STA is ranked first in 6A. They've built a very good kids program, but three of their ranked kids transferred in from other schools this year. That's a lot of pts at state. Do private schools have an unfair advantage? What do you think about that?
To insinuate that parents are paying good money for tuition just to wrestle for a school is silly.
Could it be that the parents were either disatisfied with the education their son was receiving in public school, or could it be like the situation my wife and I will find ourselves in - unable to pay 14 yrs of private schooling, but are willing to shuck out the money for our children's high school education?
Well, as a general rule that might hold water. But look at the numbers. 21% of STA's varsity wrestling team (3 of its 14 spots) were filled just this year by kids whose parents wanted a better education than they could get at Johnson County Public Schools. I wonder if STA has about 21% new students who transfer in every year?
When my dad was in high school, Kapuan would recruit wrestlers by giving scholarships.
I find this topic to be very interesting.
it is a very fishy situation and one that was touched on last year when STA was rumored in approaching kids at other schools during meets to transfer. Maybe it was coincidence that 3 kids tranfer in this year. (quiality kids as well)
believe what you want to believe and remember that only STA knows if they are really earning their rankings or buying them.
Before I coached at a Catholic school, I used to think that they recruited, too. But, as was pointed out to me at a coaches meeting once, it's sort of hard to say, "Hey, your kid is a good wrestler! Come spend $4,000 a year so he can wrestle here!"
And most Catholic school schloarship programs are set up to benefit kids who have been in that school's system since elementary school, not superstar jocks.
If STA is giving these wrestlers a tuition break then that may make it affordable enough for them to attend school their. If the education is superior, they have a good wrestling program, and they their son is a wrestler, it's a no-brainer. In that scenario STA may have an advantage.
I know rockhurst does it. some 8th grade kids i know have been approached at tournaments to come play football and and told they will find some way to make it possible for that kid to pay the tuition.
very interesting stuff....i would say you have to find evidence that they are doing wrong before you accuse them. Otherwise its not fair
gutwrench1, I believe that two of the three wrestlers that transferred in have actually been part of the Aquinas kids program for quite a few years.
You might have to also consider how many good athletes a school like Aquinas loses to a public school because parents cannot afford to pay several thousand dollars in tuition a year.
Maybe some do come to Aquinas now with the wrestling program as a major motivation. That might give one school an advantage. But advantages like that are all over. Oak Park in KC now probably is gaining an advantage due to this Competitors Kids Club. I know there are several public schools in Kansas too that are currently benefiting from great kids programs. Bottom line there are advantages of different types all over the State.
i don't think anyone here is accusing, just discussing why people are talking around the KC area about this situation.
like i said, only aquinas knows the real story.
Yes, private schools have an advantage, clearly.
Huskerfan pointed out a disadvantage, but my opinion is that the advantages outweigh the disadvantages. That is why some states, like Oklahoma, do not allow private schools to compete in the state qualifiers. They can compete with anyone throughout the year but not at state. They clearly have unfair recruiting advantages. Oklahoma knows this and they are saying "if you want the "unfair" advantages that come with private schools, you must consider this....".
First, the Millstead kid transfered from another Catholic school to this one. I believe because his parents moved closer to Aquinas. The other two, Markey brothers, were at public middle school that had k-9th. They wrestled for Olathe North since the school was in their district. Why they didn't start at Aquinas until their sophomore year is a question you'd have to ask them.
I do not believe this is due to recruiting. Parents and kids ask other kids/friends all the time to come to the school. Is this recruiting?
I think the major factor that Aquinas is doing so well is due to a very talented sophomore class. Which in turn is due to (as someone said) good kids clubs.
STA's Milstead and family did not think Bishop Ward offered a competitive wrestling program and after not performing well at state last year despite a great record decided to transfer to STA. And, that is totally within their right to make that decision. If KSHAA had they known might have asked him to sit out 180 days. I think the ON coaches would be happy to tell you why the Markey's transferred and I suspect those coaches resent losing kids they put a lot into to another school. Whether from another catholic school or a public school, I think its clear that these three individuals who may enable STA to win the 6A state transferred there to wrestle. Kudos to STA to have a program that attracts student-athletes-wrestlers and an administration happy to accept transfers. But, this is not the same playing field that most schools are on.
Two points gutwrench:
1 — KSHSAA knows perfectly well who transfered, and inference that they didn't is silly.
2 — If a family moves a kid can transfer without penalty, which I believe was the case with Milsteads.
if you transfer for sports you sit out for 180 days whether you move or not. if you transfer for other reasons that sports you don't have to sit. that was the point i was making.
You mind showing us where in the rules of KHSAA it says those things?
I'm too lazy and more importantly, you're wrong.
trego's to poor to recuit even if it was a private school lol
Originally posted by gutwrench1:
if you transfer for sports you sit out for 180 days whether you move or not. if you transfer for other reasons that sports you don't have to sit. that was the point i was making.
Gutwrench,
as long as your family makes a bona fide move, there is no penalty. Who is the KSHSAA to say why the family moves, there is no way for them to know that, or even try to find that out.
All transfers have to get "cleared" by school they're leaving and the school they're transferring to sends that form to KSHAA. If the school you leave says you tranferred for athletic reasons you can't compete for 180 days without winning an appeal. Fact.
the above is a fact. it happened to a student who transfered from a school i know well to a neighbor school. the home school questioned the move as a athletic move and he had to sit out.
Originally posted by gutwrench1:
If the school you leave says you tranferred for athletic reasons you can't compete for 180 days without winning an appeal. Fact.
Rule 18
TRANSFER
"BONA FIDE MOVE— If a student’s parents, or legal guardian in case neither parent is living, make a bona fide move to a new permanent residence in the vicinity of the new school to which the student transfers, the student is then immediately eligible."
I am certain all transfers to St. Thomas Aquinas High School have been reviewed by the Athletic Director at St. Thomas Aquinas and scrutinized by KSHSAA.
Obviously the transfers were approved, or the athlete would have been ineligible for eighteen weeks.
dang this has been going on for years back in the 70s and 80s half of kapuns team was from douglas ks and and bishop goddard instead of carroll lots of good aircraft jobs to be had for moms and dads of superjocks
that would suck to be inelligable to play sports for a whole semester, especially wrestling which goes through 2 different semesters...
"Bona Fide" is the caveat, Mr. Saylor. I'm sure it's completely above board with KSHAA and do not mean to suggest that it is not, but when was the last time you remember three ranked wrestlers transferring to one school? Maybe you do not find that the least bit interesting, but some people do. The point of the thread is do private schools play on a different field than public schools and is that fair.
