Kansas Wrestling
Posted By: BuffTiger04 State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/25/04 06:18 PM
I have a good friend of mine that is a security guard at the coliseum, and he told me that a rumor has been going around there that this is the last year of the state tourny being there. I was just wondering if any body has heard anything else on this subject, or if any body knows for sure that this is the last year for it. I know there have been several topics on having it moved in the past as well. If it is moving, any body know where to?
Posted By: Nigel Isom Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/25/04 07:53 PM
Well from what Rick Bowden told us at the rules meeting, they are definatly not having the tournament there next year becuase they are going to be redoing the building so expect 4A 5A & 6A to be moved possibly even a split championship where 4A goes to Salina and 5 & 6A go to Topeka. Not for certain yet.
Posted By: V-S Vikings Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/25/04 08:10 PM
And just to add to what Nigel said, once the move to Salina and Topeka is made, expect it to stay that way.

For one thing, by next year, all four classes will be going to four instead of three mats each. 3-2-1A will be trying it for the first time this year in Hays.

For another, after the problems that have come up over the years in Wichita, expect that more than just the arena is going to have be fixed before we'll be back there.
Posted By: Kit Harris Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/25/04 11:49 PM
Rick informed me yesterday that the Topeka Expocenter will not work out b/c of the Shriner's Circus (I think that was the event he said) did not want to change their date. According to Rick, the KSHSAA is still interested in the possibility of the Salina Bicentenniel Center, but not sure about the split of the tournament, another facility, etc. The issue is still being looked into by the KSHSAA at this point.
Posted By: RJW Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/26/04 03:27 AM
It appears my dreams of a 4A getting to split off into their own site may really come true. Somebody pinch me because this can't be real! I pray that we get our own site and Salina appears to be the logical choice. Again, no disrespect to the people who work and organize the tourney as it is now, but 4A in Salina would be heaven for the 4A wrestlers, coaches, and fans. AMEN!!!

Rick Williams
Colby High School
Posted By: Hovpen Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/26/04 03:42 AM
I hope to hell it isn't real. The way it is now, with all three classes puts fans in a position to watch the top in the state instead of just one sellfish class that wants to do their own thing. Spliting it would deprive the wrestlers of the opportunity of wrestling befoe a house full of fans, and fans the opportunity to watch the best in any class. Criminal in my opinion, and not in the best interests of moving wrestling in a forward motion in Kansas.
If anything, put all classes in the same venue, and let 3-2-1A fans also watch the 4-5-6 schools and the other way around. A split of classes would be the most harmful thing you could do for the promotion of wrestling as a sport.
Besides, this was all hashed out last year after the state meet. Now where is that darn spell check so they don't jump on me for spelling errors?
Posted By: wrestler147 Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/26/04 03:44 AM
i know neither school has a wrestling program but why not hold it at KU or K-State respective arena's?
Posted By: Jeremy Roberts Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/26/04 03:56 AM
At the rules meeting I went to Rick Bowden said something about rewarding the one four year school with wrestling with a state tournament. I was thinking why not reward the junior colleges that have wrestling also. that would give four sites, rotate the site of each tournament.

One of the thoughts I didnt know about on this is the hotel space where the JCs are.
Posted By: Nigel Isom Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/26/04 04:03 AM
Hovpen,

I can't speak for everyone else but from my own point of view I don't agree with you. Every time I have been to the state tournament 95% of the time I have spent watching the 4A matches. This is of course because I’m from a 4A school. I generally don't care to watch the other classes because they didn't concern me. Even as a competitor I was always watching the 4A mats. Granted there were a few matches I watched out of curiosity like Bo Maynes and Zach Roberson but outside of those I really didn’t care. To me having 4A by itself is not a problem. I wouldn’t feel deprived at all if this were to happen. As a competitor I don’t think it should be that big of a deal either unless you just like all the attention.
Posted By: Aaron Sweazy Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/26/04 04:34 AM
As a person who loves watching great wrestling and is a fan of competition, I have to say I'm not crazy about a split, but think about this also, you don't play all the classifications on the same football field during the same day either starting at the butt crack of dawn. But unlike what Nigel said, I watched some of the Junction City and Manhattan guys closely as they were larger teams in the area...Salina South was another one because of the respect issue with the coaches they have had and currently have. I overall like wrestling, but Salina for just a 4a classification would be phenomenal.
Posted By: RJW Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/26/04 04:42 AM
Aaron brings up a great point about why 4A at a separate site is the way it should be. The split means four mats, a later start on Saturday, an earlier end on Friday night, and smoother weigh-ins and check-ins. Sounds great to me!!
Posted By: Prant Garker Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/26/04 06:29 AM
If the state tournament would have been split in the last few years, at least one class would have missed the following matches:

Erisman/Luedke
Knox/Garcia
Carrol/Hemmerling

And people from 6A would never have seen these wrestlers:

Earl Jones
Eric Luedke
Danny Grater
Ross Taplin
Jake Kriegbaum
Tad Greer
Jordan Bedore
______ Devoe
Neil Erisman
Etc.

