Kansas Wrestling
Posted By: Shelstin JUNIOR HIGH COACHES-Season of Sport survey - 02/05/09 03:54 PM
I have made a proposal to my JH activities director to look into changing the season of junior high wrestling to begin after football season instead of as it is currently, beginning after Christmas break. He asked me to gauge support for my proposal, and if there was ample support he would bring it to the new league when they meet. I would even consider chairing a committee to standardize JH season of sport through KSHSAA as is done in high school, but I don't feel a lot of support for that. I understand that those in Eastern Kansas already wrestle before Christmas in most cases. We are in the process of developing a new JH league and this would be an ideal time for consideration. Currently, most schools in western Kansas have boys basketball after football, with girls basketball after Christmas. This allows, in theory, 7th and 8th grade boys to "try" both sports. We begin JH wrestling after Christmas Break and end it in the middle of March.

I would like to see the season of sport for BOYS basketball moved to January through mid March, GIRLS basketball to mid October through December, and wrestling to mid October through December for the following reasons.

1) I feel it would increase wrestling participation on the Junior High level without hurting basketball participation. We would no longer be in conflict with most of the major kids tournaments after Christmas. It would allow our talented wrestlers to have a longer, more competitive season if they desired without making the decision to choose "kids" wrestling OR JH wrestling. Mandating kids to choose between larger tournaments OR the team building aspects of school wrestling is a huge issue, in my opinion.

2) It will still allow those interested in basketball to participate after Christmas, yet permit them to participate in "kids" tournaments if their school allowed since wrestling is not their season of sport.

I know that this has been under consideration for years, and with the current development of several new leagues in western Kansas it would be an ideal time for implementation. I am only speaking for myself, but in my community it has the support of the kids coaches as well as the vast majority of parents. If you have any additional thoughts on this please let me know, both pro and con. We need to move very quickly. I will also be conducting informal polls at every meet and tournament for the rest of our school season.

email me at rcue@ulysses.org

Rick Cue
Ulysses
Rick,

I personally am in favor of such an arrangement as you describe and for the reasons you state. We have had discussions in our JH League but, obviously, there has not been a change. I think it is a better arrangment for both Wrestling vis-a-vis KIDS tournaments and and also basketball vis-a-vis the spring/summer MAYB seasons getting underway.

Greg Mann
Norton, KS
That is the format seasons run in the Frontier and Pioneer Leagues in East Central Kansas,
Posted By: RJW1 Re: JUNIOR HIGH COACHES-Season of Sport survey - 02/05/09 04:22 PM
Coach Cue-

I am really in favor of your proposal. I have always thought having the middle school season right after football makes the most sense and tried to push for it in the NWKL when I coached middle school 8 years ago. Most of the NWKL coaches were in favor of it, but it got shot down by the administrators. Hopefully, our new league will put the middle school season where you suggest!
I would love to have jh wrestling right after football, but it could kill our program. We are the only team in our league to have wrestling and the other schools wouldn't change the current set-up to accommodate us. That would put us in a position where we are going head to head with jh basketball. In a 1A there just aren't that many boys to spread out. I would love for KSHSAA to assign jh seasons!
Coach I Think this would be a great Idea and it has been brought up before amongst our coaches. This would benefit everyone. Thank you

Brian Means
Goddard junior high Wrestling coach
I agree with the proposal. It is a good idea and will help some coaches that are both high school and jr. high coaches.
Andy Kenney
Head JR high wrestling
Assistant high school wrestling
Phillipsburg
Rick,
As you know I tried to get that going when I was in Ulysses and we did get an extention but not in competition dates. I agree that with the creation of the new league that things will hopefully change. From the feedback you have gotten we know that this is a topic that needs to be addressed. Hopefully all AD's will not drag their feet on this and get something done without all the old excuses of old.....
Originally Posted By: ak1
I agree with the proposal. It is a good idea and will help some coaches that are both high school and jr. high coaches.
Andy Kenney
Head JR high wrestling
Assistant high school wrestling
Phillipsburg


That is a great point that I had not considered. Most of the JH competition would not conflict with the high school competitive season.
We start right after Football and go to through the first week of the high school season, which in my opinion is very short, but it does allow some of us to coach both the middle and high school levels.

