Kansas Wrestling
Posted By: Ricky Bobby Dual State vs. Grand State - 02/03/09 09:59 PM
Which would you rather see in Kansas?
Posted By: Crossface King Re: Dual State vs. Grand State - 02/04/09 12:40 AM
Thanks for the interesting poll question. I had to side with Dual State, since it gives a reason for the whole team to continue training and practicing. It was not an easy decision, but one I feel would benefit the team the most.
Posted By: blaise Re: Dual State vs. Grand State - 02/04/09 12:58 AM
What would the criteria be to qualify as a team for the Dual State?
Posted By: Ricky Bobby Re: Dual State vs. Grand State - 02/04/09 01:08 AM
Here is the proposal that was sent into KSHSAA several years ago:

DUAL STATE WRESTLING TOURNAMENT

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


QUALIFYING PROCESS:
top 4 teams in each Regional tournament qualify for a 16-team Dual State for each class
in case two teams are tied for fourth place, the following criteria will be used: 1) most Regional top six placers; 2) most top four placers; 3) most top two placers; 4) most champions; 5) most wins in Regional tournament (not including byes); 6) highest win pct. in Regional tournament; 7) most wins head-to-head (between two teams in question); 8) coin toss
CALENDAR SCHEDULE:
one-day tournament, four mats for each class
the Regional and Individual State tournaments will be moved up one week, with the Dual State tournament held the weekend which is currently the Individual State weekend
teams still allowed 30 scheduling points
BRACKET ARRANGEMENT:
16 teams in bracket, single elimination, semi-final losers wrestle for third place
Round 1 @ 10:30 a.m. - four mats
Round 1 (cont.) @ 12:30 p.m. - four mats
Quarterfinals @ 2:30 p.m. - four mats
Semi-finals @ 4:30 p.m. - two mats
First/Third place @ 6:30 p.m. - two mats
Brackets will be set using the same formula used to set the Ind. State brackets (First A vs. Fourth B, Second C vs. Third D, etc.)
MISCELLANEOUS:
teams may weigh-in any 18 wrestlers and adjust their lineups throughout the day as per National Federation rules
top three teams receive trophies and medals for each team member
NOTES:
this event is fan and media "friendly" as it is easy to follow
this event gives a wrestler a chance to compete in a state-level event even if he may not have been able to qualify for Ind. State....more opportunities and recognition for kids!!
a great promotional event for our sport and its top teams
rewards the programs with balance strength throughout the lineup
20 of 48 states that sponsor wrestling have a Dual State tourney....Doug Moore (Concordia wrestling coach) contacted these states and all who responded had very positive comments about their Dual State events
only twice in the history of the Iowa Dual State has the same team won both the Individual State and Dual State team title
The plan is to run the event for two years in this format, then revisit it and make any necessary adjustments
Posted By: blaise Re: Dual State vs. Grand State - 02/04/09 01:29 AM
Thanks for the update. I initially voted for Grand State. After further review, I am now undecided. As a wrestling fan, I would be excited to see either one take place.
Posted By: Fraggle Rocks! Re: Dual State vs. Grand State - 02/04/09 02:59 AM
Didn't Kansas used to have Grand state? I also voted for Grand State however after reading the post the dual sounds exciting!
Posted By: BLT Re: Dual State vs. Grand State - 02/04/09 03:25 AM
I love the poll!!!
I picked Dual State for a few reasons.
#1 It gives a lot of kids that contribute to the team week in and week out but they might be in a very stacked weight class and this will give them a chance to shine.
#2 I also tend to think that winning a dual state will help coaches get a little more recognition. They deserve more!

JMO
Posted By: HEADUP Re: Dual State vs. Grand State - 02/04/09 01:15 PM
i think that if we are going to do it, we would have to push for both. if only picking 1, i put grand state. although the dual tournament would be exciting in the finals i don't think that there would be that many close dual scores. let's face it, our sport keeps dwindling and many top tournament teams don't have all weights filled.they may have quality wrestlers to finish 3rd of 4th in a regional with only 4 wrestlers. in a grand state tournament every match would be like a semifinals match, the biggest problem would be stiff necks trying to catch all the action. just look on the other thread, the same 3 or 4 names come up on top dual teams, i think the distance between 1st and 3rd would be huge. jmo. both would be great for the sport, but i think grand state would be better. let's quit talking about it and do it!!
Posted By: rjohnson Re: Dual State vs. Grand State - 02/04/09 01:39 PM
Both sounds good for the sport, however I would be one to lean towards Grand State to allow those guy's that may desire to take their wrestling to the college level another chance to show of their skills one more time. This also would catch the attention I feel of College coaches more than the format we currently have. I do not see this ever happening if KSHSAA is involved or they would be hammered from all other sports to do the same.

