Kansas Wrestling
Posted By: Brent Lane Title IX article and a local school - 02/18/03 03:22 AM
Thought some of you might be interested in this.


Volleyball coach sues ESU
By Stuart Goldman
goldman@emporiagazette.com

Emporia State University volleyball coach Maxine Mehus is suing the university for $200,000 on the grounds of sex discrimination, a hostile work environment, unequal pay and Title IX violations.

Mehus and her attorney, Denise Henning of Kansas City, Mo., filed the lawsuit on Friday. A timetable for a trial has not been set, although the trial is designated to take place in the U.S. District Court in Kansas City, Kan.

“This hasn’t been a spur-of-the-moment situation,” Mehus said Sunday. “This has happened over several months’ time, probably the better part of two years.

“I’ve pursued avenues on campus to get this resolved, to no avail. It left me with no other alternative than to pursue this in this manner. I feel strongly that the facts of the case will prove themselves out.”

At the heart of the lawsuit is Mehus’ claim that she is not being paid on the same level as her “similarly situated male counterparts.”

In a news release from Henning’s office, Mehus claims that she is paid $15,000 to $20,000 less a year than her “male head coach colleagues at Emporia State University.”

Mehus, who has coached the ESU volleyball team for the past 15 seasons, earns $46,499 a year, according to figures released on Sunday by ESU athletic director Kent Weiser.

Mehus is the fifth-highest paid head coach of the nine head coaches in the ESU athletic department. Dave Wiemers, who just completed his second season as ESU’s head football coach, earns $63,000 annually. Brandon Schneider, in his fifth season as women’s head basketball coach at ESU, earns $61,327. David Moe, in his second season as men’s head basketball coach at ESU, earns $60,008.

David Harris, who has coached at ESU for 11 years, is the fourth-highest paid coach at $51,937. Harris technically serves as the head coach of six teams at ESU: men’s and women’s cross country, men’s and women’s indoor track and field, and men’s and women’s outdoor track and field.

Mehus also is dissatisfied that she has a 10-month contract and not a 12-month contract. Among ESU head coaches, only Wiemers, Moe and Schneider have 12-month contracts.

Another sticking point for Mehus is that she has teaching responsibilities in addition to her coaching duties, something other ESU head coaches do not have. Weiser said Harris and baseball coach Brian Embery are the only other coaches who have teaching responsibilities.

“We’ve been working with Coach Mehus on some of these things for a while, so (the lawsuit) was not a complete surprise,” Weiser said. “We take it very seriously. We have always respected the law, and I respect her right to file such a suit. But we also firmly believe that the accusations have no merit, and we will vigorously defend ourselves.”

In the lawsuit, Mehus claims that she is receiving fewer resources toward the volleyball team’s overall budget, travel accommodations and supplies. Mehus also claims that she is working in an atmosphere “of open hostility toward women and women’s athletics.”

The athletics department’s senior woman administrator, Carmen Nelon, associate athletic director for internal operations at ESU, said, “This is my third year (at ESU), and no way have I seen any open hostility towards women or women’s athletics.”

Last fall, Mehus was interviewed by The Gazette for a story on Weiser and his cousin, Kansas State athletic director Tim Weiser. In the interview, Mehus addressed the environment of the ESU athletic department.

“I go can go into (Schneider’s) office and say, ‘How did you do last night?’ and vice versa,” Mehus said in the Oct. 25 article. “Coach Moe will come and shoot the breeze with me. That’s the kind of atmosphere that makes me feel comfortable.

“I think it starts from the top.”

On Sunday, Mehus was asked about those comments and their relation to the lawsuit.

“We have a good group of coaches,” Mehus said. “I don’t have any animosity toward any coach, nor do I have animosity toward any administrator. It’s just that there are things that need to be looked at and addressed, and I feel that that hasn’t been done.”

Mehus has long been a supporter of Title IX, the legislation enforced in 1972 that prohibits sex discrimination in education programs or activities that receive federal financial assistance. Title IX has created a lightning rod of controversy in recent years with the growth of women’s college athletics at the expense of some men’s programs such as wrestling.

Mehus gave a lecture on Title IX for the American Association of University Women (AAUW) on Nov. 13 in the Emporia Public Library.

Mehus has won 451 matches at ESU and 605 matches in her career. Last season, the Lady Hornets were 20-13 overall and tied for fifth place in the MIAA conference at 7-9.