People from 4A never would have seen these wrestlers:

Sequoya Hill
Lukas Zouzas
Doug Hoover
Charles Knox
Cody Garcia
Josh Baldridge
Dustin May
Tristen Deshazer
Kyle Potter
Justin Dyer
Josh Carrol
Zach Hemmerling
Tyler Perry
Thomas Rhodes
Michael Bradley
Shawn Bunch
Gabe Conaghan
Bishop Carroll 2002
Stewart Bogart
Brett Stewart
Ben Coleman

As you can see, my knowledge of 6A wrestlers is much greater than my knowledge of 4A wrestlers and finals matches. I'm sure Les Brown could help me out with both of those. For those of you who agree with me, feel free to add wrestlers or matches that I have forgotten. For those of you who want a separate site for 4A, feel free to explain why you wouldn't miss seeing them.

What I do know is that I enjoyed seeing every one of these wrestlers compete. I understand that the Colisseum is a crappy building, but I can not for the life of me understand why 4A wants to be completely separate from 5A and 6A. Why can't all 3 classes be in Salina or Topeka instead? What is so absolutely terrible about waking up an hour earlier?

I've said it before and it may just be because I was a crappy wrestler, but walking out for the opening ceremonies at state and seeing the huge crowd was absolutely unreal. That's something that I will not soon forget. Don't you think walking out and seeing a crowd that is 33-66% smaller be less captivating? If you want to move the tournament from Wichita, heck, go nuts. But to take away the excitement just for the sake of trying something new? I don't understand it.
Posted By: Nigel Isom Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/26/04 07:20 AM
Your list Grant, I didn't want to watch any of them, sorry but they didn't entertain me at all.

Why watch Knox and Garcia when you could watch Jeremy Long and Beau Tillman. Tovar and Bahe. just to name a few.

I think alot of people in 4a want to be away from 5 and 6A becuase they don't want to be reminded of how easy it is to get to state in both of those classification.
Posted By: sportsfan02 Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/26/04 07:57 AM
Prant,
If the tournament is moved a split is required because no other facility can offer the amount of floor space needed. This is the first I have heard of the 4 mats per class being used. Even the Coliseum wouldn't be able to accomodate that amount at one time. If the 4 mats is the plan then a split is required regardless of where held. The only alternative if you want to keep all 3 classes together is to drop the 5th and 6th place wrestle offs and keep it at the Coliseum. I'm old school and was against the 5th and 6th place matches when they were adopted. Speaking as one of the many volunteers, the tournament used to be a very pleasant experience prior to adding those matches but since has become a real grind. We used to have some breaks to enjoy the experience and be able to go out for a nice dinner prior to the start of the finals which now time does not allow. I agree that the tournament should be kept together in one place at all costs as it is the one thing that gives us any major media coverage during the season. Move some of it to Topeka and Salina and see how many stations send reporters and trucks from Wichita. Likewise see how many are sent from Topeka to Salina if part of the tournament is being held in Topeka. This is the one time of year we actually get to see coverage of wrestling on the local airwaves and in the Wichita Eagle.
Posted By: Pull My Finger Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/26/04 01:22 PM
I know that WSU has spent a ton of $$ renovating their basketball arena, has anyone been inside to see if that might be a possibility for a new site? Does anyone know if this site has even been considered for future state wrestling?
Posted By: sportsfan02 Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/26/04 01:29 PM
Pull My Finger,

It has the same problem as all of the other university venues mentioned previously. Not enough floor space. These facilities were built for one thing, bb! You could run one class maybe two at each but not three. My prediction still stands that once the tournament is broke up the KSHSAA will find that it isn't affordable to have one class in say Salina and two in Topeka and the tournament will return to individual host high schools.
Posted By: V-S Vikings Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/26/04 02:29 PM
This really is an interesting situation, isn't it? Kansas has traditionally been a state that splits all (well, except track) of it's state championships off to different sites. And, that's what people seem to like.Coming from a state that has a three-day all-classes-at-the-same-place tournament, when I first moved down here seven years ago, I thought you guys were nuts.

But after taking teams to Hays for four years, I don't think it's really a bad thing. Hey, it's kind of fun being the only game in town! Trouble is, we have only one facility in the state that has the seating capacity and floor space for a combined tournament, and I doubt that Bill Self is going to be willing to give up that weekend every February.

Bottom line is that State is State, no matter where it is. If you don't like the site, don't go.
Posted By: rocknraider Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/26/04 04:20 PM
I agree w/ Prant. Some of u may not have gave a **** about 6A, but i sure cared to watch as many 4A matches as a i could. My team's schedule did not have too many 4A teams in the mix and it was a real pleasure seeing the best of 4A go at it like wild dogs.

