I was just informed that the KSHSAA is looking at changing the place wrere State Wrestling Tournament will be held for the 2003-04. I really think that coaches need to discuss this at their Regional Tournament meeting this topic. What I have been told is that the KSHSAA is looking at putting 6A State Tournament at some large High School, and 4A and 5A together in some other venue. I think that they want to leave 1-3A at Hays. But what I was told is the State wants to do what the KWCA recommends. Coaches if you want to see a change or if you like the way it is now you need to speak up now.
I am not a coach but do have an opinion on this issue. Making the tournament a lesser event I think belittles the significance of the accomplishment.Please think about how hard a wrestlers works to make it to an arena type event.
It is my understanding the reason for moving has more to do with Sedgwick County playing hard ball in negotiations for the facility. As some of you are aware the pro sports teams also utilize the same facility and they would rather subsidize them than bring millions of dollars into the local economy via wrestling fans and teams. If you would like to see the tournament remain in Wichita I would recommend that all coaches and clubs in Sedgwick Co. contact their local representatives and voice their displeasure.
Why not hold state at Kansas State University? Ample hotel room, 2 large scale arenas, great burrito place, et cetera...
I think one of the problems with that is who is going to put it on. What I have seen is they like to have 4A school work on the 4A and 5a working on the 5A state tournament. This is just what I have been told.
The best thing that will ever happen is to get the tourney out of that cold, dark, dirty, rude, barn. I have never seen anyplace as inhospitable as that building and the people that worked for it and I am not talking about the state workers, rather the people who run the building. GOOD RIDENCE and as for where else, ANYWHERE. Salina, Manhatten, Topeka, anywhere in Wichita but there. I think it is great. Maybe they can go somewhere that can clean a bathroom or turn on their scoreboard to run the team scores.
No other facility in KS is large enough to host all three classes so if you go elsewhere you're going to have to break them up.
I used to coach at a 2A school and now coach at a 4A school and I would love to see our 4A tourney stand alone at its own site like the 3-2-1A tourney at FHSU.
I "experienced" the big three classes state tourney in Wichita and hated every minute of it. The staff is terrible, the arena is worse, and it just didn't seem like State to me, comparing it in my mind all weekend to state at FHSU. Its just too much at ot one place and will be better if move out of Wichita, but we need to break this up into 3 sites or it will continue to feel like a big cluster where nobody cares about your team and your kids.
Lets go 4A by itself in SALINA. 5A and 6A can do whatever they want, but put US in Salina...
Topeka is by far large enough for it. The big arena there would have no problem with it and there is a vast amount of hotel space in Topeka due to the government needs. No farther for any of those Wichita schools than it has been for us back here all these years.
Lets not do 4A in Salina. Too small. I would like a metro area large enough to accomodate interest other than just wrestling. Other family members travel to these events and enjoy other activities. Topeka, Wichita and Kansas City are the only cities big enough to host the event properly. I enjoy the three classes together also. I think seeing the best wrestlers in the state is what its all about regardless of size of class.
I care about my wrestlers and my team and they are not treated like they should be in Wichita. I want there to be one Championship match going on at one time and the entire arena watching. And wouldn't it be nice to have a board of team standing in the arena? As a coach, I don't even get a chance to see what is going on in the 5A or 6A part of the arena and honestly, I'm so wrapped up in what is going on in the 4A brackets and with my team, that I wouldn't miss 5A and 6A if they were gone.
Anyone who doesn't think this would be better needs to go to the 3-2-1A tourney once and you will see what I mean.
I think that each class should be held at a different site. I think that there should be 4 sites to rotate upon between the classes that way everyone would have to travel.
For example:
2004
321A Hays
4A Kansas City
5A Salina / Topeka (which ever location is better)
6A Wichita
2005
321A Wichita
4A Hays
5A Kansas City
6A Salina / Topeka
and so on
thats and idea, but from what i am hearing everyone wants out of wichita and your not going to get the 321A coaches from Hays.
My other question for you on that is why would 6A want to go out to hays where everyone would have to stay in hotels? with 321A a large number of schools are out west and can go home over night.
The Rotation idea is good for 4A, 5A, and 6A but keep 321A in Hays. I agree that Kansas State would be a good place betweeen Ahearn Fieldhouse and Bramlage Coliseum.
i know alot of the smaller schools out west would object but if all the state tournys were in the overland park convention center. all of them could fit, and there are a million hotels and places to eat near by. if not all classes maybe just 6A, when you consider so many of the 6A schools are in metro area it wouldn't be that bad.
The rumor mill says that Blue Valley West has expressed interest to host the 6A tournament individually.
The Powers that Be (which I believe consist of Vince Russo, Jeff Jarrett, and Miss Hancock) would then have the 4A/5A cohosted at the same venue. That venue would most likely be wherever the Powers that Be received the best deal on an arena space.
3A would be left alone in Hays.
Then again why don't we take this opportunity to combine into two or three classes and reorganize KS wrestling appropriately....making wrestling a pinacle event in this state.
Wherever the move the Powers that Be must do a better job of generating marketing/media coverage to raise the sports profile. Title IX is killing wrestling on a collegiate level and lack of marketing and promotion is killing wrestling on a Kansas high school level.
It would be ridiculous to move the 6A tournament to a high school gym, even one the size of BV West. The 6A/5A in Topeka and 4A in Salina plan (with hands off 3-2-1A in Hays) makes the most sense by far, and as a coach, that will be what I will urge at Regionals. And Salina would be more than adequate in seating and hotels for 4A.
I would be in favor of 5A in Salina.
I would be all for having 4A & 5A in Salina. I think the Bicenter would have sufficient space. I would guess table workers, etc would be easy to come by with good fan support from several nearby schools (Abilene, Concordia, Clay Center, Salina South, Salina Central, & McPherson) all within an hour. Salina has added several hotels in recent years. Hosting the tournament is a huge undertaking, but I think it is very feasible.
I would like to see:
6A - 32 teams & 5A - 32 teams go to TOPEKA EXPOCENTRE
4A - 61 teams go to SALINA BICENTENIAL CENTER
3A,2A,1A - 72 teams stay at FORT HAYS STATE
I definitely think breaking the States up is a great idea. It may not be as great for recruiters/spectators, but it would be much better for the Wrestlers. I grew up going to Hays and the atmosphere is unbelievable. I have coached at Wichita and it is very anticlimatic. The kids deserve to be in the spotlight, and with 3 tournaments going on at the same time that is impossible. Anyone who wants to see how it should be done should take a trip out to Hays. Talk about inspiring kids to wrestle, that is the best way I know of.
Nickel's worth:
3-1A: Fort Hays
4A:Manhattan (KSU)
5: Salina
6A:Topeka
Alternative: Combine 5-6A at Topeka
(Nothing against Salina, don't know hotel situation.)
