Kansas Wrestling
Read under another topic that a Kansas school split their team into 2 half teams to compete in 2 different tournments.

Not sure I agree with this. It denigrates at least one of the tournaments. This not in the spirit of high school sports. Appears to me, for lack of a better word: "commercialism". If you don't like that word, give me another. If you don't like one tournament, the location, the competition, whatever, go some place else (with your whole team). Don't cheapen either tournament by sending your JV to a varsity tournament.
If the top teams have deep and tough rosters, why limit where they wrestle? Do you really want them going to JV tournaments and pinning every opponent in the 1st period? One of them made the finals at Eudora. Did his participation "cheapen" or strengthen that bracket?
Why are you offended?

Teams have sent varsity wrestlers to tournaments and their JV to other tournaments for years?

GE has sent varsity wrestlers to Newton and JV wrestlers to the varsity tournament in Topeka and no one has complained? In fact Holton is doing the very same thing this year. Does that offend you also?

coaches have to find the best competition for their wrestlers given the schedule available.

Mark
Not everyone has 14 weights filled #1 plus not all teams have varsity type wrestlers that fill the weights they fill. Sending inexperianced wrestlers to JV is where they belong. If they get drubbed every week they will quit. Convincing these kids today to try wrestling is hard enough.
I see no problems with splitting. In some cases they should do it more for instance next week some of the top ranked kids will likely pin their way through brackets at the Johnson County Classic.. when some should be at the Kansas City Classic. Where there will be some scouts looking for talent to give money to. But not everyone on a roster should go to the Kansas City Classic, it wouldn't do a new wrestler any favors on their self esteem. I think it shows initiative.
Go to perry Oklahoma and see how good you are! Don't be scared!
I see no problem sending your team to 2 different varsity tournaments if you have the numbers and talent. We used to do this often back in the late 90's. I remember we sent our varsity to a 2 day tournament in Kansas, and our JV went to a varsity tournament in Colorado. Not only did our JV win the varsity tournament in Colorado Ulysses JV took 2nd. If you can compete in 2 tournaments I say go for it.
Maybe I was not clear. I personally did not like splitting a varsity team in half and sending 2 half teams to 2 different varsity tournaments. If I was a tournament director and a team sent me their second stringers, lesser half, or JVs, they would never get an invite or accepted again in my varsity tournament. Bring who you are and wrestle who is there.

I seriously doubt that if you asked the wrestling team members if they want to split into multiple teams and compete the same day in different tournaments if you would get a majority of yeas. What happens these days is a super active dad/dads and coaches think it is better for their semi professional teams to travel, travel, travel. Why go 250 to 500 miles to, Colorado, Iowa, Oklahoma, eastern Missouri, Illinois or wherever and still get your butts beat at a tournament 10 to 20 miles down the road. Does not make since. Too many excellent local tournaments!.

If a school wants to send their JVs to a JV tournament while the varsity is in a varsity tournament, be my guest.

Reference one replies reference to the Kansas City Classic, and several other of the same type tournaments. I don't categorize tournaments like this as high school tournaments. They are planned and run by businesses who are in the business to make money. Has nothing to do with the "spirit of high school sports". Have seen lots of good one day high school tournaments close because the traditional participant schools now want to go to a "CLASSIC", a Tournament of Champions", an Invitational"----those big two day tournaments held in two or three gyms plus the wrestling room. True high school sponsored tournaments are going/gone the way of Tuesday and/or Thursday night duals. If your team always wrestles "AWAY" then don't question or complain why your stands are empty in the(very) few times you are at home (probably only at the season opening red/white, blue/white, etc scrimmage).

Lots of wrestling supporters on this forum get upset if basketball is mentioned. But, if you go to their basketball court, or football stadium, on Friday night you will find a high school sports crowd---a crowd of students, families, and local folks who come out to see the boys (and girls). Most wrestling crowds are mom and dads, maybe a few gramps who wrestled 30 years ago, and a few younger kids---very few if any student fans.

Except for a couple of HARD ASS-S on this forum, BIGGER is not always BETTER.
JV is for newer wrestlers not inferior athletes. If a tournament wants to not invite because of this issue ( which is unlikely) they would find themselves having a smaller tournament in the future
"Deep and tough rosters".......give me break Chief...

Yes Hensley is in a tough situation. Tough good wrestler stuck behind some tough good wrestlers.

Thats one wrestler. You make it sound like SJA has a bunch of kids like Hensley sitting there on there JV team.
Sammy Cokeley is a tough freshman that is behind a state champ. He beat a state placer and the number 1 seed in his bracket. SJA has never been in a situation where they might have two kids who could qualify or even place at state that might have to be sitting in the stands supporting their teammates.

Congrats to Coach Medina for all you have accomplished and for accomplishments yet to come.
True. Another tough wrestler that is stuck in log jam.

Since weall know we are talking about SJA, why don't we have one of their own explain to us why SJA did a split team this weekend and not take your entire varsity team to Iowa?
I didn't know we were talking about SJA? And I would assume Medina Split HIS team up because some he didn't think were ready for that level of competition. And talking a hammer to a tough tournament where they might get some publicity under a spotlight. Could help get a kid some college money. You won't get at a local tournament. And putting kids on that podium helps the school get some spotlight time. Gary Mayabb did it for a decade with Oak Park it certainly served them well
Watch it. assuming on this site will get people yelling.

Wow...comparing SJA to Oak Park......SJA has had a few horsese over the last few years but comparing then t o OAk Park? Nice opinion.

