15% losing records @ the State tourney. This is one of their arguments. " We just have better competition and a lot of the 4a teams wrestle a bunch of fish. If we wrestled 4a competition all the time you would see great records also." Well, maybe this is the year to prove it a lot of 654321a's teams have battled on the same mats this year, I wonder what the records will show?
who cares. if you can't place any any regional then you probably wouldn't place at state. most 6A teams don't or shouldn't use SQ as a seeding advantage anymore. as for whose is better 4a, 3a 5678a, blah blah...everyone has great individuals and everyone beats each other up. it's great to see mixes during the year in tourn all around the state. i know that we changed our schedule to include derby, fort scott and lincoln, nebraska to get out of the primarily 6a tourn. like olathe north and schlagle/wyandotte(used to be 6a). yes, 15% losing records at state is not what people want, but it's the way it is based on 6a teams going other places and getting beat or the region they live in.
i have seen plenty of "fish" at all levels.
maybe it's because most 6A teams grow up playing other sports more popular to their area than wrestling.
i know most of the KC area kids sports are basketball, football, soccer and baseball. Wrestling, unfortunatly is not a high priority unless a father wrestled.
There just isn't as many dominating wrestlers in 6A as there are in the lower classes.
i think vikes is right on this one.
it just depends where your from really..
if you come from a town where you dominated in basketball most likely the athletes are going to grow up to play basketball, i dont know why in your right mind you want to play basketball but thats there decisions.
I think that if there is less than 5 or less people in a bracket then round robin needs to be done...this is for all levels 6 and up go with a standard bracket (for all tournaments...not just 6a, 5a or whatever, if you have a low turnout at a weight....learn to round robin for the sake of competition.)
The reason 6a and 5a have 3 to 4 kids that have losing records at state is because of the 8 man regional brackets and lets face it most of the brackets are only 7 or 6 man and in some sad occasions a 5 man bracket. Thats why 5 and 6a see so many so called non deserving wrestlers make it to state. Come to a 4a regional with that 3-6 record and see how far that gets you in a 15-16 man bracket. I'm not saying the state tournaments in 5a and 6a aren't tough but half of your reional brackets are jokes.
I agree with the comment about our regionals being a joke with only 5 guys in it. But we do get some good wrestling in and yes there are the full brackets.If you look at the regional held at Bonner Springs you will see how some kids with losing records will make it to the state tournament. Half the teams there only have 5 wrestlers total.
All i have to say is if you think our 6A state qualifiers are jokes and our wrestling isn't as sound, then look at the most successful D1 college wrestlers right now.
- Scott Colemen(Manhattan, Iowa State): D1 national qualifer at 285lbs.
- Joe Johnston(SME, Iowa): Ranked in the 8th in the nation at 157lbs. Last yr pinned the defending national champion! D1 national qualifier.
- Zach Roberson(BVNW, Iowa State): Beaten too many all-americans to count. Midlands Champion. 2x All-American. 3x D1 national qualifier. Ranked in the top 3 in the nation at 133lbs.
They are all 6A wrestlers that went through "crappy" 6A regionals.
3 wrestlers is all you could come up with? I laugh at that, I could list a whole bunch of college wrestlers coming out of 4 & 321A but it would take an an entire page and its not worth the effort.
rocknraider:
You forgot about Tanner Gardner, Ian Bork, Josh Carroll, Justin Dyer, the McCormick brothers, and Jeremiah Beltran.
I Don't think anyone in here has said 6a & 5a is a joke when you get down to the top 6 wrestlers. We are saying the State bracket as a whole in 5a and 6a is no comparison to what 4321a is. A lot of 6a and 5a teams base there entire seasons on how many they took to state when 4a wrestlers that could have won a couple of matches have to sit at home and listen to their bullcrap.
Nigel, if you can make a list of good 4A and 321A wrestlers that are successful at the D1 level, go ahead and do it.......
it all depends on the size of the schools. lets say that we take the top 16 schools and put them in 6A and the next 16 and put them in 5A and so on, this arguement would be the opposite, becasue then you would have 8 man brackets in 4a and 321a.
it's going to be an argument for ages. as far as being tougher... of course it's tougher to be top 4 in 16 team brackets. no arguement there, but that really has no bering on the state placers.
look at what it takes to qualify for state in MO.
and like i said before, most coaches don't try to get kids seeded anymore just because they are a SQ. at least they shouldn't.