It was great seeing some of the best of 4A like Ross Devoe, Earl Jones, Luedke and Jake Kriegbaum all duke it out. And meanwhile waiting for those matches and more i could see crazy stuff like Adam Venegas lose to Garen Stacey, the fiasco of Dedrick and Kevin Gray, view an action packed match of Tanner Gardner vs. Charles Knox, see Stewart Bogart pin a guy in .50 seconds, etc.... None of this would have been possible if the classes were split up. State was one of the best experiences of my life and i know for a fact that having only one classification to watch would have defiled my state experience.
Posted By: KCWrestlersMom Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/26/04 05:07 PM
I also agree with Prant, and rocknraider as well. In addition to their reasons, I enjoy watching the wrestlers we knew all through the kids' program, many of whom are in different classes than my son. I have watched some of these kids since they were seven or eight and I really enjoy seeing them wrestle in the big show. In my opinion, it will be a sad day if they split 4-5-6A into different locations. Just because Nigel doesn't want to watch something doesn't mean it isn't worth watching.
Posted By: pizzaboy Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/26/04 05:19 PM
What if I want to watch 321A matches? I can't, and nobody can unless you are 3A, 2A or 1A. So it is only selfish to say that splitting the classes will not allow you to see the 4A matches.
Let's get out of the ice-skating rink!!!
Posted By: V-S Vikings Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/26/04 05:25 PM
But where can we go that will have enough floor space for the mats, seating and hotel rooms for everyone? There isn't any place. Sure, if Salina wants to build a 16,000 seat arena and a couple more big hotels, maybe, but under the current State tournament schedule, it isn't going to happen.
Posted By: GoldenDomer Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/26/04 05:44 PM
I remeber my sophomore year (2001) watching Josh Carrol, Josh Lattimer, and Gerad Speer all repeat as state Champions at 215. That was an impressive site, one that many would have missed if they split up state tournaments.
Posted By: Prant Garker Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/26/04 07:49 PM
Tanner Gardner
Blake Malloy
Dusty Spaulding
Anthony Whetstone
Jeremiah Beltran

Five more names that no one from 4A would have seen.

"We want to leave 5A and 6A" is all we ever hear. I think the fact that missing out on a nice dinner is a lame excuse to split up the classes. Besides, it's pretty sweet to be completely immersed in wrestling for two straight days. If you have a point besides "we want to start later," please let us know. Otherwise, I don't understand why you want to leave so bad.

And I think Nigel is just the leader of a vocal (if inarticulate) minority. I would say 75% of all wrestlers want the classes to stay together.
Posted By: Pups4Ever Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/26/04 08:11 PM
I personally would liked to have seen more 3-2-1a teams when I went to state, because a lot of the tournaments I went to had schools around that size (and 4a schools). Most schools in my league are 3a and most of the wrestlers I wrestled all season were from 3-2-1a and 4a schools. I would have loved to see the Hoxie team and how dominant they could be. I really don't know and don't care about 5a or 6a schools and would rather have 4a and 3-2-1a in the same location. In my opinion, that makes more sense.
Posted By: Aaron Sweazy Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/26/04 08:15 PM
Whetstone stole an egg McMuffin from me once..lol

There are pros and cons...not too longs ago there were 3 guys that became 4x champs on the same day if memory serves me correctly...Seeing Ark City's long dominance of 1st place taken away, but also some of the bad like a miscellaneous slash throat incident...I like the atmosphere and being on the floor it's fun as you can talk with media and other wrestlers....heck Sky Siemers (my sis in law's brother) made it to state in 1999 and we took our niece onto the floor and the Manhattan cheerleaders were awesome in helping us to get her to quit fussing...she fell right asleep. Wrestling as a community needs to stick together, but sometimes a year or 2 of breathing room just might be what the doctor prescribed.
Posted By: resslnfan Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/26/04 08:15 PM
If you were not entertained by the Shawn Bunch/Thomas Rhodes fnal then you are not much of a wrestling fan. Many, many other exciting matchups in both 5A & 6A. I am a 4A fan and I do believe it is tougher to qualify for state through 4A regionals, however, I believe that the quality at the top 6 levels out and generally becomes equal at state. I'm not so sure that the comfort and speed of the venue would be worth not witnessing many of the great matchups and "old friends". Nigel certainly does not speak for this 4A fan.
Posted By: sportsfan02 Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/26/04 08:20 PM
Prant,
I don't view this as a 4A vs 5 & 6A arguement. Rather from the posts I've seen on here for the last two years it seems to be a North vs South arguement. I could be wrong, but I don't remember seeing any 4A fans from south of the Mason/Dixon line (Hwy 56) complaining about the venue or combined class tournament. Maybe it's time for southern Kansas wrestling to secede from northern Kansas wrestling. I know as a native northerner Prant this puts you in a precarious situation but I feel you will make the right decision and fight the tyranny of the northern Kansas fans/coaches.
Posted By: Pups4Ever Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/26/04 08:21 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by sportsfan02:
I could be wrong, but I don't remember seeing any 4A fans from south of the Mason/Dixon line (Hwy 56) complaining about the venue or combined class tournament.
Scroll up just a little bit...
Posted By: chewie Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/26/04 08:23 PM
I'm a 4a guy and I mainly stick to the 4a matches, but i often end up watching some of the other matches from different classes if they interest me. In a perfect world we would have all classes in the same arena, but that won't happen. A part of me wants to split away from 5 and 6a, but a bigger part of me wants them to stick together.
Posted By: sportsfan02 Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/26/04 08:29 PM
pups,

Don't force me to break out this famous line from another board......... Pups4ever.."Ok, y'all got me. I said something pretty stupid."
Posted By: Pups4Ever Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/26/04 08:46 PM
I fail to see how I've said anything stupid (at least on these message boards). I really didn't care much for the 5a and 6a matches and would have much rather seen the 3-2-1a matches. I think the tournaments should be 4a and 3-2-1a at the same place and 5a and 6a at the same place.
Posted By: Nigel Isom Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/26/04 09:02 PM
I’m going go out on a limb here and say a few more things here.