It would be nice if this year we could put together some type of tournament with in a couple of weeks after High School State inviting the top 4 placers out of each class. Would this be something USA Wrestling would consider putting on?

RJohnson
Posted By: 24/7 Re: Dual State vs. Grand State - 02/04/09 02:10 PM
They did it in past years "unofficially" as you are talking about and the problem is if it's not part of the HS schedule, they can't work with coaches, alot of kids take a break and it was not completely supported by all 4 kids in each class. It was done like this in the early 80's. Maybe kids have changed now and all would come. I don't know. I like the idea however.

24/7
Posted By: Cokeley Re: Dual State vs. Grand State - 02/04/09 02:22 PM
The first step to getting dual state will be giving up trophies for teams at individual state. KSHSAA will never agree to presenting two teams a state championship trophy.

In Wisconsin they only invite thet top eight teams to dual state, which I feel would be adequate for Kansas as well. The top two from each regional.

We need this to be implemented at the same time they overhaul the competition points system to bring back the mid-week dual. There should be a half dozen competition points that are allowed only for Mon - Thur night, one-on-one duals. These are great for parents, crowds and schools. The current system discourages the use of points for these because you don't get as much match time for your points. Come on coaches, get behind this and you will have something you can promote wrestling with and get more kids out. They want to wrestle in front of a home crowd!!
Posted By: ROBERT M. GONZALES Re: Dual State vs. Grand State - 02/04/09 03:19 PM
Ricky Robby. Who are you ? Give me a call 1-785-587-2150 ex. 101
The plan you shared looks almost exactly like the original one that several of us drew up in 1995 or 1996 ??. Several of us met at neosho county college with Terry Pack/Richard Fergola/Kit Harris/Randy Hinderliter/Doug Vanderlinden were present. (I have to dig out a file) But I am sure about that time Richard and Kit were on the USAW FS-GR staff and we were having a team camp at Chanute. We met and discussed the plan and I took the plan to KSHSAA for the next four-five years trying to get passed. Now keep in mind this was NOT first or the original plan. Doug Moore had a plan back in late 89-90 or 90-91 to adopt Dual State. Coach Moore spent a lot of time contacting other state associations and gathering data on this proposal. For a number of us coaches wanted Grand State wrestling back and that issue was like beating a dead horse. (KSHSAA) before Rick Bowden simply did not like the Grand State Concept. Coach Moore said lets try this dual state idea. All of the ideas posted here are excellent and have value for the wrestling community. I have been on the KWCA board since 1980 and we have tried to get change. Keep sending the ideas to the forum. Old guys like me, we have not given up. I am currently on the 6A coaches to get their possible rule recommendations to me via their Regional Tournament Director. Personally I would like to see Grand State it was the greatest wrestling in our state. I was in college and working at KAYS-TV and had the opportunity to watch many great bouts in Gross Colesium. Keep your ideas coming. RMG
Posted By: shawnbudke Re: Dual State vs. Grand State - 02/04/09 03:50 PM
I voted for the dual state. I like the idea of the team concept. The wrestling community at large struggles with popularity and trying to grow the sport on a national level (ie, wrestling on TV, etc). The team aspect of the dual makes it more fan friendly and it is very exciting.

I like the idea of a grand state also but if it is one or the other I like the dual idea better. I think the kids have ample opportunity at other venues for individual competitions.

Just my 2 cents.

Shawn Budke
Posted By: shawnbudke Re: Dual State vs. Grand State - 02/04/09 03:52 PM
They just did this for the first time in Montana for their 6A equivalent schools. Now there is only 14 or 15 schools (I may be off one or two) but they used a pool format. Not sure that would work in KS. The one that was posted seemed ok to me.

Shawn Budke
Posted By: Husker Fan Re: Dual State vs. Grand State - 02/04/09 04:05 PM
Originally Posted By: Crossface King
Thanks for the interesting poll question. I had to side with Dual State, since it gives a reason for the whole team to continue training and practicing. It was not an easy decision, but one I feel would benefit the team the most.


