Just a little hot news from the some of the metro big school leagues. If the new proposals go through and they cut 300 bucks per kid from the budgets athletics will be a thing of the past in the metro (Kansas City) Everyone else will be in the same bind. All of you better raise cane with the congress or athletics is going to go out the door. Believe it!!! It is about to happen. There are serious concerns about being able to open the doors of some districts if the present proposal goes through.
I am not talking about just wrestling here. I am talking about every single sport. It is being discussed and they have no choice. A cut of that magnitude will be dissastrous for public education. It is being discussed this week here in Kansas City and they have no choice if it goes through. We need a call to arms here people or last years state tourney is the last one you will see like that for many years.
In a class that I am taking the professor said that Kansas is expecting a 700 million dollar short fall in tax revenue this year. One thing he mentioned was extra curricular activities becoming pay to play. Funding for schools is only going to get worse over the years.
Walter;
He can say whatever he wants but I am telling you that as of yesterday the discussion is ongoing that athletics are going to be done away with completely in the Kansas City Kansas School district and several others around the state. All of us better ask where, all of the sudden, 700 million dollars went and we better get after our congressmen. No time for debate, they are going to do something in the next three weeks. If we don't want to see athletics go by the wayside, we better make our thoughts heard
Don't get carried away here. Athletics is not a large percent of the schools budget, very miniscule(1.3%). Doing away with athletics does not improve a schools position with a budget. They may make cuts, and trim budgets, but doing away with all extra curricular activities is neither beneficial for budgets or for kids. There is very little improvement in a schools districts budget situation. I read the paper this morning, and I feel that over the next few weeks we will see many more articles mentioning cutting this program or that program. I honestly think that we will have to pay more taxes and the schools will lose instructors.
We all better wake up and if you don't think athletics and extra curruiclums are the first to go don't kid yourself!!Every school and teacher in the state of kansas are in trouble right now if they pass what they are talking about.We all need to write and ask why education is taking this kind of hit.
Dear Mr.Lane
I hope most of the people in Kansas don't take your advice and do get carried away.Our education program is in trouble in every town and city in the state of kansas right now if they pass this.Don't get carried away..tell that to the teachers that are going to lose their jobs and the students that will lose their programs they love, be it athletics,the liberal arts etc....some small communitys can not possibly make up the money that they will lose by incresing taxes.
By no means would I want to see any extracurriclar programs cut and I don't claim to be knowledgable on this topic. It would be by far preferable to keep the athletic programs, but would there be some good in not having to deal with some of the restrictive KSHSAA regulations as far as wrestling is concerned? Wouldn't it be nice to be able to get unlimited mat time like our younger kids can? We all know how dedicated wrestling parents are and always willing to do fundraisers and pay their own child's expenses. It would be nice for high schoolers to be able to participate in Tulsa Nationals and the regular USAWKS season. Could booster clubs and parent involvement finance this? I know this is not applicable to every sport, but I wanted to throw it out if this does become an issue we have to deal with.
Brent;
We better get completely carried away. I know for a fact that the die is cast on sports being completely cut in KCK if that proposal goes thru. This is Randy Westfahl in Olathe here. My number is in the book. Call me and I will tell you what I know. This is no time to be cautious here. I am not blaming one school official here it is totally the fault of the Kansas Legislature. They will have absolutely no choice in this deal if it goes thru and the plans are already in the works to drop the hammer on all sports, band, forensics and extra-curriculars. The layoffs will be staggering. None of this is a guess on my part. They will have no choice our shortfalls will amaze you if the $300 a kid cut goes thru. Call me, we need to act and we certainly don't want to be cautious. It is time to push the button.