First and foremost as I said in my original post, I speak only for myself when it comes to this subject. It is my personal opinion and should be respected as such. Prant, I’m not trying to lead anyone much less try to convince anyone else to change their opinion. Simply put I said I don't really like watching 5A and 6A. However I would have like to watched 321A wrestle, and in fact I got a change to several times as it was always taped and played back on PBS. For as much respect as 5A and 6A people have for 4A I don't see any reason why they should stay at the same tournament. I didn't even bother to watch that one kid wrestle and then do his infamous "cut throat" after that match which was extremely unsportsmanlike. Now that doesn't have anything to do with a particular class I’m just saying it wasn't watching those matches because 5 and 6A bored me. I hear a lot of complaining that people don't want the tournament split up but I can pretty much tell you that it is inevitable. They can't have it in Wichita next year. And there just isn't anywhere else in the state that can support all three classes. Personally if 4A gets moved to Salina I would be in heaven cause that is only 60 miles from me, its basically home field for Abilene, and I could watch 4 mats of pure 4A action. All I can say at this point is everyone here whining about how they don't want this to happen should probably start warming up to the idea that is going to. 4A most likely will end up at a State as 1 class, while 5 & 6A will probably be pair together. And it won’t be the first time this has been the case in the history of Kansas wrestling.
Posted By: GorillaHawk Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/26/04 09:12 PM
OK, here is my two cents worth from my penny head...

If/when the Kansas Coliseum is not used, the KSHSAA will probably go to single class state tournaments...

Bramlage (K-State) and Allen Fieldhouse (KU are plenty big enough to hold a multiple class tournament, but people say that because they dumped their wrestling programs, they shouldn't be used...I say get over it! Granted, scheduling could be a problem, but if they are capable of hosting a big event, go after it...

Now, as far as single-class tournaments are concerned, these are the current options: Gross Arena in Hays (which 3-2-1A is already satisfied with, seats 4,600), the Bicentennial Center in Salina (seats 6,500; the Kansas Expocenter in Topeka (seats 10,000); and Koch Arena in Wichita (aka Levitt Arena, seats over 10,000). Then there is also the possibility of John Lance Arena in Pittsburg (seats about 6,000)...And what about Ahearn Fieldhouse in Manhattan (seats 11,000)???...Future possibilities include an 8,000 seat arena that is in the works in the Olathe area and there is talk of a possible "coliseum" near the Kansas Speedway in western KCK...

High schools are not an option...I can't think of one high school that is remotely big enough to put four wrestling mats down, then have enough seating for 3,000-4,000 people...

Some think that media coverage will improve if the KSHSAA adopts single-class state tournaments...As one who was in the media for 20 years, trust me, it will get worse...Newspaper sports staffs around the state are already stretched to the limit...By having possibly 4 different tournaments, you will see that some tournaments will not be staffed by certain papers as they will rely on the Associated Press (which consists of the state's bigger papers) for stories and results...You won't have the "hometown" or personal stories...You'll get a generic story and results...That's it...And as far as television--forget it...Unless the tournament is in that station's town, it won't be covered...

My wish would be for all four tournaments (3-2-1A, 4A, 5A, 6A) to be held at Allen Fieldhouse over the course of three days (similar to what Missouri does in Columbia)...It can easily be done if the KSHSAA would get its head out of its backside...
Posted By: Prant Garker Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/26/04 09:13 PM
I am confused as to how there is tyranny imposed by the Northern schools. Wichita seems pretty far South to me, and most of the 5a/6a schools make the trek down to the Colisseum every year with minimal complaining.

I would like to point out that if Kansas had a perfect wrestling venue- where the building wasn't old and cracked and if there was a nicer security staff, you would never see this topic.

Nigel, I find it impossible to believe that you didn't watch the Carrol/Hemmerling, Bunch/Bradley, or Knox/Garcia matches with at least a little bit of interest. None of those wrestlers on the above list interested you at all? Not one single bit? Seeing Manhattan lose state by 1 point didn't fill you with glee?

I question your veracity, sir.

(That means you're lying.)
Posted By: rocknraider Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/26/04 09:35 PM
What about 6A repulses u people?? I find all the other classifications fascinating and delightful. It is splitting up the classes that would create more hostility between the A's.

Personally of all the classes, i am least interested in 321A only because i hardly ever get to see them. Thus since i cannot see the 321As, i cannot relate to any of the famous faces and names in that class. If 321A somehow worked out a deal w/ all the other classes, im sure everyone would learn to appreciate the other's quality of wrestlers and grow an interest in the other classes as well.
Posted By: Pups4Ever Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/26/04 09:59 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by rocknraider:

Personally of all the classes, i am least interested in 321A only because i hardly ever get to see them. Thus since i cannot see the 321As, i cannot relate to any of the famous faces and names in that class.
Ya see, that's why I'm not that interested in 5a or 6a. I'm not saying that they are bad, I'm saying that I'm more interested in 4a and 3-2-1a because I wrestled those teams all year long.
Posted By: sportsfan02 Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/26/04 10:26 PM
GorillaHawk,
It's not a question of seating capacity at any of the university sights you list it is a matter of floor space. Again, I do not believe any of those arenas can hold 8 full mats along with all the scorers, announcers and computer tables.

