Kansas Wrestling
Posted By: wrestling67 Bishop Carroll tourn - 12/20/09 02:17 AM
112
1st Dalton Miller Campus tech fall over Lindlar Wichita NW

119
1st Cody Beasley Campus 4 ot over Blaine Smith Salina South
Posted By: wrestling67 Re: Bishop Carroll tourn - 12/20/09 04:09 AM
Congrats to Miles Johns of Newton on his Championship win.
Posted By: KNAPPY EAGLE Re: Bishop Carroll tourn - 12/20/09 05:29 AM
1 Andale 137.5
2 Salina South 123.5
3 Newton 110
4 Wichita Northwest 106.5
5 Dodge City 103.5
6 Wichita Heights 97
7 Bishop Carroll 90
8 Wichita South 88
9 Campus 80
10 Pratt 64
11 Winfield 60
12 Halstead 50
13 Mulvane 46
14 Team X 40
15 Wichita Independent 33
16 Wichita North 15
17 KC Schlagle 6
Posted By: KNAPPY EAGLE Re: Bishop Carroll tourn - 12/20/09 05:30 AM
103 1st Javier Vieyra (Salina South) Jared Suppes (Newton) 15-3
103 3rd Conner Neal (Wichita Heights) Clay Kear (Andale) 2-0
112 1st Dalton Miller (Campus) Michael Lindlar (Wichita Northwest) 16-0
112 3rd Quinton Harrison (Newton) Anthony Monarez (Team X) 8-0
119 1st Cody Beasley (Campus) Blaine Smith (Salina South) 7-6
119 3rd Garrett McEachern (Newton) Rashaad Newhouse (Wichita South) Fall 1:27
125 1st Levi Eck (Andale) Matt Ziegler (Bishop Carroll) 9-0
125 3rd Riley Soward (Halstead) Jason Harper (Campus) 3-2
130 1st Miles Johns (Newton) Alex Thibault (Halstead) 8-3
130 3rd Steven Plott (Salina South) Kyle Armstrong (Andale) Forfeit
135 1st Ulysses Deshazer (Wichita Heights) Kasey Lien (Salina South) 3-0
135 3rd Travis Koch (Bishop Carroll) Ben Thoman (Andale) Forfeit
140 1st Vance Oliver (Winfield) Trent Hoover (Salina South) 7-5
140 3rd Hunter Edwards (Dodge City) Alix Murphy (Campus) Fall 3:59
145 1st Justin Blundell (Dodge City) Colton Duhr (Andale) 6-4
145 3rd Chase Lewoneowski (Wichita Independent) Justin Lampe (Team X) Forfeit
152 1st Jason Seibel (Salina South) Dylan Penka (Bishop Carroll) 2-1
152 3rd Sean Gaither (Wichita Northwest) Jacob Eggers (Dodge City) Fall 4:54
160 1st Jake Hattabaugh (Andale) Nic Thibault (Halstead) 7-4
160 3rd D.J. Collins (Wichita South) Austin Baird (Pratt) 5-2
171 1st Matt Reed (Wichita Heights) Taylor Baird (Pratt) 5-2
171 3rd Devon Keith (Bishop Carroll) Kailan Jones (Wichita South) Forfeit
189 1st Jace Banner (Dodge City) Chase Kreutzer (Pratt) 8-0
189 3rd Dylan Hagerman] (Mulvane) Cameron Brandon (Wichita South) 4-2
215 1st Kyle Caylor (Wichita Northwest) David Garcia (Newton) Fall 4:40
215 3rd Justin Reynolds (Wichita Heights) Cyruss Tasker (Winfield) 21-12
285 1st BJ Finney (Andale) Trey Page (Wichita Northwest) 2-1
285 3rd Jesse Trent (Dodge City) Johnny Burke (Campus) Fall 2:48
Posted By: wrestling67 Re: Bishop Carroll tourn - 12/20/09 06:34 AM
Did anyone feel like maybe this tournament has gotten so big that maybe it would be better ran as a two day tournament? May pig tails and and at least one more round after that.
Posted By: Dean Welsh Re: Bishop Carroll tourn - 12/20/09 12:56 PM
Did Daniel Deshazer not wrestle? Hurt? Grades? Just curious.
Posted By: wrestling67 Re: Bishop Carroll tourn - 12/20/09 02:34 PM
He was hurt from what he told me
Posted By: Jim Gaither Re: Bishop Carroll tourn - 12/20/09 04:11 PM
Four forfeits in the consolation finals due to 5 match limit!
Posted By: wkwrestler Re: Bishop Carroll tourn - 12/20/09 04:35 PM
Blaine Smith vs Cody Beasley has to be one of the best matches i have ever seen in my life hats off to those two
Posted By: bigfatwrestler Re: Bishop Carroll tourn - 12/20/09 05:42 PM
ya no joke that match was unbelievable, a very questionable call at the end. What i dont understand is how you award the 2 points and then go to the head table and they take away his reversal that he scored to win the match. i think smith got fum bucked on that one! There were many great matches last night, the 152 pound match was an excellent match between penka and seibel also. Thats not the result i was expecting out of those two. Over all, VERY good wrestling at this tournament.
Posted By: Chief Renegade Re: Bishop Carroll tourn - 12/20/09 06:25 PM
Originally Posted By: Jim Gaither
Four forfeits in the consolation finals due to 5 match limit!