I tend to agree with Brent on this one, its not really something to get carried away with. You know about 5 years ago our budget here in Abilene was way short, im talking about 300,000 short and they were talking about making athletes pay to play and all this other crap. But as it turned out they came away just fine and nobody was hurt. THe problem lies in the fact that the community doesn't want to support its schools, thats what it really comes down to. I know in Chapman thier "community" just voed to reject a local option budget that would have gave its board at least enough money to continue operating the way it had been, but of course the chapman members didn't want to pay. See to me that is just crap, I hear they could be in serious trouble and may have to shut another school down and fire 4 or 5 teachers but that of course is just rumors. Personally I don't think thats parents pay enough to send their children to school anyway. In Abilene I believe the tuituion for the whole year is like $65 or something like that. currently Abilene High School has like 400 students so you multiply that and you get something like $26,000 and the kid get to go to school all year. And the state has to fork over the entire rest of the budget. I turly believe in my heart that if our school district was suffering from the same problems others are that our community would pass a LOB, but who knows. THe point is that if this is really a concern for you and you think that a school is going to start cutting out athletics before a number of other things you are either crazy, or you live in a crappy school district and I suggest you move.
Nigel,no offense meant here but it is more serious than you think,all schools are talking about what this means to the state of kansas and it's education if this bill passes.Some towns already have LOB's and are taxed out.Education should be at the top of the list in prioritys in the state and government of Kansas,we the tax payers pay alot of money in taxes already,and just what about that lottery money that was supposed to go for education,it's called highway money now.It's going to be devestating to alot of communitys and schools if this passes,I would bet Abilene would also be effected,I cannot think of any town that would not be affected,you should hear how many teachers jobs in Hays are going to be affected if this passes,and it's a growing college city.It's not a thing to be cautious about right now.
Nigel;
Time to think globally my man. The cut they are talking about is unprecedented in the history of the state of Kansas. If it passes there will be a lot of school districts and I mean 70 to 80 percent of the districts in the state of Kansas that will have a difficult time simply meeting basic needs. I am talking about paying the light bills here and heating their schools. You can do the math here for yourself and math in Ablilene is pretty much the same as it is here in Kansas City. Just multiply 300 bucks times every single kid in your school district and that is how much in the hole compared to this year you are about to be. It is a big world out here and Abilene, while it is a wonderful place, is not the center of the Universe. If they have a choice, and they will have to make one be sure of this, between meeting the basic educational needs of the students (and I mean just barely) and having athletic programs, enough teachers, band programs, yearbooks, and all the other things that are not directly related to readin' writin' and rithmetic, what do you think they will have to do. WAKE UP NIGEL!! I bet if a metor hits Kansas, Ablilene will be unaffected by it, I am sure they have a plan in place. You better try to get some of those good folks out there to call their congressmen or we are going to have a mess on our hands. By the way do me a favor and call Paul Dennis and tell him Randy Westfahl said hi will you.
I strongly agree that action is needed now. Every school in the state of Kansas will be hit no matter where they are located. The biggest problem I see is how our legistrators are spending the money in the first place. Case in point is here in Topeka. They have been repairing highway 75 north of interstate 70 and instead of getting a company that is located in Kansas to do the work and to keep the money in the state, they have a company out of Minnesota doing the work. Sounds strange we are falling short in taxes but it's ok to have our taxes pay a company and individuals from another state so they can go back home and buy goods which in turn have taxes in their home state. Whoever thinks that action is not needed must be living in a dream world. Everybody needs to take action now or our kids are going to suffer.
I think you are all correct. I serve on my schools board of education. I have followed the budget situation closely for some time. I genuinely believe and hope that the legislature will eventually not take a radical stance on cutting the funding of education. That said, the squeaky wheel does get the grease. This is true at the local level as well. Even if the cuts are not severe, school districts will still have to find places to tighten up. There is a certain group of people who believe atheletics are not important elements of a well rounded learning experience, and would be quick to cut them unless your opinion gets heard. Panic? no! However, it would be very prudent to let your legislator know what you think of funding education adequately. I believe you should also let your local board know your opinion on the benefits of inter-scholastic competition, and encourage them to look at all alternatives to cutting them........In short, I would not panic, but it is foolish to not take a pro-active interest.
Nigel
The very reason you state to not get excited is the most compelling reason to get excited. Just as Abilene already looked at cuts in these programs and found ways around it, most districts, especially rural areas with declining enrollment have already made several rounds of cuts in recent years. In essence the easy cuts and waste have already been made, which makes it more likely that programs for kids (including atheletics) will get cut next time. Don't fool yourself!!!