"Not ready for that level of competition" so send them Eudora? That type of thinking might be what rubs people to wrong way.
you think Oak Park just suddenly became a power house? It didn't they had to start somewhere... the beginning And Mayabb made no friends in the process. Also nobody is gonna yell at me on or off forum. Cause I don't like it
Looked at the team list of the Council Bluff Classic. 28 teams. Wife from Iowa and traveled a lot in Iowa. Teams in the tournament are not the Iowa power houses. Looks like a lot of mid to smaller 4A or even 321A Kansas teams. Doubt if it was a "hammer" tournament, probably not as good as the Eudora TOC, certainly not any better!

Prestige does not necessarily come with travel distance. Actually, individual wrestler and team prestige is a lot better when earned in front of your fellow students, team members, local opponents and fans.
Well said. Eudora TOC didn't become a good, tough tournament by allowing teams to take their "horses" to another tournament and settling for a teams "not quite ready for tough competion" team.

Then agian we have not h
eard from the horses mouth why they did it, so we may never know.
Your right never any hammers in smaller schools..??? Actually Wrestler and team prestige is earned at state and qualifiers that's for the fans and school. The rest of the season is for the kids and for testing ones self. Hell sometimes we travel long distances to wrestle 1 tough kid. If you don't lose matches your not being tested... being beaten is how u get better. going undefeated is highly over rated
Originally Posted By: WillyM
Looked at the team list of the Council Bluff Classic. 28 teams. Wife from Iowa and traveled a lot in Iowa. Teams in the tournament are not the Iowa power houses. Looks like a lot of mid to smaller 4A or even 321A Kansas teams. Doubt if it was a "hammer" tournament, probably not as good as the Eudora TOC, certainly not any better!

Prestige does not necessarily come with travel distance. Actually, individual wrestler and team prestige is a lot better when earned in front of your fellow students, team members, local opponents and fans.


6 teams had to back out of the Council Bluff Classic. I think that this is also the first year for the Council Bluffs Classic. Lance Benick is the number 1 ranked 195# in the country and his team traveled there from Minnesota. That's what these big tournaments that you claim are "only in it for the money and not for the spirit of high school sports" are trying to do. They want to bring in tough competition from all over the nation to see who the best in the country is. The Walsh Ironman, which is sponsored by Walsh-Jesuit High School is doing just that. Flowrestling does a great job to promote those types of tournament to get a bigger fan base for the sport. Then you will see more students in the stands at your duals.

Eudora TOC was missing some of its tougher teams as well. Tongie had to back out because of weather. Chanute left Eudora to go to Perry. I know Holton used to go to Eudora as well but cannot remember the last time they were there. Point is teams travel to different tournaments to see different competition. Some wrestlers have higher goals than just being a State Champ. Some of them want to wrestle at the college level and the best way to get out of state college coaches attention is too travel to some of these out of state tournaments.

As far as your prestige comment goes. Try telling that to teams like Blair Academy or Oak Park-Riverforest, or individuals like Aaron Pico.
Originally Posted By: rccokeley
Originally Posted By: WillyM
Looked at the team list of the Council Bluff Classic. 28 teams. Wife from Iowa and traveled a lot in Iowa. Teams in the tournament are not the Iowa power houses. Looks like a lot of mid to smaller 4A or even 321A Kansas teams. Doubt if it was a "hammer" tournament, probably not as good as the Eudora TOC, certainly not any better!

Prestige does not necessarily come with travel distance. Actually, individual wrestler and team prestige is a lot better when earned in front of your fellow students, team members, local opponents and fans.


6 teams had to back out of the Council Bluff Classic. I think that this is also the first year for the Council Bluffs Classic. Lance Benick is the number 1 ranked 195# in the country and his team traveled there from Minnesota. That's what these big tournaments that you claim are "only in it for the money and not for the spirit of high school sports" are trying to do. They want to bring in tough competition from all over the nation to see who the best in the country is. The Walsh Ironman, which is sponsored by Walsh-Jesuit High School is doing just that. Flowrestling does a great job to promote those types of tournament to get a bigger fan base for the sport. Then you will see more students in the stands at your duals.

Eudora TOC was missing some of its tougher teams as well. Tongie had to back out because of weather. Chanute left Eudora to go to Perry. I know Holton used to go to Eudora as well but cannot remember the last time they were there. Point is teams travel to different tournaments to see different competition. Some wrestlers have higher goals than just being a State Champ. Some of them want to wrestle at the college level and the best way to get out of state college coaches attention is too travel to some of these out of state tournaments.

As far as your prestige comment goes. Try telling that to teams like Blair Academy or Oak Park-Riverforest, or individuals like Aaron Pico.


We are not Blair Academy, or OAK Park River-forest, or Aaron Pico (is that an individual or a school?. This is not Ohio or New Jersey. This is Kansas Toto. 20 years ago I happened to be in New Jersey during the state tournament and got to watch it on TV. Hard to even attempt the measure Kansas wrestling against the east coast schools. Almost every NJ wrestler was headed to a quality college wrestling program. Lots more schools, wrestlers and competition just down the street or around the corner. Doubt many wrestlers at Council Bluffs are headed back east for college wrestling.
So wouldn't you like to see one of our schools grow into a Blair or OP-Riverforest? Or even better? When I asked Michael Olsen why he was wrestling up a weight this weekend at Eudora his answer was, "To be the best you have to wrestle the best!" That's the mentality more kids and teams need to have and you will not always get the best competition around your area so some teams, like Olathe North, Olathe South, and SJA try to travel outside the state. The mentality you are showing is clearly not the same as Michaels.
Bill,
Were you at the Eudora TOC? I know you were not in Council Bluffs. You don't coach, you don't have any kids wrestling, why do you care? At this point I am going to have to assume you are the gentleman that went to the tournament management team in Eudora and suggested that they NOT invite SJA next year. Why do you care? Why don't you ask the kids? Kids got 36 matches that they would not have otherwise gotten. If you think Kansas kids should only wrestle Kansas kids then move to Michigan where their HS athletic association doesn't permit travel outside of the state. Maybe you will be happier there. If you like wrestling then watch it and enjoy. I have no idea what your goal is but it certainly has nothing to do with making Kansas wrestling better.

