Okay, must admit, I love football, played it from 4th grade all the way through college. I always wanted my son play but he was so small. He played 1 year in middle school, and despite the fact that he broke the school record in the 40 by .2 seconds and was .5 seconds faster than any other player on the team, and could hit like a crazy !#$$%#&,)(&#$ he never got to touch the ball. He did start on the A team as a wide out and a corner back, but again, never touched the ball. Talk about burning a potentially good kid out.
The often-used excuse is that he is "too small.” I could never deal with the concept of being "too small," especially from someone living and coaching in the Wichita area. Did anyone ever hear of Barry Sanders? You would think that some people could learn. Some of his old coaches could not believe that he had never played before because he hit so hard and ran the ball so well in practice. However, none of those was head coaches.
Here is my question, how many little guys, especially wrestlers also play football? What are the records of accomplishment and experiences of those individuals? I know it is easy for the big guys to transition, but for little guys is football better or another sport?
that is the stupidest thing ive ever heard. If youre talented in a sport play it. dont save urself for one sport. There are some kids in our school that if they played football they would be great but they save themselves for Basketball. Just play the dang sport. Don't be a Wimp
Barry didn't touch the ball much either till his senior year.
Billy you are an idiot as you prove time and time again. Just because a kid weighs 125lbs doesn't mean he can't play football. One of our CB last year, David William, also a 3x HS SQ, was an outstanding All-League CB in the NCAA, which includes Southeast of Saline, Minneapolis, and Sacred Heart to name a few. All are State caliber football teams that have a tradition. David also played against Norton and Phillipsburg without any problem being 125lbs. I bet you say that Clay Madden as well has "no business" on a football field. If memory serves me right he is a starting CB and WR as well as a great wrestler.
This is not 5/6A wrestling powerhouse country. It's western kansas where the best athletes are those that are all around atheletes. I bet you that less than 10% of the athletes in western kansas focus on just one sport. Perhaps a correlation to why western kansas has been so dominate in the tradition of kansas wrestling?
Just because you're big doesn't mean squat. It doesn't guarantee an easier transition into wrestling. You're still going to face kids your size and probably have more skill than you do as you would if you were 103lbs instead of 275lbs.
Originally posted by billy_mcjackson_ripjc:
You have to realize that wrestling will pay the bills in college, and football won't. So, Trego Wrestler, you are wrong because common sense tells someone not to do something that will hurt their chances of gaining greater success.
This right here is a prime example. Apparently neither paid for the bills for you in college because wait you aren't wrestling anymore, or playing football. Common sense would tell you do what you want to do. Oh tell Jeff Horinek of Atwood that you should only do one sport in High School because colleges like 1 sport atheletes and tell me what he tells you. I guarantee you that playing more than 1 sport didn't hurt his chances of greater success.
I was 5'0 96lbs my freshman year play football and wrestling and then golf. What!? A kid that small playing football yes but guess what I am still here and I was weak (not that I'm much stronger now but) and I was tiny. I got abused everyday like a tackling dummy and it only made me stronger and more determind. Wrestling only added to that, and golf took my mind off it all.
I was maybe 5'3 115lbs my sophomore year and still played football and wrestling (SQ) and then did pole vaulting on top of those two.
I was 5'9 128lbs my junior year and I still played football and wrestling. I wasn't very big and still got drilled in practice but I bet that didn't add to the mental toughness required for wrestling in anyway.
I was 6'0 145lbs. when I graduated high school after playing football and wreslting (SQ). I was never very big and playing football developed not only mental toughness but a physical toughness that did transition into wrestling.
If anyone tells you that wrestling and football have no correlation or any other sports for that matter they are stupid! There are aspects of every sport that help with others.