No way. Keep 4A/5A/6A together. It's great to see your competition from all around the state, not just one class. If it wasn't all at the same site, no one in 5A or 6A would know how good Earl Jones was, and no one in 4A would have ever seen Dyer, or Carrol get upset by Hemmerling. I agree that Wichita probably isn't the greatest place, but if that's the only way to keep all three together, by all means do it. Topeka and Manhattan are also great places to hold it, there's plenty of hotel accomodations and tasty restaurants for all to eat. Just don't split us up, and ESPECIALLY don't send us to a high school. State would lose a lot of its luster if it was at just another high school.
Plus, if state was in Manhattan, then everyone could experience our town's funny jokes!
The sad thing is that usually at 456A you don't get to see people from other classes cuz you're always watching your teammates or just people from your class wrestle. I was there last year and I didn't see any matches from other classes at all. Everyone watched Hoover at least once, I think, but that's about it.
It's suprising reading this forum how few people are fans of Kansas wrestling as a whole. If you only sit and watch one class in Wichita, you don't know what you're missing. Why in the world would you trade the excitement of 3 state tournaments in one arena for a high school gym? Talk about anticlimactic. Prant's point is well-taken. We have outstanding athletes from all different classes in the state and no one will see many of the great matches if state is split up. Keep 4/5/6A together and start working on the real issue--a dual state tournament.
Well said, Carolina. Kansas is the land of seperation when it comes to State tournaments, and as a non-native, I have always found that strange. Most other states have their tournaments in one large location and while it can tend to be kind of crazy at times, it is exciting and part of thrill of the sport.
But — for better or worse — it is part of the tradition here in Kansas and it always will be. Change does not come easy.
I think that we should keep them all togethor. Really I think that the only place that could handle this would be Topeka. I don not know how well they treat the kids state tourney but I personally have not heard of any complaints. Correct me if I am wrong but I believe they have also hosted the Kids Folkstyle Nationals there as well. Also back in the day...they hosted the the final Olympic Freestyle Qualifier Tournament. I think this shows a fairly strong commitment to Kansas Wrestling and even some national wrestling. I my small humble opinion I also think that running a state tournament in a gym is a joke. I believe that it would take away for the accomplishments of all the wrestlers involved. I also do not believe that moving the tournament to Manhattan is the solution either. You would still have to split the tournament up and again would take away the magnatude away from the tournament. Plus, And I am not trying to step on anybodies toes here, what has Kansas State done for Kansas Wrestling? Support the people that support you. JUST THOUGHTS! Peace.
Having the three state tournaments at one site is not a "big event" or a glorifying experience, it is a a big clustered joke. I do not think this is badmouthing wrestling in other classes, but as a coach, I don't even get a chance to see any of the 5A and 6A tourneys. Our coaching staff is focused on our kids and the 4A tourney and trying to win a state trophy.
Bottom line is--the 4A tourney by itself is better for 4A teams and wrestlers and that is what I care about. What we get to "experience" with the three classes together is not wrestling heaven, it is a whole lot more like hell. The problem is it is just too much at one place for the people running the tourney to treat everyone like they deserve to be treated at STATE.
RJW I respect your opinion, and I agree with some of your comments, but I could not disagree with splitting up classes more. It is hard to get around and watch many other matches, yes, but there is time to see some, especially if they are exciting match ups. In a small high school gym you would have no chance to see any matches from other classes, neither would any wrestlers or fans. You also have to keep the big picture in mind as coaches aren't the only ones there. The fans, parents, and wrestlers are all part of the experience as well. There will always be difficulties with such large events, but with some thought and preparation and input from coaches, they can be overcome. I would rather put up with some headaches to keep the event large, prestigious, and exciting than be in one small gym where it would seem just like another tournament. Talk to some coaches from other states who have done it both ways. Everyone I have ever talked to, who now have their state tourney in one venue all have said it is the best thing they have done.
RJW:
As a native of one of those places that has a one-site State tournament, I have to disagree that one like that can't be run well. Iowa's tournament is spread over three days on eight mats, each class wrestles seperately (1A's, followed by 2As, followed by 3As every round), everyone has the opportunity to see everyone else wrestle and it's recognized as the best-run, and most media and fan friendly of all of the state tournaments in Iowa, including basketball.
The problems in Wichita are not from the format; they are from poor facilities cooperation more than anything else. Find a better facility with better management and this problem may not be as extensive.
Splitting the tourneys up doesn't mean they will be held in a small gym. 321A is on its own and held in an arena and is a very prestigious event. As someone who wrestled and coached at a 2A school for awhile, I would say the event for 321A seems more prestigious than the event for 456A because everyone in the entire arena is focused on one thing. Fans can easily keep a bracket and the team scores are always posted and everyone is there for ONE thing and focused on that one thing. The workers can accodimate coaches, wrestlers, and fans appropriately, because it is not a big cluster. I bet you couldn't force a 321A fan, parent, coach, or wrestler to put up with the mess we 4A fans, coaches, parents, and wreslters put up with at Wichita.
You just can't imagine how awesome the finals are when everyone in the entire arena is watching the same match. It is electric! And people even watch the awards presentations and know the team scores that are constatnly updated. It is not just another tourney and you can tell.
I agree with you about Hays— it is a great format.
All I was saying was that I don't think you can necessarily dismiss multi-class tournaments just because of what has happened at Wichita. They can work and work well, provided the right people run them in the right place.
tkdwn42:
I can't speak for Iowa, but I know that thus far Kansas has been unable to pull it off and our efforts have been poor. I don't think ours has ever been fan, media, or wrestler friendly. I'm sure a big part of it is the site, but I now our coaching staff and a lot of the coaching staffs we talk are just tired of the mess.
Now is a good time to cut back on the classifications. A state the size of ours needs only two classes for wrestling.
At least that way, a state title would be meaningful! Cal. has only one state champion and they have over 20 mil. poeple!! PA has only two I think and they have 14 mil.
Have one state championship event with the two classes - hold it in Topeka - it'd be a brawl!
Hey for all of you that think it is so good to split it up, we did that for about thirty years in this state. We been wrestling here for a long time you know. I cannot imagine why a person wouldnt want to see three state championships for the price of one. I think it is the greatest thing that has happened to wrestling here. A crowd of seven or eight thousand for the finals? Try getting that crowd at Oakley or Colby or Junction City, Topeka, or any other place we used to go to wrestle the state tourney. Its a blast to go together the kids absolutely love it. Never saw a wrestler that wanted it split up.
