Kansas Wrestling
Posted By: Dean Welsh Who beat these 4a studs? - 02/28/09 03:09 AM
Furches: I see he has two losses. Any one know who they were to and what the score was (approximations are fine!)?

The same question for: Zake Peters, Ryne Cokeley, Cameron Jesseph, Derek Newell, Nathan Sommer, Darnell Bortz??? -- Who beat these guys?

Thanks to any one that can help on any of these.

Posted By: bockman Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 02/28/09 03:12 AM
probably have to look at some of the okie tournaments they go to.
Posted By: bockman Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 02/28/09 03:12 AM
probably have to look at some of the okie tournaments they go to.
Posted By: J Murdock Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 02/28/09 03:14 AM
I believe Sparr and Gentzler beat Furches.

Jason Murdock
Posted By: Stevie08 Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 02/28/09 03:18 AM
I think Dylan Penka gave Peters a loss.
Cokelely has lost to Napier and I think a Colorado kid.
A loss of Jesseph's is from Parker Madl.
Posted By: gm9 Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 02/28/09 03:42 AM
Cokeley lost 8-2 to Ethan Davis, a sophomore from Monett, MO.

Also, an interesting aside, Zach Peters is originally from Monett, MO and started wrestling through our our kids club.
Posted By: Dean Welsh Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 02/28/09 03:53 AM
Originally Posted By: J Murdock
I believe Sparr and Gentzler beat Furches.

Jason Murdock


Thank you. And, thanks to the other about the OK tourneys.
Posted By: Dean Welsh Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 02/28/09 03:54 AM
Originally Posted By: Stevie08
I think Dylan Penka gave Peters a loss.
Cokelely has lost to Napier and I think a Colorado kid.
A loss of Jesseph's is from Parker Madl.


Thanks a bunch for the info.
Posted By: Dean Welsh Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 02/28/09 03:58 AM
Originally Posted By: gm9
Cokeley lost 8-2 to Ethan Davis, a sophomore from Monett, MO.

Also, an interesting aside, Zach Peters is originally from Monett, MO and started wrestling through our our kids club.


Wow, 8-2!? Is Davis a state champ or what!?

I was born and raised in Indep., Mo - just east of KC, MO. I am not familiar with Monett. Where is it located at? Back in the early 80's when I wrestled - the MO powerhouses were Oak Grove, Blue Springs, Oak Park, Park Hill and some school in the St. Louis area (St. Francis???) that won about 10 titles in a row. My old memory is losing me tonight.

Take care.
Posted By: Ricky Bobby Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 02/28/09 04:04 AM
Originally Posted By: gm9
Cokeley lost 8-2 to Ethan Davis, a sophomore from Monett, MO.

Also, an interesting aside, Zach Peters is originally from Monett, MO and started wrestling through our our kids club.


Monett's been cranking out quite a few good kids the past few years with Kyle Meyer wining his four straight title, Kellen Bounous won his third I belive, Ben Hohnesee won a title a few years ago (will be a 2x All-American at Labette), and Dakota Greenhaw who was a senior nationals All-American a few years ago.

Now they have a former wrestler who will be a two time state finalist in Kansas.
Posted By: gm9 Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 02/28/09 05:12 AM
Originally Posted By: dwelsh
Originally Posted By: gm9
Cokeley lost 8-2 to Ethan Davis, a sophomore from Monett, MO.

Also, an interesting aside, Zach Peters is originally from Monett, MO and started wrestling through our our kids club.


Wow, 8-2!? Is Davis a state champ or what!?

I was born and raised in Indep., Mo - just east of KC, MO. I am not familiar with Monett. Where is it located at? Back in the early 80's when I wrestled - the MO powerhouses were Oak Grove, Blue Springs, Oak Park, Park Hill and some school in the St. Louis area (St. Francis???) that won about 10 titles in a row. My old memory is losing me tonight.

Take care.