Basketball starts the day after wrestling is over and they go into March. Not really fair, but hopefully they get burned out on basketball!
And the practices and competitions really interfere if you happen to coach HS Football too!
would this allow for a jr high state. that would be nice.
I would love to see it changed for the same reasons I have lost kids to MAYB, it would give more athletes the opportunity to try both sports. And it would allow us to try and invite teams or to attend tournaments with teams from central and eastern KS that we see in high school competitions. With the changes that are going to take place in the next couple of years in western ks with the leagues hopefully we can get something like this through.
Posted By: jeb Re: JUNIOR HIGH COACHES-Season of Sport survey - 02/05/09 07:16 PM
We also start fight after football, it allows kids to do both sports. I for one am also high school coach so i only overlap one week. It is a short fast moving season, but it can get more kids exposed to wrestling. You can get kids who want to try it without giving up basketball if it doesnt work out.


Jared Bammes
Oskaloosa
Rick,

Get this going with the ADs, Colby's wrestling club has always wanted this. It would allow our JR. High kids to compete at the kids Salina tournament, as well as others. It sounds like alot of other schools out west are in favor of this also.
It seems that most of the feedback is positive. We dualed Dodge City tonight and they are also in favor. I don't see any potential issues other than it changes the status quo. I truly believe that it is in the best interest of wrestling in Kansas.
I agree with this proposal. Take it another step. Since JH kids rarely wrestle on weekends free them from not being able to go to open tournaments. There are several events in October, November and December that these kids should be allowed to attend if it doesn't conflict with their JH schedule.
Am not a coach, but know a change is definitely needed that would allow the middle school wrestling season to be consistent state wide.

Our middle school season started December 8th and will end the first weekend of March with the Pioneer League meet. Currently our middle school season does not allow for wrestling club tournaments except for subs, district and state. (We can maybe get an early Oklahoma tournament in but that is about all.)

As has been stated before, we strongly support our middle school program! However, by implementing this change it would allow for wrestling tournaments after Christmas.

Also agree with Cokeley that if there is not a middle school tournament on a weekend there is a big tournament (USJOC), a wrestler should be able to attend it. However, when you are out for middle school wrestling, that would take precedence over any club tournament. Just believe our wrestlers should be able to attend club tournaments as long as it does not conflict with the middle school schedule.

This change in the season would also let kids that just started wrestling in middle school to wrestle club for longer than subs, district and state. I don't know of too many wrestlers that just started in middle school who are interested in club when there are approximately three weeks left. Most of them would probably be eliminated at the subdistrict level anyway. However, with this change many of them would benefit from the additional coaching kids club has to offer.

It sure would be nice to see these changes asap. Would like to be able to go to USJOC next year!!!
I see many coaches saying that they lose participation to roundball. Can we convice KSHSAA to ban roundball altogether, as it is a disease isn't it? Maybe we can get the CDC involved. (Will, that is the Center for Disease Control)
I think that it is important to understand that if you request too much, you will get nothing. I believe that the season of sport change in western Kansas is possible. I personally do not oppose allowing JH kids to wrestle in kids tournaments if they are open, but it will never pass because it opens too many other doors. This will never pass if it does not have administrative support. To gain that, it is imperative that you discuss this with your administration. It simply makes sense to have all of Kansas on a similar wrestling schedule for junior high age kids. It's good for our sport, and it does not hurt basketball. Keep in mind that administrators have to look at the big picture, and it would be easier for them to leave things as they are.
We have received some very encouraging feedback on this proposal. There will never be a better time for this to move forward than now. PLEASE bring this to attention of other coaches and administrators in a respective, positive way. If you are a Junior High coach, discuss this at your tournaments and in your meetings, but this needs to happen fast. Leagues will begin scheduling in March, from what I understand. It won't happen if there is not a strong concensus administratively. I have been hoping for this since 1993 when I moved to Kansas, and there is a window of opportunity now that we will not have again.