Why talk to coaches in other states about holding a single state tournament in a single venue, when we can talk to our own coaches and wrestlers that attend the 321A tournament in Hays? That is a single tournament in a single venue. Odd that no one wants to change that? Seems to me they like what they have. I have wrestled in Hays and coached in Wichita. The Hays experience is so much better for wrestlers, coaches, and fans. Bottom line is the tournament in Wichita is not ran properly. My biggest pet peeves are the ice-cold mats, no posting of the team scores, coaches paying for the "hospitality room", the caotic weigh-ins, and the un-friendly mob squad. Therefore, Wichita is out. And since no other facility in the state can house 4A-5A-6A together, we must split up. My vote will be for 4A in Salina all by ourselves.
Westfahl,
I was a wrestler and I want it split up.
Coach Wink and Coach JT are right on.
I agree the 4 5 6A site don't get me wrong. I was pissed last year when we were not allowed to bring food in for our wrestlers who had just waited an hour to weigh in and had no where to go to eat. Never mind the fact that there are only about 3 restauraunts within 15 miles and there was no food being sold at that time anyway. Remember that 3-2-1A is 3 classes combined into 1. It is a great run tourney because it is at a great site in a great town run by the Fort Hays wrestling team. I think that tournament would be hard to duplicate for one of the other classes. I could be wrong. If the other classes split up I think it will be a mistake. I hope they search for a different venue first before splitting. It also seems that it is the 4a coaches who seem to want to be split up most. I think they seem to have there own fraternity, so to speak. I see them splitting off. I just hope they don't regret it later.
I think that one of the worst things about having all the classes together is how long it takes. By the time you reach state most people are rooting for an individual. Finals take over 3 hrs with all the classes together. That is ridiculous! No one likes to sit in one place for over 24 hrs in a weekend, yet that is what you are forced to do by having all the classes together. Also, The award ceremony should be a thing of great honor and prestige. Currently it is more a matter of how fast they can get the medals out. I would much rather see single class state tournaments.
RJW:
The only Kansas state tournaments I have ever coached at have been at Hays. The only time I was in Wichita was when I was still in the media in 1998. I thought the facility was a joke, the non-KSHSAA staff hard to work with and the overall treatment of everyone deplorable. From where I sit, all of the reasons are plenty to move the tournament.
Find the right facility (Expocenter, Bramlege, Allen Fieldhouse, whatever) with the right people running it and a multi-class tournament will work. I have seen it happen.
As for Hays, about the only thing I would change would be for the finals — why not open up the floor bleachers and let some of the crowd down there? Hays is great, but without a crowd down there, that one mat is sitting in the middle of a big empty.
Just a thought...
I agree with Lion Pride. Kansas needs to cut back the # of Classes for H.S.Wrestling. 2 would
be enough that would be about 100 wrestlers per
class in each weight. To be named a State Champ
you should have to be better than just 32 other
Varsity Wrestlers. Take the 30 4A schools with the lowest enrollment and add them to 321A and
put the other 31 with 5A & 6A and have them go
at it all in 1 loacation. Now that would be an event to see! Also add a Dual Championship.
Just my opinion.
I agree lets reduce the number of classifications throw all classes into one bracket and get it on. Then we could truly have a State Champion. It would be a long tournament but it could be held in one place and it would be tough. Or even combine 4a, 5a, and 6a into one bracket. I bet nobody wants to do that though. I see the point that Coach Biems has and I have changed my thinking in that maybe separating is good but I do not think that the state would want to pay costs of several venues. JUST SOME THOUGHTS TO CHEW ON!!!!!!!!
Moving the site out of Wichita would be as silly as all get out... When we watch several mats with seeing several great wrestlers that is where all the talk and hype of a possible "Grand State" originates... We see the 4a, 5a, and 6a championships and wonder who would the true state champ be.
I think the KSHAA would like it moved so we quit talking about and applying pressure for a grand state.
Rick,
One of the main sticking points to renewing with the Coliseum is that Coors paid to carpet the Coaches/workers hospitality room and now the Coliseum people don't want KHSAA to use it. An offer to pick up the cost of the hospitality room was via the Sedgwick Co. Sports Commission. Of course the offer is moot if they don't have an area to have the hospitality room.
You're right we hear the same complaints about the facility and staff at Topeka for kids state. I for one can't understand why people think it's their right to sit in the aisles.
Put 5/6A together, 4A seperate, 3-1Atogether rotate 4A and 3-1A between Topeka and Hays. Put 5 and 6A in Manhattan, Lawrence or Kansas City.
Thoughts:
Think the 2 classes an exceptional idea. Split 4A down the middle, send them up and down. if need be, take tournament to 24/32 man bracket and let the best emerge. That would be exciting!
KSHSAA needs a Dual State. I can't think of any true reason why one can't be worked into the existing schedule.
As to facilities amenities/tournament management/comfort levels: as long as the wrestlers are safe and there are no inherent saftey issues with the facilities or tournament management everything else is cosmetic. Tournament efficiency is not a facilities issue, but a personnel issue which is more a KSHSAA concern of hiring the right director and crew.
I figure the important thing was/is the wrestling...everything else is just gravy.
It is hard for me to imagine that any coach or wrestler is happy with the 456A tourneys at Wichita. There needs to be some answer to make this a better environment. In my opinion, the answer is splitting it up among 2 or 3 sites. I think a lot of 4A coaches want our own site and several of us are convinced that this is something worth fighting for.
Can the problems be fixed without splitting it up???-Maybe, but I just don't see it. The only way would be to make it three days with a varied schedule like some other states do a combined tourney or something----well actually, forget IT-- just split it up.
One more thing--- For all of you think we need fewer classes so it will mean something when you win state are crazy. It means something to be a state champ now. We don't need to reduce the number of kids who have success in wrestling by only having one or two state champs in each weight state wide. We don't do this in other sports and shouldn't do it in wrestling. These ideas are insane and would do nothing positive for our sport. (Push for a later grand state if that is what you want to see, but don't destroy our sport by reducing the number of wrestling classes) Lets look at the real issue here, which is why we should or shouldn't split up the Wichita mess.
There is significant issues facing KSHSAA right now. The current fiscal crisis, that will only get worse in the near future, facing the schools is a significant concern. Hence why Regionals are based on pure geographic considerations and not "strength" or "historical" considerations.
I personally believe that splitting up the state tournament venues would be a significant mistake. Both for the good of the sport and for the value it provides the attendees. I believe that there are two separate issues: Facilty value (KSHSAA primary concern - it has to be) and the management issue of that facility. If both can be rectified to the KSHSAA favor (economically) it makes sense to keep all three classes in Wichita. But, fiscally speaking it does not make sense to conduct multiple venues. You are spreading the dollars too thin for KSHSAA to make the profit necessary.
The question now is "Why is profit important?" That is a reality and KSHSAA must make sensible business decisions. The other component that they need to address is the marketing of wrestling as a sport. The media coverage (newspaper, Statewide/Live Finals televised, etc.) will come out of this. We all can assist here thru the KWCA and the school administrators group.