Alex Ryan
You didn't prove anything with those words. You didn't name anyone that was good at both sports that was little. This is what the topic is about. You and your buddies never seem to get it right. I'm saying that most little guys that wrestle, shouldn't expect to take football that serious. I'm right, and you can't prove me wrong. You named a guy from your school that didn't succeed in football or wrestling to the extent of scholarships. You also mentioned Horinek, who is a beast. If I remember correctly, the topic isn't about big guys that play football, it's little guys.
I find your words to be annoying, and you should really stop trying to make me feel bad about not wrestling or playing football in college. With every post you make about me, you only say that I didn't wrestle, as if it makes me unable to speak in wrestling matters. Well I havce news for you Alex Ryan, you're going to a community college. I attend The University of Kansas, a state school with a nice reputation. You attend Colby Community College, and not just because you wrestled. You would have gone there either way. I would also like to let you know that everything you said about football and wrestling relating is a joke. Of course they're related. I was a 2x state qualifier/placer, and I was also on the Pre and Post-Season All-State team on Hovpen.com. You didn't do squat in either sport, so stop pretending like you wrestling JV at a community college means something. My decision to not wrestle or play football is not your business, nor anyone else's. You shouldn't talk about my decision because you know nothing about what went into it. I could have wrestled. I could have played football. I hurt my knee and I didn't have a ton of money, so an opportunity to attend KU was definitely worth chosing. Have fun at community college and good luck getting looks at bigger schools when you're fourth string at a bunk school.
Last time I checked Colby was one of the top Juco Program's in the nation?
Also no where in that last post did I say anything how I'm so good I'm wrestling at Colby did I? All I said is that you aren't playing football or wrestling anymore. Stop implying things that are not implied.
Alex
Attention Forum Members:
I am not playing football, or wrestling, in college.
We know. We don't care. Let's get over it.
Ur an Idiot Billy.
There was a kid on my team this year that weighed 105 lbs and didnt get hurt in football. When his favorite sport wrestling came along he hurt his knee. Guess wat hes playing football again this year, and wrestling.
Nut it up and be a man.
Mr. Furches at no time am i talkin about ur son just to let u know.
While at Chapman I played in 8th and 9th grade. I only weighed about 145 my 8th year and 155 my 9th year. I was small for my class as everyone else was about 6'0 and 200 by then. I was told I was too small.
Even coming off the bench for 3 minutes of a game late I had 2 tackles, a sack, and a fumble recovery. But I like playtime so basically figuring I would never get any PT I became the mascot and hung out with flexible cheerleaders the next 3 years!
First of all, I want to say that this has nothing to do with your son, Mike Furches. This is just something that I have noticed with football. It helps to be fast but just because you are the fastest does not mean that you are the best runner on the team. You also have to have the right technique to run the ball like cutting up the field, making good decisions and being able to "see" the field.
As far as size, my husband was an excellent defensive tackle on a winning state football team. He is only 5'6" tall. Again, his technique on the field is what helped him succeed.
Originally posted by mom4:
First of all, I want to say that this has nothing to do with your son, Mike Furches. This is just something that I have noticed with football. It helps to be fast but just because you are the fastest does not mean that you are the best runner on the team. You also have to have the right technique to run the ball like cutting up the field, making good decisions and being able to "see" the field.
As far as size, my husband was an excellent defensive tackle on a winning state football team. He is only 5'6" tall. Again, his technique on the field is what helped him succeed.
Winning State Football team? Did you marry an Abilene guy?
No, No, No. I am a very proud Western Kansas woman. My heart is still there but my job is not. I plan on going back west once I hit the lottery (or retirement-whichever comes first).
My husband graduated from Plainville in 1986. He was on the Plainville 3A state football team in 1985. That was the year when 3 football teams from the same league won State (Norton 4A, Victoria 2A and Plainville 3A). Other teams in the league: Smith Center, Stockton, Trego, Osborne and Hill City.
Originally posted by mom4:
No, No, No. I am a very proud Western Kansas woman. My heart is still there but my job is not. I plan on going back west once I hit the lottery (or retirement-whichever comes first).