Rick Cue
Ulysses
I wish we had a season like your talking about. Here in USD-500, our season starts right after football and ends the first Monday in December. We barely have time to teach kids the basics before they are off playing basketball, starting the day after our season ends and ending in March. I have noticed that unless they are involved in a kids club (there are none in KCK) that the high schools really struggle. I feed into one of the major high schools in district 500 and I know that most of the other Jr High coaches feel like I do, we need more time to actually coach.
The east part of the state already does put the Jr. High Season before Christmas break. And if I'm not mistaken, Doug Moore of Concordia worked hard to change the seasons in their league.
It only makes common sense and we all should make this change.
It should be noted that in schools where access to two gyms is impossible that middle schools could run their girls ******ball programs at the same time as the wrestling season and thereby free up gym space for both girls and boys ******ball teams during their repective seasons. This would eliminate the need for those late evening practices that many schools are forced to do. Also, they could possibly use the same coach for both boys and girls teams.
Thanks Coach Johnson. If respected high school coaches like you and Doug are on board, guys who have won state titles, that should mean a lot.

Rick
The NCKL made the switch from after Christmas to before around nine years ago. I don't believe anyone is dissatisfied with the switch. We actually gained a week to our season by making the switch. Junior high football ends on a Thursday and we start practice the following Wednesday. We get 13 practices in before our first competition. Before the switch we had two tournaments, we are now able to attend four as a result. This also benefitted basketball tremendously. We have eight BB teams 7th grade through varsity and access to five gyms, which is more than most schools. Junior high teams were sharing time and practiced about an hour and fifteen minutes. Freshman teams were trading off practicing before school one week and after school the next. By changing the format, which is JH wrestling and JH girls BB before X-mas and JH boys after, this freed up gym space and they are now able to practice longer. The hardest sale in my opinion is the athletic directors. When the switch is made all new schedules have to be made, but this is a one-time thing and some tweaking can be done after the initial switch. I too believe that everyone should get on the same page, as we can't compete with the schools to the west of us, which would be the one negative. As near as I can tell because many have asked (NCAA, MCL, Dodge City, AVL) the coaches are in agreement and they want to switch. One last thing that has been brought to my attention is the fact that coaches are getting increasingly hard to find, especially in the junior high ranks. I have a friend who coaches both JH girls and then boys BB because he wants to, plus the school doesn't have to go searching for more coaches. These are my observations and if anyone has any questions feel free to contact me. I've been in Concordia for 28 years and most everyone knows where to find me.

Doug Moore
It is tiring hearing that "you can't ask for too much" when going to the KSHSAA. They work for the schools, not vice versa. Change that is supported by a simple majority should be ushered in as soon as possible. The administrators are employed by us and they should be reminded of that fact. Proposals for change should be properly assempled, documented, lobbied for and if more than 50% of the parents, coaches, and athletes the change should take place now. It is simply not acceptable that "they won't consider too much change!" Our tax dollars pay for their jobs so our demands should be met no matter how many in number.
The topic here is when to hold junior high wrestling season. The KSHSAA does not set seasons of sport for junior high/middle school sports.
Egg,

Originally Posted By: Shelstin
I think that it is important to understand that if you request too much, you will get nothing. I believe that the season of sport change in western Kansas is possible. I personally do not oppose allowing JH kids to wrestle in kids tournaments if they are open, but it will never pass because it opens too many other doors. This will never pass if it does not have administrative support. To gain that, it is imperative that you discuss this with your administration. It simply makes sense to have all of Kansas on a similar wrestling schedule for junior high age kids. It's good for our sport, and it does not hurt basketball. Keep in mind that administrators have to look at the big picture, and it would be easier for them to leave things as they are.