Davis was a state champ last year as a freshman and finished 2nd at state last week. In the match against Cokeley, if I remember correctly, both of Cokeley's points came when Davis cut him.

Monett is a small town located about halfway between Joplin and Springfield. Monett is a Class 2 school which is the second smallest class in Missouri, Class 1 being the smallest schools and Class 4 the biggest.
Posted By: Shelstin Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 02/28/09 05:17 AM
Bortz lost in the Liberal finals to Nate Davis from Liberal, who is in the 5A finals. Newell lost to Sutherland from Liberal in the same tourney, who is in the 5A finals, and a fluke (I think)loss in the GC tourney.
Posted By: gm9 Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 02/28/09 05:35 AM
Originally Posted By: Ricky Bobby
Originally Posted By: gm9
Cokeley lost 8-2 to Ethan Davis, a sophomore from Monett, MO.

Also, an interesting aside, Zach Peters is originally from Monett, MO and started wrestling through our our kids club.


Monett's been cranking out quite a few good kids the past few years with Kyle Meyer wining his four straight title, Kellen Bounous won his third I belive, Ben Hohnesee won a title a few years ago (will be a 2x All-American at Labette), and Dakota Greenhaw who was a senior nationals All-American a few years ago.

Now they have a former wrestler who will be a two time state finalist in Kansas.


We have had a pretty good run of kids recently for a small town. Would have been even better if we could have kept some from moving. Zach Peters moved away when he was about 12, Nathan Fine who was a 2 time Class 4 medalists for Pattonville moved to St. Louis when he was 13 or 14. We also had another kid (and I can't remember his name right now) that moved to Kansas and was a medalist there and I think he was or is wrestling for Pratt. That was a pretty tough youth practice room for a small town when you have those kids and add in these:

Kyle Meyer, Sr, career record 173-2, finished 1,1,1,1 at state (has signed to wrestle for Stanford)
Kellen Bounous, Sr, 173-2, 2,1,1,1 (has signed to wrestle for Missouri)
Michael Merritt, Sr, 153-28, 3,4,2,3 (looking at Wartburg I heard)
Ethan Davis, So, 87-2, 1,2
and a few other state medalists.

Also Zach Bintliff (currently wrestles for Oak Park and finished 2,x,2,1 - will wrestle for Princeton next year) used to come work out with us in youth.

Ben Hohensee is from Monett and is a 2x AA at Labette. Dakota Greenhaw is a RS Sophomore currently wrestling for Northern Illinois and was the MAC wrestler of the week last week.
Posted By: Shelstin Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 02/28/09 05:45 AM
Gotta love those small towns that crank out wrestlers. You guys have to have some good fishing and bowhunting there, right?
Posted By: HEADUP Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 02/28/09 12:42 PM
the monett program is very good, many state finalist over the past few years.
Posted By: HEADUP Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 02/28/09 12:48 PM
have heard talk of how tough your kids program is at monett, have also coached baseball against the monett teams. very good parental support, you should all feel proud. my nephew and a few others from our club come over and practice at diamond and seneca a couple of times a month. they practice with some of the monett kids, and have become really good friends. we used to wrestle more south west missouri schools, at pittsburg high, but have stuck with kansas and oklahome over the past couple of years.
Posted By: Westfahl Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 02/28/09 02:33 PM
A lot of those losses are to 5 and 6A kids. Food for thought for all those who have been blasting 5 and 6A for the last few weeks.
Posted By: Cokeley Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 02/28/09 04:46 PM
Ethan has beaten Ryne four times in the last three years including a finals match at Tulsa Nationals. Monett has a great program but Ethan is also a Tony Purler pupil. He attended Tony's weekly Ray-Pec sessions and his summer camps for several years before getting into high school.

Dan Frank beat Ryne in Garden City. Dan is a 2x CO state champ and placed 2nd and 3rd. He closed out his HS career last week with over 150 wins.