I happen to know a few other kids from our STA Kids Program Shawnee Mission Northwest - The Redcorns, Chaz Hill, They are or were ranked wrestlers. A few other that have step in our kids program include the Livengoods and Tanenbaum at Blue Valley North who are ranked kids. They will probably come back and practice with us when the high school season is over. Sultani's at Shawnee Mission South come to mind, We have three Walker Brothers who will most likely wrestle at O'Hara - One of them is already on Varsity there as a freshman. Olathe East has a freshman Anstine who has wrestled some varsity for them. Also, Shawnee Mission North - Artie Squire a freshman wrestling varsity for that school. The Markeys have been in our kids program for some time - As a matter of fact thay have another little brother coming up in our program as we speak and there father helps coach at our program. Building a program takes some work and 12 years ago a man name Joe Cisper started the STA club (We had 10 kids our first year). Cisper - That is right his son's are Nolan and Neil. After 12 years now we have around 100 kids in our club - not including the high school kids that come back after the season. There are few other kids I would like to mention but I do not have the time. I just return from kids practice and if your hoping the STA program is in decline you'll be waiting for a while. I am committed to the program for a long time and you have to drag me off the mat.
Sounds like a little haterism in gutwrenches voice. My son was going to transfer to STA a couple of years back and when we went to the school and met the administration, he was noticed by students and coaches. I must say that the coaches were nothing but professional, making sure not to cross that line. In the end he chose to stay where he was. We informed the school and the coaches, they wished him well with no pressure and no hard feeelings. Since graduating he has even gone over to wrestle with some of the guys over there. So as far as recruiting goes make sure you have proof before accusing. I know of kids all over the state who have tranferred to another school for athletics, before and during high school. To VS Vike Coach, $4,000 is a little low of an estimation of tuition at STA. Kudos to STA for having a school and wrestling program that attracts kids from all over the area. How long will it be before people are attacking the new Catholic School in Jo. County. St. James? Good points Coach McCarthy, You da' man.
I did forget to mention the STA Kids Program has around 16 certifed coaches who help with practices and tournaments. We have unbelievable support when ever we ask the parents to help with tournaments or whatever. We have a Super-Wonder Mom who does all our sign-ups, ordering uniforms, collecting and handing out all the paperwork. Also, I have been in the High School Practice room as well and they have a Coaching Staff Second to NONE. They care about the kids in and out of the class room as well as on the mat. They work with the freshman, sophmores, JV on an equal plane as the varsity. No body said anything twelve years ago about the High School program - when it was in its infant stage.
I think something that a high school public or private can take from this is that if you are interested in developing a long term successful wrestling program that you need to have a successful kids club as the foundation which Aquinas has. It can happen the same for a public school. I know Manhattan and Turner have successful kids clubs. I am sure you can go across the State to Wichita, Hutchinson, Columbus, Salina, Topeka, Abilene, etc. and find examples of both public and private schools with successful kids programs that have fed the high school programs. Not all private schools have successful wrestling programs. My guess is that the ones that are not successful both private and public do not have a strong kids program.
Here is a list of STA kids on the current Aquinas lineup that I know of: 112 Phillip Henes, 119 Skyler Scott, 135 Scott Markey, 140 Andy Hurla, 145 Paul Markey, 152 Joe Ibarra, 189 Neil Cisper, 215 Mike Hammer. There have been at least three other STA Kids wrestlers, Connor McCarthy 103, Brian Sullivan 119 and EJ Walter 160, who have wrestled some varsity this year for Aquinas and I believe these will all letter. I know Tom Greer is having an outstanding freshman/JV season and will also contribute in future years. I apologize if I left anyone out. These 12 kids each have several years of development in the STA kids program. Several of them have younger brothers still in the program. Several outstanding graduated wrestlers like Nolan Cisper and Drew Ibarra have STA Kids experience and high school State titles.
This is probably a good thing for the Kansas City Kansas wrestling. Strong programs like Turner and Aquinas can only help in the annual Metro Classic. I think we would like to regain those bragging rights. I think some other area schools like Mill Valley, Olate East, North and South are developing some strong kids programs and their high school programs should benefit from it.
So I think the focus should be not if a private school has inherent advantages but more on what kind of kids program is out there to feed our high school program. It is not built in a short period of time (like Smokeycabin has described) but it can be done.
Originally posted by gutwrench1:
"Bona Fide" is the caveat, Mr. Saylor. I'm sure it's completely above board with KSHAA and do not mean to suggest that it is not, but when was the last time you remember three ranked wrestlers transferring to one school? Maybe you do not find that the least bit interesting, but some people do. The point of the thread is do private schools play on a different field than public schools and is that fair.
There is NO caveat and you obviously speak out of spite!
St. Thomas Aquinas must abide by the same rules and regulations established by KSHSAA as do public schools. To suggest otherwise is naive. The only advantage private schools enjoy is the fact they do not have defined school district boundaries.
There is an old axiom used by most all public high school administrators which states "we spend ninety (90) percent of our time dealing with ten (10) percent of out students".
Generally, at private schools, which are a privilege to attend and not a government mandated right, if a student is spending that much time with an administrator, the student will be shown the door and will become the next disruption for the public schools.
Quit whining and accept the fact it was above board.
cntsdad:
Actually, I was refering to Immaculata's tuition cost when I coached there; I know that STA's tuition is much higher than that...
Darn it, Richard beat me to the punch.
Ditto
Richard, this past fall a girl from STA won the individual state championship in girls golf. This girl transfered from Washburn Rural in Topeka. In an article in the Topeka paper, the Wasburn Rural golf coach indicated this girl lives in Missouri. He said in the article, he was proud of her for winning, but he could not understand how a girl from Missouri should be able to compete in the Kansas tournament.
If this coach has his facts correct, and a person from a different state can compete in a state tournament for a private school, it is an advantage for the private school. Can a public school have someone from another state compete for their teams? Maybe I'm naive, but it seems like an advantage for the private schools.
And it's a ***swish*** for the rarely seen Ton Racha.
Did STA recruit the athletes mentioned above? Probably not. But do private schools have an advantage over public schools? Absolutely. To say, "The only advantage private schools enjoy is the fact they do not have defined school district boundaries" is ridiculous. That's like saying, "the only advantage private schools have is that they can make state-wide all-star teams and public schools can not." A private school's ability to draw kids from an entire metropolitan area, rather than one section of it, is exactly what makes the playing field less than equal. Would Hayden, Bishop Carrol or STA be able to compete at such a high level if they were restricted to one (school district-sized) area? I think not.
On another note, Sr. Malyer, I have no idea why you're defending this topic so wholeheartedly. To say someone is "whining" after they present a rule which you asked them to show is a juvenile way to respond to an argument. If you'd like, you can go post something like that on the Kids Forum...