Eudora Tournament of Champions Results for St. James Academy
106 - TJ Miller (3-2) placed 24th and scored 3.00 team points.
Round 1 - TJ Miller (St. James Academy) 3-2 received a bye () (Bye)
Round 2 - Hunter Ostertag (Effingham-ACCHS) 13-3 won by fall over TJ Miller (St. James Academy) 3-2 (Fall 0:44)
Round 3 - Tanner Snow (Prairie View) 15-3 won by fall over TJ Miller (St. James Academy) 3-2 (Fall 1:48)
Round 4 - TJ Miller (St. James Academy) 3-2 received a bye () (Bye)
Round 5 - TJ Miller (St. James Academy) 3-2 received a bye () (Bye)

126 - Max Goode (3-2) placed 24th and scored 4.00 team points.
Round 1 - Max Goode (St. James Academy) 3-2 received a bye () (Bye)
Round 2 - Cody Slyter (Spring Hill) 8-5 won by fall over Max Goode (St. James Academy) 3-2 (Fall 3:38)
Round 3 - Jerad Heckman (Ft Scott) 7-1 won by fall over Max Goode (St. James Academy) 3-2 (Fall 4:26)
Round 4 - Max Goode (St. James Academy) 3-2 received a bye () (Bye)
Round 5 - Max Goode (St. James Academy) 3-2 won by major decision over Reece Williams (Wellsville) 5-5 (MD 13-4)

132 - Tyler Hensley (6-2) placed 2nd and scored 30.00 team points.
Round 1 - Tyler Hensley (St. James Academy) 6-2 won by fall over Chase Holub (Paola) 5-4 (Fall 3:16)
Round 2 - Tyler Hensley (St. James Academy) 6-2 received a bye () (Bye)
Round 3 - Tyler Hensley (St. James Academy) 6-2 received a bye () (Bye)
Round 4 - Tyler Hensley (St. James Academy) 6-2 won by fall over Timotheus Boyd (KC Sumner) 2-7 (Fall 1:33)
Round 5 - Jake Gentry (Rossville) 8-3 won by decision over Tyler Hensley (St. James Academy) 6-2 (Dec 7-5)
Quarterfinal - Tyler Hensley (St. James Academy) 6-2 won by fall over Jordan Girard (Lansing) 5-3 (Fall 5:54)
Semifinal - Tyler Hensley (St. James Academy) 6-2 won by fall over Logan Bowen (Effingham-ACCHS) 14-2 (Fall 3:54)
1st Place Match - Logan Marx (Mill Valley) 12-1 won by decision over Tyler Hensley (St. James Academy) 6-2 (Dec 7-4)

138 - Sammy Cokeley (5-3) placed 7th and scored 14.00 team points.
Round 1 - Sammy Cokeley (St. James Academy) 5-3 received a bye () (Bye)
Round 2 - Brad Smith (Spring Hill) 10-4 won by fall over Sammy Cokeley (St. James Academy) 5-3 (Fall 2:13)
Round 3 - Sammy Cokeley (St. James Academy) 5-3 won by decision over Willy Dieckman (Effingham-ACCHS) 11-1 (Dec 4-3)
Round 4 - Sammy Cokeley (St. James Academy) 5-3 won by fall over Lewis Smith (Shawnee Mission South) 4-7 (Fall 5:04)
Round 5 - Sammy Cokeley (St. James Academy) 5-3 won by fall over Ben Powers (Louisburg) 5-5 (Fall 0:36)
Quarterfinal - Jake Elbrader (St. Thomas Aquinas) 13-0 won by major decision over Sammy Cokeley (St. James Academy) 5-3 (MD 10-0)
Cons. Round 2 - (Maize South) 11-2 won by decision over Sammy Cokeley (St. James Academy) 5-3 (Dec 8-2)
7th Place Match - Sammy Cokeley (St. James Academy) 5-3 won by decision over Hunter Miller (DeSoto) 4-4 (Dec 13-6)

145 - Curtis Radakovich (1-4) placed 24th and scored 1.00 team points.
Round 1 - Jon Pratt (Baldwin) 8-4 won by fall over Curtis Radakovich (St. James Academy) 1-4 (Fall 5:59)
Round 2 - Tanner Madl (Blue Valley) 11-3 won by fall over Curtis Radakovich (St. James Academy) 1-4 (Fall 3:43)
Round 3 - Marcus Gaeddert (Buhler) 4-6 won by fall over Curtis Radakovich (St. James Academy) 1-4 (Fall 5:19)
Round 4 - Keaton Barnes (Paola) 5-5 won by decision over Curtis Radakovich (St. James Academy) 1-4 (Dec 5-0)
Round 5 - Curtis Radakovich (St. James Academy) 1-4 received a bye () (Bye)

152 - Tanner Schmidt (1-4) placed 24th and scored 1.00 team points.
Round 1 - Caleb Volkman (Spring Hill) 8-5 won by fall over Tanner Schmidt (St. James Academy) 1-4 (Fall 0:56)
Round 2 - Michael Olsen (Lansing) 13-0 won by fall over Tanner Schmidt (St. James Academy) 1-4 (Fall 0:16)
Round 3 - Avery Reynolds (Shawnee Mission South) 6-5 won by fall over Tanner Schmidt (St. James Academy) 1-4 (Fall 2:40)
Round 4 - Blaine Ray (Ottawa) 4-6 won by decision over Tanner Schmidt (St. James Academy) 1-4 (Dec 10-4)
Round 5 - Tanner Schmidt (St. James Academy) 1-4 received a bye () (Bye)