Randy Westfahl is very much correct though with what is happening. with the budget cuts, there are already certain schools that have adopted a 'pay-to-play' status... Lansing HS, and Lawrence Free State (or maybe it is just Lawrence High) have already adopted the 'pay-to-play' set up at their schools. with the budget cuts, athletic programs are being targeted since the education system is more focussed on classroom education and less on the education of the student-athlete.
do not worry though, the sports aren't going to be cut completely. it just means that there are some alterations that will/may be made to the set ups.
this could be a good provision, where more dedicated kids will be out for the seasons. BUT it also means that kids who have never wrestled prior to high school who have potential to be talented wrestlers may never give it a shot since they have to pay to wrestle. we will see what happens, but be prepared for changes in ALL SPORTS in the near future until the economy manages to become more stable.
Well I guess this is everyone against me! Eitherway just to clear a few things up, now I remember hearing something about the state cutting out the lotorry becuase of a lot of corruption, im not sure if any of that is true, but in any case there goes that money, secondly and most importantly would it really be that badto have to pay to play sports? I know I would mind having a job to make a few bucks so I could play sports, and that is the real question to you all, Are you ready to have to pay to play sports, or are you going to start arguing with me about how it is your god given right to play sports for free in high school? The real point comes here. Abilene like other schools will be affected by this budget cut but unlike other schools we won't just sit on our butts and say "well this isn't fair" I believe that someone had a point here earlier Mr. Westfahl instead of griping and complianing about it happening contact your congressman he's the one thats letting it happen. But as for me im not going to do anything about it becuase im not concerned, for the plain reason that its not like the state is going to let the education program just go to crap.
I am definitely not in favor of pay to play. Believe it or not there still are kids who come from poor families. When I was in school, I worked for my books and clothes and spending money. I don't know that I would have been able to participate if it had been pay to play. Certainly, there are some districts that kids would not be able to afford this. I am reminded of a coach telling me when he taught at Topeka High several years ago, he decided it would be nice to have all the kids wear slacks and ties. They had the wrestle offs and one very good black kid won the wrestle off. The day before the match he went to the coach and said he would not be able to wrestle. The reason was the kid did not have slacks and a tie or the money to buy them. The slacks and tie policy ended that day!
Just as importantly, maybe not so much in wrestling, but in other sports if it cost 50.00 to play why not just buy the team new uniforms that should guarantee that your son got the starting quarterback job.
Nigel;
My thought here is to get people to call their congressmen. You obviously do not understand or care about what I am saying so feel free to ignore it as you wish. I coached fourteen years at Schlagle and in that time had some marvelous kids who turned out to be wonderful productive human beings much because of the opportunities they got from sports. If they would have had to pay to play, they wouldnt have been able to afford anything. We have over 20,000 kids in our school district here and many of them are very poor. I was simply hoping to find some concerned wrestling people out there who might call or write their congressmen or women. Hey if you don't think this has anything to do with your world thats fine. Pretend that I am not talking to you here thats ok.
you have to search for something positive in 'pay to play' though. for instance, if a kid is investing their (parents) money into their sports-education, they are more likely to be dedicated student-athletes... it seems, especially in wrestling where the demands on the student athlete are so high, that kids find it easy to just quit when things get tough.
also, team fund raisers are a great way to have the kids really come together prior to the season and built the family-like unit even before the kids hit the mats.
personally, i do not wish to see kids having to 'pay to play', especially since i coach on the side of a school district where there are many families that have financial problems. BUT when it comes, and it looks as though it will, i am at least going to make the best of a bad situatinon and not allow it to break down the unity of the program.