That's all for me on this thread. The annual private school/public school argument bores me. If you'll excuse me, I'm going to go engage in witty banter somewhere else...
That is why some states do not allow them to compete at the state level.
Ron Tacha would know a thing or two about female golfers as well as wrestling. The last time Chapman won an NCKL wrestling title Ron was coaching and I was wrestling (not that I had much to do with it) and that was a long time ago. Northwest Kansas wrestling influence - priceless! Good to hear from you coach. Ray Arveson
This is a very interesting Topic. There are many valid points being made, but I instead of arguing about how great STA is and how much recruiting they do, wouldn’t it make more sense just to get into the wrestling room and better then them?
My two cents...
I see much too much that drags sports, in general, down for the kids. For me, politics and "self" have no place in kids sports or academics. I know the Markey boys and wish them every advantage.
I agree with coach neil. It seems misguided to argue that one oranization/schools/otherwise has gotten over on another, when the whole premise is based on activities for our youth.
Don't get me wrong. I understand the frustration caused by others "not following the guidelines" that are initially made for all to support.
But the reality is "we're doing for the kids", or should be. Whatever we can do "to enhances their long-term performance and opportunities" should be our goal.
Only when it is "not in the kids' best interest" or if "something underminds the kids' futures" should we look at each other with squented eyes.
Would anyone care if some kids transfered if Aquinas wasn't doing so well this year.
And I do believe the Markey's never attended Olathe North. They were in their program because the junior high they attended didn't have wrestling. So they never transfered.
so there is a pattern for changing schools for wrestliing....mmmmm interesting. I don't know guys...it really doesn't matter either way. They will show up and contend for the state title. It will be a good tough tourney this year!!!! Like it always is
Correct me if I am wrong but I think any child in Kansas can attend another school district within the same county or that school district must must pay the county a sum of $100 each month to the "common school fund" of the county - if they do not let a child attend a selected school within the county. Example: If you live in the Gardner Edgerton School District you could send your child to a Blue Valley, Shawnee Mission, DeSoto, or the Olathe School District School. I have attached the Kansas Statute for your review.
Please See Section 4 of Kansas Session Laws, 1876, Chapter 122, Article 5, Pages 256-257
[Amended by 1877 Law]
Statute-- District Schools Free to All Resident Children
Kansas Session Laws, 1876, Chapter 122, Article 5, Pages 256-257
[Amended by 1877 Law]
Click page number to view scanned page image.
Note: Page images are typically 30K to 35K each.
Kan. Sess. L., 1876, p. 256
ARTICLE V.--DISTRICT SCHOOLS.
SECTION 1. In each and every school district shall be taught orthography, reading, writing, English grammar, geography, and arithmetic, and such other branches as may be determined by the district board.
SEC. 2. A school month shall consist of four weeks of five days each of six hours per day.
SEC. 3. The district schools established under the provisions of this act shall at all times be equally free and accessible to all the children resident therein over five and under the age of twenty-one years, subject to such regulations as the district board in each may prescribe.
SEC. 4. Any district board refusing the admission of any children into the common schools shall forfeit to the county the sum of one hundred dollars each for every month so offending, during which such schools are taught; and all moneys forfeited to the common-school fund of the county, under this act, shall be expended by the county superintendent for the education of such children in the school district thus denied equal educational advantages: Provided, That any member of said district board who shall protest against the action of his said board in excluding any children from equal educational advantages shall not be subject to the penalty herein named.
SEC. 5. No pupil infected with any contagious disease shall be allowed to attend any common school or remain in any school room while so infected.
SEC. 6. Whenever there be not public money enough be-
Kan. Sess. L., 1876, p. 257
longing to any school district to support a public school the length of time determined at the annual meeting, or at a special meeting duly called, the district board, to meet said deficiency, may assess a tuition fee upon each scholar attending said school, the assessment to be proportioned to the number of days each pupil has been in actual attendance during the term: Provided, That no tuition fee shall be levied upon the scholars in any of the public schools of this state, in accordance with the provisions of this act, unless the entire amount of one per cent. for teachers' wages, as required by law, be first assessed upon the taxable property of said school district.
Kan. Sess. L., 1876, Title Page
STATE OF KANSAS.
THE
SESSION LAWS OF 1876,
AND MEMORIALS,
PASSED AT THE SIXTEENTH ANNUAL SESSION OF THE LEGISLATURE, COM-
MENCED AT THE STATE CAPITOL ON TUESDAY, JANUARY 11,1876,
TOGETHER WITH LIST OF STATE OFFICERS, AND MEMBERS AND OFFICERS OF BOTH
BRANCHES OF THE LEGISLATURE.
TOPEKA, KANSAS:
GEO. W. MARTIN, KANSAS PUBLISHING
It would be nice for the wrestling community to recognize excellence and to build on that- for example, Kevin Klem and Eric Akin's dad developed East Kansas into a dominant program that has produced NCAA champions; olympic alternates and high school and national kids champions. Aquinas, in the same light under the guidance of Joe Cisper and Sean McCarthy etc... have developed a new generation of outstanding kids that will keep the reputation of the kids in the area at an outstanding level. Whose program can be strong enough to dominate the next generation? It would be nice to see more effort into devloping a D1 wrestling program at KU or K state to keep our kids close by.
Milstead did not move by STA, his dad is a Kansas City Kansas Firefighter, and thus, must live within the county limits. Mr.Milstead and the Ward coach did not see eye to eye on how to coach Mark.He was 34-6 as a freshman. Jed Maime wrestled in the now defunked Ward kids club for several years, but chose STA instead..
In Missouri, a private school must count its enrollment as 1.5 to determine class placement. And I believe if it is an all-boys or all-girls school, they have to count the enrollment x2. I could be mistaken, but I think they do something like this.
An interesting concept.....
Kit, I think you are right that Missouri does something like that. At this point I don't think that would have affected Aquinas since they are 6A now anyway but it could in future years when the new St. James may eat into Aquinas' enrollment. I think that sort of class placement system would be acceptable to Aquinas, Bishop Carroll, Kapuan etc., at least for wrestling. They might be better off in a higher class.
I don't think that any private school parent though would be happy if Kansas did what WSEWC states that Oklahoma has done and not allow private schools to compete in their State playoff systems. Is that really true? As a taxpayer who supports public schools, I would not be happy with that. I cannot imagine that any private school parents would be happy with that. I would think that might encourage people to support a system where all high school athletic and other extracurricular activities were funded by the participants and not at all from tax dollars. If Neil Cisper was not allowed to compete in 6A 189, would the eventual state champ not feel that he did not beat all of the State's best 6a wrestlers?