Finally, I agree with Mr. Shea that I wish KSHSAA would go to two classes. I believe that you would see the interest, fervor, and attendance at the Regional and State tournaments increase. With Class I (large) with 80 schools and Class II with approx 120. Eight Regionals, with top three coming out to a 24 man bracket at state. This works in other states - limiting the numbers increases the interest and will significantly increase the KSHSAA gate.
And it is important to "mean" something as a wrestler to make State a tough plateau to reach. It is also exciting to sit in a 20 team District in Iowa and have over 1,000 people in the gym or attend the Nebraska state finals with 15,000 lining Devaney Center.
Whatever the solution - and I realize that there is a broad spectrum of opinions - KSHSAA needs to move in the direction that is best for them fiscally and the sport as a whole. When that decision is made we all need to get behind it - regardless of our opinions - to move this sport upwards and onwards. Participation is increasing in the kids rank - our challenge is to translate that to increased numbers at the High School ranks.
And Dual State is a WONDERFUL idea. That is a suggestion we should ALL get behind when this thread is finished. Good Luck to all and to Rick.
Richard-
I can't forget a lot of the matches your talking about because I didn't see them. I did see the 4A matches you mention, but just didn't get a chance to see what is going on on the other mats a lot of the time. I know there are good things going on at the 456A tourney right now and several have left me with a lot of memories, but overall it is a poor situation for a lot of the people invloved. I know there are coaches who do not favor splitting the tourneys up, but I also think several of us are in favor of a 4A on its own format.
how do u figure having top three in each region is fair? So ur saying that in the consolation finals, that the kid that loses doesnt get to go to state? Unless u put it in a pool format and that wouldnt work out at all.
To do a 24 man bracket, yes fourth place would not qualify for state. It would make an exciting consolation final. The other option would be to do a 16-man bracket with "true seconds" at Regionals - wherein if you lost the final but had not wrestled the third place guy - you two would wrestle for the state berth with the loser staying home. (multiple states have this format). But, I was deferring to Mr. Shea's example and didn't want to get totally crucified by you Suh!
I just reread your post...with a 24 man bracket you either give the eight Regional winners first round byes (see the NCAA brackets - each weight class has a different number of competitors). It is double elim all the way out; therefore you would not "pool" the tournament. Does that make sense?
I think that there has been allot of good ideals about what to do with the state tournament. But I think there are allot of thing that most people don’t think about. Topeka and Salina are great places to have a state tournament. It is my understanding that the KSHSAA don’t put on any of the state tournaments they just administer the tournaments. But my question to everyone is who will host the tournament. Who is the person that will organize the tournament and have every thing set up and ready to go? What 4A teams are close enough to Salina to put on this tournament? That is if you have 4A in Salina. It is easy to sit back and say lets have it at this place because it is a great place to have a tournament. But having quality people step forward and say I will be in charge of putting on a state tournament is another thing. This is one of thankless jobs that nobody wants to do. I think allot of good comments have come out of this topic. Coaches make sure you bring these comments up when you have your KWCA meeting at your regional tournament
I was wondering how many people associated with 4A wish to split up the classes?
How many people in 5A and 6A wish to split up the classes?
Seems to me that most 4A wants to split while most 5A and 6A want to stay.
I think before you can start talking about moving certain classes to certain places, we must fix the 5A and 6A ordeal. 8-man brackets at regionals???? Are you kidding me???? I wrestled 321A last year, and I had 18 kids in my bracket, so 4 kids had a feather match. What I've seen over the years is kids with losing records make it to state in 5 and 6a, because if there are two teams that don't have a guy at a certain weight, than a kid only has to win 1 match to make it to state. That's prestigous???
We need to keep 4A 5A and 6A in the same place it is great to be able to watch the talented kids from the three classes - would like to have all six classes.
You know it is funny. People rag on 5 and 6A but I don't think you would want to run out there and dual their state champs just every year. Over the years I have coached in every division in the state and they are all very very tough. I see kids winning each year in every class that may not be quite as good as someone winning some other class. WHO CARES!!!! We are in the business of providing opportunities for young people. That is why wrestling exists, not to satisfy some silly need to be presitigeous or whatever. This is about kids and if we can provide this experience for a lot as opposed to a few then good for us and better yet GOOD FOR THEM!
I agree but as a fan I still like seeing all the wrestlers in the same place it is awesome.
Oh yes I agree with you 100% that the state tourneys are great being together the way they are. The reason I am for it is because the kids love it. It is exciting for them and they will remember it the rest of their lives. I agree with you 100%, I didn't mean to convey otherwise there. I was responding from an earlier post that insinuated that 5 and 6A were not worthy for some reason and that classes should be combined. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
I personally think that the classes should remain how they are even though we have 4 state champs at every weight. I also think that their should be districts, regionals, and state. So there would only be 8 man brackets at each. I think that there should only be 4 placers at each weight instead of six. That way there is more prestige in placing. It also makes for a total of 16 placers instead of 24, and would make the earlier rounds a lot more meaningful. But that is just my opinion.
RJW- you don't see the finals because you're coaching, and you're in charge of a team. Keep in mind, there are 7,000 people who ARENT in charge of a team, and are fully capable of watching all the matches mentioned. Also, many wrestlers have friends from different classes that they would like to watch wrestle. Just because you can't see the excitement doesn't mean you should spoil it for the other 6,999 of us.
And forget all this prestige stuff. You name me one state champ that didn't deserve it. Tell me one person in ANY class who won state, yet is a fish. You can't do it. Just because there are less teams does not make it dishonorable.
And finally, to whoever said Wichita and Topeka are the only places big enough to hold the tournament is nuts! Salina has the Bicentennial Center, Lawrence has Allen Fieldhouse, and Manhattan has Bramlage Collesium. I don't know about the other sites, but Bramlage holds 13,000, which is almost twice that of Wichita. I also believe all three cities have more than enough hotel room.
However, it would indeed be hard to find a place that would do the so-called "thankless jobs." I think that that aspect of the Wichita state tournament is covered beautifully, and we should all thank the parents and fans who help run the tournament. The Collesium staff may be full of jerks, but those who run the tournament do an outstanding job.
top six placers is a good format for state. Having only the top four doesnt make it any more prestigious, it just screws over the kids that worked that hard to fight back all the way from the first match at state to get that far. Having top six insures that good kids that didnt win impossible matches in the front door can have a chance medaling.
sorry if i came off a little offensive phil gam. I appreciate ur opinion.