Again Nigel, quit sippin'.
P.S. This doesn't have anything to do with anything really, but I've been curious for a long time, what is your avatar?
shawn bunch was also a National championship qualifier last year.
Nigel, we are still waiting for that list.
here are some more 5-6A since we are on this subject....
Dusty Spaulding-Nebraska
Stewart Bogart-Oregon
Gabe Conaghan-Missouri
Bo Maynes-Oklahoma All American
Zack Allen-West Virginia
Jacob Klein-Nebraska
Joel Tapler-Oklahoma
As I said in my last post, College wrestlers not D1 wrestlers. But give me some time and I'll think about putting that list together for you.
Now as for the Avatar, that is the logo of Abilene High School
How many byes are there in 4a and 321a, and how many kids are only in the varsity spot because their team have no one else to wrestle that weight for them? It seems to me that in MOST instances a 6a or 5a regionals semis and finals are just as difficult as 4a and 321a, there's just one or two extra matches in between for the larger brackets of the smaller schools.
Nigel, the post that you said you could laugh at Specifically mentioned DI wrestlers. Dont bore us with a list of college (all divisions) wrestlers from 123-4A, we want to see a list of DI wrestlers from 123-4A.
Well your gonna get the list anyway
Division 1
Bryce Bahe (Goodland 4A) Minnesota State
Clint Freeman (Ellsworth – 321A) Missouri
Austin Devoe ( Columbus – 4A) Missouri
Matt Murray ( Colby – 4A) Nebraska
Others;
Bryce Abbey (Goodland 4A) University of Nebraska-Kearny
Trevor Charbonneau (Clay Center 4A) University of Nebraska-Kearny
Jon Haussermann (Norton 3A) University of Nebraska-Kearny
Brett Hille. (WaKeeny-Trego 3A) University of Nebraska-Kearny
Travis Martin (Ellsworth 3A) University of Nebraska-Kearny
Curtis Swager (Goodland 4A) University of Nebraska-Kearny
Dustin Tovar (Abilene 4A) University of Nebraska-Omaha
Christian Alt (Abilene 4A) University of Nebraska-Omaha
Chris Saferite (Augusta 4A) University Central Oklahoma
Side note: Your Precious 5A prodigy Tanner Gardner lost to Mr. Saferite here
November 17 2003 (nothing against you Tanner, cause I like you) Just proving a point
Shawn Silvis (Augusta 4A) (2X Division II Champ) University Central Oklahoma
Aaron Miester (Holton 4A) Labette
Matt Pyle (Sabetha 4A) Luthor College
Pat Casteel (Abilene 4A) Lindenwood
And this list goes on and on, but I got bored and decided to stop there.
Understand that going to a D1 school isn't neccasarily a measure of how good you are. There are plenty of wrestlers listed above that could have gone to D1 schools but they choose not to for 1 reason or another. I will find more when I have the time
Everyone has mistaken me. I listed only 3 6A guys because those 3(johnston, colemen and roberson) r having the most success. They as i said r all 6A guys and happen to be the Kansas wrestlers doing the best in D1 college wrestling. I couldve named off tons of 5A and 6A guys, but those other guys havent had the same success as the three mentioned at this time.
By the way, Bo Maynes was never a D1 all-american. He was ranked as high as 7th in the nation. That guy is a pimp by the way.
Originally posted by Nigel Isom:
Understand that going to a D1 school isn't neccasarily a measure of how good you are.
Just like graduating from a D-1 school isn't neccasarily a measure of your intelligence.
I find this argument tiresome. Every year it comes around, and every year no one's vote is swayed. But I will say that Manhattan has at least four possible state placers (as well as one who has already placed) on its junior varsity right now. I won't be as dense as to argue that our regionals are easier, but by the Big Dance it all evens out.
How about this: instead of 4a splitting from 5a and 6a for state, why don't we all just tell Nigel that 4a state will be held in Salina from this year on, so we can be left alone?
