Where: Newman University
Who: #3 Derby vs #2 Goddard 5:30
Newman University vs Oklahoma City University 7:30
Line up:(14 wrestlers ranked in 6A)
Derby_________Goddard
Gage Wells vs Dakotah Leach
Jeffrey Morrow vs Kaleb Bonilla
Jarred Suppes vs Justyn Martinez
Chandler Ayer vs Ricky Spangler
Skylar McComb vs Christian Frame
Brady Heincker vs Lincoln Lemon
Bradly Little vs Blake Mitchell
Ben Becker vs Trey Houlden
Jarred Morrow vs Tyler Kimple
Jessie Lintz vs Sean Mararo
Tree Chavez vs Tyler Higgins
Gary Schoeppel vs Dalton Beard
Shawn Marlatt vs Kevin Le / Tylor Woodruff
Travis Anderson vs Tylor Woodruff/ Austen Killian
Surely Little and Houlden will wrestle at their current weight, 145. They should end the dual with that match-up.
Surely Little and Houlden will wrestle at their current weight, 145. They should end the dual with that match-up.
Eric:
I know this is difficult for you to believe but the Derby and Goddard coaches will adjust their rosters to maximize their team's strength in order to score the most team points and win the dual. The contest tonight is a TEAM event.
As I recall, Little is certified at 140 lbs. and if that is the weight classification he weighed in and qualified for that may provide Coach Ross with a strategic advantage.
Rich,
I know Little certified there. I also know it was a tough pull for him to make 42 again. Why trade sixes when you could possibly sweep both weights? Becker over Mitchell and Little over Houlden.
I know it's hard for you to figure that out but don't you also agree that would give Derby an advantage?
I know it's hard for you to figure that out but don't you also agree that would give Derby an advantage?
What is not hard for me to figure out is Coach Ross and Coach Means will do whatever they feel is best in order for their team to win the dual.
I know it's hard for you to figure that out but don't you also agree that would give Derby an advantage?
What is not hard for me to figure out is Coach Ross and Coach Means will do whatever they feel is best in order for their team to win the dual.
Really? I thought they would intentionally throw it. Go out on a limb Richard. Actually state an opinion on here instead of cut and pasting results. Get into the sport. Talk strategy. I know you can do it!
Really? I thought they would intentionally throw it.
This does not surprise me however I can assure you Coach Ross and Coach Means are of high ethical and moral standards and would never consider such a thing.
Okay Jerry tell us what heppened at 145.
Dan Gentzler
So Goddard won on criteria? How was Becker awarded the match when there was no penalty called on Houlden? Can anyone verify what happened there?
Gage Wells vs Dakotah Leach Leach by pin 6-0
Jeffrey Morrow vs Kaleb Bonilla Bonilla 6-4 9-0
Jarred Suppes vs Justyn Martinez Martinez 3-2 12-0
Chandler Ayer vs Ricky Spangler Spangler 4-2 ot 15-0
Skylar McComb vs Christian Frame McComb Pin 15-6
Brady Heincker vs Lincoln Lemon Heincker 6-1 15-9
Bradly Little vs Blake Mitchell Little Pin 15-15
Ben Becker vs Trey Houlden Becker inj/penalty 15-21
Jarred Morrow vs Tyler Kimple kimple 2-1 18-21
Jessie Lintz vs Sean Mararo lintz 14-0 18-25
Tree Chavez vs Tyler Higgins Higgins pin 24-25
Gary Schoeppel vs Dalton Beard Beard 16-3 28-25
Shawn Marlatt vs Kevin Le Le 9-7 ot 31-25
Travis Anderson vs Tylor Woodruff Anderson Pin 31-31
Correction to 215 and 285
215 Tylor woodruff vs Shawn Marlatt - Woodruff 9-7 OT
285 Austin Killien vs Travis Anderson - Anderson Pin
Looks like it was pretty exciting!
becker was losing 5-2 when the match was ended.
Yes I wouldn't see the point in trading pin's by separating Little and Houlden ..