160 - Derek Knoeferl (1-4) placed 24th and scored 1.00 team points.
Round 1 - Owen Tuckfield (Baldwin) 9-5 won by major decision over Derek Knoeferl (St. James Academy) 1-4 (MD 10-2)
Round 2 - Isaisa Rojo (Lawrence) 5-4 won by fall over Derek Knoeferl (St. James Academy) 1-4 (Fall 1:01)
Round 3 - Foster Hartman (Blue Valley) 4-6 won by fall over Derek Knoeferl (St. James Academy) 1-4 (Fall 0:21)
Round 4 - Seth Burnett (Mill Valley) 10-4 won by fall over Derek Knoeferl (St. James Academy) 1-4 (Fall 1:19)
Round 5 - Derek Knoeferl (St. James Academy) 1-4 received a bye () (Bye)

220 - David Feist (7-1) placed 2nd and scored 34.00 team points.
Round 1 - David Feist (St. James Academy) 7-1 won by fall over Kristian Ellis (Shawnee Mission South) 5-6 (Fall 2:00)
Round 2 - David Feist (St. James Academy) 7-1 received a bye () (Bye)
Round 3 - David Feist (St. James Academy) 7-1 won by fall over Brennan Haley (Paola) 4-6 (Fall 1:36)
Round 4 - David Feist (St. James Academy) 7-1 received a bye () (Bye)
Round 5 - David Feist (St. James Academy) 7-1 won by forfeit over Daylen Pressler (Prairie View) 13-5 (For.)
Quarterfinal - David Feist (St. James Academy) 7-1 won by fall over CJ Dyhouse (Spring Hill) 7-6 (Fall 0:47)
Semifinal - David Feist (St. James Academy) 7-1 won by fall over Chandler Carter (DeSoto) 7-2 (Fall 2:37)
1st Place Match - Ben Ewing (St. Thomas Aquinas) 13-0 won by forfeit over David Feist (St. James Academy) 7-1 (For.)
Originally Posted By: Just Wondering
True. Another tough wrestler that is stuck in log jam.

Since weall know we are talking about SJA, why don't we have one of their own explain to us why SJA did a split team this weekend and not take your entire varsity team to Iowa?


Injuries, illness, academics, and strategy. Every year, for the past 7 years at least, Derby has sent a split squad to at least Douglas and SMNW but it has never been a topic on here before. Coach Bacon told me that he used to send his Blue Vally JV to Varsity tournaments when he had the numbers. Mill Valley has a full varsity schedule for its JV team this year. Eudora is a good tournament but without Chanute, Gardner, Tongie, Holton now missing it isn't what it used to be. It was NOT as tough as the Council Bluff tournament. Champions vs Champions would be 11-3, Council Bluffs champions leading the way.
Will,

"Making kansas wrestling better" So quality teams (chanute, ON, SJA...etc) and quality kids not wrestling at the Eudora TOC makes kansas wrestling and kansas wrestling tournaments better?


not taking full team was "strategy". Could you explain?







Not me! must have been some other gentleman who went to Eudora and made a recommendation on who/who not to invite. That's a tournament director's call. But, if I were a tournament director 1) I would not accept a JV team entry into my tournament and 20 if I thought you were cheapening my tournament by taking you top wrestlers to another tournament and sending me your second stringers or mostly JV, you would not get an invite. If you can't fill a complete roster with varsity quality wrestlers, then go with a bunch of openings. If you have a couple/few temporary openings due to injury, grades, discipline, etc. by all means flesh out with a good JV wrestler. If you have a good-and I mean good- JV wrestler locked out by a better varsity wrestler, see if he can wrestle up a weight class. The exceptions and not the rule.

Doubt if the Council bluffs tournament was much better than Eudora. What about the SMNW Cougar TOC--a very good list of teams. Or the Holton 12 team tournament (Holton, Clay Center, Beloit, and several other of those smaller schools can kick about any body's butt on any day). Check out this forum on the reports of near by tournaments.

Originally Posted By: Just Wondering
"Deep and tough rosters".......give me break Chief...

Yes Hensley is in a tough situation. Tough good wrestler stuck behind some tough good wrestlers.

Thats one wrestler. You make it sound like SJA has a bunch of kids like Hensley sitting there on there JV team.


St. James JV would place top 10 at the Johnson County Classic.
How many people expected a comment like that from Chief?
Originally Posted By: Just Wondering
How many people expected a comment like that from Chief?


Just Wandering,

Do you agree?
Originally Posted By: Just Wondering
Will,

"Making kansas wrestling better" So quality teams (chanute, ON, SJA...etc) and quality kids not wrestling at the Eudora TOC makes kansas wrestling and kansas wrestling tournaments better?


not taking full team was "strategy". Could you explain?


If you have kids with varying levels of skills you tailor your schedule to improve them all. I, for one, don't want to wrestle anyone more than once during the season so mix it up. I don't believe in going with the same schedule year in and year out. I don't believe in wrestling kids multiple times. I think my position speaks for itself. JW, tell me how sending competitive wrestlers whether they are called varsity 1, varsity 2, or JV makes KS wrestling worse? Chanute left to go to Perry, OK to seek tougher competition so direct that question to Andy Albright. Gardner must have felt the same way about the tournament they wanted to attend. I think travel makes the sport more attractive to the athletes as well. Time in a van with your teammates and sharing a hotel room is quality team bonding. A life time of memories you don't get by being dropped off at the nearest tournament every weekend. I would hope every team has goals that go something like this: qualify as many as state as we can, get each wrestler ready to place as high as they can and then the team score will take care of itself. Of course staying healthy and academically eligible comes into play as well. State is the ultimate goal. It is a two day, individual event with two weigh ins. It requires two nights in hotels. How do you prepare for that? Go to as many two day events which require two weigh ins and overnight stays! Pretty simple. Wrestle kids who are the toughest you can find in venues that will make state seem less intimidating. There you go... the secret formula.
Originally Posted By: Cokeley
Originally Posted By: Just Wondering
True. Another tough wrestler that is stuck in log jam.