Prant,
Sorry to see you've went over to the dark (north) side. As to the Coliseum and it's need for repairs there are about 30 million dollars worth coming. As to the security guards we southerners will continue to sit in the seats as opposed to the aisles and not risk being thrown out.
Posted By: RJW Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/26/04 11:57 PM
My reasons for the split are simple:

I want my wrestlers to get to bed earlier on Friday night.

I want my wrestlers to have to go through less hell at weigh-ins.

I want my wrestlers to get to have time for a decent meal after weigh-ins on Friday morning and night because we will start later on Friday and get done earlier on Friday night. (4 mats).

I want my wrestlers to get more rest because we can start later on Saturday as well.

I want it to be less of a zoo due to there only being one class.

I don't want my wrestlers to wait for me as I stand in line Friday night for an hour to get an updated bracket because the overworked staff can't keep up.

I want my wrestlers to be the only show in town like the 321A guys in Hays.

I want my wrestlers to deal with a friendly staff that isn't frustrated with the mess and stress caused by too many classes together (again look to Hays for an example).

I guess I can live with State as it is, but that doesn't mean I can't want something better.

P.S. I have a sad confession to make. I have been at Colby for 3 years and the only match from 5A or 6A that I have ever watched was Prant's last match at State because we Colby coaches just had to see the Forum Legend in action. It is not that I disrespect 5A and 6A or don't care; I just am too wrapped up in our wrestlers to get a chance to look down at that end. We usually take 6 to 9 guys and we are busy getting them ready, coaching them, watching their upcoming opponents, or watching guys from our regional that we know.
Posted By: BuffTiger04 Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/27/04 12:18 AM
Prant....you said and I quote "I would like to point out that if Kansas had a perfect wrestling venue- where the building wasn't old and cracked and if there was a nicer security staff, you would never see this topic." I see ur point, but I have been told that they are going to do some renovating of the coliseum...as far as security goes, the friend of mine that works there happens to be security...now I'm not stickin up for him or anything cuz he hasn't had to do wrestling, he has always had to do the other thing they have goin on up there at the same time; but what I am saying..is that some of those guys that do that, have to work any where from 10-14 hour shifts every day...now I don't know about you, but if I had to put up w/ that many people there for so long...I'd probably be a little cranky my self. BUT you are also right in saying that they could be a little nicer over all.
Posted By: Prant Garker Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/27/04 12:52 AM
Thank you, RJW, for finally posting a meritous argument as to why you want the classes split up. Some of your points I can not argue, but I will try to offer my point of view as well.

I think the fact that state is a zoo just adds to the excitement. Even though they are overworked, I think the volunteers do an excellent job of keeping everything in order, and don't really see how a noticeable improvement could be made by a separation.

The weigh in was undesirable--especially when you're near the fat end and have to stand next to guys like Jhris and Venegas when they aren't wearing pants. But to weigh in that many wrestlers in the amount they do is pretty impressive.

You as a coach may not have watched many matches, but I guarantee the wrestlers and spectators do. I never would have seen Earl Jones wrestle had it not been for state, and you must remember that by the finals, 95% of people are spectators.

The mats at state are supersoft. Seriously, I could sleep on those things.

I think you may find that an earlier end to Friday does not necessarily mean more sleep for your wrestlers. After staying with the team for 4 state tournaments, I can guarantee that teams from all over the state engage in shenanigans. Not saying that all do, but there are some.

In addition to that, it's very hard for a high schooler to sleep with all the excitement. Even if he isn't engaging in shenanigans, he's probably just staring at the ceiling or watching softcore porn.

Finally, I'd just like to say thanks for watching my last match. It was quite disappointing, as that was the only time in two years of varsity wrestling that I had been thrown...but what can you do? No biggie.
Posted By: Mike Church Sr. Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/27/04 01:06 AM
I personaly like to watch all the wrestlers. I feel it would make for a short tourny with not much atmosphere being in a class all alone but maybe I'm wrong. However look at it like this, are the college scouts going to be at 5A and 6A state or at 4A state! Maybe both. Who knows. I for one would like to know who the real state champ is is each weight class instead of three.
Posted By: PhiGam Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/27/04 01:37 AM
The issue of mat space/arena space can be dealt with simply. Extend the tournament to three days. There are bordering states who have a multi-class, single venue with a timetable schedule that can be readily copied. This would allow us to combine all four classes into a single arena. We should look past class rivalry and examine what is best for the sport. I believe you would conclude that by comibing our efforts and showcasing a unified state tournament you can best achieve publicity, enhance recruiting opportunities, and begin to stop the numbers slippage we are experiencing statewide.
Posted By: Prant Garker Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/27/04 06:22 AM
I like the way you think, PhiGam.
Posted By: rocknraider Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/27/04 06:56 AM
I can totally back up Prant on the craziness being exciting. As much as it sucked seeing half starved 14-18 yr olds w/ bodies that look like a starving ethiopian hobo, it was awesome! There was a great sense of aw w/ so many good and great wrestlers all meeting together to weigh in.
Posted By: Aaron Sweazy Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/27/04 07:15 AM
Recruiting is a bit easier on colleges with the combined classes in my opinion, because sometimes you might be after 1 or 2 guys and wind up discovering some body else that will fit nicely into your program.

