Paola should be pretty tough this year in 5A. Nathan Payne will likely repeat as state champion this year if he continues to wrestle well. Cullor also looks tough at 215, probably being top 3 material. Harris at 145 also could place in the top 3. Paul Oliphant at 140 should also place at state. Some other wrestlers throughout the lineup are also looking to qualify for state and provide team points. Paola is currently ranked tenth in 5A and looking to rise as the season progresses.
So bigkneepad#2 what place did Paola end up getting in the Olathe North Invitational?
they won the tournament with 185 points, blue valley came in second with 176
What tournament do they go to this weekend?
sorry, it's slipped my mind, i'll hav to ask someone. I know we go to basehor-linwood on the 17th and 18th for a tough tournament but this weekend is drawing a blank
Nathen Payne is good, and i don't know what he's done in the offseason, but Turner's Mike Steinmetz should give him a run for the title. Last years state final between the two was a classic. Not real high scoring, but a tight 1-0 decision in favor of Payne. This year at the Bobcat Classic, and again at state, should be two great matches between them.
yeah, but i think payne will win in another close one
I asked my friend and we go to the bonner springs tournament this weekend.
Bigkneepads #2, what was your friends name from Paola that told you where the tournament was at?
My buddy Eric Harris helped cure my ignorance about our schedule.
Nathan Payne and Steve Cullor both tore it up at the Bonner Springs Tournament.
There wasnt anyone there that really gave Payne a match. Im looking forward to seeing him wrestle Mike Steinmetz.
i dont think that Oliphant will place very high at state if he places at all. He lost to Spring Hill's 140, Derek Trammell, on jan 9th, at the SH dualo with Paola
bigkneepads #2 do you remember who won the Spring Hill - Paola dual? My friend wants to know.
Paola won but i think that if Spring Hill had there 103 and 112 pounders it would have been different
if Spring Hill's 112 and 103 pounders would have stuck their kids ( which was not to hard of a task) then the dual would have been a 39-39 tie, plus the penalty point SH should have gotten for sullivan biting when he got stuck
Bigkneepads #2 i was wondering what Eric Harris and Nathan Payne are currently ranked in state?
Fo Sho
Eric Harris is currently ranked #3 at 145. Nate Payne is ranked #1 at 171.
Yeah all that I have to say is that all 5A schools are crap and Paola is one of them. The real wreslting is at 4A and 321A.
i agree with badass 5A is CAKE!!!
If 5A is cake, then Paola should be ranked higher than 10th, cuz Paola has been beating some good teams in other classifications.
paola has been the frontier league champs last 3 years at least, and there are some tough team in the league, includin baldwin, spring hill, wellsville, and prairie view. im sure they are usually dual champs as well.
being that I know about paola and the way their league is, I wouldnt say that 5A is cake, yes it is easier from a point that we see it. That there are only half as many teams to compete from, but the way I see it after you get through the first couple rounds everything is pretty even.
I have a question for you, even though wellsville is ranked 3rd as a team, there is no way they will compete with a team like Paola till state, when most teams are down to a level that they have a chance to compete with.
When does Paola wrestle Baldwin this year, that should be a heck of a dual. Coach harris has done a great job with his kids at Baldwin.
Guys dont go kidding yourself. Put any 5A school against Hoxie. Where do they stand now. Ok stop crying now you see where I am coming from.
Eudora will host Baldwin and Paola on February 13th.
Like I said before, Payne is better than Steinmetz. I hope they meet up at state again, so Payne can beat him there, too.
123a is weak explain how i stuck the top 4 189 lb. and i'm ranked 6th in 6a that must say something about the competition level. 4a,5a and 6a are tough
or it could just mean u got lucky or that 189 is not a strong weight in 321A, overall I think all the weight classes are about even.
a grand state would answer all these questions.
stalling sob yu ust recognize that 89 is not a strng weight class at all in 3-2-1A try sending one of your guys into 112 125 or 145 at the Hays state tournament and watch them get ripped apart
ID SEND 112 DUSTY BRIGGS
125- TYLER MCCORMICK
145 NEIL ERISMAN
AND WELL NEITHER ONE OF THEM WOULD GET RIPPED
Hoxie's 112 pound freshman, Michael Schamberger, has already beat Briggs this year. How tough is 112 out west? Schamberger will only be the 5th seed in the Northwest Kansas League Tourney (Younkin-Oakley, Deeds-Goodland, Loyd-St. Francis, Powell-Colby).