CJ Napier beat Ryne at the Bobcat.


So none of Ryne's losses are to 5A and 6A wrestlers.

In fact, Westfahl, very few of the losses the aforementioned 4A wrestlers received were from 5A and 6A wrestlers. Let us match up the 4, 5, and 6 guys from 4A against the same placers for 5A and 6A. It will be a slaughter as 4A's depth is superior to 5A and 6A.
Posted By: Westfahl Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 02/28/09 05:01 PM
I wasn't talking about your sons losses but rather the other kids that were listed here. I know you are sensitive about your own son but it was the other listed kids and their matches I was alluding to. They match up all the time all over the state. They've all seen each other over and over year after year and there are great kids in every classification. I just think the 5 and 6A kids have sort of gotten worked over on this forum for no good reason. It is hard to make broad generalizations over kids (i.e. "slaughter") Kids are kids and there are good ones, and great ones all over from all kinds of towns. The rest of it is just a lot of hot air. My opinion of course.
Posted By: nastyway Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 02/28/09 05:37 PM

103 the top 4 in 5a alone could beat the best in 4a by pin more than likely
112 i would give to 4a
119 would be close either way
125 5a would dominate, your son also
130 it would be close since the 4a guy fair
135 napier wins
140 5a wins this easy
145 5a with another win
152 5a again
160 detmer pins anyone in your whole 4a
171 5a in a close match
189 the third place guy in 5a would pin everyone in your 4a
215 pretty close but would have to go with kriss
285 finney too tough
as you can see didn't even need to throw 6a into this becuase 5a would beat 4a alone, so looks like cokeley doesn't know all like he thinks he does. You remind me of the dad on friday night lights the jd mccoy's dad your crazy you always bad mouth someone and act like your the greatest thing to come to kansas wrestling but your a joke..................
Posted By: Dean Welsh Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 02/28/09 06:03 PM
Originally Posted By: nastyway
Dorkeley u are so wise not.
103 the top 4 in 5a alone could beat the best in 4a by pin more than likely
112 i would give to 4a
119 would be close either way
125 5a would dominate, your son also
130 it would be close since the 4a guy is not that great
135 napier wins
140 5a wins this easy
145 5a with another win
152 5a again
160 detmer pins anyone in your whole 4a
171 5a in a close match
189 the third place guy in 5a would pin everyone in your 4a
215 pretty close but would have to go with kriss
285 finney too tough
as you can see didn't even need to throw 6a into this becuase 5a would beat 4a alone, so looks like dorkeley doesn't know all like he thinks he does. You remind me of the dad on friday night lights the jd mccoy's dad your crazy you always bad mouth someone and act like your the greatest thing to come to kansas wrestling but your a joke..................


His name is COKELEY. And, his opinion is different from yours. Is that such a hard thing to accept?

And, he is a BIG PROMOTER of quality KS wrestling. What have you done for quality KS wrestling lately?
Posted By: usawks1 Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 02/28/09 06:25 PM
Dean, Don't let those with big computers and that are small on social etiquette get to you! Whether nastyway is an adolescent or not ... there is a definite display of those tendencies!
Posted By: Dean Welsh Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 02/28/09 06:35 PM
Randy, thanks for the concern but trust me - they don't get to me. I have thick skin. Probably too thick! ;-) Usually, I'm just laughing or grinning while typing these silly things. I don't take myself (or comments that others make) too seriously. I live in a glass house and know I should not throw stones. But alas, I'm sinful and do all too often.

I just like sticking up for my 'friends' and I definitely need to wise up and not take so much 'bait' and waste so much time on this forum. But, we all got our addictions. This one is not as bad as others I guess (smoking, drinking, over-eating, etc...)

Thanks again and catch ya later.

