The NCAA has done a wonderful job changing rules to make wrestling more fan friendly. Adding the 4 point nearfall, leaving the mat warranting a stalling call, opponent being given the option if a wrestler takes an injury timeout, just to name a few. What needs to happen for the High School Association to follow suit? Not that I have any faith that Kansas will do the right thing even if these changes are made. Hell, we can't even follow the rest of the country and get our weigh in's right.
Those rule changes would need to be approved by the NFHS. Kansas follows the NFHS rules on everything except the weight loss procedure and allowing home site weigh-ins.
I guess my point on falling behind would be, if Kansas cant even comply with simple weigh-in procedures how can we hope to adapt new rules. I would hope that the NFHS would be looking in to adopting some of the changes that the NCAA has added. These are positive changes for our sport.
Question : When was the last time a change in the COMPETITION/MATCH rules as adopted by the NFHS NOT adopted by Kansas?
Answer: In my lifetime, I remember none.
Home site weigh-ins were instituted years ago. . .in the early 90's out of concern for the wrestler's health and academics. Maybe it IS time to again look at them. My experience has been going to site weigh-ins just shifts the problems with weigh-ins by 12 hours. When it was last seriously discussed there was strong support statewide to retain them. Perhaps that has changed.
Weight loss: What Kansas developed is much easier than the NFHS descent plan to work with, for both the wrestlers who live with it and the coaches who must oversee it.
And, I will throw in another area I wish Kansas would deviate from the NFHS: allow a sixth match to be wrestled in a day's competition by wrestlers of KSHSAA Member Schools where the match is necessary to determine place points in a bracketed tournament.
The hour weigh in before and random drawing a weight would be good. I wish even with the method now that duals would all be random drawn so it isn't always coming down to Heavyweight. Hour before weigh-ins would also promote diet instead of trying to cut a lot of weight the morning of and then just packing it all back on. I would like to see what a kid weighs on a Tuesday-Saturday when they have a dual on a Thursday and tournament on Saturday to see the fluctuation.
I personally would love to see Kansas allow a team to go to 1 competition outside the 500 miles radius per year so Kansas guys can go see competition beyond just the nearby states.
The NCAA is doing a great job at looking at the sport of wrestling and trying to make positive changes for the sport. Whether it is the state association or the national association, Chad is right, the high school associations are happy with status quo. The powers to be need to take a good look at wrestling at the high school level and try to make positive changes for the good of the sport and the athletes. The NFHS needs to take a look at the out of bounds rules, injury time, stalling, scoring, and many other things that would make our sport more exciting and fan friendly. The KSHSAA needs to take a look at the weigh in process. Is Kansas really helping our kids by allowing them to weigh in before school so they can focus on school or are we shifting that to the day before? We live on the border and see the effects of the national weigh in. I see other states' wrestlers healthier and stronger and they are still losing weight but are forced to do it differently because of national rules. Are we really doing this because it is easier? I don't want extra work but if it is good for our sport and athletes then so be it. Other areas I would like them to review are allowing at least 1 pre-season or open tournament and not have to sit out of practice. Also, allowing high school coaches to coach their athletes freestyle/greco in the spring. It is much easier for athletes to find a freestyle/greco club in urban areas than rural areas. We have high school wrestlers that want to try freestyle/greco but do not have coaches with the experience or time to do it so they either travel or don't do it.
Again, CHAD IS RIGHT! Lets get the powers to be to take a good hard look at the sport of wrestling at the high school level and make some positive changes for our sport and our athletes.
Even our neighboring state Missouri is making some changes... Their rule formerly excluded any outside competition for any HS wrestlers once the MSHSAA first practice date hit. This meant they couldn't even skip out of practice to club wrestle in order to compete in some preseason events. The NEW rule... Any HS wrestler, with written approval from their AD, may compete in two outside of MSHSAA or high school sanctioned events during the season. An awesome step in the right direction!!