I have read it time and time again. "Do not ask for too much." Why not!? If the environment outside of your organization is changing faster than your organization, then your organization will become obsolete. Do you believe that? Do you have any idea who said it? KSHSAA, if a MS or JH belongs, sets the rules for NOT being able to compete in open tournaments. Read the entire post and then pop off. Become part of a solution and quite being part of the problem.
I believe that egg was simply stating a fact to this Jr. High Season topic. The KSHSAA has nothing to do with when the season is held. Rick Cue started the topic to let us know that now is the best time for SW Kansas to change, since they are changing Leagues in both High School and Jr. High.
Originally Posted By: Cyclone
Am not a coach, but know a change is definitely needed that would allow the middle school wrestling season to be consistent state wide.

Our middle school season started December 8th and will end the first weekend of March with the Pioneer League meet. Currently our middle school season does not allow for wrestling club tournaments except for subs, district and state. (We can maybe get an early Oklahoma tournament in but that is about all.)

As has been stated before, we strongly support our middle school program! However, by implementing this change it would allow for wrestling tournaments after Christmas.

Also agree with Cokeley that if there is not a middle school tournament on a weekend there is a big tournament (USJOC), a wrestler should be able to attend it. However, when you are out for middle school wrestling, that would take precedence over any club tournament. Just believe our wrestlers should be able to attend club tournaments as long as it does not conflict with the middle school schedule.

This change in the season would also let kids that just started wrestling in middle school to wrestle club for longer than subs, district and state. I don't know of too many wrestlers that just started in middle school who are interested in club when there are approximately three weeks left. Most of them would probably be eliminated at the subdistrict level anyway. However, with this change many of them would benefit from the additional coaching kids club has to offer.

It sure would be nice to see these changes asap. Would like to be able to go to USJOC next year!!!



Billy,

And I believe neither your nor Egg read the entire post as there are other subtopics that do refer to changes that would have to be adopted by KSHSAA. On top of that you and Egg both know that taking something to the administration is nearly the same as taking something to KSHSAA since they are compromised of and run by administrators, former administrators, coaches, and other with academic backgrounds. Rick talked of a standardized season, that will only happen if KSHSAA gets involved. I believe that you work for EGG and you are sucking up to him. smile
I have read the entire post. As is often the case, the original post ended being morphed into something else. Coach Cue was stating what a great thing for wrestling it would be if all school could have the JH wrestling season right after football season; not about the KSHSAA mandating a standardized JH wrestling season, or the KSHSAA allowing open competition during a TEAM season, or having a JH State Tournament, or any of the other things that got thrown into this topic line.

The KSHSAA does not set season of sport in wrestling (or any other JH sport); that is left to local schools to determine. For various reasons not all schools believe this is a good idea and therefore not all schools wrestle in such a manner.
Sorry, Will, this is one time that you can't take the KSHSAA to the wood shed.

Just to make clear--I am in 100% support of having JH wrestling right after football season and before Christmas. I have brought this topic up for discussion in our league. I will do so again.

Finally, Coach Johnson has no need to "suck up" to me or anyone else. The addition of the little smiley face after your remark does not lessen its demeaning nature.


Greg Mann
Norton
Actually, the smiley face always helps!
Egg,

Lighten up dude! There is nothing wrong with a little roasting and/or brown nosing so I didn't consider my comment to be in least bit demeaning. For the record, I am glad you are not my boss!

You are right, the post "morphed" and my comments regarding KSHSAA were postmorping so they were, in my opinion, in the right place. Thanks for trying to discredit my comments again.
No, it actually doesn't.

Greg Mann
Norton
Will,

I am also very glad I am not your boss.

Greg Mann
Norton
Greg,

You know what would be fun? It would be awesome if I were YOUR boss! I could show you a thing or two about being a superintendent and having a good time while doing it!
Will,

According to several of your earlier posts, you are my boss.

Are you having a good time?