There are too many state qualifiers in 5A and 6A. With only 32 schools in each classification why would you qualify half of the participants for state? Conduct two 16 team regionals and have 8 man brackets at state or combine 5A and 6A so they are closer in size to 4A and 321A. Kansas only has 2.25 million people but we crown four state champs at each weight. That is too many. Compare that to OK, IA, PA etc. In New York they only crown 1 champ. Less participants would make the venue issue more easily addressed. Of course, the KSHSAA wouldn't make as much money so I am crazy for even bringing it up!
"combine 5A and 6A so they are closer in size to 4A and 321A. Kansas only has 2.25 million people but we crown four state champs at each weight. That is too many. Compare that to OK, IA, PA etc. In New York they only crown 1 champ. Less participants would make the venue issue more easily addressed."
i agree 100%
Most states have shoulder to shoulder weigh-ins also. Should we do that also?
The point with Wichita is they have hosted the tournament for many years and it isn't good enough for what the kids deserve. Tournament officals have had the chance to fix many of the problems we all have discussed. They have failed. The contract to the Kansas Coliseum is up. Now is our chance to make things better. 4A in Salina would be better than now. The 64 4A teams could fill the Bi-Centennial Center and make for an exciting wrestling atmosphere. I will vote for this.
The great thing about keeping all classes in one venue is it creates an atmosphere of magnificence and accomplishment. Wrestlers and coaches may not care about the other classes, but the fans would be missing out. Let's face it, wrestling is not a spectator sport, but the state tourny brings out people that haven't watched wrestling all year. WE NEED FANS. You simply can not afford to lesson the event by fragmenting the classes. Lots of kids get turned on to wrestling there, the media is there, how many would show up to watch a minor state tourny if they had no personal interest. The 4A,5A, and 6A puts wrestling on the map for at least one weekend. If you want to move it, move them all to one place.
Coach Beime I see you say you were a wrestler that didnt like them put together. Who did you wrestle for just wondering?
Prant-
I 100% believe that there is tons of prestige in winning state or placing at state at all classes in Kansas and am totally against combining classes. I'm not putting down 5-6A at all, but I don't like the way the State tourneys are set up. I realize that some fans like having the ability to watch the three classes together, but the mess for coaches and wrestlers is not worth it to me. When the KSHSAA proves that it can run a quality event that isn't a big cluster, maybe I'll chang by mind, but right now I am 100% for the 4A having our own tourney in Salina or someplace like that.
Wouldn't it be nice to have a tourney where the presentation of awards is appreciated, the team scores are posted, there is hospitality, organization, and people running the tourney who respect and understand the great accomplishments of our wrestlers???
What frustrates me about this thread - and I appreciate Mr. Phillips keeping us on point - is the singular blinders people have for their situation today. The focus needs to be on what is best for Kansas wrestling, not for the individual classes.
You cannot look at the solution as your situation today (what class you currently inhabit) just thru those glasses. With four new 4A/5A schools opening in KC metro by 2007/08 and the population growth of the Speedway development what ripple effect will that have? With the depopulation of western Kansas what ripple effect will that have? Just because you are a certain class today does not guarantee you will be there in five years (with exceptions on the two spectrums I concede.) We need to focus the discussion and solution as a whole.
That being said my bias is that you get a bigger bang for your buck by bringing as many classes together in a single venue. I believe we need to look for solutions as a whole rather than going our own separate ways. We need...we must come together as a community to elevate the sport singularly - not as separate classes. Only then can we promote and pass the Dual State proposal. Only then can we begin to overcome Title IX issues and provide more opportunities for our sons (and daughters) to compete in Kansas college programs. But, I believe, we need to do this as a cohesive unit and separate state venues do not take us down the path. Instead, I believe, it will take us farther apart from the goals we need to concentrate on.
Let's get past petty issues as Point standings and Hospitality rooms and concentrate on expanding and strengthening Kansas wrestling.
just my opinion....
I wrestled for Spring Hill (4a) from 95-99' and really appreciated having the state tournament in wichita. Having 3 classes wrestle in the same venue was tremendous! There were excellent matches over on the 5a and 6a mats that i wouldn't have missed for the world. There were plenty of matches that i was too busy to watch........but just having the oppurtunity to watch was great. I still go to the state tournament in wichita just so i can see some great wrestling through all the classes. I remember stepping out on the mat (my first time)at the collesium and feeling overpowered with pride and nerves just by the atmosphere....of having several thousand fans watch you and a couple hundred good wrestlers work their butt off to earn a title. I am a rule 10 coach (dollar coach) at spring hill and just want to beg the powers to be NOT to split 4a up from 5a and 6a.
Also i agree that the wichita mob squad can be compromising to wrestlers, fans, and coaches but i believe its for good reason. At state, there are too many fans and wrestlers (who aren't about to wrestle) who are down at the mats watching the wrestling up close. These guys create part of the cluster that the state tournament has. I believe if the fans would just stay off the stairways (and in the stands) and in their seats (not by the mats) that the mob squad would be a little nicer to us all.
Overtime,
I believe he wrestled for Atwood from 1988-1991 who went to the Hays State Tournament.
I am willing to support the advancement of wrestling in all classes in Kansas, but I don't think you do that by having state for 456A at the same site. We do that when we wrestle other classes at places like Beliot, Newton, Liberal, and other tournaments all year. I like the opportunity to wrestle good wrestlers in other classes, and think all coaches should continue to fight for the advancement of Kansas Wrestling. We CAN do that without having our state tournaments at the same site. People like Coach Baker at Hoxie help advance Kansas Wrestling and they participate in a state tourney outside of the Wichita mess. Saying our push to split the 456A state is only looking out for our class is not true and we will continue to fight for wrestling in Kansas and world wide whether we have 456A state together or not!!!
The issue is and will always be the inability of the KSHSAA to run a quality State event with the huge numbers present at the combined 456A tournaments.
Just another perspective. Many wrestlers and their parents who have come up through the kids program have made wonderful, long-standing friendships over the years with kids who end up in different classes at high school. To me it is a wonderful opportunity to see as many of them as possible when they earn the honor of wrestling at State. I'm just sorry we can't also see the 3-2-1A kids as well. I understand Hays has a great thing going, and I wouldn't say others should try to disrupt something so successful that everyone seems very happy with, but maybe the Hays people could offer some valuable advice on how to be as successful with the 4A, 5A and 6A tournament. I like the suggestion from Iowa about running an all 4-A round, then an all 5-A round, etc. That would actually give the teams and coaches opportunity to sit back and watch some of these matches. The Coliseum has many faults, but lets find ways to solve those facility and personnel issues without taking the kids apart. I often feel like I have ten sons when watching a tournament due to how important these kids become to each other and each other's families. This is a credit to wrestling and the kids and parents involved. PLEASE don't break the tournaments up!!!!!!!
Mom,
Wichita has had their chance.