I have only 1 question.... Why are the polititions just now making cuts? why couldnt' they have done it when the first were elected to the house?
it has nothing to do with the poloticians. it isn't like they want to go out and make decisions that are going to be unpopular. it is more to do with the state of the entire united states economy right now.
if you haven't been aware, every state institution of higher learning nationwide is hiking thier tuitions right now. there is just less money to be giving out. when the money starts to go, so do the programs which are of less interest to the overall welfare of the state. and as much as all of us here would like to think that sports (especially wrestling) shouldn't be cut, there are many more people who do not share similar interests as us.
either way, some things have to go. politicianse aren't putting targets on athletes, they are just going to be cutting the amount of money they are going to be giving to your school district. it is your district that is trying to come up with ways to be able to fund education programs with the shortage of money that they are getting. with that, you have to understand that what happens in the classroom is more important than what is happening athletically. until our economy becomes stable once again, you are just going to have to deal with the potential for cuts in certain programs.
but overall, as a nation we have become spoiled by our education system into thinking that everything that we have is a god given right. not so. we should be thankful that there are even athletic programs in our schools to begin with.
for anyone that cares, i type too fast and there is no spell check here to make me look smarter. sorry for all the horrible spelling problems... bah.
This is a tough one. My dad told me when i was young, If you talk politics or religion you'll never be right. When we let the government run things it always turns out to be very ineffcient. when we voted on the lottery a few years back it was to be the saviour of the school system. Now we have someone makeing a 6 digit salery and the schools get the crums. How about the Kshsaa we have a guy with a 6 digit salery he has probably 5 or 6 assistants that make 6 digits they all have 1 or 2 secratarys that make 5 digits. All to hand out $500.00 worth of trophys a year.
Just a follow up on my previous post. When the buget cuts come the first thing they will cut is the sports. So now we have no sports. But we will still have the kshsaa to over see them????????????
It is simple politics, make no mistake about it. Many politicians feel it would be very unpopular to have to restore the tax cuts that have been made in education since 1992. In 1992 the local tax levy statewide for education which went to Topeka and then came back was 35 mills. Now it is 20 mills. I too like lower taxes and vote for them when possible and prudent. Many politicians believe it would cost them votes if they voted to meet the short fall by higher taxes. What all of us should let them know is that given the choice of a "little" more tax for "education" or shitting on school kids, we will pay the tax.
Hey Nigel,
I wish that LOB would have passed in Chapman, now they have to look at cutting some programs, big talk on letting more teachers go, dropping music programs, wrestling may end up being scrapped as well, but only time will tell.
Once again let me clarify. I said that This issue doesn't really affect me becuase I am no longer in High School. I am fortuntate enough to know how our school district works, and I know that when/if cuts are to be made I believe wrestling will be one of the last to go becuase of the success of our program, thanks to Mr. Christner's hard work. Furthermore, on the pay-to-play issue. I certainly don't come from a rich family but my parents made a decent living, I would say we were an average income family. But I sill had a job 3 years of high school. The problem is that everyone thinks that they "deserve" things. If you think that you "derserve" to play sports for free you are quite wrong, surly Mr. Westfahl you must agree that playing sports for free in high school is a privlage? And if a school district can't afford to let people play for free then they have to pay, Personally I think kids should get the opportunity to play sports for free but sometimes it is just not cost effective. My advice to everyone who is faced with this situation is to "bite the bullet" for now get a small part time job (rake leaves, mow lawns, whatever...) make your $50 and be happy that your school even still offers sports. And one more point that hovers above all else and this is what my mother always told me "You are not in school to play sports, you are there to learn"
You are right you are in school to learn,however sports taught my kids things they never could of learned in the classroom,and today they are better individuals because of the sports,it affects them in all areas of their lives that they did not even comprehend at the time.To have to pay for sports would leave in alot of areas alot of kids not participating quite simply because their families could not afford it.At least where My kids went to school at we the parents still had to pay for alot of things,shoes,warm up gear,not to mention raising money for team meals etc...we still had to put out some money to let them play.Some rurual areas have a hard time with numbers for their sports anyway,to make the kids pay to play would surely result in a loss of competition for them.Education should be at the top of the list in Kansas and should be the last thing our congressman should consider cutting.