Yes I wouldn't see the point in trading pin's by separating Little and Houlden ..
Exactly.
Yes I wouldn't see the point in trading pin's by separating Little and Houlden ..
Exactly.
Unless one or both coaches thought Little vs Houlden was a toss-up. Then swapping pins would make more sense than a close loss, which of course would have decided this dual.
Yes I wouldn't see the point in trading pin's by separating Little and Houlden ..
Exactly.
Unless one or both coaches thought Little vs Houlden was a toss-up. Then swapping pins would make more sense than a close loss, which of course would have decided this dual.
Becker would have beaten Mitchell in my opinion. Even if Little lost a decision, it would have been a toss up. I think the main reason for Little going 140 was to get another weigh-in at that lower weight to give him the choice of weights at Regionals.
that was some toss out of bounds. Almost on the score table.
that was some toss out of bounds. Almost on the score table.
In my opinion, not flagrant. The article states that the whistle had been blown. Was he in the middle of the move at the time? Clearly, he was in a continuation move and was not looking at the mat.
"After the whistle had been blown, Goddard's Trey Houlden continued his move on Becker, which ended with Becker landing awkwardly on his head and neck off the mat on the basketball court."-Wichita Eagle, 1/27/11
How would Will rate that toss?
"After the whistle had been blown, Goddard's Trey Houlden continued his move on Becker, which ended with Becker landing awkwardly on his head and neck off the mat on the basketball court."-Wichita Eagle, 1/27/11
They sure missed that call. Watching the video, the whistle HAD NOT been blown. They were in mid air when the whistle blew. It looked like Trey was being driven off the mat and reacted, instead of finishing the throw he let go when the whistle was blown. The throw out of bounds was not after the whistle was blown which is clearly evident from the video. He started his counter well before the whistle. How people think you can just hit an Off switch in the middle I don't know. If he was trying to hurt him he would have driven him to the ground with his shoulder. People don't understand how wound up these kids get to compete and in no way is he going to be looking at the mat for out of bounds.
We are all glad that Becker is OK. He is one tough kid with a bright future!
The look on Houldens face was what makes him look soooo guilty. lol
Walking back to the mat with the look of "Ya! I just did that!"
But in no way could that move of been stopped at the time that the whistle was blown.
If I was Beckers parents would I be mad? HECK YES!
But the video clearly show it was unavoidable!
Just glad Becker is OK!
Awesome duel!
Totally lived up to the expectation!
People are really missing the real issue here. That is the ref was out of position. His one job is to protect the wrestlers and he could have prevented injury from happening by being in better position.
Lots of ref's will be out of position on that situation. Lets not throw the ref under the bus, and lets not throw Houldon under the bus. Its an unfortunate incident that happens in wrestling all the time. I'm surprised someone isn't pointing the finger at the Becker kid for pushing too hard on the edge of the mat(sarcasm). The only thing I disagree with in the situation is the DQ.. But that is a tough call in the heat of the moment of a rival dual.
I agree with JJETC, but i belive your being sarcastic about becker. In college your tought to keep pressure and keep going, which Becker was doing, keeps them from shooting in. Was good pressure by becker, and a good throw by Houlden, just an unfortunate landing, and situation.
why not put the ref under the bus, he is getting paid to be int he right position. so in fact we should be upset if he was not in the right position, if your getting paid to do it, do it right.
Willie, you would have been just as upset if the official was in the way and stopped the match just as a takedown was secured but not awarded because he interferred.
The official needs room to see what's going on, and can't always be "there" when he's supposed to because of action happening so quickly.
im not saying he was in the wrong im saying why should we not criticize, i would rather see someone trying to help the ref than everyone remain quiet and not offer any advice.
that was some toss out of bounds. Almost on the score table.
It was a toss FROM out of bounds.
Lots of good comments for both sides.
I am certainly not being critical of the official, particularly since he is a friend of mine and I think he is great. I am sure he was where he felt he should be, etc.