I agree with you, Shawn Budke and the others who have posted with a pick of the dual format over the grand state format. I also think it would be great to have both but I would vote for dual state over grand state if the choice was one or the other. I agree with Will that we need to try to encourage more dual competitions during the season too.
Posted By: sportsfan02 Re: Dual State vs. Grand State - 02/04/09 04:11 PM
Originally Posted By: ROBERT M. GONZALES
The plan you shared looks almost exactly like the original one that several of us drew up in 1995 or 1996 ??.

Coach I believe that is a plan quoted maybe from a post by Coach Alley or someone.
I am of the belief that the Grand State would be easier to get passed now for one reason and that is money. I think that the Grand State would be a bigger draw at the gate and thus a bigger money maker for KSHSAA. While I would like to see either or both, I believe selling KSHSAA on the financials is the way to go.
Posted By: rjohnson Re: Dual State vs. Grand State - 02/04/09 04:21 PM
Do you think it would need to be centrally located as much as possible, this would make the chances of more wanting to attend? With out wrestlers wanting to be part of this it will never work. Who all that feels that they have a good chance at Placing this year at State would make a commitment to be part of this? Is there any facilities in mind? Coaches and Refs willing to commit? If its not through the KSHSAA than could a kid use another coach, theres allot of good coaches not coaching High School. How many would be willing to chip in funds, or time to help make this work? Whos got the list started? We could make this event the Shrine Bowl of wrestling in the years to come. Anyhow this is only my opinion, and this is only from the veiw of a Grand State.

Ronnie Johnson
Posted By: J.T. Croft Re: Dual State vs. Grand State - 02/04/09 04:54 PM
I think the Dual State would attract a bigger audience.
Posted By: HEADUP Re: Dual State vs. Grand State - 02/04/09 05:24 PM
you are right will, we need more dual matches for our kids. at pittsburg high they only have 2 home duals, very difficult to spark much "outside" interest when fans can't see it. i also agree that the top 2 teams from each regional would be enough, i just don't think it's competitive after that. it would certainly have to be centrally located to draw a fan base outside of parents and teammates. the shrine bowl idea is a great one, we should talk to some shrine members and see if they would be willing to use this as another fundraiser.
Posted By: Ricky Bobby Re: Dual State vs. Grand State - 02/04/09 08:26 PM
Originally Posted By: ROBERT M. GONZALES
Ricky Robby. Who are you ? Give me a call 1-785-587-2150 ex. 101
The plan you shared looks almost exactly like the original one that several of us drew up in 1995 or 1996 ??.


It’s me, Ricky Bobby. I found the plan at the bottom of the high school link on the usawks website. Overall it is a pretty good plan I think they should just add another week to the season so we can get more mat time for everyone. We are falling behind other states like Pennsylvania and Ohio who have their state tournaments in March when it comes time to Senior Nationals. Basketball ends two weeks after we do there’s no reason we can’t have another week on our schedule for an extra post season tournament. Football postseason last four weeks, there’s no reason we can’t ask for three weeks. Duals just seem to be easier for fans to catch onto the scoring of rather than a tournament where theoretically a team could win the championship with 14 third place finishers who pin in all of the matches except for the one they lost while another team has 14 first place finishers who each win by decision and places second. In this case who’s the better team? I know that if these two teams were allowed to meet up in a dual state format we would know.
Posted By: shawnbudke Re: Dual State vs. Grand State - 02/04/09 08:26 PM
Another option for potential sponsorship is the US Army or Marines. The US Army sponsored the Metro Classic last year and loved it.

If you were to pitch the dual format (because of the teamwork link to the Armed forces) you could probably get some form of sponsorship from the Army. The only real requirement they have is to be able to set up a booth. Not a big deal because they usually give away cool stuff at the booth.

Erik Hinkley.....where you at brother? He's the man with the know-how on how to do this stuff with Army sponsorship!