This is the first time I have heard anything about this but apparently everyone else has and it honestly is concerning me. I am a high school student and am very much invovled in all sports and honesltly I don't know what I would do with all my time if i wasn't always at practice, I can honestly say sports is a huge part of the reason I am who I am today, it has given me a reason to keep my grades up and strive to succede in school, and I don't think they should have the right to take that away from anyone, sports idenifies me and my school work, and cutting all sports from the program is sure not going to improve the education system, because I know many kids that use the sport they love as a motivator. I will be sure to have my voice heard if this cut goes through along with all my sport friends..Thanks to everyone for making this known and please contact me if anymore goes down
Nigel I must not be able to covey to you what is happening and I don't want the crux of this issue to be avoided here and diverted into a pay for play dispute. Pay for Play is not going to be on the table if this issue goes thru. Our budget cuts up here, if the legislators get their way could amount to from 3 to 5 million dollars. Wichita will be in the same boat here as will Shawnee Mission and many of the rest of the large districts. Pay for Play is not on the table here. They will have to cut whole high schools if this thing floats. We arent talking about a shortfall that 50 or sixty bucks a wrestler could even begin to affect. Athletics, facilities, staffing, all will dissapear. I know it is popular to argue points here but I hope this "entertainment" does not cloud the potential problems a funding shortfall of this magnitude poses. There will simply be no programs to pay to play in. They are debating it today in Topeka.
How about this: tonight I asked my instructor if budget cuts at the state level could eliminate extra curricurlar activities next year. His reply. YES! Not maybe but YES! After school activities at most large school districts is about 2-3% of the total budget. He said his district, which is a large one, will face closing it's doors in the next three years if things stay the way they are right now. He got a call from a House member today. The State House member wanted to know if ticket sales from athletic events completely funded the athletic department. Of course the answer is no. It is not hard to find statistics that show students involved in after school activities are much more likely to be successful after high school than those who are not involved in such activities. There are 3 proposals out there right now. One from Graves, one from the Senate, and one from the House. I would like to know which one is the best. The state congress usually deals with school finance at the end of April.
http://www.accesskansas.org/government/state-representatives.html
Not trying to start a panic. I just had information and thought I would share it.
In our small little district, even if we get a $20.00 per student raise (which is the best proposal even mentioned as opposed to the cuts) we will still lose $65,000.00 state aid due to declining enrollment. We already know we will have to pay $40,000.00 more for health insurance. That is $105,000.00 that will have to be cut from other sources or raised in local option budget, and that doesn't allow for any pay raise or other cost increases. I don't think our district is so different from many others. In our district wrestling is not and will not be on the cutting block but other sports likely will. How about your district? Do you know what is going on?
Newspapers say that the only solutin is to let school districts use their reserves. That is the same idea that led Kansas to a 7 million dollar deficit and started this mess. They have to fund schools or they are going to cost everyone programs of all kinds. Very dissapointing story in the Kansas City Star. If that is the legislators only solution we are doomed. Hope everyone enjoyed their little $600 gift from the government, we are going to pay for it big time. If they dont find a way to pass a small and it would be small, tax increase to fund public education it is going to be a mess.
I don't disagree with you at all, but before you take your arguement upstream you might want to recall that the $600 advance on accrued income tax payable was at the national level - not the state level. That budget crisis waiting to happen has not even been addressed yet.
Les; Yep you are right about that next funding crisis that is coming. I get a kick out of our fearless leader talking about how education is a priority with him. Some priority huh. I think they forget that not all of our kids have fathers that sit on the board of Exxon Oil. I think it is time that ordinary people start taking the time to find out how to remove people from office that have managed to squander our taxes and leave education out of the mix except in speeches of course.
Randy, I've known you longer than almost anyone on this forum and I have always respected your views on various subjects. I want to put a different light on the funding issue. First, I think a big problem is taxpayers not trusting the local school board. Our school board in Manhattan has told us for the past year, "we cut 1 million dollars from the budget." (We have an independent paper called the Free Press.) In this weeks issue, the paper stated we didn't cut 1 million but in fact we increased approx. 3 million. Who do we believe? Second, we are closing two elementary schools for next year to save $ plus we are losing students. We are losing students because of the taxes and affordable housing in Manhattan. Many people work in Manhattan but live out of the district. If property taxes and the cost of housing remains as it is, I see Manhattan losing even more students. We have lost over 500 students in the last two yrs!! I work with approx 45 people, only three have kids in the Manhattan district. It is cheaper to drive from Clay Center, Wamego, Riley,etc than to live in Manhattan. My point is, most people in this community are taxed out. I think school districts need to more accountable before any tax increase. Before we yell at the state level, we should be checking at the local level.
