Based on the KWCA poll, it appears clear that Newton & Basehor are considered the two toughest tournaments in Kansas. So who comes in next? Place your vote in this poll to see who is considered the toughest after the top two.
Rose Hill!! tough tournament
Another team u forgot that goes to Newton is Clay Center
NCKL,
I would vote that Beloit was the toughest small school tournament in the state but we are many, many years past the Ken Piazza dynasty. The poll is asking which tournament is the toughest THIS YEAR, I believe. Polls sometimes represent an emotional decision rather than an educated one. That is why I put a list of teams on this post. I would bet the team that wins Beloit this year couldn't crack the top 5 at Garden City.
The question is " In your opinion, which Kansas Tournament is the "Toughest"?" Nowhere does it say this year or small school tournament. This is an opinion poll and nothing more. All i am saying is everyone has their own opinion, and they voiced their opinion, and then someone chimes in and says they are wrong in their opinion. Why have a poll if this is the case? I have no doubt that all these tournaments have outstanding teams and individuals, but a question was asked and people voted for what they thought, in their own opinion.
Who cares how tough it was last year! That is old news! Last year my 401K kicked butt but not this year! Opinions should be at least somewhat educated conjectures not a blind stab in the dark!
Another team u forgot that goes to Newton is Clay Center
I copied these team listings from the kansaswrestling.org page. They do not have Clay Center listed however I did check Clay Center's schedule and they have Newton on their schedule.
Cokeley;
What is your top five toughest this year?
And what weight will the two SJA studs be at for the Derby tournament, Cokeley & Moeder?
Based off of last years team results
Last years results of Newton
Top 5 finishers
1st Bishop Carroll (5A state champions)
2nd Clay Center (4A State Champions)
3rd Manhattan(6A State 3rd)
4th Colby (4A State 3rd)
5th Derby (6A State Runner ups)
Last years results of Beloit
1st Clay Center (4A State Champions)
2nd Colby (4A State 3rd)
3rd Manhattan (6A State 3rd)
4th Smith Center (321A State Champions)
5th Beloit (321A State 3rd)
Last years results of Garden City
1. Rio Rancho Rams (New Mexico 5A state Champions)
2. Ponderosa Mustangs (Colorado 5A state Champions)
3. Liberal Redskins (5A state 4th)
4. Roosevelt Rough Riders (Colorado 3A State Champions)
5. Andale Indians (4A State Runner up)
I think that last year one of the three Clay Center, Colby, and Manhattan could have cracked the Top 5 at Garden which would have been the Top 3 at Beloit and 3 of the Top 5 at Newton.
Beloit is not as tough as Newton or Garden. I think that Garden is a real tough tournament and the Top three tournaments should be in no particular order Garden, Newton, and Basehor. I had a hard time picking between these three on the KWCA poll. I think there are great arguements for all three.
I like Garden City (would be better if Goddard, Derby, or Carroll were there) as the out of state competition is awesome! Three of the top 10 teams (out of 82!) from The Reno Tournament of Champions will be in Garden City. Ponderosa,CO 5th, El Reno,OK 9th, and Rio Rancho,NM 10th. Rio Rancho has Trujillio and Ortega, Ponderosa has Hofer, Kelley, and others, Conifer has Himmelman, Andale is tough, Liberal is really good even without Bach, Garden City has lots of tough kids, Scott City has a two time state champ, etc. I don't think there will be a really weak weight class in the tournament. Newton and Derby are both tough but they are only populated with in-state talent. I love the Basehor tournament but I think it is down a little this year. Glenwood, IA doesn't have any highly ranked kids, Oak Park Staley has a great coach but only one high caliber wrestler, but you have Goddard, Andale, and Lansing. This tournament could have used Park Hill, Mo and/or Blue Springs, Mo. Chanute is tough for a one day event and Beloit attracts all of the small school talent and two of the 4A big dogs (Clay Center and Colby.) When the lineups come out and you see the number of state champs, Fargo AA's, and ranked wrestlers (state and nationally) I guess you could easily weight them and establish which one is REALLY the toughest.
2008/09 Toughest Kansas Hosted Tournaments
1. Garden City
2. Newton
3. Derby
4. Basehor
5. Chanute (Best one day tournament by FAR!)
Moeder will be at 112 and Cokeley 130 at the Derby event.
i love this time a year!
A good dose of wresling and now a little anticipation for Christmas and then more wrestling!
yes its a great time of year, i also like seeing what everyone has to say on the "Cokeley talk forum". I just think that should be the appropiate name for it.
Please show me where i said that the Beloit Tournament was tough last year! At no time did i ever make that comment! It is sad that you have to twist peoples words around just because you don't agree with them! One more time, when some one asks for an opinion, they have a right to say what they feel. If you dont agree, fine, but this wasn't a life and death poll. People say what they feel, and they shouldn't have to be questioned by someone of your supposedly self esteemed stature! ( By the way, my 401K did well last year too, and it bites this year, but what that has to do with an opinion poll beats me!)