Greg Mann
Norton
Greg,

I am! I have a good time every day. I love it when you post, that makes my day. In the organizational structure that you mention I am too far removed from your box to be your boss. I would rather employ you as my direct report. Here is your first task: SELF EVALUATION

Performance Evaluation Form

1 = Needs Development (N)
2 = Meets Expectations (M)
3 = Meets Most Expectations, Exceeds Some Expectations (M+)
4 = Exceeds Expectations (E)

Employee Name: Greg Mann Date: February 10,2009

Section 1: Self Development or Development of Others:
Objectives (Work or Behavior) N M M + E
1. Has the employee taken steps for self-improvement (University classwork, field specific training, or seminars)? 1 2 3 4
2. As a manager, did he/she hold regular staff meetings to communicate priorities and address issues?

Or, did the employee contribute in staff meetings conducted by his/her manager and contribute toward the departmental/company objectives? 1 2 3 4
3. As a manager, did the employee provide regular feedback to their employees around agreed upon objectives? 1 2 3 4
4. When considering the interpersonal and professional behavior of the individual, is the employee a role model to others in the company? 1 2 3 4
5. (Optional: Department objective) 1 2 3 4
6. (Optional: Department objective) 1 2 3 4

Comments:


Section 2: Continuous Improvement:
Objectives (Work or Behavior) N M M + E
1. Does the employee operate in a collaborative manner with their peers and other departments? 1 2 3 4
2. Does the employee seek out best practices to perform their function? 1 2 3 4
3. Has this employee improved at least one process in their area of responsibility this year? 1 2 3 4
4. Would this employee’s peers or co-workers consider them an advocate of continuous improvement? (use of lean practices, continuous improvement) 1 2 3 4
5. (Optional: Department objective) 1 2 3 4
6. (Optional: Department objective) 1 2 3 4

Comments:


Section 3: Innovation:
Objectives (Work or Behavior) N M M + E
1. Does this person encourage initiation, implementation, and/or development of new ideas, products, processes or services to create a competitive advantage? 1 2 3 4
2. Does the employee challenge the status quo through innovative thinking and offering new ideas? 1 2 3 4
3. Has this person offered or suggested an innovative idea around a product, process, or service? 1 2 3 4
4. As a manager, does this person encourage others to think creatively and support an environment where new ideas and concepts are embraced? 1 2 3 4
5. (Optional: Department objective) 1 2 3 4
6. (Optional: Department objective) 1 2 3 4

Comments:


Section 4: Quality and Safety:
Objectives (Work or Behavior) N M M + E
1. Does the employee understand the needs of their respective customer(s)? 1 2 3 4
2. Does the employee hold themselves to the highest level of quality standard in the work they do? 1 2 3 4
3. As a manager, does the employee clearly communicate the importance of quality in their area of responsibility? 1 2 3 4
4. As a manager, does the employee clearly communicate the importance of a safe work environment in their work place? 1 2 3 4
5. Does the employee respect the importance of safety and operate in a safe manner? 1 2 3 4
6. (Optional: Department objective) 1 2 3 4

Comments:


Calculation: (Above Sections 1 through 4)

Sub Total: Average (total points divided by the number of questions answered)


Section 5: Department Specific Evaluation Calculation (Department Metrics/Scorecard)

Attach individual department evaluation. Determine Score for this section on a scale of 1 to 4.

Sub Total: (Total points divided by number of objectives measured.)



Overall Total: (50% weighting for each Sub Total = Overall Total.)


Section 6: Career Development

Career Objectives:
o What are the employee’s short and long term career objectives?

Manager Comments:


Action Plan, Training and Development:
o Employee suggested action plan items for the next calendar year.

Manager Comments:


Next Performance Review specifics:
o Manager/Employee follow up dates.


Signatures:

Employee: Date:

Manager: Date:
Will,

After performing a self-evaluation using the evaluation form you provided, (nice google by the way), I have determined that if I worked for you directly I would be YOUR BEST EMPLOYEE EVER.

I am expecting a raise.

Good night.

Greg Mann
Norton, KS
Okay, when I made my initial post, I did include items that were not mentioned in the original topic of discussion by Coach Cue (Shelstin). Sorry about that.

I just feel very strongly about some of the other aspects of middle school wrestling. I would very much like to see not only the middle school season changed to be consistent state wide but provisions to allow wrestlers to compete at kids club tournaments as long as it does not interfer with middle school tournaments. That is where this got off on another tangent. Again, sorry.