A ridiculous rule. It's sad that this has not been changed yet.
Posted By: Ricky Bobby Re: Bishop Carroll tourn - 12/20/09 07:06 PM
I would like to applaud the Halstead coaching staff for making an effort to improve the level of competition their wrestlers would compete with by adding the Bishop Carroll tournament to its lineup. To the best of my knowledge they only took three wrestlers and they all stepped up to the challenge by bringing home some marquee wins and hard earned medals. I wish that more teams, especially small 321A schools would take their elite wrestlers to tournaments of this caliber.
Posted By: doug747 Re: Bishop Carroll tourn - 12/20/09 09:13 PM
I'll second that!!!!!!!

What would have really been sad is for a team that was the beneficiary of getting the "5 match Default" would have won the team title because of not o nly the 2 bonus points, making it as valuable as a pin, but also getting the 3rd place points instead of at least splitting the 3rd and 4th points evenly.

It is a sorry rule. Have heard lots of coaches talk about being allowed to work your tails off for 2+hours per day, 5 days perweek in practice, yet y ou can't wrestle 5 matches in a day with breaks between. Unbelievable.


Posted By: tigerwrestling Re: Bishop Carroll tourn - 12/20/09 11:25 PM
anyone got the video of the beasley smith match
Posted By: wrestling67 Re: Bishop Carroll tourn - 12/20/09 11:49 PM
The ref went to the table because the other ref said he had already made the call that the time was out. The table workers also verified that the time had expired. If you were there and sitting on the south end of the mat you would have see his arms already in the motion that the time had run out... It was a Great match as they always have had.
Posted By: M.Church_AD Re: Bishop Carroll tourn - 12/21/09 01:41 AM
Originally Posted By: dwelsh
Did Daniel Deshazer not wrestle? Hurt? Grades? Just curious.


Grades have never been a problem for Daniel Deshazer as he is an outstanding student who takes upper level courses and believes his academics are very important. He is not necessarily hurt but will be used on a limited basis all season long to prevent injury. Yes, it would of been nice to have Daniel in the line-up as he probably would of added at least another 20 pts to Heights team score. However, I am willing to sacrifice a trophy at Bishop Carroll to give him a shot at winning a 6A state championshp.
Posted By: Dean Welsh Re: Bishop Carroll tourn - 12/21/09 01:48 AM
Interesting Coach. Thanks for sharing. And congrats to Daniel for being an outstanding student.

Please don't hold him out of too many tourneys - he sure is a joy to watch wrestle (ie. PLEASE let him wrestle the JC tourney - I'll for sure be at that one since i live in JC!)! However, I know you are doing what is in his best interest.
Posted By: ChuckMies Re: Bishop Carroll tourn - 12/21/09 04:46 AM
Originally Posted By: wrestling67
The ref went to the table because the other ref said he had already made the call that the time was out. The table workers also verified that the time had expired. If you were there and sitting on the south end of the mat you would have see his arms already in the motion that the time had run out... It was a Great match as they always have had.


As the person scoring the bout at the head table, this is the accurate account of what happened. Remember, in a 2 referee system, one of the primary responsibility of the second ref is the clock. When the call was made the conference at the table was for the second ref to confirm with the first ref that the time has expired.

I have to tell you that they were VERY serious about getting this call right, and I believe that they did.