Dean
Posted By: 2coach Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 03/01/09 04:30 AM
nastyway, I think you need to learn more about wrestling before you make a post like you did. I really doubt your top 4 103 ponders would beat 4a's it would be a good match between Pursel and Stalford. Nitcher is at 125 while Cokeley is at 130, and have they ever met before? I don't think Blair would beat Jesseph easy, if at all. I'd like to see the match. 145 pd would be nice to see also. Watson at 152 is really good but I think Sommer could give him a run for his money. Detmer is good but I don't think he could pin everyone in 4a. Lets just stick with Hambleton and see if he could win that. Annberger is undefeated at 171 which tells me he's pretty good. Bortz lost once this year at 189 I don't think he would lose to the top three in 5a, let alone to your 5a champ. So I guess what I'm saying, is where did you come up with your information? Every kid that went to state did a good job, and every kid that placed at state did a great job...
Posted By: nastyway Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 03/01/09 08:33 AM
2coach i think i know enough about wrestling sorry i got offended abouth the 5a and 6a remarks from cokeley but if you look at the facts the big schools have produced many more all americans in college and college wrestlers and better head to head match ups if you through 6a and 5a against 4 and 123a it would be the small schools 2 wins maybe and ugly after that...
Posted By: Go Time Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 03/01/09 12:54 PM
Originally Posted By: nastyway

103 the top 4 in 5a alone could beat the best in 4a by pin more than likely
112 i would give to 4a
119 would be close either way
125 5a would dominate, your son also
130 it would be close since the 4a guy fair
135 napier wins
140 5a wins this easy
145 5a with another win
152 5a again
160 detmer pins anyone in your whole 4a
171 5a in a close match
189 the third place guy in 5a would pin everyone in your 4a
215 pretty close but would have to go with kriss
285 finney too tough
as you can see didn't even need to throw 6a into this becuase 5a would beat 4a alone, so looks like cokeley doesn't know all like he thinks he does. You remind me of the dad on friday night lights the jd mccoy's dad your crazy you always bad mouth someone and act like your the greatest thing to come to kansas wrestling but your a joke..................


Who was the 3rd place guy?

4A State Champion Darnell Bortz beat Davis (5A #2) at the Liberal dual the Thursday before Regionals. Kinda ruins that argument now doesn't it?
Posted By: bockman Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 03/01/09 01:28 PM
from year to year this argument varies. this year i do think maybe 5a and maybe even 6a with all the goddard studs might beat 4a. overall 4a is a much tougher class with so many more schools and you actually prove you belong at state when you get there. not saying everyone in 5a and 6a dont but some of those kids with losing records do not make it there in 4a ever. state in my opinion is supposed to be the best of the best to see who is the best. thats what a champion is.
Posted By: Dean Welsh Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 03/01/09 01:30 PM
AMEN.
Posted By: HEADUP Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 03/01/09 01:56 PM
people let's quit talking about it. start raising money, find a cantrally located venue. bring in the top four from each class, and let's battle it out. you could charge $20 a ticket and pack the house, and all this talk would stop.

scott bockover: there are some pretty big guys on the wall at your old school that might take offense, when you keep questioning their 5a heavyweight championships. tell sonny manley that he is not a true champion because his bracket wasn't filled with the "best of the best".