Anyway as I stated before I am not a coach, therefore, I am not aware of KSHSAA regulations and what they have a say in other than what is referred to in the handbook.

So all that being said, can the season be changed in an existing league as opposed to one that is now being formed? Where do we go from here?

It appears that some western Kansas coaches are in agreement with trying to change the wrestling season. Are school officials/ADs in these districts in agreement also?

Thanks.
Yes, the time of the year that wrestling season occurs can be changed in an existing league. It depends on the league as to how changes are handled; for example, in some leagues, changes of this kind might require a recommendation of the coaches (and probably with a plan as to how it would work) be made to the principals and/or ADs of the member schools; and then approved by them. It might then have to be approved by the Supts; and in some/most leagues, that may also then require the approval of the respecitve BOE's.

The kicker here, is that while it may be a great idea (and what was originally being discussed is a GREAT idea) not all are automatically going to see that it is a great idea. There may be personnel concerns, facility concerns, transportation issues, etc. etc. There may also be an unawareness of why this change is an issue.

If this is approached from the standpoint/attitude that this is "great for wrestling and that is all you need to know;" or, "this should pass because I want it;" it won't go too far or very fast. For schools to make this change requires that they understand that there are benefits to be had that are more global. For example, why is this change a good thing for girls JH BB? Always remember that there are many activities and programs competing for attention and limited time and resources.

Finally, it is important to keep in mind that not all persons associated with schools (principals, ADs, supts. BOE members, etc.) are up to speed on wrestling and its somewhat unique needs. I don't know the numbers now, but several years ago the number of administrators in Kansas with bb backgrounds was much greater than those with wrestling backgrounds; doubt the ratio has changed much.

What I find most ironic in all this, is that western Kansas, generally considered to be the historical wrestling hotbed of Kansas, is basically the last area of the state to still have JH/MS wrestling beginning after Christmas.

Greg Mann
Norton
Greg, I was about to make a very similar post. It was excellent. Thank you. I know for a fact that we have people that are involved in the decision making process reading this board now, and some of what has been placed here is counter productive. I ask that we please stay on topic.

It is my understanding that the schools that may be most involved this league process are Hugoton, Holcomb, Liberal South, Liberal West, Goodland, Colby, Scott City, Oakley and Norton. If you are a coach and have any administrative contacts in those schools I ask that you respectfully make an attempt to approach them on this issue. I will attempt to gain email addresses of the Junior High Coaches of the above mentioned schools to get their input on this topic. Once again, please address this in your coaches meetings. If the concensus is to maintain things as they are, so be it. The next league meeting will be March 4th.

Rick Cue
Ulysses
Anyone know what our border states do as far as jh wrestling? Do their state associations set their seasons?
We are wrestling at Lamar, CO. I will ask on Thursday.
If I have not responded to an email that you sent me, I apologize. For some reason, I opened up the spam filter on my computer and I found four emails this morning. I had been deleting that every day witout opening it. There were two from a school email account and two private accounts. So, if I did not reply, please get back with me and I promise to respond. I will answer every email.

Up to this point, the response is nearly unanimously supportive. There is some confusion, however. NO ONE other than the schools establish the season of sport for ALL junior high sports. Most follow very similar start and end dates, but they are set by the individual schools. Most leagues have agreements, but the KSHSAA is not involved.