Annon from Norton beat Herrera in the finals at Newton in the 125 pound bracket. Spillman of Hoxie (3rd at state as a freshman, 4th as a soph and state champ last year) was handling Carter of Garden City (2nd @ Liberal & 2nd @ Basehor) pretty easily when he pinned him. Spillman and Annon of Norton only have one loss each and they lost to each other.
And......at 145 - WAKE-UP!!!!!! Eirsman is great and will be even better as he ages, but I can not imagine him even being close to Pyle of Sabetha (2x champ - once in 4A & once in 3A - and a 3rd), Drennan of Minneapolis (1st & 2nd - beat Pyle at state last year), Engelbert of Beloit (2nd at state last year and beat Johnson of Norton this year) or Johnson of Norton (2nd as a freshman, 1st in 3A as a sophomore and 1st in 4A as a junior also won by major decision in the finals at Newton). And if you a representative from 4A - Eric Luedke from Colby can stick with any of these guys too
Care to pick another three to send out this way?
Les, we all appreciate the vigor you promote western Kansas wrestling with and it makes great fodder for these forums. But when are these great teams going to travel and face the competition you readily promote they will defeat? Garden City is given all the credit for coming to Basehor and beating the Kansas field and a very mediocre Iowa team handily and Hutch had a respectable showing at Lees Summit - but that is it. To back up the smack you have been running you need something beside statistics and the watered-down Kansas state tournament system. Send a team to Lees Summit, Ray South or Platte County MO; Lincoln East or Omaha Skutt Nebraska; Broken Arrow Duals; Sioux City Heelan Duals, Urbandale Invite, or Mt. Ayr Duals in Iowa. How about The Clash at Rochester, MN Mayo or the Reno NV TOC. Or barring all that at least travel to Washburn Rural and put a team up again Jeff City Helias? Do you see the point that us in the KC area struggle with. We see the Oak Parks, Blue Springs, and Platte Countys, the Shawnee Heights and others travel and back up their smack with beating diverse competition. These fantastic Western teams need to go somewhere besides their backyard to garner the respect they deserve.
I don't disagree with you on the need to compete at that level. I for one would love to see it happen. But I suspect that rural Kansas teams will begin traveling to those great tournaments when individuals or corporations begin sponsoring them.
It is difficult to imagine that the coach of any one of these great teams out west will be able to sell the concept of traveling extreme distances and overnight stays at a point in time when the funding for many school districts is already at risk. In fact, I've heard of a few coaches that are being asked to cut the travel expense of their existing schedule already.
Many schools have had to or soon will be forced to cut back on staffing at the teaching level just to make the budget work. If that is going on, I don't see funding for athletics increasing. And there is not enough county assessed value to raise taxes to offset the loss of state funding - especially when rural econmomics have already been hit hard by the ongoing drought and national recession.
Goodland has been able to travel to Liberal, Newton and Basehor (last year) because their local wrestling enthusiasts (booster) club picks up a significant portion of the expense. Most other rural communities do not have the luxury of that type of support.
I suspect that Garden City has a little more latitude, given the size of their enrollment. But I'd be curious to know how they fund their travel.
I know Hoxie would love to compete against a Blair Academy or an Easton, PA - as they hit many of those kids during the freestyle circuit. And I'd love to see a Norton or a Hoxie or a ...... travel to compete in the caliber of tournament you have mentioned. But in the current agricultural recession and state budget crises, I don't see it happening.
I can't afford to write a check for them to do it. Will you?