Since weall know we are talking about SJA, why don't we have one of their own explain to us why SJA did a split team this weekend and not take your entire varsity team to Iowa?


Injuries, illness, academics, and strategy. Every year, for the past 7 years at least, Derby has sent a split squad to at least Douglas and SMNW but it has never been a topic on here before. Coach Bacon told me that he used to send his Blue Vally JV to Varsity tournaments when he had the numbers. Mill Valley has a full varsity schedule for its JV team this year. Eudora is a good tournament but without Chanute, Gardner, Tongie, Holton now missing it isn't what it used to be. It was NOT as tough as the Council Bluff tournament. Champions vs Champions would be 11-3, Council Bluffs champions leading the way.


The answer is...District one bitching about District one. The rest of the state doesn't care who goes where. They just show up and wrestle.
Originally Posted By: Cokeley
Originally Posted By: Just Wondering
Will,

"Making kansas wrestling better" So quality teams (chanute, ON, SJA...etc) and quality kids not wrestling at the Eudora TOC makes kansas wrestling and kansas wrestling tournaments better?


not taking full team was "strategy". Could you explain?


If you have kids with varying levels of skills you tailor your schedule to improve them all. I, for one, don't want to wrestle anyone more than once during the season so mix it up. I don't believe in going with the same schedule year in and year out. I don't believe in wrestling kids multiple times. I think my position speaks for itself. JW, tell me how sending competitive wrestlers whether they are called varsity 1, varsity 2, or JV makes KS wrestling worse? Chanute left to go to Perry, OK to seek tougher competition so direct that question to Andy Albright. Gardner must have felt the same way about the tournament they wanted to attend. I think travel makes the sport more attractive to the athletes as well. Time in a van with your teammates and sharing a hotel room is quality team bonding. A life time of memories you don't get by being dropped off at the nearest tournament every weekend. I would hope every team has goals that go something like this: qualify as many as state as we can, get each wrestler ready to place as high as they can and then the team score will take care of itself. Of course staying healthy and academically eligible comes into play as well. State is the ultimate goal. It is a two day, individual event with two weigh ins. It requires two nights in hotels. How do you prepare for that? Go to as many two day events which require two weigh ins and overnight stays! Pretty simple. Wrestle kids who are the toughest you can find in venues that will make state seem less intimidating. There you go... the secret formula.


Will is correct. State is the easiest tournament of the year for Ark City. Regionals is tougher than State.
Three thoughts

1/I think the thunder should enter a team in both tournaments.
Is there a rule?

2/The Thunder can go to the stampede but but no one is going to put an astoric (SP) on the championship trophy, *Little sisters of the poor was missing their best wrestler who didn't make weight -so the team race should be different" or what ever "Fact" ST Will can come up with.


3/ who cares. It is about who shows up and wrestles!
Originally Posted By: back in the day
Three thoughts

1/I think the thunder should enter a team in both tournaments.
Is there a rule?

2/The Thunder can go to the stampede but but no one is going to put an astoric (SP) on the championship trophy, *Little sisters of the poor was missing their best wrestler who didn't make weight -so the team race should be different" or what ever "Fact" ST Will can come up with.


3/ who cares. It is about who shows up and wrestles!



#2 ??? What is that all about??? I am no Saint. I am not even Catholic. I only made that statement to explain how results differed from rankings. I didn't expect that attack from you Mark.
Yeah I don't know that there's a right wrong here. This doesn't fit every team or school. But we've definitely ruffled some feathers today. Good job thunder u do what's best you and yours. Mean while Kansas Wrestling is getting better every year

Chad take that district 1 BS to the kids forum. The adults are talking Lol hater
The DISTRICT ONE....Ummmm ADULTS ;-)
Ps..the boys looked pretty dam awesome today I'm told toughest Kansas team ever
Of course, first year you guys picked up some District 2 guys whistle Seriously I heard the team did really well.
Nothing wrong with sending two teams out in a weekend. If you got depth, why not get these kids matches. SJA is top team in the state and one of the reasons is they have good competition in the room. Someone has to loose a challenge match, and it doesnt mean the kid is only good enough to wrestle a JV level because he lost a challenge match.

MY son's team in Indiana has two varsity teams. We have a Varsity A and Varsity B team. Coach gets really gets mad if somebody calls the Varsity B a JV team. The Varsity B has won two varsity tournaments this year already. They weren't the toughest tournaments and against small schools but still impressive. We have 65 kids out, and this is a huge motivator to keep kids involved and hungry. It also accelerates the kids progression as they are wrestling stronger competition.

A lot of schools dont necessarily like to wrestle the 2nd team because if you win, they think they were supposed to win and if they lose they lost to the 2nd team guy. I think some coaches just dont like to come to the realization that some teams 2nd string is better thatn their first.

I know a lot of schools in OH and Indiana have two teams, and its becoming accepted as a norm. A really good team in Indiana this weekend won two tournaments and placed 3rd in another tournament. We wrestled one of these teams and they were solid and it was a hammer tournament.
We send our JV to a couple of varsity tournaments every year. Over the past couple of years, we have had quite a few kids go from JV one year to the state podium the next year. I think sending our JV to a few varsity tournaments has helped in this!

I also think these varsity tournament directors and the teams in attendance are happy to have our JV team at their varsity tourney because a match is better than a bye!
FOTS / RJW1

Well stated and I completelyt agree IF you have two teams. Not sure anyone is saying if you have two teams don't send them out.

My dislike is when a teams SPLITS their teams. And both tournaments then get a 5, 6, 7 man TEAM.

appreciate you thoughts and opinions.