That was interesting what Smokeycabin brought up about being able to go to any public school in your county outside your school district (EDITED REMARK AFTER ORIGINAL POST-This may not be a fact. It might be that you can only go to another school within your own school district). I did not know that. I agree with Iowa fan that locally we need to appreciate a strong program like East Kansas, Turner and Aquinas. It will make our wrestling stronger. It can be done anywhere. Aquinas Kids Club built up during the years of the East Kansas powerhouses so it is possible for a new club to do it today to and challenge these established teams in the future. It is hard because kids do want to go to strong wrestling rooms to practice. We switched our wrestling clubs five years ago to the Aquinas wrestling club because my son needed the better competition of that Kids club. Like Sean said it has not just fed Aquinas several other high schools have benefited from it with great wrestlers.
In the Kansas Statute - The live in the same county limits - that applies to public schools funded by Federal, State, and local taxes. If a public school does not follow those procedures they may lose federal, state, and/or local funding.
smokeycabin--many kansas school districts are in more than one county, therefore living within the confines of "the" county is more often NOT a requirement for residency within a school district.
It is not unusual for districts whose boundries border the state lines to have students come to their school. This if often due in rural areas to distances. In some cases it is closer to the "out of state" schools than it is to one's home district schools.
To further complicate matters, often times in the rural areas close to state boundries farmers will own land in both states. The fact that they choose to live in one state over the other does not mean that they don't pay property tax in the other!
If a school has an open admissions policy and the out-of-state students meet all other eligibility requirements they are eligible to be members of the teams of the school which they attend.
Huskerfan, when I was in Oklahoma that was the case. If it has changed, it has been in the last 8 years. There is not near the desire in Oklahoma to attend a private school as there is in Kansas. And I don't recall there being as many available.
Clarification: Bringing this up had nothing to do with envy or "hatred" towards Aquinas or its transfers or private education or Catholics. Quite the contrary, I admire what they've built completely from scratch. Lots of dedication over years of time and a blue print for any program and a credit to our great sport. I take nothing away from those folks and wouldn't mind seeing them win state as a team. Just thought that with regard to transfers, kids from outside the Sate/County/District, etc. legitimately compete for private schools and it gives them an advantage over public schools and a chance to win more state titles. I think wrestling had something to do with it in this case and its "naive" (to use someone else's word) to think otherwise. As for the point made about any Kansas kid going to any public school they want to for $100 fee, schools have the option of saying "we're full" and closing off that possiblity. I guess it could happen at a private school, too. At any rate, should be a great race for state in all classes and that's more interesting than this diatribe.
My last nickel...
Markey's attended Oregon Trail Jr HS in the Olathe North district. But they've had ties to the STA community for a long time, wrestling for STA along the way (in the kids club). They also wrestled last summer with another freestyle club.
Wrestling for STA is nothing new to those who know them, nor was there ever any sinister deception on there part.
I am part of the ON community...have no complaints...and wish them the best.
Any time a private school has measured success (Pitt Colgan in football for example) people alway bring up recruiting. Hopefully people like Huskerfan and smokeycabin can inform the uninformed in this case. Because I'm sure there are those who believe those dirty private schools are cheating. I think it's a good thing that this topic got brought up to dispell the myth that if you're a private school and have success it must be because of some dirty pool.
I'm not naive to the fact that it could and probably does happen somewhere. Thanks to smokeycabin, it appears that this can be in any school by any coach.
Booooooooooooorrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnngggggg.....
Originally posted by blitzkrieg:
Any time a private school has measured success (Pitt Colgan in football for example) people alway bring up recruiting. Hopefully people like Huskerfan and smokeycabin can inform the uninformed in this case. Because I'm sure there are those who believe those dirty private schools are cheating. I think it's a good thing that this topic got brought up to dispell the myth that if you're a private school and have success it must be because of some dirty pool.
I'm not naive to the fact that it could and probably does happen somewhere. Thanks to smokeycabin, it appears that this can be in any school by any coach.
No, we don't believe anyone is cheating at wrestling. But we do believe Colgan is cheating in football.
I have a great deal of respect for everyone involved with the STA kid's club and consider many of them good friends. Sean and I spent some time coaching with the JC Renegades and I helped at STA for a while after Chaz got tired of playing basketball. We even thought about Chaz going to high school at STA since he went to Catholic grade school up until the 6th grade. Chaz was, and still is, good friends with Neil Cisper, Andy Hurla, and several others in the program. There was no recruiting but from a wrestling standpoint, there didn't need to be. Who wouldn't want to be part of a successful team and have lots of good training partners. That's one thing Chaz has missed out on at SMNW. However, because of things like drumline, friends, etc. we all decided that he would stay at SMNW. My point is, if there is one, is you don't need to recruit if you've good something good. On another point, I tried for years to get the former coach at SMNW to let me start a kid's program and he refused. I believe the high school program is suffering right now because of that. Many of the kids that are wrestling for us have only a year or two of experience. However, watch for SMNW to improve in the future. Coach Newcomb has fully supported a kid's program and in just the 2nd year, they have around 40 wrestlers and have had some great success at novice and open tournaments. They have a number of dads helping who have wrestled in either high school or college. I'm sure all of the kids won't go to SMNW, but many will. There's not a doubt in my mind that without a kid's program, you will not have a successful high school program. And that's all I have to say about that. rhill
I was told by a St. Thomas Aquinas wrestling parent that he does contact good wrestlers from public school programs about attending St. Thomas Aquinas. Likely that is what is happening rather than the coaching staff from Aquinas making those contacts.
The public school wrestling coaches in the Johnson county area will almost all tell you that most of their good wrestlers have been contacted by a representative of St. Thomas Aquinas about attending that private school, and being catholic is not a criteria for those calls.
Having the economic means to attend a private school seems to be no barrier. Even the kids from families who's parents can least afford the cost of private schooling are contacted and can attend, scholarships are available.
This has been an irritant for the public school coaches in the Johnson county area for several years.
Time Stands Still
I guess I wasn't done because I have another point. This also has nothing to do with private versus public because there are even differences between public schools in Johnson County. How can one school have a very successful wrestler get 2 or 3 DUIs or MIPs in one school and still continue to compete and win a state title while a wrestler from another is booted because he's caught with chewing tobacco a couple of times and he has signed a "zero tolerance" contract. I'm not saying I support either side, but in my opinion, if you want to level the playing field, everyone should fall under the same guidelines in that respect. rhill
Originally posted by Time Stands Still:
I was told by a St. Thomas Aquinas wrestling parent that he does contact good wrestlers from public school programs about attending St. Thomas Aquinas. Likely that is what is happening rather than the coaching staff from Aquinas making those contacts.