And as the others have said, this was one of the best matches I have ever seen. Hats off to the wrestlers for such a good match.

Posted By: ChuckMies Re: Bishop Carroll tourn - 12/21/09 04:50 AM
Originally Posted By: doug747
It is a sorry rule. Have heard lots of coaches talk about being allowed to work your tails off for 2+hours per day, 5 days perweek in practice, yet you can't wrestle 5 matches in a day with breaks between. Unbelievable.


I always think of this as an insult to the kid that makes an unfortunate mistake in a match, claws his way through the backside and has to forfeit the match that he earned so hard to achieve.
Posted By: ChuckMies Re: Bishop Carroll tourn - 12/21/09 04:58 AM
Originally Posted By: wrestling67
Did anyone feel like maybe this tournament has gotten so big that maybe it would be better ran as a two day tournament?


Yes, this is an issue and one looked hard at.

With teams like Halstead and others asking to be in the tournament this year, and a home basketball game Friday night, the administration had to make some tough decisions to either:
  • close the tournament to these teams and deny some quality wrestlers a chance to compete
  • risk running into the 5-match rule and let the tournament grow a little

I think that this is yet another commentary on the 5-match rule.....but of course I could be wrong....... smile
Posted By: wrestling67 Re: Bishop Carroll tourn - 12/21/09 12:44 PM
Again, why not go ahead and look in the future and make it a two day tournament? Add a few more Good teams and make it bigger.
Posted By: sportsfan02 Re: Bishop Carroll tourn - 12/21/09 12:58 PM
Because they first have to determine how many of the existing teams would they lose by going to a two day tournament. All of those teams already have their points filled so that means what will they give up to go to BC for two days.
Posted By: Cokeley Re: Bishop Carroll tourn - 12/21/09 02:06 PM
A better solution would be for the coaches to unify with the AD's and demand that we allow a 6th match in Kansas. Kansas has already broken rank from the NFHSA for our weight control and weigh in procedures. A sixteen team tournament could then be conducted in one day without any risk of a mandated forfeit.

Think about how much money would be saved at regionals. ALL regionals could be conducted in one day. If you can't wrestle six matches in a day it is time to join your school's bowling program. smile
Posted By: Ryan Jilka Re: Bishop Carroll tourn - 12/21/09 08:44 PM
I've always hated the five match rule. I'm not in favor of unlimited matches, but by the rules we now have in place, a wrestler could wrestle as much as 8 minutes, 30 seconds per match. 5 matches COULD equate to 42 minutes, 30 seconds. I looked through a couple of Emporia's brackets and found that several of the kids that wrestled 5 matches did so in less than 20 minutes of total time. I don't have time to do so, but I'd like to see how many of the wrestlers that couldn't compete in the conso finals had wrestled more than 34 minutes on the day. If they had not done so, a sixth match couldn't have put them on the mat more than the alloted time by the current rule. Change the rule and we can get through 16 man brackets the right way.
Posted By: M.Church_AD Re: Bishop Carroll tourn - 12/22/09 04:38 AM
The Bishop Carroll Tourney also falls on Finals week and a lot of teams may bail out if it became a two day since finals are being given on the Friday that the first day of tournament would have to take place. Pretty sure I would have to pull my team out if they went to a two day tournament....
Posted By: ChuckMies Re: Bishop Carroll tourn - 12/23/09 12:12 AM
Originally Posted By: FalconCoach
The Bishop Carroll Tourney also falls on Finals week and a lot of teams may bail out if it became a two day since finals are being given on the Friday that the first day of tournament would have to take place. Pretty sure I would have to pull my team out if they went to a two day tournament....