Prant you totally missed the point I was making with my comment, probably becuase you didn't read the whole comment. As I siad ther eare plenty of wrestlers who could wrestle at a D1 school but they CHOOSE to wrestler somewhere else. They do this for financial reasons, legacy reasons (like their parents might have gone to a school), But the most prominant reason is simply because of the school itself and the degrees offered. I think everyone can agree with me, not very many wrestlers go to college thinking afterward they will do nothing but international wrestling. That said the purpose of going to college is for the education. Take for example Tanner Gardner. He probably coudl have gone to any of the Big 12 schools wrestling programs, along with Minnesota and others. But he choose to go to Stanford. Not only is he getting to wrestle but a top flight education at a prestegious school. Another name that comes to mind is Shawn Silvis. He could have gone to a D1 school but he choose to go to UCO. I don't know what his motives were to do so but as you can see he's fairing just nicely. My point has simply been you can't really say that 1 class is tougher or better than another just based on how many D1 wrestlers they have.
Is Kyle Potter Wrestling JV now. If so is manhattan jv going to chase county this year on Febuary 14th. If so he may get to wrestle colby monnington of herington a 2A school that should be a good match
thier is some unbelievable talent at the d2 d3 and even juco level. ITs this simple most of them couldnt survive a d1 school simply because of the grades ive seen wrestlers from these small colleges tear the hell out of d1 talent.
Justin Dyer - Olathe South(Oklahoma) Not to bad
Josh Carroll - Olathe North(Appalachian State) - Not to bad
Eric Akin - Bishop Meige(Iowa State) - Not to Bad
Rick Burris - Emporia - SMSU _ Not to Bad
Tim & Colin McKee - Meige SMSU - Not to Bad
Nolan Cisper - STA Norwich (Military School) - Not to bad
At some of the larger programs in the state some kids can't even make the team just because of depth in the room. If Kansas were a state of 5 million or more people then there would be more 6A schools. I personally think there should only be 3 levels 6A, 5A, 4A, Then everybody would have
a 16 man or a subregional to go through. Maybe they should only take the top 2 kids and have wild cards. Who knows - this is the system we have - so work with it. If you have something to prove, you can wrestle kids wrestling - only 1 class. Or wrestle freestyle in the summer and try to become a 1 class state champ. You all have plenty of opportunities to prove you are the best at your weight. So let your actions speak and go wrestle the best. Goodluck 1A2A3A4A5A6A Wrestlers.
This topic was on 6a and Losing records at the Kansas State Tournament. Not a topic of which class who has the most DI atletes. Most everyone agrees that the majority of our DI athletes are from our bigger schools in Kansas. BUT, it was not the topic at hand. The topic was that on the average the big schools brackets aren't as deep as the smaller schools. It's rare to see a good wrestler in 5 or 6a not make it to state but in 4a it's very common because you have to put together 4-6 solid matches just to make to the show....
I can't really see the point in talking about 6A and losing records anymore. Its been mentioned, its been confirmed by several people from the 6A realm, what else is there to talk about? Excuses will be make, stories will be told, and in the end its going to continue to be this way for a long while.
If you want to make things more exclusive, go back to an 8 man state with Regionals, subs, then state. If was done that way for years and it really took something to be a state qualifier. They only placed 4 at state as well.
If that is too radical then you have what you have.
Twister
i dont want to jump back into this subject again. But id say that the overwhelming majority of D1 wrestlers are the best wrestlers in the country. And the fact that the dudes i mentioned earlier have excelled in the toughest division states that they are most likely the best in any division in college.
Its obvious that those D1 guys r the best (for the most part) because about 90% of all the best US freestyle and greco wrestlers have came out of D1 schools. Id say there is a higher percentage of D1 olympians, olympic medalists and champs than any other division in college.
Also they did have a way to prove if D2 and 3 guys were better than D1 guys. Years ago the NCAA had the D1 national championship that was open to D2 and 3 champs. Yes, its true that some D2-3 guys did well, but the vast majority did not win the title or place. And these D2-3 guys were representatives of their division and were the best of the best of their division. For the most part the D1 guys mauled them at the championships.
Dear Nigel:
When did Minnesota State-Mankato go Division I?
I believe they are NCAA Division II!
The Wrestling Mall Division II Rankings
NCAA Div. II
1/13/2004
# Team
1 North Dakota State
2 Central Oklahoma
3 Pittsburgh-Johnstown
4 Nebraska-Omaha
5 Western State
6 Ashland
7 Adams State
8 Findlay
9 North Carolina-Pembroke
10 Augustana (SD)
11 Nebraska-Kearney
12 Mercyhurst College
13 Minnesota State-Moorhead
14 Central Missouri State
15 Fort Hays
16 Gannon
17 Wisconsin-Parkside
18 Minnesota State-Mankato
19 Chadron State
20 San Francisco State
A wrestlers record at the end of the season is not always a good example of how good they are now, for as unable to wrestle my sophmore year so last year my record was not the greatest cuz I started out really weak. Now that I have gotten back into it and am 23-3.