THINGS THAT KANSAS COULD CHANGE:
1. KSHSAA needs to permit HS coach contact to continue after state until the first day of school the following school year. Coach Buckbee is spot on as he indicated this in his post.
2. Deregulate Middle School wrestling!!! Who cares if a wrestler double dips and competes in club and school events?? It is middle school and in many places it is a glorified intramural setup!
3. I believe the KS weigh in system PROMOTES weight cutting. It gives far too much freedom to fudge and far too much time to recover! Why do we think we have it right Greg??
4. Make the travel distance restriction disappear!! It doesn't make common sense and it completely eliminates the opportunity for KS wrestlers to see the top shelf competition during the HS season.
5. Too many individual state tournaments!!! If we want dual state then have ONE individual state tournament and 4 or 5 (just for you Doug V) dual state events.
We could go on and on but really the #1 change that MUST be made to put Kansas athletes in a progressive position is to impeach, remove, fire, demote, terminate, or my favorite "CAN!" Gary Mussolini er I mean Musselman!
Question : When was the last time a change in the COMPETITION/MATCH rules as adopted by the NFHS NOT adopted by Kansas?
Answer: In my lifetime, I remember none.
Home site weigh-ins were instituted years ago. . .in the early 90's out of concern for the wrestler's health and academics. Maybe it IS time to again look at them. My experience has been going to site weigh-ins just shifts the problems with weigh-ins by 12 hours. When it was last seriously discussed there was strong support statewide to retain them. Perhaps that has changed.
Weight loss: What Kansas developed is much easier than the NFHS descent plan to work with, for both the wrestlers who live with it and the coaches who must oversee it.
I'd just like to sum up to make sure I understand.
Kansas follows ALL of the Rules...except the ones we don't like.
I wonder how a school would work if the students just followed the rules the WANTED to?
Question : When was the last time a change in the COMPETITION/MATCH rules as adopted by the NFHS NOT adopted by Kansas?
Answer: In my lifetime, I remember none.
Home site weigh-ins were instituted years ago. . .in the early 90's out of concern for the wrestler's health and academics. Maybe it IS time to again look at them. My experience has been going to site weigh-ins just shifts the problems with weigh-ins by 12 hours. When it was last seriously discussed there was strong support statewide to retain them. Perhaps that has changed.
Weight loss: What Kansas developed is much easier than the NFHS descent plan to work with, for both the wrestlers who live with it and the coaches who must oversee it.
I'd just like to sum up to make sure I understand.
Kansas follows ALL of the Rules...except the ones we don't like.
I wonder how a school would work if the students just followed the rules the WANTED to?
I'm having trouble figuring out how that one rule deviation from NFHS effects us negatively nationally. Yes, we don't get to vote on issues effecting the NFHS. I don't see that as holding us back.
Kansas follows ALL of the Rules...except the ones we don't like.
I think it's just the one we don't like. Not the ones. Or are there other rules we don't follow??
Question : When was the last time a change in the COMPETITION/MATCH rules as adopted by the NFHS NOT adopted by Kansas?
Answer: In my lifetime, I remember none.
Home site weigh-ins were instituted years ago. . .in the early 90's out of concern for the wrestler's health and academics. Maybe it IS time to again look at them. My experience has been going to site weigh-ins just shifts the problems with weigh-ins by 12 hours. When it was last seriously discussed there was strong support statewide to retain them. Perhaps that has changed.
Weight loss: What Kansas developed is much easier than the NFHS descent plan to work with, for both the wrestlers who live with it and the coaches who must oversee it.
I'd just like to sum up to make sure I understand.
Kansas follows ALL of the Rules...except the ones we don't like.
I wonder how a school would work if the students just followed the rules the WANTED to?
I'm having trouble figuring out how that one rule deviation from NFHS effects us negatively nationally. Yes, we don't get to vote on issues effecting the NFHS. I don't see that as holding us back.