My husband graduated from Plainville in 1986. He was on the Plainville 3A state football team in 1985. That was the year when 3 football teams from the same league won State (Norton 4A, Victoria 2A and Plainville 3A). Other teams in the league: Smith Center, Stockton, Trego, Osborne and Hill City.
LOL! Just checking, it's not uncommon though in Chapman or Abilene for Rivals to wind up husband and wife.
I say play what you want. I am a little biased here because I love football so much more then wrestling, but I would hate to have to choose between one sport. I also think you learn more about life if you do three sports in highschool.
Nothing personal by those mentioning Nate, I agree, another factor not mentioned is the ability to hold on to the ball and not fumble. My thing is at least give a chance to see what happens. I do think that smaller kids are at a disadvantage on a football team. Remember I played since 4th grade all the way through college. Swayz has even seen the old man's college photo. I do believe that even a 150-pound high school kid has a much better advantage than a 120-pound high school kid. The other thing is the improving size and speed of players. I know a 6'4" kid for Derby for example that is running around a 4.6 40 and this kid weighs about 265. My best 40 ever, at 185 was 4.6 and to think of being hit by someone that fast at 265 is, well, unthinkable. It is a great sport that I love but those small kids that play and succeed are special.
Thank you Mike. You are actually talking about the same thing I tried to talk about. I wasn't saying anything about kids and how they shouldn't do it, I was giving examples as to why this is true. Little guys don't play football. It's a pretty simple observation to anyone who has played football. If you look in the NFL, you will not find too many guys under 200 pounds. Of the guys that are under 200, they run 4.3 40's and have insane agility. Anyone can and should play whatever sports they please, but little guys don't play as much football because it's a rough game with nothing to even the field, unlike wrestling.
Has anyone here heard of Darren Sproles? I know he didn't wrestle, but he is a pretty little guy, and is now in the NFL.
He's a little guy that benches over 400 pounds my man. I'd say he's an exception to the rule.
Is Darren a specialty player or a down to down player? I don't know. I agree they are there, but they normally don't have long careers. One exception of a position player that I saw play in college quite a bit is Dat Nguyen the linebacker for Dallas. I think he was less than 240, which for a linebacker is small. I also had a teammate in high school who was 5' 4" and weighed 160, as a nose guard that Don Shula said was the toughest high school player he ever saw play. He had a heck of a heart but just didn't have the size. Unfortunately, he couldn't even make a college team and ended up playing baseball a game he was more suited for. I think that is a part of it as well, there are certain sizes that are better for certain sports. I was originally recruited as a tight end for example, but now a 5'11" 180-pound tight end is excessively small, even for most small college programs. Curtis gives a good name but it would be interesting to do a search of various college level programs, and pro level programs and see how many position players (they take the down to down beating) there are that are playing that are small in stature. I’ll give credit to the little guys though, to be playing football, they may be little in stature but awful big at heart.
I did just find this. The average NFL player is 6'1.5" and 245 lbs
http://www.faqfarm.com/Q/What_is_the_average_height_and_weight_of_an_NFL_football_player
Sproles is a specialty player right now, but he's playing behind Ladainian Tomlinson.
Chanute Head Coach Andy Albright wrestled 140 pounds his senior year and is not very tall and he started at center on the off. line and nose tackle on the def. line for 4A State Champions Fort Scott High School in 1996
When I was Coaching at Andover, the year they won the 4A State Championship in Football, we also qualified the entire team for State and placed 3rd. I think out of the 22 postions on the Football Field, 13 were filled by wrestlers. Some of them were 126 and 132 pound wrestlers playing guard and nose tackle.
I think back to the 70's when Douglass High School won the State in Football over Hoxie. I watched that game and remember an awful lot of wrestling names from both teams.
I've always felt that the best hitters and defensive lineman were wrestlers, reguardless of size. Any Football coach who wants his players lifting weights instead wrestling is missing out on the best offseason conditioning possible. Put a good football player in the weight room and if he is not totally dedicated he will put the weights down when he is tired. Put him in the wrestling room and he will shove weight around, learn leverage and position and if he gets tired and tries to stop, someone will kick his but.