I do clearly remember though that when I wrestled in college at OState, the wrestlers would officiate tournaments on their off weekends to make extra money. We were definitely indoctrinated that we should always be between the wrestlers and the out of bounds. This was clearly stressed and for ten years when I was a HS head coach in Oklahoma back in the 90's this was the philosophy that was practiced according to my experiences and observations.
When I became a HS head coach in Kansas in 98, honestly, this was one of the first things that I noticed. The officials it seemed didn't really practice that philosophy and I am not sure why. Maybe they did but just never when I was watching. Maybe the Association has told the officials not to jeopardize themselves at the expense of the wrestler or not to impede the match, etc. and to just get out of the way. I do not know and I cannot say as I was never an official in Kansas other then when I was officiating ranking matches in the room. I do know that I did practice the before mentioned philosophy then. It seemed natural and it seemed like a good idea. What does the rule book say about this?
I am certainly not trying to be a hater because I really don't want to offend anyone so they are mad at me or disappointed with me, etc. I really do want people to like me. I certainly don't need any negative attention so my first instinct was not to respond. As the discussion progressed though I was obviously compelled to throw a few cents in. But again, I am certainly not being critical or passing judgement because I like living in a glass house, there's a lot of light and the view is great.
I would say though that just based on the scuttle so far with just this one instance that this is an issue that should at least be explored at the state level.
Goddard could have lost the dual and almost did because of this and my opinion is that would have been an injustice.
And yes, as I sat in the stands on my usual front row bearing close up witness to the incident and ensuing spectacle I thought of Wil and wondered what would he have to say about the whole thing.
I am glad that Becker will be ok and be back because no matter what side you are on, no parent or coach wants to or should have to see their kid in that situation. I certainly would not want to.
Best wishes to everyone, wrestlers, coaches, officials, parents, family members, etc., with the remainder of the season and with future endeavors in wrestling.
Lots of good comments for both sides.
...We were definitely indoctrinated that we should always be between the wrestlers and the out of bounds. ...The officials it seemed didn't really practice that philosophy and I am not sure why. Maybe they did but just never when I was watching. Maybe the Association has told the officials not to jeopardize themselves at the expense of the wrestler or not to impede the match, etc. and to just get out of the way. I do not know and I cannot say as I was never an official in Kansas other then when I was officiating ranking matches in the room. I do know that I did practice the before mentioned philosophy then. It seemed natural and it seemed like a good idea. What does the rule book say about this?...
XGHSWC:
May take is like yours. When I started officiating 14 years ago, I was taught by the older officials that I should position myself as to "catch" any wrestler going out of bounds.
Over the years, I've gone to many clinics, both KWOA and others, and the presentations made me change where I position myself on boundary situations - straddle the line. Many different reasons:
A) "It's not really our job to catch kids, going OB..."
B) "If you're catching a kid, how can you see the offensive kids toes dragging for the 2?"
C) "You need to position yourself in order to see all the action. Off the line and you'll miss stuff"
D) "If you get hurt...it's on you. We don't get workman's comp."
These are just some of the notes over the years of clinic I can recall/have. So if we go to the video, this official is doing exactly what I do and the countless others I officiate with - straddle the boundary to watch everything.
I will not comment on this particular situation of what wasn't called or what should have been called, as that's not fair to this official. I just wanted to address your comments of "philosophy"...
It was a toss FROM out of bounds.
It was a toss FROM out of bounds.
Wrestle till the whistle! When you are out the ref should blow the whistle. There was clearly no whistle till Becker was in the air. Your FROM is irrelevant.
I watch more on the out of bounds as there are a lot of kids that have started using the whole mat to wrestle and wrestle on the edge very well. As the style gets away from riding and more towards the technical takedowns, we must be in a position to award the points when they are secured. Either way, you'll never please everyone, and you're only right 50% of the time.
After watching the video several times it appears to me that the wrestling mat could have more of an edge or outer boundary. For a DII collegiate wrestling mat it appears to be a bit small. Maybe Newman could lay down some "accordion/folding" mats where the boundaries of the mat are at their narrowest. Then situations where a slam injury might happen would have less chance of occurring.