This is how they do it in Colorado. You get there. You wait for the girls to get out of your locker room. This takes a while. Then when you do get to wrestle, they call your first guy, against two different guys, on two different mats, So he goes out and wrestles one guy, then they call him again in about 5 minutes for the other guy, so you go tell them that he just wrestled, so they say okay, we will give you more time, and give you about one more minute to report. Then, it looks like some of your guys are wrestling about two weight classes up, and you don't know what weight class, but no one seems to have weigh in sheets. So you wrestle anyway, The official in the rock band T-shirt with cool skulls and stuff and baseball cap lets a guy that you are wrestling grab on the the edge of the mat while your guy is pulling on both ankles, and gives running boy a point for an escape and puts them upon their feet. Then you explain it to him, and how in Kansas that would be pretty much illegal to hold on to the mat like a five year old boy on the way to the dentist, and he says, ok, you're right..and he takes an escape point off, and we win. A fleeing the mat conversation would have been fruitless, but that's ok at this point. That was at...oh...the 155-167 pound weight class. I think we skipped down to about the 85-105 weight class, and gone directly into the, oh...120-135 pound weight class, but no one really knows whats going on or what weight class is next, but they are calling heavyweights and everyone is getting there, so I guess it's okay. We know it's over when the guy with the little portable speaker disappears. That's how they do it there. Not a lot of regulation with starting dates, ending dates, no match count or point system...just wrestle em baby!! Yeah, kind of like that. And I really seem to like the new officials uniforms, since I am kind of partial to bands with skulls on the t-shirts. They don't they have to wear head gear or get hair cuts either. Our kids think that's cool and wanted to do that too, but I really don't, so I made them sad. They have some tough kids, a few had really big scary tattoos and everything. Skulls seem to be very popular there. I think I like Kansas better, come to think of it. Does that help any?

Rick
Glad to be able to cross back home
Were you in Lamar?

Mann
I apologize for gettiing off track. I was going to erase that post, but you had already responded to it. Yes, that post was a little frustration coming out. I guess in Colorado they just match up the JH kids, don't really follow weight classes, just lump them up and wrestle them. I had mine at weight, and I have a few younger kids that ran into pretty good kids that looked quite a bit bigger. Maybe they were just more mature. I really like the way we do things here. It totally reinforces everything we do is the right thing to do for kids. There were no skin checks either, and we have had NO problems with skin infection this year. I took a can of skin shield, and I hope that was enough to keep us in good shape. Back to the original post. I talked to a few coaches and there seems to be nothing set by the state for JH wrestling in Colorado. Not even head gear. It all semed a little surreal, since we are so organized, in my opinion, with everything we do in Kansas.
Sorry, I did not read closely; up above you said you were going to Lamar.

Things have obviously changed there. When I was coaching at Abe Hubert JH in GC back in the late 70's and 80's we still had freshmen and we started our freshmen season dueling Lamar. When we went there at that time it was run like a "real" dual even had on-site shoulder-to-shoulder weigh-ins and refs in stripes!

I loved your description of the event; the dress of the ref the boy hanging on to the edge of the mat, and the guy with the portable PA packing up and leaving. Made me laugh out loud!

Greg Mann
Norton
I don't mean anyone disrespect over there. Not at all, because they obviously put in a lot of effort matching all of those kids up. And, they did have a lot of tough kids that were technically very solid for their age. I just really like the fact that we do things much more like the high school and the National Federation. The refs actually weren't too bad, but I think it looked bad, if that makes any sense. It was still a lot of fun.
Originally Posted By: DOUG MOORE
The NCKL made the switch from after Christmas to before around nine years ago. I don't believe anyone is dissatisfied with the switch. We actually gained a week to our season by making the switch. Junior high football ends on a Thursday and we start practice the following Wednesday. We get 13 practices in before our first competition. Before the switch we had two tournaments, we are now able to attend four as a result. This also benefitted basketball tremendously. We have eight BB teams 7th grade through varsity and access to five gyms, which is more than most schools. Junior high teams were sharing time and practiced about an hour and fifteen minutes. Freshman teams were trading off practicing before school one week and after school the next. By changing the format, which is JH wrestling and JH girls BB before X-mas and JH boys after, this freed up gym space and they are now able to practice longer. The hardest sale in my opinion is the athletic directors. When the switch is made all new schedules have to be made, but this is a one-time thing and some tweaking can be done after the initial switch. I too believe that everyone should get on the same page, as we can't compete with the schools to the west of us, which would be the one negative. As near as I can tell because many have asked (NCAA, MCL, Dodge City, AVL) the coaches are in agreement and they want to switch. One last thing that has been brought to my attention is the fact that coaches are getting increasingly hard to find, especially in the junior high ranks. I have a friend who coaches both JH girls and then boys BB because he wants to, plus the school doesn't have to go searching for more coaches. These are my observations and if anyone has any questions feel free to contact me. I've been in Concordia for 28 years and most everyone knows where to find me.

