Can a person be the High School coach and kids club coach at the same time?
They can not coach any high school kid or 8th grader who will be in their room the next year. They can coach 7th grade and down plus graduated seniors. At least that is my understanding.
Crap!!! Thanks Beeson. Got to change my strategy for the high school program...again..
You guys have it easy now! I was suspended for a week, missing a dual, for having attended, (sitting in the stands, ) a tournament after the HS season that a couple of my wrestlers were participating in. The tournament was in Douglas in the early 70's. We couldn't coach or as I found out even be in the same gym with any of our wrestlers after the season.
Dee Gard
A HS coach can coach a youth club, no rules against it.
KSHSAA prohibits a HS and/or JH coach to coach their team members inside the school year but outside the season of sport. So a HS/JH coach can't coach their HS/JH team members during the Fall or Spring when the team season is not in session.
In the summer, there are no restrictions about who you can coach and/or when.
I believe this is the rule.
Kit Harris, thank you Coach!! I appreciate the information sir.
I would double check all of this with KSHSAA. Whenever in doubt, always make the call to find out, is my recommendation. Let me know if what I said was correct, I am interested to know.
Thanks & good luck!
Yep, got an email in to Mark Lentz already. Will do and again thanks everyone for your help.
Jamy Dunbar
Osage City Wrestling Club
ok I have to chime in every time this topic comes up. this is the biggest travestiy KSHSAA perpetuates on HS coaches. They completely hamstring us in our attempt to develop our athletes especially in comparison to neighboring states. I hate this rule. Honestly I find it stupid for every sport not just the wrestling.
Question: what is the problem with working a couple of kids out that want to get better at wrestling in March April May? what is the purpose of the rule? seriously. someone enlighten me. and also lets share possible ways to get KSHSAA to let us develop or athletes during peak freestyle and greco season?
sorry to rant....this has been my big soapbox issue since I move here from Oklahoma and was appalled at what I could not do with my athletes.
That's easy Mahan. KSHSAA does not care about you or your athletes or any type of progress for the State of Kansas. I really have no idea who's best interest they are suppose to represent. I know they are partial to officials.
Exactly. I hope that poor official has recovered from that horrible life threatening event he had to experience. The goal should be to help young men learn and grow in life. KSHSAA and the ref, Barerra should be ashamed!!!! I know a young man in Silver Lake that is ashamed and humbled by his actions. It is a shame that actions like this are allowed to happen!
Alright gentlemen, I'll ask it. What happened with an official and a Silver Lake wrestler?
I must have missed something here. I just wanted to know if I could coach my wrestlers from the program I started when they get to the High School program I am trying to start when they get older while still running the club. Not sure where officiating and Silver Lake comes into play here but as Beeson said, Enlighten us boys, please!!! Hahaha....
Memorial Day to Labor Day, no restrictions. Chad you are correct on the 8th grade wrestler with HS/MS coach. That's why MS kids don't enter MS until after Tulsa Nationals or HS until after Cliff Keen. Always loopholes! USD coaches cannot coach any HS wrestler or MS wrestler (if their USD has wrestling)
after HS/MS is done until Memorial Day. It stops a dominate team good or bad???
Just another rant about how Kshsaa does not understand high level kids and their intensity and desire to win. ie training in the spring or summer. We had a young man bump an official and Barrera, (the official) asked KSHSAA to ban him for life. KSHSAA banned him for the rest of the season. (never is it ok to bump an official, that is not my rant)!!! The opposing coach said the boy was looking into the stands and probably did not even see the official.
The punishment does not fit the crime. I realize this is a stretch to put this on this thread. But I feel better now!!
Back in the day, I went to the executive board at KSHSAA twice to talk about coaching outside of the season. My point was always very simple, "as an educator, KSHSAA is asking me to tell a young man, no I cannot educate you, except for 3 months out of the year". It would be like asking a math teacher in the summer for help with math, and the answer would be, nope cant help you except during the school year. Educators should be able to educate when a student wants to learn! the rules have relaxed some since then, but they still have the same stance during the school year if you are a JH or HS coach. arghhhhhhh late night, cant sleep, ramblings by HL!!!
I don't know why this/these rules are in place, but I can say that back in the day, I would talk to coaches about the rules and ask about their AD's perception of the restrictions. A surprising number of coaches would not have any problem with the restrictions. They also griped about their regional assignments and usually failed to field a competitive team. In other words, they liked the tiny paycheck and title IMO.
Others would say that ADs didn't go strong for a change because other sports either had more restrictions or thought it might cut back on participation in other sports. I don't buy it, but that was what I heard. I do believe KSHSAA would vote for a change in the rule if a vast majority of ADs came to them with the request/support for such changes. I know KSHSAA gets a lot of grief, but I would encourage you to discuss all of these issues with your AD and ask what they are doing to initiate change. I'm guessing a wrestling based forum gets a lot of attention.