Oh.....and I never water my statistics down more than 1 part water for every 4 parts fact!
just because the #6 guy in 6a beat a #4 in 3A doesn't say much. The 189 champion at Basehor is a 3A kid and he already beat the 215 Basehor champion earlier this year.. Things vary from weight to weight. a #6 kid from 3A soundly beat the #4 kid from 4A in 140 this week at Basehor though they wrestled last week and had a different result. I will put Hoxie up against any team in the state. It really is a kind of childish argument. I don't know why we always have to brag about our own, instead of just acknowledge good wrestlers for being good wrestlers. I do take note of a conversation I heard from a group of coaches talking at Basehor this week. They seem to all agree this tournament is tougher than any of their state tournaments. As one 5A coach said the depth of good kids in the field is a lot better.
Maybe if everyone had bags of cash like some eastern KS schools, we'd travel all over the world too...(just kidding, of course.)
I think wrestling out of state teams can be highly overrated. I remember last year, Platte County came to Highland Park ranked 14th in the country, and Manhattan beat them pretty handily. Sure they were a great team, but I'll take Kansas wrestling over any neighboring state, except for maybe Oklahoma.
Perhaps the reason Western Kansas teams don't travel to Lee's Summit, etc. is because it's a long, long, long way, and they know they can get equally tough competition in their own back yard.
Les, Well put. But I do not buy expenses as a prohibitive issue, but as an excuse. That may be seen as harsh.
Case in point - Western Kansas American Legion baseball teams travel great distances for tournaments - it is merely the will they have to do so. Whether the comfort level to dominate traditional tournaments is keeping teams at home or the comfort level of team officials to not travel you have to look at the benefits. There is a reason the Ray-Pecs and Broken Arrows of the world make the sacrifice - they place their kids in the position to be noticed and receive scholarships (which is the same reason the American Legion teams do so). The vast majority of the Kansans have zero appreciation for 3A wrestling - because we never see it. The hard truth is that the teams from the East do not have to travel West. Instead they either cross the stateline to Missouri or travel 3 hours North or South. The Western teams will have to step up and go in order to get the respect they richly deserve. Until then it is all myth and Forum fodder.
I know you are not someone to ever be questioned when it comes to the stastical data you possess. It is amateurs vs professionals. But, to the surrounding states being a state champion in Kansas does not carry the weight it does elsewhere. Simply, Kansas has two too many classes and wrestle too few matches.
Dallas, who are you saying you beat in 321A at 189, three of the top five are still undefeated. I gave props to the lager classes, but when you said that I am just trying to figure out who you have beat in the small classes. I will say something about 321A 189 and that is that there have been a large number of changes through out the season already.
My main point was just to find out who you had stuck.
I have read with interest the remarks of Les and Wrestler one.
Coach Segovia of Garden City has worked very hard at getting tough competition for his team. In the last few years he has competed in the tourney in Ponderosa High in Colorado with many national and state ranked teams in attendence. Ponderosa, ranked 15th in the nation came to the Liberal meet again.
Garden City has also been traveling and competing in the El Reno Oklahoma Team Duals the last comple of years and has been successful.
Bottom line....the Western teams do get the opportunity to wrestle great teams.
I am not going to debate the strength or weakness of West or East wrestling but check out the Colby Duals and see how the East teams fared. Garden City won at Basehor like it was a JV tourney. And please.... don't tell how tough the Missouri teams are.
I agree that a grand state would clear all of this B.S. up. Until that happens just go up to hays one time to see the talent. Or go to the east west classic and watch that. Why didn't anyone respond about Hoxie? No one stands a chance against them. And stop bull shiting about the 6th ranked guy beating the 4th ranked guy. That is all crap. Stop trying to make make a case for 5A because they need to be in a girls league. Later
Wow, the guy that said Garden City won the Basehor tourney like it was a JV Tourney was full of it. Garden has a well balanced team with a lot of good kids that place and not many really outstanding wrestlers. They won only one weight in the tourney so it was hardly a JV Tourney to them and I doubt they would say that. It comes and goes last year they were fifth. All this crap about which side of the state is better is just that. Kids are kids. They wrestle the Metro match every year and Kansas has the edge in most individual matches won against the best Missouri has to offer. Everybody with any sense knows that Western Kansas has a legacy of fine wrestlers and the guy that said being a Kansas state champ means nothing nationally eveidently didn't look at the National NCAA Duals pages too carefully. There were three undefeated kids in those duals who were former Kansas State Champions. There are good kids wherever there are kids willing to put in the time and wrestle in the summer, lift weights, and pay the price. The idea that one side or the other or one state or the other has superior kids is so much crap.