Back to the size issue. Obviously coaches want all the 200 pounders on the field, but in my years of coaching I found that the hard nosed wrestler at 140 to 160 will play like 220 and will make up for his size with what he has learned on the mats.
Originally posted by TAlley:
When I was Coaching at Andover, the year they won the 4A State Championship in Football, we also qualified the entire team for State and placed 3rd. I think out of the 22 postions on the Football Field, 13 were filled by wrestlers. Some of them were 126 and 132 pound wrestlers playing guard and nose tackle.
I think back to the 70's when Douglass High School won the State in Football over Hoxie. I watched that game and remember an awful lot of wrestling names from both teams.
I've always felt that the best hitters and defensive lineman were wrestlers, reguardless of size. Any Football coach who wants his players lifting weights instead wrestling is missing out on the best offseason conditioning possible. Put a good football player in the weight room and if he is not totally dedicated he will put the weights down when he is tired. Put him in the wrestling room and he will shove weight around, learn leverage and position and if he gets tired and tries to stop, someone will kick his but.
Back to the size issue. Obviously coaches want all the 200 pounders on the field, but in my years of coaching I found that the hard nosed wrestler at 140 to 160 will play like 220 and will make up for his size with what he has learned on the mats.
Great post and I agree totally, again, for me I am speaking of the 100-135 pound wrestler. I would take a 150-pound wrestler that is decent over a 175-pound football player that don't have the conditioning, balance, and knowledge of how to take someone down any day, especially on the defensive end. This raises another question. What aspects of wrestling help football players the most? I personally think it is the tackling and blocking parts. Knowing how to hit, and control is vital. It is also another way that I believe Greco for example can be of benefit.
While none of them wrestled, we have some Kansas boys that excelled in football while being small in stature. Gayle Sayers (this is a stretch because guys weren't as big back in the day), Steve Tasker (hall of fame nominee and noted as the greatest special teamer in NFL history), and Barry Sanders.
One that excelled in wrestling and football is Paola's Brian Shay (once held the NCAA record for most combined yards from scrimmage). This took some research but, his most recent playing height and weight was 5'8" 213 lbs. He was a state champ at 160 and was listed on the 1995 Wrestling USA all america team Honorable Mention. He also won a state title at 189, but I'm guessing that he was a pretty good football player at 160. This one is a stretch, but I would call him a "little guy."
I know there have been many more guys come through Kansas that mad a name for themselves in the Juco ranks. I was the radio man at Butler when Rudi Johnson ran amuck on defenses for 2 years.
He ran for 2224 yards with a 7.3 per-carry average in 1999, and gained 1603 yards with a 5.7 avg. in 1998. I was there when he was Named MVP of 1999 national JC championship game, rushing for 373 yards and scoring all 7 Butler TDs in 49-35 win over Dixie College (#1 rush defense in the nation!).
Gentleman,
Watch for the name Mitch Arnold for BC.
A very good athelete ,wrestles at 135 andwill start at cornerback. He is very good tailback,
has a chance to start on defense.
OOOOK, I'm watching for it.
if i remember rightly, Luke Zouzas was a pretty good cornerback for Salina South when he was in HS. He's obviously one of the exceptions though.
AJ Heckel from Ulysses fits into the little guy category but don't tell him that or you may be picking yourself up. he is a key part of their Football program which should contend closely for a championship, and his state level wrestling skill is already proven.
Originally posted by RichardDSalyer:
Originally posted by Aaron Sweazy:
I know there have been many more guys come through Kansas that mad a name for themselves in the Juco ranks. I was the radio man at Butler when Rudi Johnson ran amuck on defenses for 2 years.