quanity doesn't always mean quality, the top 6 in every class worked their asses off the get where they are. congratulations to ALL.
Posted By: bockman Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 03/01/09 02:00 PM
dont put words into my mouth josh. that i do have a problem with. by the way back when sonny did win those championships what was his record and how many 5a teams were there back then. thats what i thought. now you can rest on that.
Posted By: 2coach Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 03/01/09 03:47 PM
nastyway, I'm not saying you know nothing about wrestling, sorry if thats the way it came out. I'm just saying you made it sound like 4a was easy. 321a,4a,5a,6a these guys all did a good job no matter what class they are in. For you to get on there and make a post like you did is crazy, let them enjoy thier hard work for placing in the top six. And just like suckerpunch says let's get all these guys together and let them go at it. It's called grand state!!!
Posted By: WillyM Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 03/01/09 04:03 PM
Lots of jawing about what class is best: 4A, 321A, 123A, 456A, ??A. Look at the wrestlers. Look at the regional winners and 2nds. Very few 3rd or 4th placers advanced very far in any of the state tournaments. 1 and 2s won at state because they were the best in their weight and class all year. Experience and talant wins out. So what if a losing record made it too state, every class had wrestlers who should not have been their, and probably very few 3rds or 4ths out of 4A and 321A would have made it to state in 5 or 6A, or if they did they would have dropped out as fast as the 3 and 4s of the bigger schools. Another point, just glancing at a few 321A won/loss records, appeared that, generally, small school kids wrestled less matches during the year. Why, perhahs bigger schools wrestled in bigger tournaments. The only counter issues is the greater opportunities to go to state in the smaller classes, but that does not always in the least equate to better wrestlers.
Posted By: greyeagle Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 03/01/09 04:22 PM
Hey Nastyway ! Colby alone has produced THREE D I ALL AMERICANS. Steve Lampe- Iowa St / Matt Murray- Nebraska / Eric Luedke- Iowa (still in the hunt for the Olympics) Just the facts. For a small, meaningless member of 4A, I think that speaks for itself.
Posted By: Dean Welsh Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 03/01/09 04:51 PM
Add Erisman at OSU. Not an AA yet. But, I bet he will be before he is finished.
Posted By: flamingo Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 03/01/09 05:42 PM
so cokeley doesnt know anything because you THINK 5A could beat 4A? thats your opinion, even though a bad one its still yours. and you better throw 6A in there cause if im not mistaken the big schools have been getting beat in the senior classic the past couple years wink and you make gestures like 5A wins easy and this guy beat that guy. why dont you do some research next time and throw in some kid's names. then maybe someone will take you seriously.
Posted By: Stevie08 Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 03/01/09 06:09 PM
Originally Posted By: flamingo
so cokeley doesnt know anything because you THINK 5A could beat 4A? thats your opinion, even though a bad one its still yours. and you better throw 6A in there cause if im not mistaken the big schools have been getting beat in the senior classic the past couple years wink and you make gestures like 5A wins easy and this guy beat that guy. why dont you do some research next time and throw in some kid's names. then maybe someone will take you seriously.

Big schools won pretty handily in the senior classic last year. I'm not mistaken.
Posted By: Cokeley Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 03/01/09 06:24 PM
Originally Posted By: dwelsh
Furches: I see he has two losses. Any one know who they were to and what the score was (approximations are fine!)?

The same question for: Zake Peters, Ryne Cokeley, Cameron Jesseph, Derek Newell, Nathan Sommer, Darnell Bortz??? -- Who beat these guys?

Thanks to any one that can help on any of these.

Originally Posted By: Westfahl
I wasn't talking about your sons losses but rather the other kids that were listed here. I know you are sensitive about your own son but it was the other listed kids and their matches I was alluding to. They match up all the time all over the state. They've all seen each other over and over year after year and there are great kids in every classification. I just think the 5 and 6A kids have sort of gotten worked over on this forum for no good reason. It is hard to make broad generalizations over kids (i.e. "slaughter") Kids are kids and there are good ones, and great ones all over from all kinds of towns. The rest of it is just a lot of hot air. My opinion of course.


Jeeze Testy Westy, my son was one of those listed so I figured you were talking about him but regardless I was talking about all of them.
Originally Posted By: Westfahl
A lot of those losses are to 5 and 6A kids. Food for thought for all those who have been blasting 5 and 6A for the last few weeks.


The blasting is not about the top of 5A and 6A. The blasting is about the lack of depth and the steep drop off after the top two or three. The real measure is to match up 4 through 6 to see which class is the toughest. There are way too many losing records and too many easy pins in the first two rounds of 5A and 6A. We need to do it right like the Okies and invite only the top 8 to state for 5A and 6A if we are not going to combine them. This would make the mat space and other logistics easier to contend with when we do the right thing and move all three classes into the same arena. Man up and admit the 5A and 6A have NO depth.