Mehus won her 600th career match on Oct. 5 in a tournament in Hoover, Ala. Before ESU’s home match against Northwest Missouri State on Oct. 9, Weiser presented a game ball to Mehus in honor of her 600th win.

Mehus won 154 matches in nine seasons at Peru State (Neb.) College from 1979 to 1988. She also served as Peru State’s athletic director before coming to ESU. Mehus’ career accomplishments, however, are not listed in the 2002 ESU volleyball media guide, nor is any other biographical information about her.

As for her future at ESU, Mehus said, “I’ve seen retaliation happen against those that pursued these kinds of avenues. That’s not my call. That’s the administration’s call. But I still believe in this administration, that if they’re open-minded, if they want to resolve things for the betterment of the university for men’s and women’s athletics ... things can get settled.”

Weiser said: “(The lawsuit) has not and it will not affect the professional relationship between the athletics director and the coach.”

The lawsuit comes at a time when the ESU athletic department is enjoying great success. The football team won the Mineral Water Bowl and completed its third nine-win season in school history. Both basketball teams are currently in first place in the MIAA.

“We have had a terrific year,” Weiser said. “Any time you have to deal with things that are like this, it takes away from the efforts and the accomplishments of coaches and student-athletes. I would hate that if it happened. But it might.”

Pay Check

Salaries for ESU head coaches in 2002-03:

- Dave Wiemers, football, $63,000

- Brandon Schneider, women’s basketball, $61,327

- David Moe, men’s basketball, $60,008

- David Harris, cross country, track and field, $51,937

- Maxine Mehus, volleyball, $46,499

- Brian Embery, baseball $40,562

- Ivan Huntoon, women’s soccer, $27,500

- Shawn Siegele, tennis, $24,727

- Stacy Gemeinhardt, softball, $24,508
Posted By: Hovpen Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/18/03 03:49 AM
If you ask me, the wrong woman's coach filed the lawsuit. The softball coach should have nailed them.
10-month contract, for volleyball and 46k is good wages for coaches considering the short season they have compared to basketball.
And the basketball coach who has been there longer for women than the men is making more, but is a man, correct.
Softball and baseball have the big difference, and they go both fall ball and spring ball for half the money she gets for just fall ball.

Like I said. wrong coach filed suit. I don't think based just on pay scale she has a leg to stand on. There has to be more behind it ie travel lodging, meal allowance, scholarship money, etc.

I think the idea behind this title nine was good, just that it hasn't turned out that way in application. Both men's and women's sports are being hurt. My son experienced this when Independence dropped their track and field program for men AND WOMEN, back in 94 so they could add women's softball AFTER finishing fourth at the national meet.

I guarantee, you have never seen me as hot as I was then having to jump around in June to try and find a new school that wanted a decathalete
Posted By: fan54 Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/20/03 12:55 AM
This is a frivolous lawsuit. Mehus is the second highest paid volleyball coach in the MIAA and one of the least successful. They ought to fire her for not developing a decent program over the last 14 years. It is a shame that ESU has to spend time, energy,and money defending itself against these patently absurd allegations. Fighting this lawsuit over the next few years will hurt all the athletic programs at ESU by diverting resources to the legal defense and away from all the student athletes at ESU. It is a pity that our legal system doesn't provide for recovery of damages brought about by bogus lawyers filing bogus lawsuits.
Posted By: Westfahl Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/20/03 02:08 AM
Read the posts we have been arguing in the thread called Title IX. I think she is way overpaid for a volleyball coach. Anyone that thinks her responsibilities, duties, and work load in any way resemble the football coach, not to mention revenue production, is just dillusional.
Posted By: GorillaHawk Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/20/03 02:52 AM
I too think this is a bunch of crap, but she isn't just a "coach", she is also an instructor, so part of her pay, and I don't want to speculate what percentage, comes from teaching...Some of the other coaches do only that, coach...

The football and basketball coaches should be paid more...They bring in the revenue...Football at Emporia brings in the most athletic revenue, followed probably by women's basketball (the women's program is huge in Emporia and has been very successful over the last 5-10 years), then the men's program (probably, though, the men and women are even)...It wouldn't surprise me if baseball is next, followed by the volleyball and softball programs...