As for this quote:
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High schools are not an option...I can't think of one high school that is remotely big enough to put four wrestling mats down, then have enough seating for 3,000-4,000 people...

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How big is "The Dungeon" at Topeka High in terms of seating? That thing looked like it went on forever to the rafters, and I remember them wrestling quite a few mats at a JV tournament I went to my freshman year.
Posted By: LegRider Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/27/04 10:36 AM
I ussually don't comment on the high school forum. I usually just read for the humor.

I realize that it looks like state is going to be split up while the colesium is renovated. I do hope however that all goes back to the way it is now. I have twin 10 year old boys that wrestle for Chanute wrestling club. Maybe some of you can remember back to those all day Sat tournaments. But they have made friends all over the state. I don't know for a fact but I would guess that these kids are going to be in various A's. I for one would love to watch these kids wrestle at state in high school as I have watched them all the way throuh kids wrestling. Most of them will probably quit. But some are going to stick with it. For all the negatives that some of you list there are two positives for keeping it together. The atmosphere of a joint state tournament is electric. You split state up and its going to take away from that.

As for the coach who wants his wrestlers to get more sleep. I'd bet money these kids weren't sleepin.
As we always say in kids wrestling, "It's for the kids."

Just my two cents.
Posted By: RJW Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/27/04 01:52 PM
I spent a major part of my life at the 321A State and it is not less "electric" than the 456A State. In my opinion, it is more "electric" because you are the only show in town and everyone is there for your class.

And also, I'll take the bet that my kids would get more rest if we get out earlier on Friday and start later on Saturday. And yes, they would be sleepinG.

Your right, its for the kids and a split of the classes is better for the kids.
Posted By: Nigel Isom Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/27/04 02:38 PM
I can't say I will miss the current State tournament as it was. For those of you who have been both as a wrestler and a spectator, you know how long and boring it is to sit through 40 minutes of introductions to the finals. I liked the idea that was put out earlier by someone where 321A and 4A are combined and 5 & 6A are combined. That way the wrestling fans can get more benefits with out all the hassle. As it was already said a big part of why a lot of the 4 and 321A people don't care to watch the 5 and 6A matches are that they don't even see them during the regular season. Its kind of hard to follow the matches of people who you haven't see all year.
Posted By: who am i Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/27/04 02:46 PM
I for one, would be very sad to see a split of the A's, I have many friends that I have wrestled for the last six years and I would regret not being able to see them wrestle.
Posted By: Hovpen Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/27/04 03:26 PM
Well, my reason's are strickly selfish in that I find myself covering a lot of times, kids from all three classes. As it is now, I don't get to Hays. If it splits, then I just go to the tournament Augusta is in and forget the other three classes. I really don't want to do that.
But then, as a former coach many moons ago, I can see some of the coaches viewpoint also. I just hope that this year they can bring back the hospitality room.
I guess you could say from my standpoint, media coverage will go down, and wrestling doesn't need that.
Posted By: LancerM Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/27/04 04:38 PM
I agree with Prant and rocknraider on this one. The atmosphere is amazing, not only because of all the people from your class, but also just because of the sheer number of people. For many of us this will be the largest venue we've ever competed in or will ever compete in and I think making it smaller would hurt the aura of the tournament.

Also, I'm from 6A and have only been wrestling since freshman year. However, in the two years I've already qualified for state I have watched every class, sometimes over my own. I had no idea who Eric Luedke, Earl Jones, or Jordan Bedore were outside of following them my computer and to be able to see them finally wrestle was a fantastic thing.

Sure, maybe a little more sleep would help, and maybe smoother weigh-ins would be nice, but I, and I feel most other wrestlers, have never had that big of a problem with it. It's just part of what state is all about and I love every bit of it just the way it is.
Posted By: rocknraider Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/27/04 06:49 PM
Preach on brother LancerM!
Posted By: Nigel Isom Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/27/04 06:55 PM
Well I know the Bicentenial Center would let the coaches have a nice hospitality rom as they do for the kids tournament. But this is about high school wrestling.
Posted By: lwayne Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/27/04 08:04 PM
The Coliseum is getting tired and is in need of an upgrade. The County Commission is planning on a multi-million dollar expansion upgrade to improve those things that fans, coaches and wrestlers have complained about for years. You spoke and they listened. I am afraid that if you split up the state it may be more important to win the Newton tournament that the state tournament in some classes. With the size of the tournaments around the state 20-24 teams it can be more exciting to wrestle in those large tournaments than a single class tournament.

If we keep the 3 classes at the present location, improve those things that need improving, and take a chance of adding 123A by adding a third day what a great spectical we could have for Kansas Wrestling. Break it up and you destroy the excitement of the State for a large group of wrestlers, fans and coaches.

I am old enough to have worked state tournaments at high schools where you would have 750 -1000 people. Compare this to the finals at 7,500. There is no compairson to the level of excitement.