Working on completing the rest of this. Update later, got to take a nap. smile

Furches 2
lost to Gentzler 5A
lost to Sparr 4A

Peters 2
lost to Kyle Johnson 4A
lost to Penka 5A

Jesseph
lost to Madl 6A
lost to Goree out of state

Newell
lost to Sommer 4A
lost to Peak 5A

Sommer 2

Bortz 1

Cokeley 3
lost to Napier 4A
two out of state losses
Posted By: Ricky Bobby Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 03/01/09 06:31 PM
I believe one of Sommer's losses came at the Baldwin Tournament to an Oak Park Missouri wrestler. Not sure about the other one and have no idea on Bortz's loss.
Posted By: Coach Packard Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 03/01/09 06:45 PM
Sommer lost to Chris Watson of Andover Central there-5-1 I think....Watson was the 4A champ at 152 last year.
Posted By: Ricky Bobby Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 03/01/09 07:14 PM
I was wrong. I forgot that he meet up with Watson.
Posted By: Stevie08 Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 03/01/09 07:46 PM

"The blasting is not about the top of 5A and 6A. The blasting is about the lack of depth and the steep drop off after the top two or three. The real measure is to match up 4 through 6 to see which class is the toughest. There are way too many losing records and too many easy pins in the first two rounds of 5A and 6A. We need to do it right like the Okies and invite only the top 8 to state for 5A and 6A if we are not going to combine them. This would make the mat space and other logistics easier to contend with when we do the right thing and move all three classes into the same arena. Man up and admit the 5A and 6A have NO depth."

NO depth? Why don't you look at 5A 119. There's at least one weight WITH depth. Any of the top 5 placers could have won the bracket. So obviously, there IS depth. NO depth is a completely ignorant statement.
Posted By: Cokeley Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 03/01/09 07:53 PM
There will always be exceptions Stevie. Do you want me to address the depth issue for each of the 14 weights for 4A, 5A, and 6A? There are twic as many schools in 4A than there are in 5A and 6A so the depth is going to be stronger, GENERALLY speaking. Let me put it this way... The 33rd best guy in 4A can beat the 33rd best guy in 5A ang 6A every time! "Completely ignorant." Wow.
Posted By: Stevie08 Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 03/01/09 07:56 PM
Generalizing EVERY weight in 5A and 6A as having a lack of depth IS ignorant. I will say "wow" to that. And every time? Really? I find that impossible to believe.
Posted By: Cokeley Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 03/01/09 08:01 PM
Show me the data and lets be objective. If you have a case make it and stop attacking me for having an opinion. You are being unreasonable and intolerant. Put up some facts and your name.
Posted By: Stevie08 Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 03/01/09 08:08 PM
There are several weights that are lower in depth than 4A. But not EVERY weight. I stated data two posts ago, 5A 119 has depth. You are entitled to your opinion, I couldn't care less what you think in some areas either. But to say that every weight in the two classes lack depth, I won't ignore that.

STEPHEN SANTIAGO
Posted By: Bob Jones Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 03/01/09 10:57 PM
Statistically speaking, 5A and 6A have more students to choose form and 4A has more schools. Between the two, it probably balances out and some weights are tougher in 4A, while others are tougher in 5A or 6A. Regarding the statement of depth in the top 6, look at 189

At the Eudora tourn early in the season at 189, the top 3 placers were:

1st Place:Nathan Wessel (Ls) 5A
2nd Place:Brett Newell (BV) 6A
3rd Place:Dylon Walker (El) 4A

Walker finished 5th at state in 4A, Wessel finished 5th at state in 5A and Newell finished 6th at state in 6A. In addition, Mark Kolmer finished 3rd in 5A. The 189 Bishop Carroll (5A) kid who was ranked, didn't qualify for state. Ryan Revoir Olathe Ease didn't place in 6A.