Doug Moore


I wanted to put Doug's thoughts on the bottom of this thread. I respect him tremendously. This is still on the table, and it seems to have some support. I don't want to let it die, as I honestly feel that it is in the best interest of wrestling in Kansas. I can't emphasize enough how important I believe the team aspect of Junior High wrestling is to the High School programs. I also completely understand the merits of a strong kids program, and I believe that they can co-exist very well.
Rick Cue
Ulysses
Posted By: nate Re: JUNIOR HIGH COACHES-Season of Sport survey - 03/30/09 01:50 PM
All Lawrence Junior Highs start wrestling in late October and run until winter break.
I have received emails stating that Great Bend and Hays are also changing their season to immediately after football.
Update. Most of the schools in Southwest Kansas have decided to move the junior high wrestling season to immediately after football beginning next season. The High Plains League (Hugoton, Cimarron, Holcomb, Sublette and Lakin I believe) will wrestle after Christmas. I have been told by our junior high activities director that the schools in Northwest Kansas may also continue to wrestle after Christmas. To be honest, I am not sure about them, and that decision may not have been made yet. There is still the possibility that the schools in SW Kansas could go back to the old schedule when the new league starts up in 2010-2011. It's a start. I hope it works.
There have been some discussion about the change in season among the schools of the Mid-Continent League; to date there has been nothing definitive. IMO, a decision is a year away and will be dependent upon what the out-of-league schools with whom we compete do with their schedules.
Greg, to facilitate our scheduling, we are going south now instead of north for most of our competition. We are adding tournaments in Dumas and Boy's Ranch, Texas. I hope it works out for the northern Kansas schools. This change will really cut into my bow hunting time, but it will make our wrestling teams better, in my honest opinion.
it seems that everyone on here is in favor of this season change. my question is, is there any reason basketball people would not support this? if so, why? how about administrators? if everyone can get on board it seems it should be able to be done...granted i know sometimes governing bodies such as the kshsaa aren't the most efficient but nevertheless...
the KSHSAA does not set the time of seasons for JH and Middle School sports.

Positives for changing JH Wrestling Season:

1. Coaching Staffs can be same
2. Butts up with Federated season
3. if all move:
a. more opponents possible;
b. more comp dates available;
c. a more standardized season
4. Butts up with MAYB-type competition for the "before Chrismas" basketball season (unless both Boys & Girls BB are played after Christmas).

Negatives for Changing JH Wrestling Season:

1. Facility issues:
a. single practice rooms = split practice times; HS
probably going late
b. Gym issues: JH BB season after Christmas = later
practice times for HS BB for a longer period of time
2. Fewer opponents/competition opportunities if all do NOT move
3. No real advantage for the BB teams whose seasons come
"before Christmas" vis-à-vis MAYB-type competition
4. Late JH and early HS seasons would overlap; would have JH
BB & WR competition going on with HS BB & WR for about three
weeks before Christmas. Coaching, facility and
transportation needs would have to be closely coordinated.
Greg,

How about having KSHSAA relax the competition restrictions for MS or JH wrestling? As I understand the majority of these competitions are conducted on weekdays. Why not allow these kids to attend USA Wrestling Club practices and weekend events during the season? What are the cons to less regulation? This would allow USA Wrestling to make some changes to the length of their season as well. Opposition was voiced to a recent suggestion because "some" MS/JH seasons run PAST the end of the HS wrestling season.
Not even going to discuss that aspect with you Will; it will just go nowhere fast.
Most of us completely understand that administration will make this decision. It's not all about wrestling. Greg makes excellent points on that. Personally, I wish that KSHSAA WOULD get involved in setting a standardized JH season, but I don't believe that will ever happen.
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