Just another rant about how Kshsaa does not understand high level kids and their intensity and desire to win. ie training in the spring or summer. We had a young man bump an official and Barrera, (the official) asked KSHSAA to ban him for life. KSHSAA banned him for the rest of the season. (never is it ok to bump an official, that is not my rant)!!! The opposing coach said the boy was looking into the stands and probably did not even see the official.
The punishment does not fit the crime. I realize this is a stretch to put this on this thread. But I feel better now!!
Back in the day, I went to the executive board at KSHSAA twice to talk about coaching outside of the season. My point was always very simple, "as an educator, KSHSAA is asking me to tell a young man, no I cannot educate you, except for 3 months out of the year". It would be like asking a math teacher in the summer for help with math, and the answer would be, nope cant help you except during the school year. Educators should be able to educate when a student wants to learn! the rules have relaxed some since then, but they still have the same stance during the school year if you are a JH or HS coach. arghhhhhhh late night, cant sleep, ramblings by HL!!!
It is "Chippy" Biera, Harry.

KSHSAA has shown us some true inconsistency again. Take away 25% of a youth's HS post season opportunity for losing control, a loss that occurred because said official did everything he could to pour gas on the fire instead of finding a way to diffuse the situation and find a way to cool off a young wrestler. It is odd to me that this official was "bumped" two weeks in row resulting in ejections. How many other officials have ejected wrestlers for bumping them this year?? Here is where KSHSAA drops the ball. Harry is right, the crime doesn't fit the punishment. An official was convicted of battering a youth ON THE MAT by a court of law. Yes, an official violently pushed down a 14U wrestler. KSHSAA conducted a special "hearing/vote" and made a decision to NOT punish this official. That's right, not for one weekend let alone a post season. This is an adult with many years of experience, who gets paid to officiate thus making him a professional. He gets ZERO punishment by KSHSAA while a kid who needs some help growing up gets 25% of his post season opportunities taken away. NO CONSISTENCY.
I don't know why this/these rules are in place, but I can say that back in the day, I would talk to coaches about the rules and ask about their AD's perception of the restrictions. A surprising number of coaches would not have any problem with the restrictions. They also griped about their regional assignments and usually failed to field a competitive team. In other words, they liked the tiny paycheck and title IMO.
Others would say that ADs didn't go strong for a change because other sports either had more restrictions or thought it might cut back on participation in other sports. I don't buy it, but that was what I heard. I do believe KSHSAA would vote for a change in the rule if a vast majority of ADs came to them with the request/support for such changes. I know KSHSAA gets a lot of grief, but I would encourage you to discuss all of these issues with your AD and ask what they are doing to initiate change. I'm guessing a wrestling based forum gets a lot of attention.
The NUMBER ONE rule change to improve KS HS wrestling is coach contact from the end of the season until Labor Day. Wrestling NEEDS the March, April, and May months when they don't have to compete with football coaches for time to work with the kids who WANT to get better.
I don't know why this/these rules are in place, but I can say that back in the day, I would talk to coaches about the rules and ask about their AD's perception of the restrictions. A surprising number of coaches would not have any problem with the restrictions. They also griped about their regional assignments and usually failed to field a competitive team. In other words, they liked the tiny paycheck and title IMO.
Others would say that ADs didn't go strong for a change because other sports either had more restrictions or thought it might cut back on participation in other sports. I don't buy it, but that was what I heard. I do believe KSHSAA would vote for a change in the rule if a vast majority of ADs came to them with the request/support for such changes. I know KSHSAA gets a lot of grief, but I would encourage you to discuss all of these issues with your AD and ask what they are doing to initiate change. I'm guessing a wrestling based forum gets a lot of attention.
The NUMBER ONE rule change to improve KS HS wrestling is coach contact from the end of the season until Labor Day. Wrestling NEEDS the March, April, and May months when they don't have to compete with football coaches for time to work with the kids who WANT to get better.
No argument from me. I've always thought it would be great to have the opportunity...especially for those towns that are not situated close to a bigger city with FS/GR teams like CK or East Kansas. I just think it's important to remember that KSHSAA is a member driven association. I wonder why the member schools don't push for more of these opportunities. This is like griping to your buddies about a legislative proposal but never voicing it to those in power (come on Will, that's two of your favorite subjects...have some fun with it!).
I was there....It was NOT an accident. There was way more to the situation even after that incident, and I thought the official handled the situation perfectly, and never raised his heart rate. With that said I hate to see the athlete lose the whole season!!