WalterV thanks for the link. To ALL please send your Congressman, or Senator an email requesting information on this matter. Many issues are local and handled by the school boards, yet it is the House and Senate who decide which funding will be cut, or increased. Although I doubt any increases will be forthcoming.
Get involved with your local school board, find out when the meetings regarding budgets are taking place. We support our schools with the taxes, and have a voice in these matters, if we choose to speak up. We cannot find and keep good teachers, let alone fund our sports programs. GET INVOLVED!!!
Ron;
Hard to compare Manhatten to KCK school district. We have five big high schools here in one district and god only knows how many primary and middle schools. We are stretched so thin that we can barely maintain the pitiful buildings we have. A five or six million dollar cut will be devastating. There isnt too much to be had in trying to affix some type of blame at the local level. The kind of cuts they are talking about take us way past the point of being able to cut corners to make it up. They are talking here about closing high schools and cutting everything but the bare essentials to keep the doors open.
by the way is that Ron i see here a Tacha? If it is I ain't mouthin off at you

)). I don't mean to denigrate the problems they are having in Manhatten and God knows I don't stand up for too many school boards or administrators in my life, but yesterday the legislators had a ten minute forum on a $500 a kid cut. Now that would be deadly to anyone no matter where they are from. Hey wrestlingfan whoever you are, you just keep up that humor boy that is what you are good at. The sky is falling, ha you are a raucus funster arent you.
Randy, after reading your first post on this subject, I did meet with some of our legislators. I can tell you from these meetings, they are getting pressure from this area of the state not to raise taxes. Both people ask me if I knew and understood the budget in our district. I had to admit, I really didn't know much about it. They asked me questions such as "if the budget is 10 million more than it was ten yrs ago but we have less students, don't you think we have funded enough money for education?" They also asked me what % of our local budget was adminstation salaries, how many adminstrators did I think it takes to run a school district the size of Manhattan? Randy, I was not able to answer the questions they were asking. Both legislators tell me they believe school districts have wasted big dollars and it is time to make them accountable. I do know more about our budget now, but I'm not sure I understand how everything works. It isn't like looking at a financial report from a business. (An example is special ed funding and all the mandates that go with it.)
I'm willing to keep working on this but I need to be better informed before I go back. I'm the last guy that wants to see athletics and activities cut from our schools. If you understand the budgeting process and can help me I would appreciate it. I will see one of our legislators on Sunday. By the way, I am RT.
RT;
Hey man. Nice to see you here. Next time you meet with those slippery devils ask them what they were getting paid ten years ago and why they have given themselves pay raises at 15% over the cost of living four of the last five years. They can double talk all they want about waste in school districts. There is no way anyone who does not work deeply in a school district can possibly answer all those questions. I would pose a question to them, however they don't want to answer it. How are school districts supposed to implement the myriad of new requirements imposed on them by the Kansas Legislators if they are going to cut the funding out from under them. Hey I agree with them on one thing, they could get rid of 75 percent of all the administrators and nobody would miss them. If we did that here it would save us about a million bucks. If they pass their little surprise we will only be short four million instead of five. They are providing smoke for the smoke screen. Sort of like that shell game they play on a street corner. Have them tell you exactly where the waste is. They have no better idea than you do, you are just more honest than they are. Way more honest.
Ronnie; By the way the they voted down the three hundred bucks a head cut on Friday which is good news but there are other equally bad proposals they are worried about now. I talked to a special ed person on Friday and she said if they cut us way back they will lose nearly our entire special ed work force. Those kids need what they have now. What in the world would we do for them if they cut it back that far. Ask that political fella what exactly his plan is for those kids. One thing I know for sure administrators dont do away with administrators, they do away with school teachers, coaches, and programs. Some of them have been itchin to do that for years. Put a head lock on one of those guys. I know you know how to do that,

.