Who am I, What's your point. Of course wrestlers change from year to year but if you have a 3-17 record going into State your probaly not going to win a match, well in 6a you might.
Spikegreely-
OUR STATE TOURNAMENT IS JUST AS TOUGH AS ANY OTHER CLASS. Saying what u said is ignorant and u obviously dont know too much about wrestling if make comments like that.
blake trullinger smnw- westpoint
4A has screamed this crap for years. Truth is if you cant place in 4A State you are probably not going to place at State in ANY other class.
Yes, in 4A it might mean wrestling more matches against better kids to get there, but you either have it or you dont when it comes to top 6 any class.
My guess is most of the whiners here are guys who didnt have it in 4A and are looking for excuses.
There is merit to almost every argument I have seen on this topic except that one class is better than the other.
Just noticing the discussion and wanted to put something into it, a few of you say that 4a is tougher than 6a when i have known quite a few 6a wrestlers who have placed at 6a state one year(not winning it), just too see on the other mats at the coliseum, kids winning the 5a and 4a state title that they had previously beaten earlier in the year.
didn't melvin douglas go to topeka seamen? which is 5a I think.
Actually, I think that when Melvin Douglas wrestled there wasnt even a 6A Class. He was a 4A guy with 5A being the largest class.
That is back when all classes had an 8 man Districts, an 8 man Regional and then an 8 man state bracket with only the top 4 placing in state.
All of these comments supporting the 6a Tourney is proving my point on what kind of tournament I think it is. My point again is: 4a as a whole tournament is tougher and more enjoyable to watch than 5a and 6a. Iam not saying that the best kids are from 4a because I believe the best wrestlers are from the bigger schools and I have never said anything different. Your argument to this is that we have more kids at division 1 and doing very well and you have proved that on this discussion by naming all of wrestlers currently and in the past that have wrestled at the bigger schools in KS. What your proving is that you have one or two top wrestlers here or there, maybe this year you will have 15 top wrestlers that are better than anyone in any class but that does not make for a good tourney. No wonder the Colliseum doesn't make any money. I
Melvin Douglas went to Highland Park... not sure of the classification size back then though.
What everyone has been trying to say that nobody in 4A wants to admit is that maybe you have the tougher regional tournements, but every day all season long in the practice room is tougher at 5A & 6A because you have 50 to 80 kids trying out for 14 positions.
Your tryouts are at the regional & state tourney, a lot of 6A kids are wrestling at that level all season long just to be on the team. Thats why you see more of them being successful at DI.
4As big bitch has always been that some good kids dont get to go to state in 4A while someone with a losing record goes to state in 6A.
Try being in 6A and not even getting to wrestle varsity because your behind a stud and if you were on any other team you'd detinitly qualify for state and probably even place. It happens alot in 6A.
Bernie112 that is also a valid point. Many 6A teams are deep w/ lots of kids in a room. Then again some 6A teams arent, but a good amount have a large # of kids. I can give a good example of this. Nick Clayton(SMS) his sophomore yr couldnt break the varsity lineup because he had Ali Sultani(4th placer, SQ) at 130lbs, Stewart Bogart(4X State finalist, 2x champ) at 135lbs and Jong Kim(3x SQ) at 140lbs. He took his chances against Kim and got beat like a little girl by Kim in the wrestle offs. Clayton eventually found a spot at 145lbs and qualified for state despite being really underweight. He beat some darn good guys that like Sean Curran and Ryan Sondereggor that yr even though he couldnt break our lineup in 3 different weights. 145 was probably the weight that was least inviting to his body weight and strength his soph yr. I know that plenty of other smaller programs could be having this problem, but this is just an example of how good kids on 6A teams can get screwed.
Spikegreely-
The 5A and 6A tourney's competition and level of talent is sound and there is nothing wrong with it. What screws over the Colliseum is the terrible hospitality room, the disgruntled security staff, the overworked rude table workers, the crowded weigh ins, the horrendous facilities(bathrooms, drinking fountains, etc..) and how the finals r structured so u have to watch 3 state finals matches at one time. But like i said, there is nothing lacking in the excitement and barnburning intensity of the 5A and 6A wrestling talent.