Great perspective Coach, I hadn't thought about finals week.
Posted By: CoachS Re: Bishop Carroll tourn - 12/23/09 03:43 PM
Leave it to Church to have some great perspecitve.
Posted By: Cokeley Re: Bishop Carroll tourn - 12/23/09 05:31 PM
Just curious... are there ANY coaches or AD's who oppose six matches in a day???
Posted By: Chief Renegade Re: Bishop Carroll tourn - 12/23/09 05:31 PM
And if so, explain your rationale.
Posted By: master blaster Re: Bishop Carroll tourn - 12/23/09 06:05 PM
5 matches with no OT = 30. Why not go by mat time? If the kid wrestled less than 24 min in the first 5 matches then let him wrestle 6. More than whatever the allotted time and then you forfiet.
Posted By: Cokeley Re: Bishop Carroll tourn - 12/23/09 06:58 PM
Mat time is too complicated. Matches is much easier to manage. A 16 man bracket is the largest you can have for a one day, line bracketed, tournament. You could go with 20 and four five many pools with two rounds of medal matches for a max of six as well. If you go mat time and someone has a bunch of OT matches they might have to forfeit their sixth match. Lets avoid that issue.
Posted By: back in the day Re: Bishop Carroll tourn - 12/23/09 08:28 PM
Well...It might be too expensive to have more than 5 matches in one day per wrestler. That is an extra 14 matches possible a day. Think of the occupancy expenses that extra mat time would incur.
We cant have that now can we. We cant even find a school to host an 8 team regional because it costs too much (or because our leaders have been asleep at the wheel.)
smirk
Posted By: doug747 Re: Bishop Carroll tourn - 12/23/09 08:43 PM
That would still be a stupid change. If a kid can't wrestle 6 matches in a day, no matter if all of them go to OT, then he ought to think about getting good enough to stay on the front side. Come to think of it, wrestling 6 matches in a day is a good way to make yourself better. Each match should be somewhat of a step up in competition from the last. But KSHSAA isn't interested in kids making themselves better.

I know, that is a little harsh, but seriously, KSHSAA acts like it is ME that is wrestling 5 matches in a day. I agree that it is a good rule to keep ME from wrestling ANY matches in a day, unless it is versus a novice mom.
Posted By: ReDPloyd Re: Bishop Carroll tourn - 12/23/09 10:25 PM
Originally Posted By: doug747

I know, that is a little harsh, but seriously, KSHSAA acts like it is ME that is wrestling 5 matches in a day. I agree that it is a good rule to keep ME from wrestling ANY matches in a day, unless it is versus a novice mom.


There was a day back when my wife was a novice mom. I don't think that I would have wanted to tangle with her back then, let alone today.

"As I walked through the valley of the shadow of death...", that is all I am saying.
Posted By: Coach Alley Re: Bishop Carroll tourn - 12/24/09 03:13 AM
Another expense you might want to consider is the officials. I know I have visited with some officials and they have said if we add another match to the limit, then we need to add $$$ to the officiating fee. More matches = more matches and a longer day for them also.

I know, some feel they are overpaid for the job they do, but I understand their feeling about the extra work for the same money.
Posted By: Cokeley Re: Bishop Carroll tourn - 12/24/09 12:54 PM
Originally Posted By: Coach Alley
Another expense you might want to consider is the officials. I know I have visited with some officials and they have said if we add another match to the limit, then we need to add $$$ to the officiating fee. More matches = more matches and a longer day for them also.

I know, some feel they are overpaid for the job they do, but I understand their feeling about the extra work for the same money.


It just occured to me that more matches for the same pay might be a really good deal! How many officials are WAY, WAY overweight and unfit? Pay them the same but have them work more matches. Less money to buy food and less time in the hospitality rooms. More matches equals more calories burned... This seems way too logical to me! smile
Posted By: coach craig Re: Bishop Carroll tourn - 12/24/09 05:50 PM
Originally Posted By: Coach Alley
Another expense you might want to consider is the officials. I know I have visited with some officials and they have said if we add another match to the limit, then we need to add $$$ to the officiating fee. More matches = more matches and a longer day for them also.

I know, some feel they are overpaid for the job they do, but I understand their feeling about the extra work for the same money.


If they are forfiting matches in the consolation finals then what extra match are they officiating (Which is where the matches are being forfited)? In my opinion they get to take a match off. They have to officiate these matches at other weights, so what would be the issue if they had to officiate the match that was scheduled for that day?

To be honest you don't hear the good officials complain. They know what their job is and will do it when they step out on the mat. A match limit should have no bearing on how officials are paid. They are paid by the day not the match.
Posted By: doug747 Re: Bishop Carroll tourn - 12/24/09 08:49 PM
We don't need some Okie coming on here making reasonable statements like that. Sooner or later I would have been able to think hard enough to make a sensible statement like you did. Quit stealing KS' thunder.
Posted By: Jim Gaither Re: Bishop Carroll tourn - 12/24/09 09:03 PM
Almost forgot, Happy Birthday Doug and congratulations to the Okie on his recognition award.
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