If you have no vote then you have to follow what everyone else chooses. Followers are behind while leaders are in the front. Those schools that do not travel to States that follow the rule wouldn't understand. The NFHS has this rule in effect for a reason. Lazy Coaching should not be a reason to fall behind.
I want to make sure I understand. . .Leaders always follow all the rules? I will certainly remember that.
I think Chad is confused by the fact there are in effect two sets of rules. NFHS doesn't govern ALL the rules that KSHSAA has in place. States are given a lot of freedom with regard to travel, in season competition restrictions, etc. NFHS governs the rules on the mat and many surrounding the actual competitions but not regarding eligibility etc. For example... I believe Kansas may be the ONLY state that cooked up two rules for eligibility regarding age. First would be the cap that doesn't allow a student to turn 19 before August 1 and be eligible. But if you repeat the 7th or 8th grade for ANY REASON then you will forgo a year of HS eligibility. STUPID. You can file for a hardship on the 19 year restriction but none for the 7th or 8th grade repeat! Even more dumb, they didn't grandfather in the impacted group. Even more dumb, the appeal process is two boards occupied by lemmings! Nearly EVERY appeal heard under Gary M. has been unanimously upheld. No one thinks for themselves??? I digress... The point is KSHSAA is holding us back but not bc they follow the NFHSA rules.
Lets talk about the KSHSAA business model...Schools are going broke while they stuff their treasure chest.
I want to make sure I understand. . .Leaders always follow all the rules? I will certainly remember that.
I'm starting to wonder if you understand anything.
Love the points cokeley am Beeson are making. Kshsaa rules are hurting this sport in ks. An I feel you will continue to see tough born an bred ks kids leave are state seeking a bigger stage in surrounding states. It needs to start with addressing rules Beeson an cokeley pointed out above an ultimately getting a D1 program here in kansas.. we should keep them kids here for college.
We are big on following USAW type of rules and regulations, but for NFHS we go opposite way. USA must be Republican in Kansas and NFHS Democratic with the way we don't want to vote with that party.
I want to make sure I understand. . .Leaders always follow all the rules? I will certainly remember that.
I'm starting to wonder if you understand anything.
Obvious that you don't.
It will certainly be a glorious day when "the" rules are finally developed that EVERYONE agrees with, thinks are fair, "make sense" to all, etc.
College is a lot more fun as a fan to watch. 4 count on your back = 4points for the opponent, back off the mat is a warning, can't use the out of bounds line for defense because you can be pinned beyond that line. Its great to watch these guys perform takedowns on the way out of bounds while they mythlogelically keep one toe inside the circle just to score 2 points. Takedowns need to be worth 3, that would speed up the tempo! Can you imagine a takedown straight to the back and going up 7-0 in the first period? Huge, but better make the "Major Decision" at 10 instead of 8. Chad, Kansas will follow but not the year following rule changes at the NCAA level. Stay Healthy and Merry Christmas!
College is a lot more fun as a fan to watch. 4 count on your back = 4points for the opponent, back off the mat is a warning, can't use the out of bounds line for defense because you can be pinned beyond that line. Its great to watch these guys perform takedowns on the way out of bounds while they mythlogelically keep one toe inside the circle just to score 2 points. Takedowns need to be worth 3, that would speed up the tempo! Can you imagine a takedown straight to the back and going up 7-0 in the first period? Huge, but better make the "Major Decision" at 10 instead of 8. Chad, Kansas will follow but not the year following rule changes at the NCAA level. Stay Healthy and Merry Christmas!
I would only be for the first TD of the match being worth 3pts, if and only if it is scored in the first period. That way too you get people trying to be more agressive to get that "bonus takedown".
How does not following 1 rule affect us negatively? Let's see hummm does not getting a vote affect us negatively? would this be a here's your sign moment? BOOGER BOOGER BOOGER
By the way. My dog just farted and it stinks.