A few years ago, my team was attending the Garden Plain varsity tournament. I eventually moved my team to a tougher tournament but kept Garden Plain on the schedule for my J.V. I sent them one year and I believe they placed in the top 3. The next year, the A.D. sent an email asking if we were going to send our varsity kids this year. I said we would not be. They then told us they did not want us coming unless it was our #1's. So basically we were kicked out for not bringing our varsity. I agree with Rick!

I have always had high regard for the Garden Plain community and still do. However, this decision baffled me.
I guess the next step is to tell the wrestlers and coaches from Lansing, Mill Valley, STA, Prairie View, Baldwin, etc. that their good showing at the Eudora TOC was meaningless, the TOC was inferior competition, SJA good guys were not their, and most of the other teams were JVs. The SMNW Cougar was also probably all the good wrestlers were split off ands went to Iowa, Colorado, Tim Buk tu to better, more competitive tournaments.

Understand the B/L Bobcat Classic is inviting split and JV teams from a few Kansas powerhouses. And, the KC Metro Classic is now open to JV wrestlers.

A point missed in this topic is that sending split and/or JV teams into what thought to be a good competitive tournament (if not why call it a CLASSIC or a TOC) robs all other wrestlers an opportunity to wrestle the top/the quality guys. Why train most of the year, do the road miles, diet and cut weight, work hard, earn your spot on the varsity if its all for nil and be a punching bag for the good guys and their JVs. I always thought every match was a training event. So, I think wrestling the powerhouse scrubs and JV robs all the other wrestlers at a tournament of the chance to get better.
If you want to wrestle against some of the best wrestlers in the nation you will either have to travel. Or they will have to travel to you. Either way someone is traveling.
Originally Posted By: WillyM

A point missed in this topic is that sending split and/or JV teams into what thought to be a good competitive tournament (if not why call it a CLASSIC or a TOC) robs all other wrestlers an opportunity to wrestle the top/the quality guys. Why train most of the year, do the road miles, diet and cut weight, work hard, earn your spot on the varsity if its all for nil and be a punching bag for the good guys and their JVs. I always thought every match was a training event. So, I think wrestling the powerhouse scrubs and JV robs all the other wrestlers at a tournament of the chance to get better.


Didn't the SJA powerhouse scrubs take 3rd. If you want a tougher tournament, maybe the director should get rid of some of the weaker varsity teams instead of SJA powerhouse scrub team. And who cares if they call it a TOC or classic, does that really make it more prestigous tournament. It doesnt diminish what Lansing or Mill Valley accomplished, in any way. Maybe the coaches should recognize that whatever SJA is doing is pretty darn succesful and they are at the point where their second team (powerhouse scrubs) is almost as good as some of the better teams in the area. And instead of trying to criticize the SJA accomplishments, maybe they should be trying to copy what SJA is doing if they want to to get the top level wher SJA is right now.
Nope!!!!! SJA scrubs and JV placed 17th in a 23 team field at Eudora. STA placed 3rd at Eudora.

SJA good guys placed 5th at Council Bluffs. Olathe North was 6th and Olathe South was 26th at Council Bluffs (28 team field). That must have been the Olathe South scrub/JV team!

Tough to get better when wrestling the other guys scrubs and JV.

And tournament names hopefully do mean something--hopefully the name describes the expected level of competition. Apparently not so. What sounds better: The Eudora Tournament of Champions, or just the Eudora Tournament?
I think calling these wrestlers scrubs just because they are not varsity wrestlers is degrading. I would think that their performance on the mat proved that they had just as much business being there as any other team.
Call them what you want--they were not the first team! If they were not good enough to go to Council Bluffs with the first team, then they were not good enough to go to any other varsity tournament. All the other varsity wrestlers from all the other varsity teams at Eudora are not punching bags or practice mats for anybody's scrubs and JV.

They proved nothing on the mat. They finished 17th out of 23..
Originally Posted By: WillyM
Call them what you want--they were not the first team! If they were not good enough to go to Council Bluffs with the first team, then they were not good enough to go to any other varsity tournament. All the other varsity wrestlers from all the other varsity teams at Eudora are not punching bags or practice mats for anybody's scrubs and JV.

They proved nothing on the mat. They finished 17th out of 23..


Wrong Willy. They proved they were better than 6 other teams in that tournament. So what about those 6 other teams, they must be really bad according to your stadards. What do you call a team thats lower than a bunch of nobody, punching bag JV scrubs, letter jacket wannabes that dont deserve to be on the mat in this tournament. You must really think they suck.
I can't say how bad any other teams are. My son wrestles for Eudora. I won't say they are bad but what I will say is they have 12 kids on the team. 2 have high school experience. 5 have injuries. So out of the 6 that wrestled at the tourney. 2 had more than one yrs of wrestling. One was a soph and one was a freshman. Both have wrestled since they were 5. And the freshman placed 5th in 120lbs. The other 4 are first year wrestlers. All gave their all. It's just the cards we was dealt..
They had 2 second place finisher. God job. But why did these two wrestlers not go to Council Bluffs. They also had one 7th and 5 24th place finishes.
Willy, nothing wrong with you having an opinion on the subject BUT lets stay away from calling any kid a scrub.....really necessary?
Originally Posted By: Just Wondering
Willy, nothing wrong with you having an opinion on the subject BUT lets stay away from calling any kid a scrub.....really necessary?


Nothing wrong with an opinion...but there is something wrong with being a cry baby. That's just how life is, they didn't want to send the whole team and they didn't. No amount of crying is going to change that.
WillyM
What is wrong with you that you would be completely disrespectful to these kids no matter what school they are from. These kids work hard everyday and some 365 day a year. They made weight and wrestling tough for two days. You have no right to call them scrubs. Some of these kids read this forum and they are reading you trash their accomplishments. For that matter, Lansing kids are reading this and you're trashing what they earned.