Coach Beim if it is true that you went to Attwood and you wrestled in the 321A tourney then you really dont know what it is like to be a wrestler in the wichita tourney. I took an awful lot of kids to that tourney in both six A and five A and they were just wide eyed excited about it. Maybe you dont get that way in front of all those people with all that stuff going on but they thought they were in the big time and sadly it was as close as a lot of them ever got to the big time in anything. It is just a different perspective then you get at Hays. Hey I love the 321A deal i wrestled in it long ago and coached in it several times and it is wonderful buttt. not for everything.
I forgot to make that point and I just saw it re-reading some of the posts. I am not coaching anymore and the one thing I miss more than anything and the thing that I loved the most about Wichita was seeing all those people that I have known, some for thirty five years or more that I never saw any other time. It was like drinking fine wine to see them again. That is the kind of friendships the kids are making right now. Shoot they should have a chance to meet as many people as they can in their experience.
Boy I never thought I would ever do this but I am going to stand up for the KSHSAA in that they run a fine meet in Wichita. I hate the barn they have it in and the people that work for that barn but Dale and all the workers and the organization of it is wonderful. I can't think of one thing besides the incessant parades that I don't like about the way they do business. It ann't easy to do and they do it like clockwork. NoOOOOOO offense to those workers they have a monumental task and they do it very well.
In defense of Coach Beims, he has coached at the 4A tourney for a couple of years and led Colby to the team title two years ago and was fourth as a team last year. He nows what it is like to wrestler there because he can ask his wrestlers that have been there (which is somewhere around 17 in the last two years).
I think he knows what it is like and he also knows how it is supposed to be for a wrestler because he was an undefeated state champ for Atwood in the early 90's and got to wrestler in the well-run Hays tourney.
I meant he got to Wrestle -----
I think the point everyone is trying to make is that there are pros and cons to everything. I can remember taking teams to the 6A state in Topeka and Junction City and they did a wonderful job but heck it was just like any other tourney. Going to a place where so much is happening is a big time deal and special in a way that is very hard to do if it is all in one place. I think there are good and bad points to both and I agree with the way they run it. That Dale Overtime was talking about was Dale Downing of Andover and he was great at running a tourney. My hat is off to him. I don't know if he is still doing it but he was marvelous at it.
I know running the 456A state would be a tough job and I don't want to just sit here and point fingers because I think it may be impossible to run this event well. I realize there are positives and negatives to every situation, but in the particular situation of 456A state, my opinion is that the negatives of the situation outweigh the positive aspects to an extent where I am in favor of splitting it up.
What is it about the way they run the tourney (not the building or the rudeness of the people that work for it) that you don't like. What would you like to see done differently or is badly done? Just wondering. Not trying to be argumentative just wondering what you would like to see done differently.
Westfahl, whether I wrestled in Wichita or not, I still like the Hays format much better. In Hays, they don't wrestle on ice, team scores are kept, weigh-ins are quicker & more efficient so wrestlers don't have to eat cold cereal on the cold floor, table workers "know" wrestling, cheerleaders cheer on matside and not just take up space, and the best wrestlers in the state are showcased on one mat in the finals.
Here is what the KWCA coaches will be voting on by March 4th for next year.
Option #1 - Leave the state tournament in the same sites with the same groupings.
Option #2 - Leave the groupings as they are, but seek different sites.
Option #3 - Change the groupings as well as seek different sites.
Option #4 - Seek individual sites for each classifciation's state tournament which may include high schools as host sites.
Again, my vote is #3
Article from the Salina Journal
Salina would be ideal as a state wrestling site
By CHRISTIAN D ORR
The Salina Journal
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The Kansas State High School Activities Association isn't ready to start talking about it yet, and people around Wichita don't seem to want to talk about it at all.
But there's a growing possibility that this will be the final year that Wichita serves as host for the state wrestling tournament for classes 6A, 5A and 4A.
My response is simple: Hallelujah.
My solution: Salina is here with open arms.
For several years, coaches, wrestlers and fans have grown increasingly tired of the Kansas Coliseum, its facilities and mostly the attitudes of the people there. It is chaos from the Thursday night before the tournament begins until the final team trophies are handed out and the winning teams hastily shooed out the door.
"Wichita is not hospitable toward the coaches, the fans and most importantly the wrestlers," said Colby coach Mitch Beims, who has said he would be in favor of the state tournament, at least for Class 4A, relocated to Salina's Bicentennial Center.
"I would love to see a 4A tournament at Salina. The Bicentennial Center is a good fit."
Tiffany Greene, Sports and Special Events Coordinator for the Salina Area Chamber of Commerce, said she is aware that changes for state wrestling venues is a possibility and she has talked with Rick Bowden of the Kansas State High School Activities Association about Salina possibly serving as a future host.
"We have let them know that we would welcome an opportunity to host a state championship here whether they keep it all together or they break it up," Greene said. "I think we do have a good facility and the community and volunteers to put it together.
"I know there is a lot of interest in wrestling around here."
There is little doubt that this area would support such an event with communities like Abilene, Clay Center and Concordia all sporting top-notch programs, Salina South continuing its 5A ascent and multiple others in the area that are simply wrestling fans.
The only question is whether the Bicentennial Center is large enough to serve as host to the three larger classes.
But under many of the current proposals, that may not even be an issue. Several coaches at the 4A level have expressed an interest in breaking away from the pack and having their own state tournament at their own site.
My response: Salina is here with open arms.
Another proposal would have Classes 4 and 5A continue to be at one site while Class 6A would break off on its own.
My response: Salina is here with open arms.
Kansas High School Activities Association director Gary Musselman said if the state does decide to change venues for the 2003-2004 school year, Salina would be an option. But at this point the KSHSAA's only focus is on this year's state tournaments.
"Are we looking very seriously at alternative opportunities to host the state tournament? I would say not any more seriously than we always look at other options and alternatives," Musselman said. "I think a lot of this talk has come up because this is the last year of our contract with the Kansas Coliseum."
Personally, I would love to see both the Class 3-2-1A tournament and the 4A tournament in Salina while Classes 5A and 6A wrestle at another site. But there is little chance that Class 3-2-1A would ever leave its home in Hays. The coaches love it in Hays and the people of Hays have done a fabulous job of running it.
The bottom line, however, is very few people want to see any of the tournaments return to Wichita.
"A lot of the coaches, myself included, are not very happy (in Wichita)," said Salina South coach Brent Lane, who is pushing a proposal to bring Classes 4A and 5A to Salina. "I don't know if we can do all three (4A, 5A and 6A) here, but 4A wants it here and I want (5A) here, too.
"I'd love to see it come this way."
I said it before and I'll say it again: Salina is here with open arms.