Beloit is by far the toughest and best run tournament in the state.
i say boo individual tournaments!
what are the top 5 toughest dual tournaments in the state? i would of liked to see colby compete in an all-class dual state championship tournament the past couple years.
THEY HAVE BEEN SOLID!!!
Hallucinating drugs must be freely available to the 321A fans. Beloit?!*# I can't speak for the operation of the tournament but I can clearly see by the teams attending that it is NOT the toughest tournament unless they wrestle it outside in the parking lot on sand and gravel instead of a mat. Now that would be a tough tournament!
Colby and Clay Center have been solid but no match for Bishop Carrol or Goddard the last couple of years. This there is lots of parity. A grand state dual tournament would be very interesting.
1st. Newton
2nd. STATE
3rd. Derby
4th. Rosehill
I would have to predict Beloit the Champion of the grand state dual tournament..
Mill Valley would end up in second in the grand state tournament.
Beloit? Mill Valley? joking right?
thinking more like colby, clay centre, valley center
"Hallucinating drugs must be freely available to the 321A fans" ... and what is that odd ingredient in the Kool-Aide you are serving Will?? LOL
So, now it is drug use that sways everyone who doesn't agree with the opinions of Mr Cokeley. What a sad way to try to make ones case. This all started out because of an opinion poll posted on this website...an opinion poll people! And because some people seem to disagree with Mr Cokeley's opinion, they must surely be under the influence of hallucinating drugs that Mr Cokeley seems to think are freely available to only fans of 321A wrestling. From what i have seen, 321A fans are not the only one's that do not totally agree with Mr Cokeley's opinion on the toughest tournament, so maybe everyone has access to these so called drugs.I honestly think that Mr Cokeley might have been jesting when he made this statement, but i dont think it was the way to try to get across his my way or the highway take on an opinion poll. Drug use is not a joking matter.
NCKL,
Merry Christmas! Lighten up! Everything can be a joking matter if worded appropriately. You are WAY too serious to be on a talk forum. In the big picture it really doesn't matter which tournament is important or whether we even have wrestling or not as it is just an extracurricular activity. But, since we have wrestling and we have a place to discuss it lets have some fun!
Everyone is entitled to an opinion and sometimes there is absolutely no way to judge or determine which choice is more likely to correct. In this case there are indisputable facts that can prove out which event is tougher, given that we agree that "tough" means the greater number of higher performing athletes, so my sarcasm is just a way of supporting the facts.
I have been around a long time as well as there have been times when 321A was, at the top, competitive with the larger school classifications but at this point in time they are not. Just the way it is. Of course anyone can be beaten in any given match but generally speaking the Beloit tournament, this year, is not in the top five of Kansas hosted events. Sorry to have offended you but not so sorry that I probably wont' again.
Happy Holidays!
I have been around a long time as well as there have been times when 321A was, at the top, competitive with the larger school classifications but at this point in time they are not. Just the way it is.
Would you please like to tell that to Norton, Clay Center, or Andale?
Goodland Dual Tourney ResultsGOODLAND(321A) 47 DODGE CITY(6A) 15
GOODLAND(321A) 35, GARDEN CITY(6) 34
NORTON(321) 33, GARDEN CITY(6A) 31
Grand Island Dual TournamentSmith Center(321A) 39 Manhattan(6) 34
Carroll InviteWichita Carroll(5A) 148,
Andale(4A) 1461⁄2,
Wichita Heights(6A)1361⁄2,
Newton(5A) 1221⁄2,
Salina South(5A) 94,
Winfield(5A) 54,
Wichita Independent(4A) 50,
Wichita North(6A) 46,
Wichita Campus(6A) 421⁄2,
Wichita Northwest(6A) 40,
Mulvane(4A) 35,
Wichita South(6A) 27,
Rose Hill(4A) (-1).
Clearwater(4A) 49 Andover(5A) 30
Smith Center(321) def. Abilene(4A) 34-30
Clay Center InviteClay Center 1821⁄2,
Norton(321A) 1131⁄2,
Andale(4A) 99,
Salina South(5A) 901⁄2,
Beloit(321) 821⁄2,
Rock Creek(321A) 67,
Ellsworth(321) 631⁄2,
Junction City(6A) 41,
Topeka Seaman(5A) 14,
Salina Central(5A) 3.
Would you mind telling all the smaller schools that they aren't "as good" as the bigger school? Andale shouldn't have beat all those big bad 5/6A teams since they're 4A. These were just a few I found without having to look all that hard...
I have been around a long time as well as there have been times when 321A was, at the top, competitive with the larger school classifications but at this point in time they are not. Just the way it is.
Would you please like to tell that to Norton, Clay Center, or Andale?