Do you have that little respect for the sport and the kids who wrestling in it to trash them?

If you don't like something - change it with your school and their schedule, but don't trash kids.
Originally Posted By: Jrogers
I can't say how bad any other teams are. My son wrestles for Eudora. I won't say they are bad but what I will say is they have 12 kids on the team. 2 have high school experience. 5 have injuries. So out of the 6 that wrestled at the tourney. 2 had more than one yrs of wrestling. One was a soph and one was a freshman. Both have wrestled since they were 5. And the freshman placed 5th in 120lbs. The other 4 are first year wrestlers. All gave their all. It's just the cards we was dealt..


Good show with what you had. Hope your coaching staff is building your team by entering your younger wrestlers in every JV tournament he can find. Entering a varsity tournament and getting your butt slammed teaches nothing. Nice for a 9th or 10th grader to say he is on the varsity, but if not winning needs to go down to his competitive level. Sitting the varsity bench just to talk up the girls at the lunch counter means nothing!

A short story. 19 years ago when my son was a HS freshman--and a very good soccer player--the HS coach told me he was going to keep him up with the varsity. My response to the coach was if he was getting varsity playing time OK. But I did not want to see him just sitting on the varsity bench and not even getting JV experience. He got varsity time as a sub and by the 3rd game he was starting--and continued starting for the next 3 years--all conference soccer 3 years, 2 years junior college soccer. My point is, sometimes the parent has to manage both his athlete and the coach. Seen too many kids sit the varsity bench and get no playing time at any level.
[quote=WillyM
Good show with what you had. Hope your coaching staff is building your team by entering your younger wrestlers in every JV tournament he can find. Entering a varsity tournament and getting your butt slammed teaches nothing. Nice for a 9th or 10th grader to say he is on the varsity, but if not winning needs to go down to his competitive level. Sitting the varsity bench just to talk up the girls at the lunch counter means nothing!

A short story. 19 years ago when my son was a HS freshman--and a very good soccer player--the HS coach told me he was going to keep him up with the varsity. My response to the coach was if he was getting varsity playing time OK. But I did not want to see him just sitting on the varsity bench and not even getting JV experience. He got varsity time as a sub and by the 3rd game he was starting--and continued starting for the next 3 years--all conference soccer 3 years, 2 years junior college soccer. My point is, sometimes the parent has to manage both his athlete and the coach. Seen too many kids sit the varsity bench and get no playing time at any level. [/quote]


When you where "Managing" the coach 19 years ago, did you tell the coach that my son is a JV scrub only good enough to be a punching bag if he cant start. Did you tell your kid your a JV, punching bag scrub if you dont make the varsity.

MY son is on the varsity level and he has had 3 guys challenging him for his spot and gets challenged every week and is getting challenged tonight. I manage the coach and tell him my kid is going to fight as hard as he can to retain that varisity spot. But if he loses, the coach will send him with the second team to a varsity tourmanent and he will get him the best competition he can so he can continue to progess. I wont call him a scrub or that he's only good enough to be a punching bag. I might try to say something supportive to build his confidence, but not call him a scrub.
WillyM

How many teams brought a full line-up to Eudora just 1 which was lansing. Some teams brought 5 guys total so why does it matter if a team brought quality JV kids to a varsity tournament.Its all about kids getting matches I saw one bracket this weekend at Eudora were a kid had zero matches on friday.
I know a kid from Lansing had 0 matches on Friday. I believe it was in 113lb class.
My son the "freshman" is having a blast on the Eudora wrestling team. Sure he will have some losses this year but he is 12-3 on the varsity team. He is fully capable of competing at the varsity level.
A parents job is not to Manage the Coach or the Athlete. A parents job is to support the coach, unless they suspect abuse, and then the parent better tread lightly. Parents trying to manage coaches get college athletes dismissed from the team. They are not worth the headache that the parents cause. Looking at this topic, I have a headache.
Originally Posted By: Jrogers
I know a kid from Lansing had 0 matches on Friday. I believe it was in 113lb class.
My son the "freshman" is having a blast on the Eudora wrestling team. Sure he will have some losses this year but he is 12-3 on the varsity team. He is fully capable of competing at the varsity level.


If he is 12-3 on the varsity team than he must be a varsity level wrestler. Way to go Mr. freshman. Keep up the good work. Looking forward to seeing you at state!
Bill,

You won't be seeing Eudora at state. They are in 4A which means he will be wrestling in Salina if he makes it. Your team will be in Wichita where the 5A and 6A state tournaments are held. Maybe you aren't planning to attend as there will probably be some good indoor soccer going on somewhere.

Clearly you have no business trying to teach us how to make wrestling better if you are really a soccer dad. That coupled with your ridiculous logic and conflicting statements might make you the most amusing poster of this season so far. Please keep up the comedic entertainment.
Beeson!! Don't ever believe all coaches are always working in the best interest of their players. Many coaches are first protecting their jobs! In many cases kids are probably number 2 or 3 down the coaches priority list. Good coaches can't be replaced, poor coaches can.

Did your Ark City coaches micro manage you into tournaments of scrubs and JVs to build your resumes, or split your teams and leave you at home. Probably not!

Originally Posted By: WillyM
Beeson!! Don't ever believe all coaches are always working in the best interest of their players. Many coaches are first protecting their jobs! In many cases kids are probably number 2 or 3 down the coaches priority list. Good coaches can't be replaced, poor coaches can.

Did your Ark City coaches micro manage you into tournaments of scrubs and JVs to build your resumes, or split your teams and leave you at home. Probably not!



Can you help us all out and tell us how we can replace you on the forum with someone who isn't a wresting idiot?
WillyM

What in the Hell are you talking about?