I will also add that the marching in of the wrestlers needs to be changed. The finals are way too long. Something could be done to speed that portion up but don't break up the classes because of $$$$$$$. Sure the state could reduce the cost of rent on the facility, I think that is entering into Rick's decision but looking past that what is best for the Wrestlers, Fans and Followers. Keep the State Tournament Format the same or improve don't step back into the 70'S
Posted By: Walker Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/28/04 02:21 PM
I've been going to the state tournament in Kansas since I was a kid, except the last few years. I'm now coaching on the Missouri side. They have there tournament at one site which is the basketball arena in Columbia. They have only three classes here which makes it tougher to qualify for the tournament.There are two qualifying tournaments, which I don't like. They wrestle all of class one then go to the next class. So after each round most of the fans leave the arena and another group comes in.This keeps the stands packed.Which would be comparable to Manhattan or Lawrence. Since Kansas has four classes it would be tough to follow this format. Its probably not feasible but I like how they do it in Missouri. Very exciting atmosphere here and you don't have to miss any matches from other classifications.. Finals are just like Kansas except they don't take as much time on the parade and medal ceremony..
Posted By: RJW Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/28/04 02:30 PM
Most 123A coaches will fight coming into our State event to their death because the event at Hays is awesome. The entire town embraces the event and the treatment of everyone involved is second to none. That is what I think 4A would have if they split off and went to Salina. We split up all other sports except Track and that seems to work pretty well. (Volleyball may have 1-2A together and 3-4A together??)

I will tell you Salina embraces 4A state volleyball and basketball very well and do the event right. I guess I want that for 4A wrestling.
Posted By: sportsfan02 Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/28/04 03:07 PM
RJW,
It's not about what's good for one particular class of wrestling. It's about what is good for the sport of wrestling as a whole, in the state of Kansas. It is the opinion of many on this board that keeping the most classes together as possible, is best for all.
Posted By: MAS Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/28/04 03:30 PM
sportsfan02,
That is your opinion about what is best for Wrestling. Why is that the best thing for Wrestling? RJW has given us reason after reason for splitting the tounament but the only reason you have come up with is you will miss great wrestlers in other classes well you know what, I bet life would still go on if you didn't watch 654A matches. The state champion would still be crowned and that is what best for the kid. That at the end of the state tounament he has the best memories, which would be memories that he made.
Posted By: sportsfan02 Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/28/04 04:36 PM
MAS,
Scroll up and see if you can find where I mentioned watching other classes. The reasons for keeping the tournament together are numerous and that is not just my opinion but one that is shared by many as I stated. Again scroll up and read the entire thread before you respond.
Posted By: RJW Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/28/04 05:39 PM
Sportsfan- Here is your answer then, Those media trucks from Topeka and Wichita almost never cover anything about teams out of their area anyway and rarely cover much about 4A, so I guess I can live without them and so can most of the other 4A teams they don't care about. Also, the best coverage we ever get is from the Salina Journal and they cover us whether in Beloit, Colby, Wichita or any place else (even though they are 180 miles from Colby) so that is why I would like to have the 4A State in the hometown of the best wrestling media for us.
Posted By: smokeycabin Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/28/04 06:09 PM
With State Budget Crunches - Make it one class for individual sports. Wrestling 8 Regions with 4 qualifiers each. 32 man bracket and one venue. Should be able to see the best kids in the state with that format.
Posted By: sportsfan02 Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/28/04 06:56 PM
RJW,
Those media trucks from Wichita never cover anything in regards to wrestling local or otherwise, except the State tournament. That is why it is so important to keep them rolling to one location for that one time of the year. Remember, it doesn't matter for what reason we start losing wrestling programs, Title IX, budget cuts, lack of local interest etc., once it becomes acceptable there soon won't be wrestling anywhere. I would venture to say that the 4A schools could be some of the hardest hit by Title IX once the courts start requiring the high schools to follow the same criteria the colleges are required to meet to be in compliance.
Again, and this is just my opinion, but I do not believe that putting one class of schools in any arena will provide enough revenues for the KSHSAA to continue to do so for long. Not unless Salina is going to give away the facility and all the other costs associated with such an event. People argue that the 321A is successful at Hays with about the same amount of competitors but I believe that has more to do with the size of the communities and the way they support ALL their sports. I was at one of the last state tournaments held at a high school gym prior to the move to Wichita. While the gym was packed it held a maximum of 1,500 fans. I see nothing to indicate that those numbers would be much different today if the tournament was broken up. Simply put, other than western Kansas schools 4,5 and 6A won't draw as many fans to a wrestling event on an individual basis. That is great for you but bad for us in and around the major metropolitan areas.
I like most on this board will follow my team wherever they go but that won't feed the bulldog where the sport is concerned.
Posted By: Nigel Isom Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/28/04 07:55 PM
Im still amazed to see people talking about this. The fact is the State tournament will get seperated next year, there just isn't anyway around it because of the way KSHSAA operates. The only question is where will each class be going. I can say with almost absolute certainty that the three classes that were at Wichita will not all be in the same building next year. Understand that KSHSAA does not care about the media, what they do care about is having things done in a procedure that has been repeated so many times before. All I can say is expect to see seperation next year.
Posted By: Prant Garker Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/28/04 11:11 PM
Can't a man dream, Nigel?
Posted By: Nigel Isom Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/29/04 01:30 AM
Sure, go ahead.
Posted By: GorillaHawk Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/29/04 02:09 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Nigel Isom:
Understand that KSHSAA does not care about the media, what they do care about is having things done in a procedure that has been repeated so many times before.
Nigel---