Bernie112, you probably have a similar story about never seeing a varsity season. Maybe you could share it with us. And the comment about 50-80 kids going out for wrestling is ludacris. The only 6a school that I know of that even comes close to that number is GC. Try and name 5 schools that can put out that type of numbers year in and year out, you can't because there is hardly 5 schools in the entire state that can average an output of those type of numbers. No one is doubting that 6a is nails. Is 6a the best year in and year out? That is debatable
we have about 50+ kids come out each year, granted that the majority have never wrestled before, but they all want to be on varsity by the time they are seniors, which makes for some intense practices. I know we have two guys that lettered their sophmore year, and now seniors, and are on jv.
"What everyone has been trying to say that nobody in 4A wants to admit is that maybe you have the tougher regional tournements" (Maybe)
Bernie112 can't even admit that the smaller schools have tougher Regionals, no wonder he exagerates about the practices. I help coach at a competitive 6a school and is no different, it just takes more coaches to teach the rookies.
I would guess that a majority of the 6A schools in Johnson County have between 50 and 80 kids come out for wrestling almost every year.
I know that Olathe South has had more than 70 show up every year for the past 5 years. They had to expand the practice room because of it. They were using 2 seperate rooms for practice until the remodel.
What it all breaks down to is, most 5a and 6a teams are in big cities where wrestling isn't as popular, because all the media coverage goes to football,basketball, and baseball. I know that in Kansas City that "metro sports" the big supplier of high school sports hardly ever show wrestling(maybe once in a blue moon and the metro classic) where as in little towns where all these 321a schools are at there might not even be a local television station in the area that covers high school sports, so no sports get hyped up and everybody is willing to participate in all sports.
So whats the big deal if you have a tougher regional? If you deserve to go to state in 4a, then you will go, unless you choke. There are the occasional regionals where more than the 4 who make it are truely good enough to go to state, but that's in ALL classes. I see just as much talent, if not more, in 6a and 5a in any given year as I do 4a and 321a.
Kdogg way to come in and only read the last couple of post before saying something ignorant.
I'm the ignorant one? If you would read all the posts, you would see I've posted before on this subject.
Kdogg, so what your saying is, you have read all of the post here and this is what you had to say. You would have been better off reading the last couple of post.
Dude, your not making any sense.
If you think it's weak move to the city so you can go to state with all the sissy boys...
SMS has for the past 3 yrs at least had 60+ kids. bvnw was freaking packed the time i visited too. they had to have at least 60 kids too.
First, I'll address JJETC: Yes, I do have a story about never seeing a varsity season.
My Junior year, I was Varsity and got 3rd in state ( many years ago). The kid who was at my weight and ended up at jv all year was good enough to have placed at state and I know because I wrestled him every day at practice, all year.
My Senior year I moved up a weight class and the kid that was jv behind me the year before ended up getting 4th in state that year.
I got 2nd in state my senior year and once again the kid who was behind me also was good enough to have placed at state, but didnt even get the chance at varsity because he was behind me and it was his senior year also.
Why do I give a *$#@, because they were both good kids, they were both my friends and they both helped me become a better wrestler.
As for the 50 to 80 kids coming out each year being "Ludacris" as you put it. I dont know where you get your info on that, but you are absolutly wrong. Other people have already given examples right here on this thread and if you dont believe me or any of them then just call some of the coaches of the 6A schools.
Now for Spikegreeley. You said in your post that you help Coach at a competitive 6A school. It also says your from South East Kansas. I'm confused, I had no idea that there was a 6A school in South East Kansas. Wherever you coach, how many kids are on the team?
As far as the MAYBE thing, your really grasping for something to fight about there. If you have read all of the post, then you would realize that I have admitted and acknowledged in that post and previous ones that 4A has tougher Regionals.
Read that sentence again, with alittle less hate in your heart and realize that maybe and but in the same sentence usually means yes, but.
As far as exagerating the practices your either gona believe me or not, but its the truth, not an exageration.
End result of all this is 4A has tougher Regionals, but top 6 in any class match up pretty well. 4A more competition at Regionals to get to state, 6A more competition in the practice room to get there. SO WHAT DID YOU HOPE TO PROVE BY STARTING THIS THREAD?