The public school wrestling coaches in the Johnson county area will almost all tell you that most of their good wrestlers have been contacted by a representative of St. Thomas Aquinas about attending that private school, and being catholic is not a criteria for those calls.
Having the economic means to attend a private school seems to be no barrier. Even the kids from families who's parents can least afford the cost of private schooling are contacted and can attend, scholarships are available.
This has been an irritant for the public school coaches in the Johnson county area for several years.
Time Stands Still
If in fact what Time Stands Still states is true, a case against St. Thomas Aquinas would easily be proved. Copied below is the KSHSAA rule regarding such behavior, and insofar as no penalty has been assessed St. Thomas Aquinas, I must conclude this is another instance where Time Stands Still is simply speaking of matters he knows little or nothing about.
If this has been an irritant for Johnson County coaches, I find it difficult to believe no one has contacted KSHSAA regarding these alleged transgressions.
Rule 19
UNDUE INFLUENCE
To maintain a proper relationship between the academic purposes of schools and their activities programs, all members of the Kansas State High School Activities Association must refrain from recruitment, inducement or other forms of persuasion and undue influence which would encourage a student to enroll in or transfer to a school primarily for activity purposes.
Section 1: General Regulations (apply to grades 7-12)
Art. 1: The enrollment in a school, the transfer from one school to another, or the failure to transfer from one school to another because of undue influence by anyone connected, directly or indirectly (including alumni associations, booster groups and similar organizations) with a member school, shall cause the student to forfeit eligibility for a period not to exceed 365 days. Such conduct shall also jeopardize the school’s standing in the Association and shall result in such other action as the Executive Board deems appropriate.
Art. 2: What constitutes undue influence shall be determined on a case-by-case basis. Undue influence may, if primarily used to encourage or facilitate participation in activities, include:
a. The offer or acceptance of money, room, board, clothing or other valuable considerations to a student, or a student’s parent or guardian, including:
(1) transportation to school by any school official;
(2) provision for free or reduced rent for a parent or guardian:
(3) offer or payment of the moving expenses of a parent or guardian.
b. Waiving or reducing tuition for any student to be certified as eligible for activities, without establishing and following a plan submitted by the school and approved by the KSHSAA Executive Board which includes, but is not limited to, the following:
(1) statement of philosophy and policy concerning the reduction or waiver of tuition;
(2) procedures used to determine the qualifications for tuition waiver or reduction; and
(3) description of how the waiving or reducing of tuition is equally available and applied to students in similar circumstances.
c. The payment of tuition by someone other than a student’s immediate family or a financial aid program not approved by the Executive Board.
d. The offer or acceptance of remuneration for work in excess of the amount regularly paid for such service.
e. The offer or acceptance of school privileges or considerations not normally granted to other students.
f. Any inducement to get parent, guardian or student to change residence for activity purposes.
g. The contacting of a student(s) in another school by any person connected, directly or indirectly, with a member school (including alumni associations, booster groups or similar organizations), and attempting to persuade or induce that student(s), primarily for activity purposes, to attend the inducer’s school.
h. The attempt by any person connected, directly or indirectly, with a member school (including alumni associations, booster groups or similar organizations) to persuade or induce a student, primarily for activity purposes, to remain a student in the inducer’s school, when a bona fide change of residence has occurred.
Private schools seem to have some luck in the fact that they are usually outstanding at something. Whether it be football or wrestling- even basketball, gives them the upper hand when it comes time for kids to choose their school. I am from a smaller school that is struggling to keep it alive. I have often wondered if I would send my son somewhere else if he wanted to be a wrestler. So its not just private schools, but all great programs will drawl kids
I second Dingbat's statement. This is Booooooooooooorrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnngggggg.....
Richard,
Time Stands Still probably knows exactly what he is talking about. I too have had a St. Thomas Aquinas parent say nearly the same thing to me.
The rule states those that are directly or indirectly associated with the school. I don't know whether that gets too fuzzy for the activity association to act when parents acting independently are involved, but there are certainly are some ethical problems.
As a former coach I do not know how many of my best wrestlers were actually contacted, but I can name one and that was confirmed by his parents. He was not new to my program either, he was going to be a junior.
Whether these are provable offenses or just provable ethical problems, I am not sure. But they are an area of concern.
Gary Ulmer
I am not sure that it would be fair to hold a school accountable for one of its wrestler's parents suggesting to another school's parent that they should consider having their child transfer to their child's high school. I think you could if you could prove the high school coach or someone directly affiliated with the school was asking his wrestlers parents to do that for them.
I have been told that smokeycabin's interpretation of the Kansas statute that he sited may be wrong about a public school student being able to transfer to any school in the county. The person told me that after reading that post that it seemed to be saying you could go to any school within your own school district and if the school did not accept you than you had it had to pay the county. So if you live in the Shawnee Mission school district, you could go to say SM East, West, North etc, but not an Olathe or Blue Valley school district school. Perhaps someone could clarify that who knows for sure.
In the SMSD you can attend any school as long as that school is not full. I think the only closed HS is SME.
the bottem line in this post is do private schools have an advantage? and yes they do.if winfield and ark city were able to pick and chose there teams from a county full of wrestlers they would be unbeatable. and as far as fare for holding a school accountable for parants recruting athletes, if they did it would stop this crap of private schools recruting and we wouldnt see posts like this one.
number two, you said if Winfield and Ark City were able to pick and choose their teams from a county full of wrestlers they would be unbeatable. Aquinas did not pick and choose these transfers. They chose Aquinas.
When your saying to hold a school accountable for parents recruiting athletes I agree with that whether it was a public or private school involved in the recruiting. But that would depend on what the ruling board would determine to be recruiting. If any coach, school official, booster club, or other organization officially associated with a school encourages a parent to approach another wrestler's parent with promises of some financial or other type of beneficial award for the wrestler or his family then that in my opinion would be recruiting. But if say a parent from School 1 is talking to a parent from School 2 at a tournament and tells them they would love to see the wrestler from School 2 on School 1's team, then personally I don't think that is punishable recruiting violation. Even in this scenario if School 1 parent tells School 2 parent that there is financial aid available, I still would not see that as a punishable recruiting violation. It is a well known fact that financial aid can be applied for at most private schools for families that qualify.
I agree that it is advantage for private schools that they can draw from a wider metropolitan area than public schools. In spite of this you have dominant public school athletic programs like in our area the Olathe North football program and certainly the Shawnee Mission Northwest boys and girls cross country programs. Somehow these programs have been able to overcome this private school advantage over a very long period of time and they do not seem to be slowly down either.
