDSalyer Re: Biting - 02/08/08 09:57 PM
 Originally Posted By: Beeson
I was wrestling a kid that had never been beat in High School, pinned everyone in a move called the pretzel. For weeks before the match, my coach had worked with me on how to stay out of this move. The night of the match, my coach told me good luck and stay out of the pretzel. 30 seconds into the second period I found myself in the pretzel. As I was struggling to get free I looked up and saw my opponents testicles just inches from my face and I bit down. Immediately I flipped him on his back and pinned him. As I came off the mat my coach asked how I had gotten out of the pretzel. I simply replied...It's amazing what you can do when you bite your own nuts.


Posted By: jojo Re: Biting - 02/08/08 10:09 PM
Richard, how long did it take you to find that picture? Or is that the family pet?
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