"Beeson!! Don't ever believe all coaches are always working in the best interest of their players. Many coaches are first protecting their jobs! In many cases kids are probably number 2 or 3 down the coaches priority list. Good coaches can't be replaced, poor coaches can."

Are you not around the wrestling community to know we are all a family that looks out for the kids and helping this sport grow in Kansas - EVERY WEEKEND. From the time they are in Kids club, High School and even College this community is looking out for them.

Are you just on here to stir up trouble cause you have nothing better to do?

You need to stop talking about these kids that went to the tournament like they are nothing. Every kid there had earned the right to be there. They are good hard working kids.

What is your dog in this fight - but to stir trouble.
Cokeley!!!! KISS MY PATOOTIE!
Now we are having fun on the gossip page!
Originally Posted By: WillyM
Cokeley!!!! KISS MY PATOOTIE!


I think I would rather watch you go take downs with my "scrub" 14 year old son.
Is Reese 14
No Reese is 17. Sam is 14. Both of which read this forum so Bill let's refrain from calling anybody scrubs. Don't want to piss off the wrong people.
At the end of the season each school gets to have one team of, at most, 14 wrestlers. They will be the best, eligible wrestlers at their weight for their school. It doesn't matter whether they got their mat time in KS, OK, MO, IA, CO, TX, NE, or wherever within 500 miles of the KS border. It doesn't matter whether their matches were against JV, Varsity, third stringers, or just practice partners. They will battle 7, 15, 14 or ?? (321A regionals are not as fixed) other teams to see if they can place in the top 4. If they do they will travel to Hays, Salina or Wichita in late February and hope that all they have sacrificed and worked hard for will get them onto or to the top of the podium on March 1st. Good luck to all studs and scrubs alike. I hope the best for all of you no matter what your preparation strategy is!
Amen
This guy may have a legitimate reason for the continuation of this subject. I would look into the possibility of having three copies of the no. 21 chromosome. It would be worth checking, as to assure that it is not hereditary. jmo
It's all fun and games in the cyberspace. Til u bump into a pissed 250lb Sammy fan in public. And have to answer
I want to clarify my position:

1. Travel all you want and can afford. But, take your whole team. Don't leave your subs and JV for our local tournaments.

2. Don't call you subs and JV a varsity team that cheapens our local varsity tournaments and competition.

3. Entering a team of your second string and JV robs everyone else of a varsity training opportunity. There is limited/no training value for a good/ranked varsity wrestler slamming an inexperienced JV wrestler

4. As an exception, nothing is wrong with entering a JV wrestler in a varsity tournament to fill a temporary team opening due to injury, illness, poor grades, or coaches or school discipline.

5. Nothing is wrong with entering a limited number of JV wrestler in a non-team scoring status to flesh out bracket openings (to minimize byes and as approved by the tournament director and/or as included in the tournament guidelines or rules). Have mixed feelings on including a varsity wrestler's team points earned by beating a non-scoring JV wrestler.

The only intent of my posts is to keep Kansas HS wrestling strong and growing. The way it is some times being manipulated concerns me!!

Nuff said by me on this topic!
Again. Amen! Shut up! You are a dumb ass that needs to enjoy retirement some where other then this forum. I have bitten my tongue for 24 hours. You are a rude, disrespectful piece of oh man trying not to get kicked off this forum.... go AWAY! Love, those that still have a dog in the fight.
WillyM
Seriously Stop - The tournament was a great tournament with good kids. Having SJA there did not cheapen anything. What cheapen the tournament is all your post on this forum. It makes me sad that you have so little respect for this sport and the children in it. Shame on you for ruining the accomplishment of all those kids and Lansing for winning the team award. You are just an angry bitter old man.
My kid was a soccer player and he also wrestled. Started wrestling late when a 9th grader. Did 2 summer sessions at the Dan Gable camp at Iowa U. Very tough little wrestler but did not make state--wrestled Jr and Sr years with a broken wrist wrapped from the knuckles to 6 inches up the wrist. Basically wrestled one handed but beat a whole bunch of wrestlers, lots of qualifers and some state placers. Eliminated twice at regionals in the back side semifinal. I put in my Friday and Saturdays sitting in the bleachers watching wrestling. Plus, he is the only kid I know with 8 varsity letters in only two sports. And, he played soccer in college (JR college), that's more college experience to date than your son(s) So, again Mr. Cokeley, kiss my P--------.

And MR. Silver Lake, get in line behind MR. Cokeley!

I am out of here!!
Good!
Mr. WillyM.
I have no dog in this fight, but I am all for getting kids both varsity and JV the best competition. If JV wrestlers dont seek out the tough guys, they will never be the tough guy. And to say that this team bringing these wrestlers to the tournament watered it down is absurd. From what I can tell from Will's post of the results they competed very well. 27 wins, to only 22 losses. If having these wrestlers coming to the tournament insulted you because you felt they were not good enough, then there is a problem, because they beat 27 other wrestlers that apparently are not good enough to be there from your perspective.
Mr. Mason - it's simple, you even stated it in your post about your son. The best way to improve is competition, bottom line. Whether that is at the varsity or junior varsity level, is up to the coach, end of story. Parents should be involved, and coaches should have an open door policy with athletes and parents, but the final decision always belongs to the coach. Many times the JV wrestler, is the second best wrestler in the state at that weight class, look into some of the better programs at any sport, and you will find a great JV or SCOUT squad. Willy even the BEST JR COLLEGE soccer programs take their JV to scrimmage D1 colleges. You may feel like you're the best parent in the history of the world, but it's obvious you don't understand anything about coaching. When it comes to keeping KS wrestling strong....stick to cards and coffee at the community center, leave the competition decisions to the coaches and ADs. Thank you.
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