Originally posted by Gary Ulmer:
Richard,
Time Stands Still probably knows exactly what he is talking about. I too have had a St. Thomas Aquinas parent say nearly the same thing to me.
The rule states those that are directly or indirectly associated with the school. I don't know whether that gets too fuzzy for the activity association to act when parents acting independently are involved, but there are certainly are some ethical problems.
As a former coach I do not know how many of my best wrestlers were actually contacted, but I can name one and that was confirmed by his parents. He was not new to my program either, he was going to be a junior.
Whether these are provable offenses or just provable ethical problems, I am not sure. But they are an area of concern.
Gary Ulmer
Coach Ulmer:
What Time Stands Still stated was "I was told by a St. Thomas Aquinas wrestling parent that he does contact good wrestlers from public school programs about attending St. Thomas Aquinas."
If one parent is contacting multiple families or wrestlers from public schools, this is an easily provable incident, and quite likely an activity the KSHSAA would be interested in to, at the very least, inform St. Thomas Aquinas officials this behavior is unacceptable.
Further, Time states "The public school wrestling coaches in the Johnson county area will almost all tell you that most of their good wrestlers have been contacted by a representative of St. Thomas Aquinas".
I do not believe Time is in a position to speak for all public high school coaches in Johnson County. Time states the contact was made by a "representative of St. Thomas Aquinas", and again this type of activity, if true, is easily confirmed. If a complaint were lodged regarding a representative from St. Thomas Aquinas directly contacting athletes from other schools, KSHSAA absolutely would investigate, and based on the findings, would take action.
I can assure you this type of activity is prevalent at public schools as well and is not relegated to athletics alone. Public school parents and teachers also compete and encourage students who may be attending another district high schools feeder school to attend their high school for athletic and academic purposes. High Schools take great pride, and do not hesitate to advertise, the number of National Merit Scholars at their school.
Lastly, at this years Kapaun Tournament, a team from out of county participated and I recognized two of the athletes from the Catholic Parish I attend. I did ask the parents of these two athletes why the kids were not attending Kapaun. I mentioned nothing regarding athletics, however I believe it was my responsibility to advocate for Catholic education to Catholic parents whose children do not attend Catholic schools.
"being catholic is not a criteria for those calls."
A former STA basketball standout from the mid-90s was Baptist. He was an outstanding guy, good student, involved in STUCO and numerous other activities and quite a roll model student. But, he also was a three-year starter on the basketball team. Always seemed a bit interesting.
About two percent of the STA enrollment isn't Catholic. It would be interesting to see how many of those individuals are athletes.
Also, from a recruiting standpoint, when I was playing football in eighth grade, some Rockhurst freshman/sophomore football coaches contacted my grade school football coach after a game and asked him to try to talk me into going to Rockhurst. My coach wouldn't do it, despite having coached numerous other youths who went on to be standouts at Rockhurst. Coach told me about this during my freshman year of high school, because he wanted me to make a decision for myself.
Anyway, that's just some food for thought.
Either way, with regards to the STA program, they have done an outstanding job building their youth program during the past decade and the high school program has reaped the benefits year after year. They've done an outstanding job building a championship-caliber program. I have no idea if they recruit or not, but the kids there are well coached and well educated.
I think there is a different set of standards at work with a private school. For example Shawnee Mission schools have a zero tolerance for drug and alcohol use. If a Shawnee Mission athlete violates the rule he is out period, across the board, no exceptions. The coach has no control, it is policy. I think that coaches at private schools may have more latitude to tailor rules to individuals. I know in the past a private school was very lienent with one of their best wrestlers when he was caught using alcohol. I would guess that the coach has the same control over other issues such as cutting weight, and academics etc. I know of wrestlers who perceive there to be an unfair advantage and though willing to compete during the regular season, resent it come time for Regional and State tournaments. I suppose that may be an issue contributing to Oklahoma's policy. I think that most parents do their best to provide their children with the greatest possible enviornment to succeed. Some parent's top priority may be academics, or ethics while anothers are sports, but in all of these scenarios private schools have alot to offer. What is best for the kids going to school and wrestling is what is important. Private schools operate independently from public schools, and as such are not financed or operated by local authority or government.I am sure most of their patrons see this as an advantage for their kids. Is it too unfair? Probably not, but I think all schools should maintain the highest possible standards, and compete under the same rules, especially when the kids are all rivals, striving for the same prize. I don't however blame the parents for doing what they feel is best for their kids.
Originally posted by Mike R.:
I would guess that the coach has the same control over other issues such as cutting weight, and academics etc.
The coach at a private school must follow the same KSHSAA rules and regulations regarding weight control and academic eligibility as do coaches at public schools.
I agree STA has a terrific kids club. I have been
around the sport for several years now and definately know and understand the components that
make up a quality kids club. My son has visited
this club several times and has been to a few of
STA's summer clinics. I am not surprised this program is doing well today. It is funny several
have mentioned being approached by STA parents etc about coming to STA. My son has been approached many times, by parents and even the coach. The comment is nothing more than "You are a good wrestler, you really should consider coming to Aquinas" Our standard response has always been, well we are not Catholic. "The Acquinas response everytime has been. "Well no one is perfect."
Always said with a smile. So is this really recruiting? The most valid point I have read in this forum is the point about pulling kids from the entire metro. That does make a huge difference. I noticed someone mentioned this issue in reference to Oklahoma, in that private schools are not able to compete in the state tournament. I used to live in Oklahoma. In fact
I had two nephews at Jenks, High School,(just south of Tulsa, OK) Jenks won the state football championship 6 years running. It was always interesting that they had very talented inter-city kids on their rosters. One in particular comes to mind is the running back Kejuan Jones, that is now
a running back for OU. Kejuan, was a transfer from North Tulsa. I never really understood how that worked. So maybe there is a little unfairness
in being able to pull from a metro area.
Mamabear10,
You are talking about a casual conversation that is innocent enough.
The concern comes with the calling of high school kids in and out of the season to attend STA. Again I had a STA parent, from the wrestling team, telling me of having called athletes from a given high school to encourage them to attend STA the following year.
These athletes had already wrestled for another high school, were established good wrestlers in that public high school, and were being contacted by a parent about attending a private school. Color it however you want I still have problems with the ethics behind it. This is a concern that transends beyond just pulling kids from the entire metro.
Time Stands Still
correct me if im wrong but isnt olathe norths 119 a transfer from another school. and i think he is a transfer from another olathe public middle school, as were the aquinas kids. Im sure he was in touch with members of the north staff. im sure there was a phone conversation. also all 3 transfers are of the catholic families.