189 top 6 placers by class include:

4A 189
Place Wrestler Year School Record
1st Darnell Bortz 12 Pratt 43- 1
2nd Treat Bugbee 12 Colby 32- 9
3rd Joel Marrs 12 Clay Center 35- 3
4th Zach Grimes 10 Osawatomie 40- 6
5th Dylon Walker 11 El Dorado 40- 7
6th Steven Skaggs 11 Meriden-Jefferson West 30- 10

5A 289
Place Wrestler Year School Record
1st Aron Elsen 12 Great Bend 28- 5
2nd Nate Davis 12 Liberal 33- 5
3rd Mark Kolmer 11 Emporia 39- 2
4th Dylan Matheny 11 Wichita-KMC 36- 12
5th Nathan Wessel 10 Lansing 34- 5
6th Steven Cooksley 11 Topeka-Seaman 25- 9

6A 189
Place Wrestler Year School Record
1st Boaz Beard 12 Goddard 28- 0
2nd Brandon Reif 12 Wichita-Haysville 29- 5
3rd Jarad Sanches 12 Shawnee Mission-West 37- 8
4th Cole Carpenter JR Derby 27- 15
5th Tyler West SR Manhattan 30- 16
6th Brett Newell 12 Blue Valley 37- 10

At 285 the number 2 guy at Wichita Northwest who was ranked 2nd earlier in the year, didn't wrestle at state because he was not the varsity wrestler. The varsity wrestler Page, finished 2nd in 6A. That's depth in one 6A school.
Posted By: WillyM Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 03/01/09 11:30 PM
Something I was taught a long long time ago: FIGURES LIE AND LIARS FIGURE!!! That's not calling any one a name, but says that any set of data, numbers, info, etc. can be used to argue or support both sides of the same issue. To prove a point the data needs to be tested. In the case of wrestling, perhaps no one will be satisfied until there is some kind of wrestle off. Possible exceptions to being satisfied: wrestlers who have finished their season or their HS career and are ready to move on to another sport, college, work, the military, their life. HS sports are not the end all! Its probably coaches or overl competitive dads who argue the loudest for a Grand State, let my kids in the Metro, another this, another that, another, another........
Posted By: Bob Jones Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 03/01/09 11:31 PM
If you take stock in the mythical "all-class" ranking from Feb 23rd at 130 lbs, 7 of the top 11 130 pounders are 5A kids. Based on the rankings, the 7th best 5A kid would be the 2nd best in 321A and 4A or 3rd best in 6A.

130
1. Ryne Cokeley - 10 - SJA - 4A
2. Trent Cox - 12 - MZ - 6A
3. Colt Rogers - 11 - SC - 321A
4. Kash Biddle - 11 - ARK - 5A
5. Justin Rose - 12 - EMP - 5A
6. Dylan Penka - 10 - BC - 5A
7. Spencer Blew - 10 - LS - 5A
8. Kasey Lien - 11 - SS - 5A
9. Rylan Dalke - 12 - NEW - 5A
10t. Trey Houlden - 10 - GD - 6A
10t. Josh Umscheid - 12 - AC - 5A
Posted By: Westfahl Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 03/02/09 12:20 AM
Cokely what I am talking about here is that all these kids come on here and read all of us adults bad mouthing them because they wrestle in a 5 or 6A school and I think is sort of bush league to do that to them. I have seen all of these classifications on top from time to time and it just seems a little bit bitter to talk about them that way. We could start talking about the idea that a 4A school that can recruit is not really in the same boat as a 4 or 5A school that can't. Should they still be in the conversation? Just a thought.
Posted By: Cokeley Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 03/02/09 02:42 AM
Originally Posted By: Westfahl
Cokely what I am talking about here is that all these kids come on here and read all of us adults bad mouthing them because they wrestle in a 5 or 6A school and I think is sort of bush league to do that to them. I have seen all of these classifications on top from time to time and it just seems a little bit bitter to talk about them that way. We could start talking about the idea that a 4A school that can recruit is not really in the same boat as a 4 or 5A school that can't. Should they still be in the conversation? Just a thought.