I always hate being the contrarian but if we changed the contact rules for coaches that would ultimately mean the same for all sports. If that were the case, then what would prevent the football coach from having spring drills at the same time you want the kids doing FS/GR? Then to take it a bit further, what would prevent the baseball coach from having indoor practices during folkstyle season? While the summer contact rules have been great for our program, I would bet there are other wrestling programs it has hurt. We have to keep in mind, that wrestling is 3rd to 4th best in the hearts and minds of parents, athletes and most importantly AD's. As it stands now we only have to compete with one sport for the kids during folkstyle season and I am fine with that. But if you add another ball driven sport to the competition I'm not sure wrestling would fare so well.
They expanded contact to football in the last few years. Football coaches get their hands on the kids the day after Memorial Day now. The ONLY time wrestling coaches get to have their kids without a conflict with football is during wrestling season.
They expanded contact to football in the last few years. Football coaches get their hands on the kids the day after Memorial Day now. The ONLY time wrestling coaches get to have their kids without a conflict with football is during wrestling season.
I know, they expanded the contact for football as a result of the summer contact rules for wrestling I believe. As I said, this has still been great for our wrestling program, primarily because we had coaches in both sports willing to work with each other. My guess is, in some schools that has not been the case and football has dominated the summer activities. There is already a strong desire for spring football amongst many fans. Seeing as how football carries the financial load for most other sports it wouldn't surprise me if a change in spring contact for wrestling was accompanied the same for football. Be careful what you wish for!
Summer football conditioning programs are taking the kids summers away from them. Really don't like that they start that crap in June and have them out there in the heat like that. Call it what want it is still a practice if it counts against you later for missing some of it.
I was there....It was NOT an accident. There was way more to the situation even after that incident, and I thought the official handled the situation perfectly, and never raised his heart rate. With that said I hate to see the athlete lose the whole season!!
The official requested a lifetime ban, while in a separate incident, KSHSAA ignored a referee shoving a 14 year old to the ground.
I was there....It was NOT an accident. There was way more to the situation even after that incident, and I thought the official handled the situation perfectly, and never raised his heart rate. With that said I hate to see the athlete lose the whole season!!
The official requested a lifetime ban, while KSHSAA ignored a referee shoving a 14 year old to the ground.
So KSHAA thought the lifetime ban was not warranted and did not fulfill the request. Why did the official shove the 14 year old to the ground? If he felt threatened and the 14 year old, who has been trained in fighting (wrestling), pushed or shoved first, I say shove him to the ground. If a 14 pushed me, I guarantee I would put him on the ground.
Frazel. I'm not sure what else you think happened. I was there too. I have been there every since too. I do not condone the behavior nor do or have i defended it but for you to get on here with your expert witness b.s. and say what was or wasn't intentional is a joke. And what happened next, get ready folks.... drum roll...... The athlete went home. He did not take a dumb bell to a toilet (happened same day at a different tourny) didn't punch anyone (happened same day at a different tourny) didn't leave in handcuffs (happened same day different tourny) didn't run into stands and shove spectator to the ground. Oh wait, that was a college basketball player. Older more mature and got a 3 game suspension. Look, I appreciate my sons supporters as well as Josh Biera detractors as I happen to be both. Mr. Biera did not handle the situation perfectly Frazel. In fact he did everything in his power to ensure this would happen, then reportedly a similar situation happened 1-2 week later? Where is the pattern? My son is taking his punishment like a man and is flattered that he is relevent in so many grown people's lives. He wishes you all well and looks forward to not being a topic next year except from Wyatt or Chief. Good day.
I was there....It was NOT an accident. There was way more to the situation even after that incident, and I thought the official handled the situation perfectly, and never raised his heart rate. With that said I hate to see the athlete lose the whole season!!
The official requested a lifetime ban, while KSHSAA ignored a referee shoving a 14 year old to the ground.
So KSHAA thought the lifetime ban was not warranted and did not fulfill the request. Why did the official shove the 14 year old to the ground? If he felt threatened and the 14 year old, who has been trained in fighting (wrestling), pushed or shoved first, I say shove him to the ground. If a 14 pushed me, I guarantee I would put him on the ground.
I edited my post and should have clarified that the official that pushed a kid down was a separate incident.
Chad old friend. Might want to stick around the Ark City area. You as an adult being paid to officiate a child's tourny do not have the authority to batter my child no matter what he or she does! You may not legally put your hands on my child in an aggressive Manor. Period. Actually no ref should ever touch a competitor other then to let them know the whistle has blown in a loud atmosphere. If a wrestler who is legally a child touches the ref for any reason while emotional they are done for the season? But if the ref does the same or worse and is arrested, charged and convicted in court and nothing? Still able to officiate? Can't wait to here the rebuttal for this post.
Thanks Chief. I do not know what happened in either incident. It sounds like the official in Mr. Cavanaugh's requested too strict of a punishment. KSHAA did not agree and enforced a lighter sentence. To the Credit of the Cavanaugh's they are taking their punishment and learning from the entire experience.