Amen, Bernie 112. Amen.
Last year Bubba Schoenfeld (and his chin cup) went undefeated until his last tournament of the year, excluding all the matches he lost to his own teammate, Aaron Bingham. Bubba pinned Larry Perez, and was up 6-0 on Livengood (both state placers, I believe) until he got caught and pinned. Bubba is still one of the top six wrestlers in the state, yet because Bingham is fat, he is still dominating on the JV level.
Kyle Potter lost his wrestle off last week and is now junior varsity (for the time being). That's a state placer, who I guarantee could make it through your 4a regional, who is junior varsity.
Mil Phaneul is undefeated on varsity this year. He is above Garen Stacey, a two time qualifier who defeated a defending state champ at state last year, on the depth chart. Why haven't you heard of him? Because he's junior varsity at this current juncture to A.D. Mayes, who is 18-3 in his third year of wrestling. A.D., Phil, or Garen could all place at your regionals and go to state.
Spikegreely, you and your hateful posts, are officially fired.
Thanks Prant.
JJETC & spikegreeley:
How many guys on your team are jv and have beat state placers and how many previous varsity guys have placed in state but are now on jv?
Its no big deal, just part of being 6A.
Just like tougher Regionals in 4A.
So get over it and realize it all comes out in the wash.
Oh one more thing--
At the Beloit Invite last weekend, Jacob Wagner beat Geske of Abilene. I believe Geske is a 4a state champ. He then went on to lose (questionably...) to the Hoxie 125 (who I believe is a state finalist) in the finals.
Up until last Friday, Wagner had been JV. Now he's a 4a state champ...but he's from 6a, so he probably couldn't have made it through the 321a or 4a regionals.
*Swish.*
*Count it.*
*Prant: 1 million billion, Spike: 0*
Prant you must have been praying to the wrestling god’s Super Bubba returns!
And he will avenge his second place finish at JC today. We will see how tough 119 really is with a lowly JV kid winning it… Also that’s Andrew Wagner, Jacob hasn’t wrestled for a couple of years. Plus we got eight graders that could place at 4a State.
*Swish.*
*Count it.*
*Plus Two*
Red
Geske is not a state champ. Do some research before you make a comment like that. I will agree that there are some good JV kids at the 5a and 6a level that sometimes get stuck behind stud wrestlers.
Prant Garker-
Who did Kyle Potter lose to in the wrestle offs and what was the score. That is shocking that he is on JV!
I will start this post with a disclaimer:
**************************************************
In no way is this post an indication as to which class is the toughest. It is simply a situation that I have personnally seen.
*************************************************
There are 3-2-1A schools who have the same depth as the 6A schools that you are discussing. Since I am old and senile, I don't remeber names, or exact years but these are true stories.
Wakeeney (Trego County) had a junior win state at Heavyweight. The next year a junior beat out the returning state champ, and won state the next 2 years. This was before 215 was a weight class so the JV former State Champ would have had to lose about 60-70 pounds to wrestle the next class down.
(If anyone out there knows the names of these individuals I would appreciate it).
Leoti also had a returning placer on JV in 1194-95 season (the year they jacked the weights all up). He couldn't find a spot because the weights were distributed so strangely.
Norton- This year. Returning state champ (Madden-112) goes down with a knee injury. His backup wins the Norton Tourney and performed very well at Newton. Norton's JV 171 pounder also placed at Newton.
There is depth at every class. There are also schools in every class with 0 depth. That said, it stands to reason that a 16 man bracket is tougher to make it through than an 8 man bracket. I still believe the top 6 wrestlers in each weight class are very equitable. The toughness varies from class to class depending on the year(I have now been associated with teams in each division: 6A, 5A, 4A, & 3-2-1A).
Well put coachtwink but I think we should all resolve the argument and appreciate that fact that we aren't playing basketball
Originally posted by coachtwink:
Leoti also had a returning placer on JV in 1194-95 season (the year they jacked the weights all up). He couldn't find a spot because the weights were distributed so strangely.
1194-95? Holy smokes, that has to go down in history as the first state placer in the history of the universe. Who did he wrestle against, seeing as there were no other schools on the continent? Seeing how there would be so little competition at such an early date, doesn't that kind of take away the impressivness of being a state placer?