If she is the 5th highest-paid coach there and her program is 5th highest in bringing in revenue, then she's probably getting paid what she should be...
Posted By: Hovpen Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/20/03 03:17 AM
The fact that schools make money off football is a myth. Only the top and I mean top Division I programs in the country actually make money. Everyone else is subsidized.
We're talking profit here, not just making enough from gates to meet scholarship and traveling expenses.
Posted By: GorillaHawk Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/20/03 11:34 AM
True, most don't make a profit, even a $1 profit, however, I was trying to make a point that football is the sport that "financially supports", for the most part, the other sports, followed by basketball...
Posted By: GRAPE APE Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/20/03 12:23 PM
Yeah she's that very successful Fan54. She only has over 600 wins in her career and over 450 at Emporia State. That is one part of the lawsuit. You guys haven't even addressed the other parts of her claim. Don't be so quick to judge someone when you don't have all the facts of the case. And one thing you will learn is the only way get get all of those facts to come out is to sue. That is why we have a court system.
Posted By: Coach Luedke Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/20/03 12:28 PM
What a Joke. Enough Said.
Posted By: Westfahl Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/20/03 02:11 PM
Hey sands you are preaching to the wrong crowd here. I have been teaching and coaching for 28 years and I am just now getting to where I am making the money she is making now. She is treated with disdain by administrators and she is getting screwed over for equipement.... man what a rough deal. Welcome to every single coaching job in America what makes her special. I went to Emporia State and they nearly scuttled the athletic programs there in the name of womens sports.
Posted By: GRAPE APE Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/20/03 02:51 PM
I'm not taking sides I wrestled my whole life and I know what title 9 does to wrestling. You said you teached and coached for 28 years, how would you like if your school brought in another coach and paid him 10-15 thousand dollars more in his first year? Are you coaching at a high school? If you are you shouldn't be comparing a high school coaching salary to a collegiate salary. I am in no way saying anything bad about high school coaching I myself coached in high school it's just hard to compare the two.
Posted By: hasbeen Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/20/03 04:48 PM
You can't compare new coaches to old coaches and their salaries. You can only compare sport to sport. The fact being that you couldn't get a decent football coach at ESU for forty grand, whereas forty grand will get you a good volleyball coach. Compare the average salaries of DII volleyball coaches nationaly and compare her salary to others. That is the only way you can determine if she is getting paid unfairly.

If you are using the male to female comparison then look at this analogy. The owner of the LA Lakers also owns the LA Sparks. Does the owner have to pay the women players as much as the male players? No. Is that sexual discrimination? I don't know.
Everything is just what it is.
Posted By: GRAPE APE Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/20/03 05:03 PM
So you are telling me that seniority plays no part in what someone is paid? I do agree that football has a higher salary and should have one as well as other sports with greater responsibilities. Look at teachers and how much they get paid, a teacher with 20 years experience is going to get paid more that one with 5. She does have teaching responsibilities. I do think she is asking way too much money. On a side note-- Remember we have a certain woman who is asking for 50 million dollars from the U.S. government because her husband died of anthrax.
Posted By: Hovpen Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/20/03 05:14 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by hsands:
So you are telling me that seniority plays no part in what someone is paid? I do agree that football has a higher salary and should have one as well as other sports with greater responsibilities. Look at teachers and how much they get paid, a teacher with 20 years experience is going to get paid more that one with 5. She does have teaching responsibilities. I do think she is asking way too much money. On a side note-- Remember we have a certain woman who is asking for 50 million dollars from the U.S. government because her husband died of anthrax.
Actually, truth be known, a teacher of 20 years is probably going to be reduced in staff so they can hire one with less than five years and show the public how much money they saved in taxes which pay salaries.