I would be interested in the whole story with the official pushing the 14 year old to the ground. Although I would assume that KSHAA heard the entire story and dealt with it as they saw fit.
Now as for a kid taking a dumb bell to the toilet...inexcusable for any reason. Punching an opponent, sounds like that wrestler should be done for the season also. Going away in Handcuffs, season needs to be over also.
Hearing all of this that happened in one weekend. What are you parents teaching your children? More importantly, coaches what are you teaching your wrestlers? KSHAA shouldn't have to deal with it. Coaches and Parents should be handling this crap.
Chad old friend. Might want to stick around the Ark City area. You as an adult being paid to officiate a child's tourny do not have the authority to batter my child no matter what he or she does! You may not legally put your hands on my child in an aggressive Manor. Period. Actually no ref should ever touch a competitor other then to let them know the whistle has blown in a loud atmosphere. If a wrestler who is legally a child touches the ref for any reason while emotional they are done for the season? But if the ref does the same or worse and is arrested, charged and convicted in court and nothing? Still able to officiate? Can't wait to here the rebuttal for this post.
Patrick, I don't want to fight with you over this. I just posted how well it seems that your family is handling this unfortunate situation. With that being said I will say this. If a 14 year old came up to me in a threatening manner and shoved me, spit on me, head butted me or assaulted me in any way. I have every right to legally protect myself, and that would include aggressively putting my hands on the child. I am not saying that I would beat the child to a pulp. I would protect myself and embarrass the child. Children, and we are talking about 14 year old children that are the same size and strength of adults need to know that in the real world there are real consequences for attacking someone. That usually includes taking a butt whooping if the child was ignorant to think nothing would happen because they are a minor. Just don't threaten or attack me and there is absolutely no issue.
Now as far as the official that shoved the child to the ground that Chief is talking about. I do not know what happened, but if he was arrested and convicted it sounds like KSHAA made a serious error in judgment.
Apparently these were two separate issues, one having nothing to do with the other.
Patrick, I feel bad for your family for what has happened, but I applaud you handling it in the manner in which you have. I hope only the best for you and yours in the future.
Chad
Sooo.... 2500+ views and 31 replies later the answer to my original question is...hahaha...
Jamy Dunbar
Osage City Wrestling Club
Yep. Got caught up in the moment. Adrenaline pumping. Don't even have a horse in that race other then to point out kshsaa inconsistencies. Good luck to you and Jake going forward too. Thank you.
Ha. Jamy, welcome to the dysfunctional club of having you thread hijacked. My apologies. Nice write up in this month's USA mag though. Congrats.
BTW....
Osage City Summer Tourney is projected for Mid to Early August time frame. Look for us on trackwrestling this Summer. Hope to see you there.
Hey this has now become free advertisement. I started this post, I can do what I want, haha.
No worries Patrick, your post made me almost drop my computer laughing. Thanks on the congrats on the USA Mag article. It really helped our club out.
And hey, we are all one big happy dysfunctional wrestling family here in Kansas, haha.
At what age are you to old to refer to Burger King as Booger King?
They expanded contact to football in the last few years. Football coaches get their hands on the kids the day after Memorial Day now. The ONLY time wrestling coaches get to have their kids without a conflict with football is during wrestling season.
I know, they expanded the contact for football as a result of the summer contact rules for wrestling I believe. As I said, this has still been great for our wrestling program, primarily because we had coaches in both sports willing to work with each other. My guess is, in some schools that has not been the case and football has dominated the summer activities. There is already a strong desire for spring football amongst many fans.
Seeing as how football carries the financial load for most other sports it wouldn't surprise me if a change in spring contact for wrestling was accompanied the same for football. Be careful what you wish for!
Sportsfan, I respectfully disagree with the highlighted statement. Football can't even pay for itself at the high school level. ANY HS that claims that football is a cash cow is either cooking the books, under insured or using equipment that is not current. Add it up: insurance, helmet, shoulder pads, pants for practice, pants for games, jerseys, coaches, football field capital cost, football field maintenance, utilities, travel costs, etc. Wrestling might be the least expensive sport for a school to offer.
Now as for a kid taking a dumb bell to the toilet...inexcusable for any reason. Punching an opponent, sounds like that wrestler should be done for the season also. Going away in Handcuffs, season needs to be over also.
Hearing all of this that happened in one weekend. What are you parents teaching your children? More importantly, coaches what are you teaching your wrestlers? KSHAA shouldn't have to deal with it. Coaches and Parents should be handling this crap.
You would be surprised at some of the PM's I have received regarding this post. Apparently two of the three wrestlers in question are done for the season. Restitution is being paid, and the schools have done all they can do to make examples of how not to behave. It is unfortunate for these wrestlers, but these are lesson much better learned now than later in life when it can have huge impacts on their lives.