I agree with you about the cheerleaders and we have gone round and round about that over the years. Once in a great while there are varying degrees of knowledge at the tables. I don't think the state champions are diminished in any way by the format however. I have had a lot of kids win it and they were thrilled with their state championship. The fact that they don't show the team scores is a bad deal and that is 100% the fault of the facility people not wanting to do it. I know they want them to they just won't do it. I don't think that is the fault of the state or the people that run the tourney though. You make some good points but it is a lot more fun than it used to be going to state in Colby or Goodland in the heart of the League up there. I know why you guys liked that so much lol. I would have too.
1. Team scores not posted
2. Team scores not updated for coaches enough
3. Presentation of awards and the Parade are anti-climatic
4. Security staff is unfreindly
5. Hopitality is poor (not just the room, but just in general)
6. Facility is poor and most of the ones big enough for this in the state are.
7. The kids are overshadowed by '"the event"
8. Weigh-ins are a mess. Take forever (either they are poorly organized or there are just too many people)
9. Nine mats on floor and no room for anything else(cheerleaders/media/etc in the way)
10. Three state championship matches going on at once(again has to be that way due to numbers, but it is neat to have the entire arena watching 1 match like it would be if 4A was on its own)
I guess it just feels like one of those huge kids tournaments we remember as a kid where nobody knows what is going on or who is in charge.
Just my top ten of the top of my head.
You know except for the cheerleaders and the three finals mats it sounds a lot like the NCAA finals doesnt it? I am not saying it couldnt be better it certainly could, but in my opionion it is a bigger deal for the kids to wrestle there than it is when it is just one division in one place. How bout Topeka they could do all three. How about putting 4A in Salina and 5 and 6A in Topeka. Personally I like seeing all the studs from all the classes in one place. Some of them never get a chance to see each other wrestle.
When Dale was running it I never ever had a problem figuring out that he was in charge by the way lol. He was good at being in charge.
So we do agree that there are things that should be different. I agree also that winning a state title is not diminished in Wichita at all. That's got to be a great feeling anywhere. After coaching in Wichita for several years, I am fed up. I do not want state in Goodland for God's sake, but I am stubborn enough to vote to get out of Wichita if they are unwilling to change some of the things that need changed.
We totally agree about Wichita it sucks no doubt about it. I just think there are other answers besides throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I think they should put together a committee of coaches and let you guys have some input on it. They never wanted mine but maybe they would listen to some of you. Maybe you could suggest that at your regionals. The state is like a big old government and they dont listen if you arent right in front of them.
I do not believe any of us are wedded to the Kansas Coliseum. If KSHSAA is going to move it the first option should be to move it to a new arena - All Classes to a new arena. The solution to the congestion at a smaller arena/venue is to simply expand the tournament to a three day event and run sessions for each class. Everybody wins: Schools, Fans, Wrestlers, KSHSAA.
I believe the consensus so far, from the KC and Wichita areas, is we, as fans, enjoy watching all classes of teams whom we have competed against all year. Please consider that the Leagues here that stretch across multiple classes.
If the you are going to take a vote - the largest base of schools/fans should count for something. Add to that the fact the schools here are shifting classes yearly I am asking the KSHSAA to strongly consider keep the classes together for continuity. Find a new arena, fix the problems with Wichita, hold it in a cornfield in Leoti - but let us all burn cornstalks together.
I am going to ask several questions here, why in many of the proposed solutions to this, is it group the classes into two groups with the smaller group still having a larger number? The reasoning behind this is that the larger schools have larger teams and thus better competition. This simply is not true. There are 3A teams with as large of squad as most 6A or 5A teams. There are a few exceptions (Manhattan for one), but there are also a very high percentage of 6A teams that can't even field a full team. The logic needs to be changed.
As far as not wanting to dual the State Champs in 6A and 5A, I think it is ridiculous to say one classes State champs are better than another as a whole. Each class has stronger wieghts than any other, but also much weaker weights than anyother. It just depends on the individual and the year. From my years Wrestling in a 3-2-1A regional, compared to caoching at a 6A regional, there is no comparison. When has a 3-2-1A team or 4A team qualfied 14? If it has happened, it has not occured very often. It is not feasible to get 14 through a 16 man bracket. In the 97-98 season two 6A teams did so (Garden City and Manhattan). I have a hard time believing that either team placed 14 at any other tourney(although I am not certain) which means their regional was the weakest tournament they attended that year. This is not the way it should be.
Any thoughts?
I also forgot something. The Hays Coliseum is packed every year for 3-2-1A. I think one reason this is is because the Tournament is spectator friendly. The action is much faster, because you are not waiting for 3 mats to get done to start each new weight in the finals. Everyone is focused on one mat, so the atmosphere is much more intense. I think breaking up the Tourney's could actually increase attendance and possibly offset the cost of an increased # of venues.
I think everything should stay the same
OK here is my shot at this. Years ago when I wrestled, they had 4A and 321A both in Hays.It was a great experience for me! I have since coached in Hays (3A only), and in Witchita. I have also attended a 4A state tourny in Abilene.Of all the places I have coached or witnessed a state tourny I liked the 4A - 3A tourny in Hays the best. Why dont we put 4A - 321A in one place and 5A - 6A in another. This still leaves us with two sites and we still would get to see other great wrestlers from other classes!
It's amazing, the original topic was about considering a new sight for the 4A, 5A, and 6A state tournaments. Then, before we know it, there are too many classes and too many qualifiers and several opinions on how to make things better. After having been a KWCA officer for twelve years I can almost assure you the present system of four state tournaments with 16 qualifiers will remain the same. We as the KWCA fought hard for many years to get 5th and 6th place recognized, which meant eight more wrestlers in the state being awarded for their hard work. It would seem ludicrous to go to two classes and eliminate half the state placers. What we need to do at this juncture is find an acceptable place to hold the tournaments and concentrate our efforts on this and this only. As for my own personal opinion, I have coached in both 3A and 4A and found the experience at Fort Hays State in the late 70's and early 80's to be a positive one. I will vote to return 4A back to Hays.
First of all I didn't grow up in Kansas, so I guess I missed out on this great kansas tradition of 321a. And I've always wondered why Kansas was so much farther behind most of the other states in wrestling. But as I read this it's becoming pretty obvious what the problem is. You guy's could careless about promoting Kansas wrestling as a whole. I'm not saying everyone on here has that attitude, but there's enough of you to ruin it for everyone else. Kansas is mostly small communitys, so that means there's alot of smaller class schools. Which means the kids that live in the bigger towns get talked down on because they're in the minority.I don't see how seperating your classes is going to help Kansas wrestling. Grand state would be the best thing to happen to Kansas, because then you could recognize a kid for his talent, not for where he's from. And you wonder why Kansas doesn't have college wrestling. There's know support of wrestling as a state. There's to many little groups trying to say there better than everyone else. I can't speak for years past, but the only thing that stands out about 321A is they've got the best team inthe state with Hoxie. But I don't see anyone in 321A with thew exception of 1 or 2 wieghts that would win a grand state title. And truthfully as far as dueling the 5A/6A state champs 321A would'nt have a chance this year. I know this is going to make alot of people mad, and I'll probably get some nasty reply's, but oh well. Oh yea and just because you have more fish to wade through to get to the final's doesn't make you a better class than all the other's.