i'm thinkin the reason some of the western kansas teams dont travel outlandish distances to wrestle in god knows where is because they know that some of the best compatition is less than half a tank of gas away and yes i agree i would take hoxie over anybody... in a tournament but i think in a duel i might c Norton ks edging them with wins at 7 weights 103,112,125,145,152,160,275 were all of those norton kids have already beat their hoxie counterparts
That would be a dual worth watching this year. But I guess when Hoxie and Norton meet at the Hoxie Invite, Norton Invite, Phillipsburg Invite, Regionals (in most years) and state, it probably does not make much sense to wrestle in a dual too.
It is true that Norton has picked up victories at those weights this year. Of course the season records at 103, 112 and 125 are 1-1. And the 160 match between Sprigg and Campbell was an 11-10 decision.
I would have to favor Hoxie in the dual even IF Norton were to win those weights, because I assume most of those weights would be close decisions. But I think Baker, Gilliland, Schippers, Schippers, ....... could all score the bonus points that would put Hoxie in front.
I'd love to see them square off in dual this year.
Yes my dear friends, I too would like to see Norotn and Hoxie wrestle in a dual. Most of the matches would be close and fun to watch.
u know what guys westeren kansas has better teams due to middle school wrestling so that there freshman come in and know a litle how to work and what it's like to be part of a team so yes there are better from that stand point but as far as good wrestlers eastern kansas domminates as far as champions every year look at the statsics i believe alot of that has to do with technique where as western kansas they are mostly just tough kids that really don't know that much technique but there just tough as far as placings after first cause east kansas dominates
u know what guys westeren kansas has better teams due to middle school wrestling so that there freshman come in and know a litle how to work and what it's like to be part of a team so yes there are better from that stand point but as far as good wrestlers eastern kansas domminates as far as champions every year look at the statsics i believe alot of that has to do with technique where as western kansas they are mostly just tough kids that really don't know that much technique but there just tough as far as placings after first cause east kansas dominates
Garden City has a great team but they only had one champion. I don't think that is domination. They have a lot of real good kids, not great ones. Yes, they won big but it is the first time in three years they have been in the top 5. They had more depth but the kids certainly were not dominant by any means.
Maybe that is true in 5 & 6A, but in 4 & 321A, Western Kansas pretty much dominates everything.
Not having a lot of finalists but having many that work their way through the back door to earn points on the consolation side would seem to be the definition of a good team.
Manhattan did the same thing in Newton - not a lot of finalists but the team was in for 3rd - 8th in about every other weight.
I'd bet the same type of approach will be what it takes to win the Beloit Tournament. Just too many teams capable of scoring 4 or 5 finalists. And too many more teams that will be able to equalize any one team's success out the front side with one or two great wrestlers of their own. I feel the team champ at Beloit will be the one who scores the most points on the consolation side to compliment their finalists.
yea right Bigpads 2, That's why ACCHS has won the State title two out of the last three years!!!! DOMINATING, WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes ACCHS has one two out of the last three, but after the season, I do believe that Hoxie will be able to make that claim, while ACCHS will have to settle for two out of the last four. Historically, though, Western Kansas has dominated 321A.
kneepads 2, I agree Hoxie is a great team no doubt, and should win it, easy for you to jump on the ol Hoxie ban wagon when you start to look stupid, isn't it? And Historically speaking from looking through this site, YOU ARE NOT A VERY SMART PERSON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Actually I scored a 27 on the ACT. This sounds pretty good, except for the fact that when I scored the 27, I WAS IN SEVENTH GRADE!! So, please do not insult my intelligence in hopes of making the bleak, pathetic existence that is your life a little brighter. Go buy yourself a big, cuddly teddy bear. That would be a more worthy source of happiness to you (I would hope) than slamming my intelligence on the internet, using technology as a wall to protect you from the physical beating you would receive if you encountered me in public after making such derogatory remarks. So please be nice.