Shawn Budke
Posted By: matrix Re: Dual State vs. Grand State - 02/04/09 08:36 PM
i would like to see either one cus i think both would be fun but i gotta go with grand state cus the kids who could do well in grand state may com from teams that wouldnt go very far in dual state
Posted By: Chief Renegade Re: Dual State vs. Grand State - 02/05/09 12:23 PM
How about a Grand Dual State!
Posted By: Dylan Campbell Re: Dual State vs. Grand State - 02/05/09 02:41 PM
Isn't the idea of a Grand State - Dual State format to showcase our best wrestlers? Admittidly either would help the sport, but doing a Dual State tournament would exclude some of the best wrestlers in the state. If you have a Grand State your including the best of the best from every school regardless of the school's ability to compete at a dual level. Isn't this what we want the recruiters to see? Either helps the sport, but with half the wrestlers sitting at home because their team wasn't strong enough to qualify for dual state I don't think we accomplish the goal of 1)finding out who the absolute best in the state is and 2)presenting our best at a venue that would be attractive to recruiters from major college programs. As far as attendance, I don't think we'd have a problem packing the stands for a grand state tournament. You have the best 224 kids in the state going at it for the ultimate state title. Just 321A packs Gross Memorial every year, and I would suspect that if you have every true wrestling fan in the state from all classes show up to one venue, the stands will be full no matter where you have it.
Posted By: usawks1 Re: Dual State vs. Grand State - 02/05/09 03:02 PM
Great post Dylan ... I absolutely concur!!
Posted By: shawnbudke Re: Dual State vs. Grand State - 02/05/09 03:33 PM
Dylan,

Great post. I think you touched on the overarching issue...

What is the overall purpose of an event like this?

If the answer is to showcase individual wrestlers, etc. then you are spot on.

If the answer is to try and grow the general fan base and provide an event that is exciting to the general public and not just wrestling fans, then the dual tournament is the way to go (IMO).

In a perfect world there would be both....unfortunatelly we don't live in a perfect world.

I voted for the Dual because I think we have enough venues for individuals to show their stuff and accomplish their individual goals. The idea of a State dual appeals to me because I think it is exciting, appeals to a larger fan base, and is becoming a victim of some outdated rules.

In my opinion, dual meets get at the heart of what is great about the sport of wrestling...

1. It's for everyone (doesn't matter what shape or size)
2. Success is directly proportional to amount of effort you put into.
3. Discipline
4. Teamwork.....this is what makes sports so fun in high school. Representing your school, having the fans cheer for you, sweating, bleeding and competing with your buddies.....heck it doesn't get any better than that!

Just my 2 cents.

Shawn Budke
Posted By: BigPin22 Re: Dual State vs. Grand State - 02/05/09 04:01 PM
How would duel teams qualify? It makes no sense to use regular regional tournament results or state tournament results as a qualifier. That totaly defeats the purpose of a duel state championship. WHY would we use tournament points instead of duel results as a qualifier?

Maybe use league champions as a qualifier?

I would much rather see a grand state!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted By: BigPin22 Re: Dual State vs. Grand State - 02/05/09 04:08 PM
There is a huge difference in using tournament results for an eight man regional compared to a sixteen man regional!

Take St. James for example, they would probably score much higher as a team in a sixteen man regional than they would in an eight man regional.
Posted By: Ricky Bobby Re: Dual State vs. Grand State - 02/05/09 04:49 PM
This is how they do it south of the border. Very similar to football in that you have districts setup to have the duals:

V. OKLAHOMA DUAL TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP FORMAT
A. DIVISION OF SCHOOLS
1. There will be four classes of competition. Wrestling districts will be classified for a two year period using the most current A.D.M. available.
NOTE: Classifications for the 2007-2008 and 2008-2009 dual state districts were based on the 2005-2006 A.D.M. sheet.
2. Each class (6A, 5A, 4A, and 3A) will have eight districts.
3. Each team in a district will be required to wrestle a dual against other district teams. This may be done through duals or other multi-team competition. All district duals shall be completed by February 3, 2009.
4. The first place team (best won-lost record) in each district will advance to the dual state championship tournament.
NOTE: THE CHAMPION SHOULD NOTIFY THE ACTIVITIES ASSOCIATION AS SOON AS THE DISTRICT CHAMPION HAS BEEN DETERMINED.
5. Teams that have qualified for the Dual State Wrestling Championships should fax their seeding information form (mailed with dual state information in January) to the OSSAA by February 4, 2009.
B. 2009 DUAL STATE CHAMPIONSHIP FORMAT
1. The Dual Team State Wrestling Tournament will be held February 13-14, 2009.
2. The Dual Team State Wrestling Tournament will be a two day format hosted by Western Heights High School for Classes 5A-6A and Cushing High School for Classes 3A-4A.
3. The quarterfinals will be wrestled at 6:00 p.m. and 8:00 p.m. on Friday. The semi-finals will be wrestled at noon and 2:00 p.m. The championship finals will be wrestled at 7:00 p.m. on Saturday night.
4. Only one official per mat will be used for the quarterfinal and either one or two officials will be used for the semifinal rounds. Two officials per mat will be used for the championship finals. Officials will be selected by the OSSAA.
5. The times on the first round will alternate each year between the top and bottom of each bracket.
C. WEIGH-IN
1. There will be two weigh-ins for the Dual State Championships. Weigh-in times on Friday will begin at 4:30 p.m. for the 6:00 p.m. duals and will begin at 6:30 p.m. for the 8:00 p.m. duals. Weigh-in times on Saturday will begin at 10:30 a.m. for the 12 noon duals and 12:30 p.m. for the 2:00 p.m. duals.
2. All participants must weigh-in at the designated time for their dual and at the designated site.
3. The mat officials assigned by the OSSAA may conduct the weigh-ins. If not, a neutral party should be present to conduct the weigh-ins. If it is not possible to have a neutral party available, a district administrator (principal or athletic director) should be present to conduct the weigh-ins.
4. There will not be a weight allowance for the Dual State Championships except for the two pound growth allowance. However, there will be a one pound allowance for the second weigh-in per National Federation Rule 4-5-5.
5. Dual State is a post-season state championship event and the weight certification rule will be in effect which states, “Once you certify your minimum weight, you can only weigh-in one weight class above your minimum weight and still keep that minimum weight. A wrestler who weighs in at any time more than one weight class above his/her minimum weight, his/her minimum weight will move up accordingly.”
6. All wrestlers must weigh-in on Friday to weigh-in on Saturday.
7. Teams may alter their line-up from Friday to Saturday providing they are in compliance with the weigh-in certification regulations. (see II-D-17)
8. Random draw of weight classes to determine the beginning of a dual at Dual State will be drawn at the OSSAA office for each day of competition.
D. SEEDING AND BRACKETING OF DUAL STATE CHAMPIONSHIPS
1. A committee selected by the president of the Oklahoma Wrestling Coaches' Association will assist the OSSAA in seeding the Dual State Championships, if needed. Members of this committee will consist of two representatives from each class. One representative will be from the west and the other from the east. A committee member’s team may not be participating in the Dual State Championships.
2. The seeding criteria for the Dual State Wrestling Championships will be as follows:
a. Head to Head Competition. (Teams that have tied during the regular season will use the tie breaker criteria. If two teams have evenly split wins (one-one, two-two, etc.) during the season, the last match wrestled will count towards a team’s won-loss record.)
b. Record against common opponent.
Wrestling 2008-09
260 OSSAA
c. OWCA state ratings.
d. Tournament placings at the same tournament after January 1st.
e. Coaches/OSSAA committee.
3. The bracket for each class of the Dual State Championships will be bracketed as follows:
a. The winners of districts 1, 2, 3, and 4 will be seeded.
b. The winners of districts 5, 6, 7, and 8 will be seeded.
c. Seeds will be placed on the bracket as follows:
d. W1 - E4; E2 - W3 (top of bracket)
e. E1 - W4; W2 - E3 (bottom of bracket)
E. CRITERIA FOR SETTLING TIES IN A DUAL MEET AND TIES IN THE DUAL STATE DISTRICT TEAM STANDINGS
1. In dual meet competition, if teams have identical scores, the following team tie-breaking system shall be used to determine the winner.
a. The team whose opposing wrestlers or team has been penalized the greater number of team points for flagrant or unsportsmanlike conduct shall be declared the winner.
b. The team having won the greater number of matches (including forfeits) shall be declared the winner.
c. The team having accumulated the greater total number of falls, defaults, forfeits and disqualifications shall be declared the winner..
d. The team having the greater number of technical falls shall be declared the winner.
e. The team having the greater number of major decisions shall be declared the winner.
f. The team having the greater number (total match points) of first-point(s) scored shall be declared the winner.
g. The team having the greater number of points for near-falls shall be declared the winner.
h. The team having the greater number of takedowns shall be declared the winner.
i. The team having the greater number of reversals shall be declared the winner.
j. The team having the greater number of escapes shall be declared the winner.
k. The team whose opponent has been penalized the greater number of points for stalling.
l. The team whose opponent has been warned more often for stalling.
m. The team whose opponent has the greater number of points for all other infractions (i.e. false starts).
n. If none of the above resolves the tie, a flip of a disk will determine the winner.
Upon determining the winning team by use of the tiebreaking system, a single team point shall be added to the prevailing team. The method of recording the score in breaking team ties shall be the score followed by the letter of the criterion that broke the tie (e.g. Team A-16; Team B-17, criterion e).
2. If two teams are tied in the dual state district team standing, the team that won over the other team shall be the district champion.
3. If three or more teams are tied in the dual state district team standing, the following criteria will be used:
a. Begin with the tiebreaking criteria listed in V-E-1, use only the matches wrestled among the tied teams.
b. Begin with the first criteria among the tied teams, if you do not have a winner, only the teams tied with this criteria will advance on to the next criteria. (Example: Team A – penalized zero team points for flagrant or unsportsmanlike conduct; Team B – penalized zero team points for flagrant or unsportsmanlike conduct; Team C – penalized zero team points for flagrant or unsportsmanlike conduct; Team D – penalized one team point for unsportsmanlike conduct. Teams A, B, and C are all tied on criteria a. and will advance to criteria b. Team D drops out of the tiebreaking process.)
c. Anytime the tiebreaking criteria reduces the number of teams tied to two, the team that won over the other team shall be the district champion.
F. FORFEIT POLICY
1. If the first place finisher from a dual state district decides not to participate in the dual state tournament, they will not be allowed to enter regional tournament competition.
2. If the first place finisher from a dual state district intentionally violates the spirit of the sport of wrestling by sending a junior varsity team or a junior varsity/varsity team to the dual state tournament, the team or individual(s) will not be allowed to enter regional tournament competition.
3. Teams forfeiting a district dual will count a loss on their team record and a point against their team schedule. They will also forfeit the right to compete for the district championship. A team receiving a forfeit will count a win on their team record and a point against their team schedule.
G. AWARDS
1. Each dual district champion will receive a championship plaque.
2. The runner-up and championship teams of the Dual State Tournament will receive an appropriate trophy. The championship and runner-up coaches will receive a coach's achievement plaque.
H. FINANCIAL ARRANGEMENTS
The Activities Association will send all needed information to each dual state site. This information will include admission prices ($5.00 for adults and students), tickets, and complimentary pass regulations.