The reason 3-1A has the best state tourney is because of a lot of factors including great support of small home town fans, many of the best wrestlers in the state, as many as any other class but one of the things that makes it the best tournament is the atmosphere and focus on one class. I will bet you can't find two people who have been to both and does not think the single tourney at Hays far outshines 3 at Wichita.
I also love being able to watch all the different classes together in one building. But last year I couldn't hardly tell who was who from where I was sitting! And there were too many matches going on at once. Seems to me that we should be competing for the ultimate title of "Kansas Champion", not just class champion. Let's split the classes up, and have a Grand State!!!
K.C.- I am not trying to make this sound nasty, but what you wrote truly shows you are not from Kansas. Alot of people in Eastern Kansas truly do not understand what wrestling is like in Western Kansas. In the winter it is the #1 sport in many many places. Where I grew up we had more fans at our duals than went to the Basketball games. We did have Grand State and for some reason it was dropped (if anyone knows why could you enlighten me, I have heard theories but no true reason). Kansas does have some very successful wrestling programs, albeit at the Junior College level. The reason that we don't have a D-1 program is not about lack of support but Title IX and the almighty $$$$$. Try going out to Hays once and see what it is about before you start putting it down. I wrestled there and I wish every wrestler could have an experience like that. Remember this is about the wrestlers getting the best experience, not the fans (or cheerleaders for that matter). As far as Grand State Champions, how many of the wrestlers from Hoxie, Norton, Ulysses, Oakley, Trego, or Ellis have you actually seen wrestle? I am not saying they are better than everyone else, but again it depends on the year and the individual. 3-2-1A 145 has 2 or 3 wrestlers alone that could win a Grand State tourney.
Please don't take offense, but living in Eastern Kansas I have heard all this before, but always by people who had not experienced what happened out west.
KC,
"Kansas is so much farther behind some other states in wrestling"???
Coachtwink- No offense taken. I'm really not trying to run down the state tourny in Hays. And I really don't want to talk about who's better than who. I'd prefer the kid's decide that on the mat. I've not heard one thing bad about the Hay's tournament. It sounds like a great atmosphere for the kids. And as far as wrestling being important to western Kansas, thats pretty obvious, I mean they have there own state tounament out there. And I have seen the teams you mentioned wrestle. But, I've also seen alot of the 456A teams wrestle. It just seems to me that the state has a split down the middle so that one side of the state doesn't recognize the other side. There are alot of talented wrestlers in this state. I just don't think they get the recognition they deserve because of this split.
I would like to see 4A-5A-6A stay together and have it at the Topeka Expocenter, I have read alot about the feelings of be un-attached to the matches at the Colusieum and can empathize with it. I think the Expocenter would handle the event very well, I have been there during Kids State and Kids Nationals and we are talking about 4-5 times the number of wrestlers than what is at the High school state. The is never a problem during kids state and the people working the matches are top notch. Plus the Expocenter provides better viewing of the matches and a much more intimate setting for watching the matches.
K.C.-
You stated that Kansas wrestling was always "so far behind everyone else" in one of your previous posts. Fool, you CRAZY. I may be wrong, but didn't Kansas finish in the top 5 at folkstyle nationals last year? Weren't we somewhere up there for freestyle/greco too? Kansas is not far behind, in fact I'd say we help set the curve.
I would also like to stick up for the tiny guys here. I attend one of the biggest high schools in the state, and I can guarantee that there are at least 8 or so teams from 4/3/2/1A that could easily beat half of the 5A/6A teams in a dual or a tournament. Maybe it's from wrestling cows and tractors all their lives, but something makes those kids tough.
Yea, my son wrestled on the cadet team. I'm not talking about the talent of Kansas wrestlers, I'm talking about organization and Kansas backing all there kids not just the select few.
I love you guys from out of state critisizing Kansas wrestling. You like it so well in those other states go back there. I have coached teams against the best of Colorado, Oklahoma,and Iowa and I can tell youright now that there are good kids everywhere. Kansas put out Myron Roderick, Melvin Douglas, Pete Meringer (the first Olympic Champ) Eric Aikens, the Duel brothers who both wrestled at Oklahoma State with great success, and a host of others and have many ranked wrestlers right now in major colleges. Our kids always compete very well at the National Tourneys, and you can tell where I think you should stick your opionion of Kansas Wrestling. I am proud of what we have done here and some of us have devoted our lives to it. If you think it is so darn bad maybe you should talk to some of us who have been here all of our lives and find out about the history of it before you go off on a bash fest of us. There are a heck of a lot of Iowa and Oklahoma state champs who do nothing in Division I wrestling and that doesnt shed a negative light on what they do. Where you from? If you want to bash us tell us where you are from so we can have a shot at you!!
The guy has a point. i think marketing and publicity wise, wrestling sorta gets the big screw in kansas. Seems like baseball, football and basketball take up whatever TV and radio time that is offered for high school sports. Maybe we get a regular season duel and mo-kan duel here and there on metro sports, but hardly any coverage compared to other sports. And you hardly see a highlight of a wrestler on metro sports, but u see plenty of a basketball team. Also Iowa televises the entire state championship, which my coach taped and i watched it. It was run really nicely and u could tell the whole state backed the sport with zeal. From what ive read above, the 456A tourney is hurting the publicity of kansas wrestling. Its so much more fan friendly to have the whole audience focus on one finals match. It would be nice if we could get a single match finals going instead of three wrestling at the same time.
Don't rely on what you hear, go to it and see for yourself. Hey Missouri has all theres in one place, Iowa has several in one place so does Nebraska and Colorado. Try it and see for yourself. Oklahoma has far more pub on those other sports too. We are not alone in that regard. Heck go by a Des Moines newspapaper, Girls basketball gets more pub in Iowa than wrestling does. Go see for yourself and see what you think of it. 5 and 6A may be bad for wrestling huh, check out where the ranked national wrestlers came from in major colleges right now, Roberson, Maines, Johnston all wrestled in that bad for Kansas wrestling 5 and 6 A state tourney as did Aikens and Douglas. See what it is for yourself.
As far as publicity it really depends on the place. My hometown (in Western Kansas) puts every single tournament on the radio-live. Also the State semifinals and Finals are on TV live and then also played several times during the month. It just depends on the area and the priorities.