Goodland Dual Tourney ResultsGOODLAND(321A) 47 DODGE CITY(6A) 15
Scott City(321A) 40 Ulysses(4A) 24
GOODLAND(321A) 35, GARDEN CITY(6) 34
NORTON(321) 33, GARDEN CITY(6A) 31
Grand Island Dual TournamentSmith Center(321A) 39 Manhattan(6) 34
Carroll InviteWichita Carroll(5A) 148,
Andale(4A) 1461⁄2,
Wichita Heights(6A)1361⁄2,
Newton(5A) 1221⁄2,
Salina South(5A) 94,
Winfield(5A) 54,
Wichita Independent(4A) 50,
Wichita North(6A) 46,
Wichita Campus(6A) 421⁄2,
Wichita Northwest(6A) 40,
Mulvane(4A) 35,
Wichita South(6A) 27,
Rose Hill(4A) (-1).
Clearwater(4A) 49 Andover(5A) 30
Smith Center(321) def. Abilene(4A) 34-30
Clay Center InviteClay Center 1821⁄2,
Norton(321A) 1131⁄2,
Andale(4A) 99,
Salina South(5A) 901⁄2,
Beloit(321) 821⁄2,
Rock Creek(321A) 67,
Ellsworth(321) 631⁄2,
Junction City(6A) 41,
Topeka Seaman(5A) 14,
Salina Central(5A) 3.
Would you mind telling all the smaller schools that they aren't "as good" as the bigger school? Andale shouldn't have beat all those big bad 5/6A teams since they're 4A. These were just a few I found without having to look all that hard...
Scott City is now 4A and Goodland beat them in their dual at the tournament, in-fact the top 2 finishers were Norton and Goodland(both are 321A).
I was specifically referring to the 321A schools in general. Beloit has no significant representation of any of the top bigger schools in Kansas or from out of state. This post is directly related to toughest tournament hosted in Kansas.
Donkey Wrestler, I would consider GC or DC as being 6A powerhouses right now. GC will be good by the end of the season but DC is by-in-large absent of any proven talent.
4A is tough right now but Clay Center, Andale, or Colby would not be able to beat BC, Goddard, or Derby in a dual.
Individually I would match up the Beloit Tournament champions against the GC Tournament Champions in a dual and it would be very lopsided with the GC Champions winning 10 plus matches.
Will Norton finish in the top 5 at Newton? Would they in Garden City?
Basically I am saying that few 321A champions would win 4A, 5A, or 6A state.
Did anyone ask Santa for a Grand State to settle all of this nonsense?!
No Will, you made the remark youself that no smaller school 4/321A could even compete with the larger schools. Another uneducated comment by yourself.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but when facts disproves an opinion, it tends to lend itself to discredit the opinion.
The past, present, and future of kansas wrestling has, is, and always will be 4a and 321a.....
Alex aka Donkey Wrestler,
I NEVER said 4/321A couldn't even compete. Show me where I said that! I said the best 5A and 6A programs are better than the best 4A programs RIGHT NOW and especially better than the 321A schools this year. I said that GC is much tougher than Beloit because the large number of 321A schools in the Beloit tournament and because of the out of state competition competing in GC.
Nothing you have posted discredits my statements. (Please reread my post above yours and tell me where I am wrong!)
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but when facts disproves an opinion, it tends to lend itself to discredit the opinion."
I totally agree with you so I guess you are admitting that I am right as I have posted many facts supporting my comments. When the tournaments have been finished lets post the results, the facts, and lets see who is right then.
I have been around a long time as well as there have been times when 321A was, at the top, competitive with the larger school classifications but at this point in time they are not. Just the way it is.
Here you say they aren't competitive... what more needs said?
Donkey Wrestler,
You said "No Will, you made the remark youself that no smaller school 4/321A could even compete with the larger schools. Another uneducated comment by yourself."
Then you found my quote Originally Posted By: Cokeley
I have been around a long time as well as there have been times when 321A was, at the top, competitive with the larger school classifications but at this point in time they are not. Just the way it is.
No 4A and qualified by "at the top". Dispute it with facts! You can't even thoroughly read my posts... You have continuously misquoted me and misrepresented me maliciously. What is your problem with ME?
I sincerely hope you are better at reading the rule book than you are at reading and interpreting my posts. Furthermore I hope that your obvious small school bias isn't subconsciously carried onto the mat when you are officiating.
Mr Cokeley; I am way to serious to be on a talk forum? PLEASE! You have stated what i have been trying to say all along in my other posts. You say in the big picture it really doesn't matter which tournament is important, so why when someone puts out their opinion on this subject, you take them to task for it? You said it yourself, its not that important, just something to have fun with. It seems to me that you have been the one who has been to serious with this subject. People were having fun with it, but you kind of took the fun out of it by doing that. Nothing personal, just my opinion. As for you asking me to lighten up, I plan on doing that right after the holidays. Gotta lose the Christmas pounds!

Happy New Year to you and yours.