You hit that right on the head about the KSHSAA not caring about the media...I'm not saying that when at the State tournament, the media deserve to be treated like kings, but over the years, they have been crapped on by the powers that be (KSHSAA) in Wichita...You don't stick working members of the media in one of the back hallways to work, away from any of the action...You want to know why the state wrestling tournament is not covered as well as it should be? It's because of the KSHSAA and it's "not caring" attitude...
Posted By: Aaron Sweazy Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/29/04 05:11 AM
While I'm asking since I'm the only person that really tries to cover wrestling for my paper and nobody seems to know at the news office (only 3 of us, and the other 2 aren't the biggest sports fans), do I have to contact the KSHSAA for passes for regionals and state to "officially" get in?
Posted By: V-S Vikings Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/29/04 12:01 PM
Aaron:

For Regionals, simply go to the pass gate and identify yourself as a member of the media (and considering where they are, that shouldn't be too hard LOL). For State, you will need to contact KSHSAA directly to request credentials. You'll pick them up at the Coliseum.
Posted By: GorillaHawk Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/29/04 12:23 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by BigRedcoach:
For Regionals, simply go to the pass gate and identify yourself as a member of the media (and considering where they are, that shouldn't be too hard LOL). For State, you will need to contact KSHSAA directly to request credentials. You'll pick them up at the Coliseum.
Actually, for Regionals, you should call the host school at least a few days before the tournament starts and let them know you are coming...That way, they will be expecting you and you won't have as much trouble getting through the pass gate...

For State, things may have changed, but the last I heard, the Newton Kansan sports editor took media requests, and they had to be submitted in writing on newspaper letterhead...You also have to show your newspaper press pass at the pass gate...
Posted By: truck Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/29/04 08:16 PM
Here's the solution to satisfy everyone.

Split out the classes to each have their own state tourneys, and bring back Grand State.
Posted By: Aaron Sweazy Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/29/04 09:30 PM
Newspaper letterhead huh? lol...our paper is so podunk small town that it should be fun finding that
Posted By: number two Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/31/04 06:12 PM
GRAND state now i havnt heard that sense 1976 but you want the best of the best thats a way to go. top 2 guys of each class in state and lettem kick hell outa each other in salina for the big finale. That will also give ya the top school and the top class in the state. but then the 4a guys wouldnt have anything to argue about. And we would find out if they or the 321a are THAT MUCH BETTER THEN 5a and 6a. i think you would find it evens out over a 10 year time frame. THE SINGLE A STATE TOURNYS WERE BORING BUT GRAND STATE WAS AWSOME
Posted By: Aaron Sweazy Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/31/04 06:55 PM
What Jim said reminds me of a beer commercial: BRILLLIANT!

Grand State would be great for the sport, but I say only allow Seniors. Invite all state placers that were seniors and combine the A's to set up brackets and a Senior So-Long type of farewell and aprreciation for the great wrestling of the past 4 seasons given to Kansas Prep wrestling. It would also be a good warm up for some for the National High School Championship
Posted By: Nigel Isom Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 01/31/04 10:22 PM
Sorry but the idea isn't going to fly with kshsaa
Posted By: number two Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 02/01/04 02:35 AM
NIGEL NEVER SAY NEVER IT WORKED ONCE AND THE GOOD OL KSHSAA WERE THE ONE WHO SET IT UP. BUT IN ALL TRUTH I LIKE THE IDEA OF PUT UM ALL IN THE SAME PLACE AND DO THREE DAYS IM A BIG A FAN OF THE SPORT AS ANYONE BUT I WANT TO SEE ALL THE GUYS THAT WE HERE ABOUT FROM THE EAST AND THE WEST SMALL AND BIG SCHOOLS FOR GOD SAKE WHO CARES ABOUT AN EXTRA MEAL OR SLEEP MAN THIS IS STATE
Posted By: Pups4Ever Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 02/01/04 03:21 AM
Make the best wrestlers in the state wrestle each other? BRILLIANT!!!!!
Posted By: Nigel Isom Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 02/02/04 03:57 AM
I didn't say never, but from my conversation with Rick Bowden its pretty much a given tht grand state won't be making its way back anytime in our lifetime.
Posted By: Pups4Ever Re: State Tourny at Coliseum - 02/02/04 05:24 AM
Ok, I can understand not wanting to have a grand state for sports like football, volleyball, basketball, baseball and others, a school like Derby would kill a school like Jackson Heights in basketball, but what is wrong with having a grand state with individual sports? I mean, I would really like to know the KSHSAA's reasoning for not letting this happen. Heck, they are all together for track, why not give grand state medals to the top 6 placers overall?

Golf, track, cross country, and most importantly, wrestling need a grand state so we can really know who is the best in the state, not who is the best in the state in each school's relative-size class. The size of the school has no bearing on the talent of the individual.
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