DOLT!!!
On another more pleasant note, Paola has moved up the rankings and now is ranked 6th in 5A. They are finally getting the respect they deserve. I am proud of all you Paola grapplers and will continue to watch intently as you continue to climb the rankings, climaxing in a state title, hopefully.
Oh, now you are gonna beat me up??????? Calm down homeboy, didn't mean to hurt your feelings. This site is for wrestling ok?? Don't make yourself look any more stupid. I'm gonna write this off as young kid, talking smack!!
swade 41 you are the one with an apparent lack of wisdom historically western kansas does dominate 4, and 321A just take a quick peak at the medal winners from each regional under the "minneapolis not ranked?" topic and c who has more medal winners the east regionals or the west and then if you are writing off #2 as a disgrunteled kid then why are you unable to rise above that level of name calling and personal insults "homedog"
and if this site is truely "for wrestling" shuldent the wrestlers them selves aka these "young kids" be allowed to voice their oppinions without having to wory atacks on their intelligence. so back off "homeboy"
#4, Noone ever said he could not voice his opinion, however when I voiced mine, he used profanity on here and was very rude for no reason, he was the ONE that attcked first, that's why I made him looked stupid, now get back to wrestling!!!!!!!!
oic what we have here it is a case of a grumpy old old man using a 3 year-olds excuse of "he started it" GET BACK TO YOUR JOB!!!!!!!
I heard something Sunday Jan 26th that kinda hit a nerve, however I have heard another story that tells it the other way too.
The first story I heard was that Paola didnt wrestle at the dual with Prarie View and Anderson Co because they had so many sick wrestlers.
The second story I heard was that Paola had some wrestlers out, but still had enough to wrestle varsity and fill in the open spots but didnt want to take the chance of getting beat by Anderson County.
Which is ture? Where there enough wrestlers that they could have wrestled, but to keep a clean record in duals in the league as of now they didnt want to try their luck?
Hey Big Kneepad are you in school? What do you guys do in that school anyway tht you have time to be on here all the time. They need to give you a bit more to do I think. Pretty bad deal there all around.
Or bedtime what about bedtime, time to put on the jammies and hit the hey?
hey overtime mind your own buisness just so you know i do none of my posting durring school or after 11 on a school night but why is it your concern sometimes i wonder if people like you have nothing better to do than to worry about a highschool student that you have never met in your life... back to wrestling i believe that paola might have had enough wrestlers to fill the spots but if the majority of your team is sick why wrestle and have the risk of spreading the sickness to the other team making them go through the same thing
Um, actually it's spelled "hay," not "hey." Good thing you were kept busy during EVERY MINUTE of high school and learned how to spell, rather than waste valuable learning time on a KWCA forum.
(6th grade TR spelling bee runner-up REPRESENT!)
Who is ranked 1st in 5A right now?
Sorry BigKneePad, I guess instead of being sarcastic I should have just stated what I was thinking. One of the things wrestling teaches so well is respect, for your opponent and for the sport. The hope is that it is going to transfer to other areas of your life. The way you address people on here is both rude and devoid of that special respect that wrestling has taught most of us. I have been involved in wrestling for over 45 years on a very very active level and the thought of being lectured to or demeaned by a high school student over the topic of wrestling is laughable on one level and very sad on the other. That is what I meant to say.
The truth is that about 8 of paola's starters were out sick with the flu virus that is running rampant. Paola and Anderson Co. will wrestle next Tuesday, February 4.The Payne brothers both came down with the influenza virus the day after the Bashor tourny.After that the team started dropping like flies.