With over 200,000 Catholics in the Archdiocese of Kansas City in Kansas… I would hope that STA could field a wrestling team. I’m sure every kid wants to go to a parochial school to wrestle. “Mom, Dad I want to go to STA when I grow up they have a great wrestling team”. Give me a break.
And you'd think Miege and B-Ward could too. Not the case. Guess some of the reasons stated above like the success of their kids club and the excellent coaching staff mean very little when it comes to STA. No, it's gotta be cheating. Whatever helps you sleep at night.
Actually, there is a conference of private catholic high schools in the KC Metro. They divide up which sports programs will be successful and distribute the athletes accordingly.
Miege - Mens Basketball
Rockhurst - Football
Aquinas - Wrestling
Soccer
Track
Bishop Ward - Baseball
These sports they had too many kids so they split them up -
- Womens Volleyball and Womens Basketball were shared with Miege and Aquinas
- Mens Basketball was shared with Miege and Rockhurst
You guys busted them. It's the REAL reason Aquinas is ranked #1. Sure they haven't done anything at state, but just in case they DO win it all, you have a patented excuse.
:rolleyes:
Okay, I've read enough! This topic has gotten so out of hand. STA is in my opinion, is the best kids club in Kansas City. I've personally been part of this group for seven years now and you can not find a better group of coaches: Sean Mc Carthy, Joe Cisper and Mark Roos and all the numerous others. Sharon Henes, the best team manager around and the many awesome families that we have been so blessed to get to know whether Catholic or not( and it is a very diverse group). We've cheered each other on to individual victories and triumphed as a team with 12 & 14 under team wins. All along the way, there have been many high fives and lots of hugs from the coaches when the little ones lose. We are for the most part a well-mannered group of fans and take pride in that. I think that it is a compliment to the club that we attract the most experienced wrestlers, to even the first year novice ones to our club. Our practices are filled to the max and every fall we just can't believe that the wrestling room can hold them all, but it does and the boys keep learning. It is sad every spring when we graduate another group of wonderful boys out of the club, knowing that the only contact we may ever have with them again will be a listing in the sports section updating us of their progress at the various high schools that they now attend. And I'm sure the coaches would love to be able to watch all of them compete in those golden STA headgear, but the reality is, there's not enough pairs to go around. So I have no doubt that Joe, Sean and Mark, all derive some satisfaction in knowing that there is another whole generation of boys who will grow up loving the sport of wrestling because these men gave so much of themselves to build STA to what it is today. And yes, that is why Aquinas has developed into such a great program. And we are proud to be a part of the STA family and I'm sorry that you will never be able to understand.
By the way, you left out O'Hara High School in that secret society of KC Catholic schools, they've got the #1 Basketball recruit in the city and both O'Hara's Varsity Basketball & Soccer teams beat Rockhurst this year. So there's at least one more Catholic school out there to contend with and O'Hara does it with only 500 students!
The youth club is something you can't take away from STA, but that alone doesn't win a title for them. It's the transfers that make the difference. Without these three good kids transferring in this season, I don't believe STA has a shot at winning the team title. STA fans and irritated Catholics on this board, this criticism is deserved. If STA wins by a margin that's greater than what the tranfers score at state then the critics will be silenced. To the STA supporters on this board, one way to prove STA doesn't have an unfair advantage would be to sight another example in which a school benefited from such a strange coincidence of multiple kids (ranked wrestlers) transferring to one place in one year? Maybe this is more commonplace than some would think and there's a pattern. Has Manhattan, Goddard, Maize or Hutch benefitted from such a wellspring of good fortune? Maybe a school got a kid here or there, but folks three really good wrestlers in one season who have bearing on the outcome of the 6A state team title is worth this discussion and you should be able to take a little criticism my thin-skinned Catholic friends. A public school (who has a long history of recruiting wrestlers) benefited from a couple of recent transfers. The Moore twins left Rockhurst (a catholic school) to go to Oak Grove (public)last year in Missouri. But, an on the ball MSHAA investigated the situation and made them sit a full year. They appealed and lost. I'll sight one more example of a situation like STA's---Bishop Meige, a Catholic school, won state (a few times) when Aiken, Medena boys and others decided to drive a long way to join a private school with a wrestling club. It is an advantage over the rest of the field when students switch school for athletic reasons. I'm not saying STA cheated, but it would seem that these kids jumped horses mid-stream to help their wrestling careers and to be part of building a championship team. If STA wins state by a margin that's larger than the points these transfers score at state, then the critics can shut up and let's give STA its dues. If not it will continue to be a question.
So IF STA wins state. Do you think there should be an asterisk by their name? For the record, only one kids transferred from another High School. That student athlete was Milstead. The other two (Markey's) never attended another HS prior to Aquinas. Therefore, this influx of transfers everyone says is not true. Also, Milstead had to sit out a semester of varsity athletics. He did not begin competing until after the 1st semester was over.
My next question is, what would any other coach have done if they were in Parks' place? If the Manhatten or Hutch coach for example were to hear of any kid transferring with decent talent they would welcome them with open arms. I doubt any coach would say, "sorry, we don't to illegitamize our title run".
Will the addition of the Markey's and Milstead help Aquinas' chance at a state title? Absolutly. And so will the 112 pounder (Henes I believe) as a freshman. There is no difference.
No, the real gripe you guys have is the fact that a team other than Manhatten, Hutchison, Emporia, or Goddard is vying for the team title. So rather than accept it, you have to try and tear it down. I hate to tell you this, but from the make up of this team, they are going to be around for a while. You're gonna have to learn to accept it.
Markey's wrestled for Olathe North last season, Blitzkrieg. And you have to know that. Don't split hairs and try to rationalize it away. No problem accepting it, as long as you can handle a little criticism.
The Markeys wrestled for Olathe North, but they were junior high students. They did not attend Olathe North as students. The way the Olathe school system works, the only link to the high school is for sports, and possibly music, debate, etc., but I am not sure on that. I believe this is allowed so that 9th graders with the ability and talent to compete on a Jr. Varsity or Varsity team are not penalized unfairly in comparison to most districts, where 9th graders are freshmen attending the high school. Academically, Olathe 9th graders are junior high students. They have to change to another school after their freshman year no matter what, so they are not considered transfers.
I believe it is also possible for an Olathe 9th grader to compete on an Olathe high school team and still attend and compete for a different Olathe team as a sophomore without penalty, as again, they are not considered transfers. I think that there is at least one very talented wrestler that falls into this situation competing this year as well.
I don’t think that anybody from Manhattan really cares that STA has the top team in 6a. I would be willing to guess that most of the complaints come from the people in the Metro area. These are the schools that are affected by the so-called allegations. The young men from Manhattan will be in Wichita ready to defend their title. So to say that we better be willing to accept that there is a new power in the classification… not without a fight. We at Manhattan know what it is to be the underdog and we relish the challenge for years to come. The kids still have to wrestle to bring it home. And lights are bright in the Coliseum.