I have talked to several college wrestlers that said it took some getting used to, but love the weigh in rules that we are not following. Since you are not pulling weight, I guess it would not effect you in any way. Kansas encourages massive amounts of weight pulling, weigh in 10 hours before the dual, then just hydrate up and eat all you want. You have your strength back and can preform. How would these kids preform if they had to make weight 1 hour before a match? This is a more serious and legitimate problem than your Human Growth Hormone rant we get to read about every year.
Stick that in your nose and pick it.
I farted and blamed the dog. Is that worth 3 points?
uhm chad. i agree with 1 hour before match weigh in. always have. wow. didn't say anything about hgh. why such rage?
No rage buddy....just passionate. I still love you.
i also talked to a college coach that loved the fact that his state (new jersey) tested for HGH. it's really easy. see you randomly draw 1 wrestler from each quarter of the bracket. he said it sure leveled the playing field for everyone. as for the 1 hour before match weigh in. i totally support it. that's the way it used to be and that's the way it should be now. allowing 10 to 12 hours after weigh in only encourages much more weight cutting. to go even deeper. the way that the hydration test is performed is a joke. either have a medical professional do it or get rid of it. i've heard everything from teams allowing the heavyweight pee in the cup for everyone, to putting half water in the cups. it's all up to the integrity of the coaches and we all know that some human have no integrity. BOOGER BOOGER BOOGER
Weigh all the wrestlers in at 7am, 2 hours before tournament starts. You really think thats going to help in HS. These wrestlers know exactly where they need/want to be. They will cut the weight regardless. They may not be able to put on as much weight in that day but you are talking about weight loss. Chad I'm not sure why your are saying Kansas is the weight loss capita,l other than thats where you are from. Enlighten me, please. This sport expects some weight loss and it doesn't matter if they weigh in the night before or the morning of, they are still cutting weight. If you weigh in the morning of you just wrestle more around your weight. I'm not sure where J. Dale's dog farting or Cavanaugh's farting blaming it on his dog comes in play in this post but its a lot less stressful than cutting weight vs cutting the cheese! It sounds to political to me! agree to disagree.
HGH, drugs, alcohol needs to be taken care of at the club level, whether its HS or College. Until they reach a State or National tournament then everyone is tested. Sounds expensive doesn't it?
Danny,
I don't think that Kansas is the weight loss capital of the world, but I do think that they need to fall in line with national rules. I believe there is a huge difference between weighing in the night before (24 hours), the morning of (12 hours), and 1-2 hours before a match. How many times have you heard a coach, when talking about the state tournament, "if we can catch him on the Friday, we can beat him"? That statement in itself proves my point. If you catch a weight puller on Friday when they just made weight and still need to make weight, you have a better chance of beating them. If you wait till Saturday, after they have put on 15-20 pounds it gets a little harder. Why do you think there are so many upsets on day one instead of day two. Weights are equal on day one and they are not on day two.
I'll end with this thought, from you. "Make yourself better for the NEXT level." The next level follows the National Rule.
Having been on both sides of the line now, I love the national rules. Not only that, but we weigh in at the site of the tournament or the dual. No funny business, if coaches or administrators are not weighing in kids.
Wait I missed out on fart jokes? That stinks
But wait a minute Chad. I'm going to have to call BS on the "make yourself better for the next level" comment. I don't think the next level allows HGH or any other performance enhancing substances. So are we only following the rules we want to?
And Chase, yes missing out on fart jokes stinks.
One more post J Dale and you'll hit the famous 500 mark, but I think the days of dedicating post numbers on this board are long gone
Boogers and farts..... 500 posts baby
Boogers and farts..... 500 posts baby
Got to love old JD!
Yea Beeson I know its a struggle with all the different rules. I'm with you on just using the National rule from 6u to the end. Unfortunately not everyone thinks this way. Kansas is way behind and always will be. Suck it up and enjoy your last two years! Merry Christmas to you and your family!