He ran for 2224 yards with a 7.3 per-carry average in 1999, and gained 1603 yards with a 5.7 avg. in 1998. I was there when he was Named MVP of 1999 national JC championship game, rushing for 373 yards and scoring all 7 Butler TDs in 49-35 win over Dixie College (#1 rush defense in the nation!).
And the 220 lb. Rudi Johnson wrestled where? By what I remember he wrestled one year in middle school.
By reading the paper the other day it looks like Chapman's top 2 at the QB position will be Jon Arveson and Will Irvine, both good wrestlers in their own right.
Don't forget Desoto has a good football player in Neil Erisman.
speaking of sproles i believe he did wrestle in the kids club...
Mitch Arnold
6 tackles and 1 interception for BC.
Deshazer cornerback for Wichita West.
Okay...here's a better question! How many 5'8, 150 wrestlers have to shrink down from 5'11 180 on the football roster.........?
Madison King from Wamego who placed fourth at 125 his senior year also played football. He was actually team captain his senior year he had something like 5 fumble recovories, 5 or 6 blocked field goals and 2 interceptions and even got to run the ball a little.
not much of a lil guy but a wrestler, Nolan Kellerman (lawrence) Is a killer runnung back.
I heard on the radio last night that Weatherbee from TMP was their running back. Not bad for a 5ft. 4 in. wrestler. I know that TMP is not very good in football but they gave Abilene a run for their money until Weatherbee broke his leg during the game.
I just saw this on The Mat, read the article and must admit, I was impressed. Might be D3 but still impressive.
http://www.augsburg.edu/athletics/sportsnews/091305levesseur.html Augsburg's Marcus LeVesseur named MIAC Football Player of the Week on offenseMINNEAPOLIS (9/13/05) -- Augsburg College football quarterback Marcus LeVesseur (Sr., Minneapolis, Minn./Bloomington Kennedy HS) was named Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference Football Player of the Week on offense, it was announced on Monday.
In Saturday's season-opening 29-26 loss at Wartburg (Iowa), LeVesseur accounted for 378 of Augsburg's 404 yards of total offense. He moved from his starting wide receiver spot to quarterback after the first series and completed 24-of-35 passes for 242 yards, a touchdown and interception, while rushing for 136 yards on 22 carries with two touchdowns.
(rest of article at the above link)
Shelstien, my freshman year i was listed in the program at 5'5" 125 lbs...I was actually about 5'2" 95 lbs. Everybody knows football programs are exagerated. And being 5'2" 95 lbs I was almost killed while playing special teams against Onaga...or maybe Lebo...don't really remember. Anyways I got DESTROYED by a 6'2" 200 lbs MONSTER. little guys should just wrestle year round. really there is no better way to get better at wrestling than lifting and wrestling, and talking on the forums.
Teyon Ware (national champ for OU) led class 6a Oklahoma in rushing at 150 pounds as a Senior...I believe his football made him an even tougher competitor. AJ Heckel is an outstanding Defensive Lineman yes Lineman and darn near impossible to stop. Dexter Deeds played Center for Goodland. Its been said before and I'll say it again. It's not the size of the dog in the fight its whether or not that dog has been trained to kill. (or something like that)
I agree with you Mike. I'm no Football expert, but my son Josiah weighs about 60lbs and is in 5th grade and plays for the Salvation Army League here in Salina. He played last year as a 4th grader and was the smallest kid in the league, whihc inlcudes Beloit, Clifton Clyde, Concordia, Russell, Etc. He ended up beign more agressive than the rest of his teammates and the coaches and parents were always commenting on how well he tackles. This year has been no different. I was speaking with his coach yesterday who said todl me that he put the other smallest kid and Josiah on the same end together because they are the two hardest hitting playerson the defense. He also did this to lure the other teams into beleiving that since they are smaller, they may try to go that way when running the ball. It's proven effective during several attempts. I'm also a strong believer that the reason he and the other kid are more agressive than the rest of the team is due to their experience in wrestling. Josiah has also been pretty consistent with takedowns in wrestling and I think this has also carried over with tackling.