You never cease to amaze me with your asinine comments. I am sure you will say the same of me.
Posted By: Cokeley Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 03/02/09 02:51 AM
Originally Posted By: Westfahl
Cokely what I am talking about here is that all these kids come on here and read all of us adults bad mouthing them because they wrestle in a 5 or 6A school and I think is sort of bush league to do that to them. I have seen all of these classifications on top from time to time and it just seems a little bit bitter to talk about them that way. We could start talking about the idea that a 4A school that can recruit is not really in the same boat as a 4 or 5A school that can't. Should they still be in the conversation? Just a thought.

What 4A school is recruiting? Pretty serious accusation you are making. Back it up! No one is bashing any kids just the system. There are facts that back up the recommendations. I know that kids with a losing record are making it to state without winning a match at regionals. 5A ang 6A only need to be 8 man brackets. Plain and simple.
Posted By: Westfahl Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 03/02/09 06:22 AM
Will there isn't a parochial school in the country that doesn't recruit in some fashion. It's legal and they all do it. I've seen it, been approached by them for both my son's and most of the schools around here have had it happen to them. I don't think it is right but it happens. My statement was hypothetical but it caught your attention didn't it. Might want to read it again, I didn't accuse anyone of anything. I am just saying all 4 5 or 6A's are not created equal. Any private school that doesn't go looking for kids won't keep their doors open very long, we aren't all stupid out here. Lots of us have lost a lot of kids over the years to the catholic schools in this area in every sport. You can be righteously indignant all you want but too many people have been talked to by the three major schools in this area to act like it doesn't or isn't or hasn't been happening. So my point is if some schools can do that legally and others can't then are they equals and do they belong in this who is better conversation that I think is so silly. Thats all I was saying. He if you took offense, thats ok.
Posted By: Cokeley Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 03/02/09 12:08 PM
There is a great deal of difference between promoting and recruiting. Perhaps a dictionary will help you out. You knew exactly what you were insinuating and so do I. When you have a good product you don't have to recruit. Any public school can do the same thing.
Posted By: Dean Welsh Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 03/02/09 12:27 PM
Good point. It is done all the time across all classes. Kids/parents want to be associated with good programs.

I don't think Oak Park HS 'recruited' Elijah Madison. But, when his Dad took a new job in that area, he was glad to wrestle for OPHS.
Posted By: Westfahl Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 03/02/09 05:59 PM
Well actually most of the public schools cannot in fact do that. They are bound by their districts. There are only a few school districts in the state that have open enrollment and only one in or two in this half the state that I know of that do. The others cannot do so. As I said before it is completely legal, I just don't think one has any similarity to the other. One of them you have to build and the other you can just plug in. That seems like a whole different ballgame to me. Hey I know its a good product my oldest son went to Miege. I just think if the whole area is my oyster I have an advantage over schools who can only chose from kids who live in their district. It is my last comment on it, hey whatever you think is fair is ok with me.

I am not saying anyone is, isn't, will, won't recruit. What I am saying is that the fact that they can if they want to makes them unique and makes the playing field unfair. Now Will that is exactly what I am saying. Now you don't have to explain what I am saying to me lol. I am smiling as I type that. I think people get way to heavy in here.
Posted By: Go Time Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 03/02/09 08:24 PM
I am thinking of a 4A public school who within the past three years has had wrestlers from Newton, Sedgwick, VC, and Andover on their roster. Some pretty long drives in there for it to be about the lunch menu.
Posted By: chewie Re: Who beat these 4a studs? - 03/02/09 08:28 PM
I don't know. Some schools have pretty good lunch programs.
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