Which is why it's hillarious that everyone is complaining about Aquinas NOW. They have the #1 ranking, which doesn't mean squat. (Although the have beatin Hutch and Goddard head to head.) They also have new kids from last years team that are ranked, big deal.
So why all the accusations? Simple, insecure people have to tear down a team that is getting a lot of attention thus far. It's unfounded. Besides beating Hutch, Goddard, and Turner, they haven't done anything more. State will be their true test. I said at the beginning of the season, that if Aquinas could get in the top 3 it will be a successful season. I still think that's the case. I think they have a shot at the title depending on the seeding and such.
But to point fingers at Aquinas for things in which you know NOTHING, absolutly nothing about is plain ignorance and proof of your own insecurites. Your complaint is that a private school kid transfered to another private school. That's it! Do you see how stupid this is? Then it gets to recruiting and that a rogue parent (still unfounded) alledgedly called another parent or two.
If you have any proof of wrong doing report it. You won't, because you have nothing. However, if you feel your case is worthy, here is the contact information:
The Kansas State High School Activities Association
Mailing Address: P.O. Box 495,
Topeka, KS 66601-0495
Physical Address: 601 SW Commerce Place,
Topeka, KS 66615
PHONE: (785) 273-5329
FAX: (785) 271-0236
You can't whine about the Markeys wrestling for Olathe North last year before going to another high school because stuff like that seems to happen in the Olathe school district. In fact, Adam Almaguer wrestled for Olathe South last year only to go to Olathe North this year.
But hey, Olathe North probably recruited him there to reload, right?
LancerM
Member
Member # 1607
posted February 11, 2005 05:00 PM
------------------------------
You can't whine about the Markeys wrestling for Olathe North last year before going to another high school because stuff like that seems to happen in the Olathe school district. In fact, Adam Almaguer wrestled for Olathe South last year only to go to Olathe North this year.
But hey, Olathe North probably recruited him there to reload, right?
------------------------------
Certain arguments are completely irrelevant when being discussed towards the topic at hand. As a coach for Olathe North, I can assure you that no one within the Olathe North staff or parents group had any say in the fact that Adam's father moved residence within the Olathe North boundries during the summer. It was no different than getting a super move-in from another state, except it was a kid who we had already seen quite a bit yet personally knew very little about him prior to this season starting. Having Adam on board is a wonderful addition to the team, but in no way was it a recruiting attempt to get Adams father to change residence. We respect greatly what coach Mesa and his staff do at Olathe South, and I believe that they have a similiar respect for what we are building at North. Also note, they gained our 103lb wrestler Zach Deaton who is currently ranked in 6A.
As for the Markey boys, it was wonderful working with them last year and helping them grow into better young men as well as better wrestlers. We wish them nothing but the best in their careers wherever they are wrestling and obviously miss what they brought to our team last year. But as far as the "drama" created by this entire line of discussion- when it is all said and done we are mostly concerned with the betterment of youth athletics and the ethical behavior of schools doing what is right for the kids. Having Paul and Scott in the middle of this discussion is not fair for those two wonderful sophomore boys because the decisions made were beyond their control. They should be left alone to wrestle and enjoy their sport, not be put on the spot in the middle of this complete "who is right or wrong" fiasco. That should be left for the State Athletics Association to determine. Leave the Markey family alone.
Their opportunity to wrestle for quality coaches, be it two former Metro Classic, Senior National Team, and Cadet National Team Coaches here at Olathe North or the great coaching staff at Aquinas is only going to help them become marketable college prospects in due time. We wish them nothing but the best and care for them very much.
Back to your kids club. Nobody ever said STA doesnt have a great kids club...but tell us, how does it feel when you support the kids club, your children wrestle for the kids club, then when it comes time for High school, you are replaced due to,"building a state champion team",or"recruiting". I seem to remember MOST of STAs varsity line-up wrestled for other kids teams.(Olathe South, Olathe,KCK, and so on) If it is truelly the education that these parents are transfering for, I say great move, but honestly the public will never know. It would be interestling to see the ratio of transfers that do not play sports verses the transfers that are book worms.
PARKWAYRED--I don’t think that anybody from Manhattan really cares that STA has the top team in 6a. I would be willing to guess that most of the complaints come from the people in the Metro area. These are the schools that are affected by the so-called allegations. The young men from Manhattan will be in Wichita ready to defend their title. So to say that we better be willing to accept that there is a new power in the classification… not without a fight. We at Manhattan know what it is to be the underdog and we relish the challenge for years to come. The kids still have to wrestle to bring it home. And lights are bright in the Coliseum.
BOACH -That is the greatest post I have ever seen! You the man baby!
When I grow up I wanna be like Parkwayred
I was being sarcastic Coach DeYoe, I know you didn't do anything wrong with Adam. I'd talked with him last year about it so I knew why he was going there and everything. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
So did we have find out who gutwrench01 was? I heard it was my high school coach, Coach Sonderegger, but that kind of fizzled out. I'm curious as to who it was.
I don't know why everyone is all upset about this St Thomas has won state how many times you guys are talking like the win it every year in a very watered down 6a so I don't know why we are even talking about this, if they want to get soft catholic kids then let them do it.
This is a good point because when I was in high school we had a private school named Maur Hill which brought in kids from all over the world and if memory serves me right they won the 4a state football championship when I was a freshman doing just what was implied by the starter of this post. You can put spins on "why" the kids go to schools like this but from experience the education is not the factor its about "winning and getting noticed." Parents who push excelling at sports is all that matters, and this trend is growing in kids wrestling at a large rate. Take the kids state wrestling championships for example how many parents are getting into fights at state. The last few years we have had some of the teams with this attitude get caught making conterfiet floor passes at state.
okay. i want to point out that ive been going to bishop carroll for 3 years, ill be a senior. i havent seen recruiting once. if a high school coach feels that he needs to win so badly and doesnt trust his coaching skills, and feels that he doesnt have any talent. thats just purely wrong. ive been going to catholic schools for 13 years (including this year). so here's is a little advice for you, before you start judging teams that are GOOD, look into their students/wrestlers backgrounds and see what religion they are. plus there can be a number of reasons they are going to a privite school. academics are usually better, dicipline is better, most sports are not. the biggest decline of all of these pluses is the price. if a parent wants to send their child to a cathlic *EXPENSIVE school because of a sport, i say let them, although its not right. for my case, the reason bishop carroll is so good is because of the QUALITY of coaches and the feeling of unity in the wrestling room.
leave sta alone