Here are how the districts stack up:
http://www.ossaa.com/partners/ossaa/sports/wrestling/dual_state_districts.pdf
Posted By: yzgi Re: Dual State vs. Grand State - 02/05/09 05:17 PM
You could do a dual grand state by making the State champions from each class into a dual team and have a duals tournament between State Champion dual teams.
Posted By: sportsfan02 Re: Dual State vs. Grand State - 02/05/09 05:19 PM
Originally Posted By: shawnbudke

If the answer is to try and grow the general fan base and provide an event that is exciting to the general public and not just wrestling fans, then the dual tournament is the way to go (IMO).

I still am not convinced that the dual tournament would draw better than the Grand State. We have history to know that the Grand State drew well in this state but I don't see the dual format drawing much from outside the teams participating at the state level. I would be curious to hear how well the dual format draws from the general public in other states.
Posted By: BigPin22 Re: Dual State vs. Grand State - 02/05/09 06:07 PM
Originally Posted By: yzgi
You could do a dual grand state by making the State champions from each class into a dual team and have a duals tournament between State Champion dual teams.


That sounds like a great event!!!
Posted By: XGHSWC Re: Dual State vs. Grand State - 02/05/09 06:27 PM
The reason that other states have such great success with the Dual State is because it comes before regionals so you always get the best teams with all of their kids. It won't work as well and achieve the objective otherwise. The pit fall is injuries prior to Traditional State. Grand State will never achieve the objective that you want it to because it comes after tradional state and you will never get all of the best kids which again will not achieve the objective. This is why the All Star match never achieves its objective which seems to be to prove which class is the best.
Posted By: usawks1 Re: Dual State vs. Grand State - 02/05/09 06:34 PM
Unless KSHSAA moved things back a week, had classification regionals, had classification State, and did a combined State!!
Posted By: sportsfan02 Re: Dual State vs. Grand State - 02/05/09 06:35 PM
I believe if a Grand State was KSHSAA sanctioned and the week following high school state you would get all the state placers to attend.
Posted By: Conrad1 Re: Dual State vs. Grand State - 02/06/09 05:02 AM
I agree with MR.Campbell it makes the most sense to me and it would be awesome to see the top 2 or even 4 from each weight class duke it out to be the best in Kansas
Posted By: Conrad1 Re: Dual State vs. Grand State - 02/06/09 06:26 AM
I also think you would not have a problem with the placers comeing back one more week to try to be the best in the whole state. not just their class
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