So basically what you are saying is that they could have wrestled if they wanted. But they didnt want to take the chances of getting beat. AC wont have much of a chance to stay with their full varsity team, however, if there would have been that many JV wrestlers it could have been intersting.
Western Ks hasn't dominated 4A for many years. Teams like Columbus, Santa Fe, Concordia, Abilene, and Clay Center which according to the map are in Eastern Ks have done great. They use to have a real advantage in 3-2-1a until some schools like ACCHS, Royal Valley, Sabetha, dropped to 3A (Royal Valley has now gone back up) but the edge is gone. Yes Hoxie is a great team right now and they are in western KS but to use the logic from the western KS dude about the number of medals won by one or two teams from the east, if you subtract Hoxie and Nortons medals the west isn't up to par either. I am not dissing anyone from any part of the state, but all the bias bull gets old and it is pretty much BULL.
Population-wise, which I think is what most people are talking about, teams like Clay Center and Abilene are considered Western KS. I know for stuff like the East/West Classic and the Shrine Bowl for football, anything west of Manhattan is considered "Western Kansas."
Fanatic, and Overtime, Really nice to hear some very true and positve comments from you guys. Thanks for setting these guys straight. i know I speak for alot of people on this forum, that appreciate what you guys have to say, and are tired of hearing the rude and sarcastic remarks from some of these guys. I agree that sharing difference of opinion and trying to prove one's point is what makes the forum fun. BUT some of these guys need to be more proffessional about it. And some of you guys must remember that some of the people on here have forgotten more about wrestling than you know. SHOW SOME RESPECT!!!!!
Anderson County will beat Paola anytime that they dual...
No they wont, AC is an improving team from the past, but they are not up to Paola's level yet. Here are a couple reasons:
1)after 160 it maybe all pins for Paola
2)AC's strong weights
125 Barns (AC) pins Elmore (Pao)
135 Sanders (AC)pins McKoon (Pao)
140 Gatlin (AC)dec Oliphant (Pao)
145 Harris (Pao)dec Adams (AC)
152 Elmore (Pao)dec Beckman (AC)
That will not be enough to knock off a team like Paola.
AC's 112 will beat hager
AC's 119 will beat Edwards (if harrington is stilll out)
i think the could pull it off..it will be close but i take AC in the end
AC vs Paola this is what I think each team is set up as, I am not sure I will give my prediction on each match too
112 Dusty Welsh vs Chance Hager (AC dec)
119 Reuben Wolken vs Aaron Edwards (Pao fall)
125 Keegan Barnes vs Eric Elmore (AC fall)
130 Tyson Adams vs Shea Mosley (AC maj dec)
135 Nick Sanders vs Ryan McKoon (AC fall)
140 Eddie Gatlin vs Paul Oliphant (AC dec)
145 David Howard vs Eric Harris (Pao dec)
152 Garrett Beckman vs Brandon Elmore (AC dec)
160 David Gooding vs Jimmy Stewart (Pao fall)
171 Adler Ladewig vs Nathan Payne (Pao fall)
189 John Gooding vs Brad Page (Pao fall)
215 Dallas Zook vs Steve Cullor (Pao fall)
275 Ryan Brown vs Caleb Payne (Pao fall)
AC 25 Paola 39
Anderson County isn't at the level of Paola, in fact, they're not even at the next level down. Paola would punk them so bad with everybody healthy that it would not even be remotely humorous.
david gooding (wrestles jv) was wrestling because his brother john gooding was hurt, and they bumped the heavies up a wieght. 160 will be brian jones, 171 chris whitman, 189 john gooding. adler ladwig got beat in a wrestle off by brian jones.
bigkneepads,
who are you igzactally? do you wrestle?
I'm a JV wrestler stuck behind Nathan Payne. Sucks, but me and him are tight, so it's not so bad.
Yea, which one are you, because when I watched your duel i Noticed you had three people wrestling 171 on your roster, so please infrom us which one you were to clear that up.
Which duel would that be, one of the 171 pounders quit awhile ago, I'm the one who didn't quit, I guess.