How many times do you hear "they said" in the education profession. Ever wonder who "they" is?
Posted By: GRAPE APE Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/20/03 06:14 PM
Quote:
Actually, truth be known, a teacher of 20 years is probably going to be reduced in staff so they can hire one with less than five years and show the public how much money they saved in taxes which pay salaries.
The fact is seniority does count in teaching or coaching salaries. Are all teachers fired or let go once they reach a certain age or time of employment? No, none at my high school ever were. Yes it does happen but that was not my arguement.
Posted By: Westfahl Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/20/03 09:29 PM
What was your point?
Posted By: Westfahl Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/20/03 09:32 PM
Hey Hovpen.... The Big Twelve made about 12 Million last year on the bowl games alone. Thats the conference as a whole. Take a look at the total money the TV packages all inclusive comes to in this country every single year. Talking about Billions of dollars here. Now factor in the dollars TV pays to do Volleyball. Football is subsidized???? YOu bet it is, by TV. They make a fortune or they wouldn't play it. The motivator is money. It should be attached to the NCAA logo$
Posted By: Hovpen Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/20/03 10:19 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Westfahl:
Hey Hovpen.... The Big Twelve made about 12 Million last year on the bowl games alone. Thats the conference as a whole. Take a look at the total money the TV packages all inclusive comes to in this country every single year. Talking about Billions of dollars here. Now factor in the dollars TV pays to do Volleyball. Football is subsidized???? YOu bet it is, by TV. They make a fortune or they wouldn't play it. The motivator is money. It should be attached to the NCAA logo$
If I remember the research I did when I did an original article on this, only about 85 Division I schools make money on their football programs. That is a far cry from the schools that support the program. And, the Big 12 is only 12 of those schools. (There are 12 schools aren't there. You never know with some of these conferences.) Yes, somebody makes money off of it. How much TV revenue did Pitt State, Ft. Hays, Kansas Wesleyan, and Emporia State get last year?
How much did KU make last year on their own?
Posted By: hasbeen Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/20/03 11:47 PM
Hovpen 85 out of 115 schools. That is 74% of DI programs that are in the green. According to my research the average DI school makes 4 million on football and basketball (as of the late 1990's). How much on volleyball? There are no statistics because no one wants to point out that they don't generate anything.
Posted By: sportsfan02 Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/21/03 12:18 AM
Here is the story on D1 athletic budgets http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/college/orl-sptbudgetcht09020903feb09,02135191.htmlstory?
Posted By: Hovpen Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/21/03 12:20 AM
try that link again, that one isn't around
Posted By: sportsfan02 Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/21/03 12:22 AM
Sorry I tried that link and it has been archived already. I have it saved on my desk top but don't know how to move it here.
Posted By: Westfahl Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/21/03 02:23 AM
Hey KU still made money if it was just their football program that they were playing for but it isnt. They are supporting those womens programs that you are so diligently defending. So you are going to critisize football programs for not being able to support all those other sports and still call them the culprit. Pretty funny dicotomy there don't you think.
Posted By: Hovpen Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/21/03 03:17 AM
Well, I'm not defending anything, but I will to the death cause my daughter played if you want me to. I meerly stated that not all football programs make money, and they don't
Posted By: Westfahl Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/21/03 03:22 AM
Well there you go. You have a vested interest in it. Thats what I said in the other thread if I had a girl in sports maybe I would argue it too. I am all for girls athletics I just don't want to see a two thousand year old sport scuttled in this country to help them. We scrapped to get what we had let them do fundraisers and beg for money the way we had to. Power to them.
Posted By: Hovpen Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/21/03 03:25 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Westfahl:
Well there you go. You have a vested interest in it. Thats what I said in the other thread if I had a girl in sports maybe I would argue it too. I am all for girls athletics I just don't want to see a two thousand year old sport scuttled in this country to help them. We scrapped to get what we had let them do fundraisers and beg for money the way we had to. Power to them.
Been there, done that
And pardon, as a former AD for four years, I've seen more than my share of fundraisers
Posted By: GRAPE APE Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/21/03 05:32 AM
I don't want to lose a 2000 year old sport for them? Are you kidding? You are blaming women for wrestling being eliminated. How about we just eliminate women from sports, then wrestling would stay alive. We should then take the women who want to be athletes and shoot. Hitler uh I mean Westfahl, the world does not evolve around you and wrestling, get a life. Find someone else to blame.
Posted By: GRAPE APE Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/21/03 05:34 AM
We should then take the women who want to be athletes and shoot them.
Posted By: Westfahl Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/21/03 05:55 AM
Very intelligent quote there. If you can't think of something to say just resort to the absurd. Nice going. Might rephrase that and say let them do it the old fashioned way and earn it or at the very least look at the rule with some common sense involved and not harm things that good people have worked so hard to build.
Posted By: Westfahl Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/21/03 05:59 AM
by the way this is a wrestling board. I am sure there is a womens volleyball board you might feel more fullfilled on. You get testy when you argue a point don't you. Lots of junk on that post of yours. Why does wrestling have to be sacrificed for the sake of womens athletics? Your the one that opened that up. Hitler huh... wow that is creative. Been called a lot of things in my time but that wasnt one of them. I won't stoop to that sort of thing here, I will however continue to think that we have been harmed by this rule and I will say so even if it means I have to be called some rediculous degrading name to do so.
Posted By: Westfahl Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/21/03 06:11 AM
By the way isnt this the point where I am supposed to stick out my tongue at you or do that little sticks and stones line or something. I feel like I should be really juvenile to reply to that Hitler deal but for the life of me I can't remember how that goes. What do you say Sands I am sure you can help me with that response.
Posted By: Mike Furches Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/21/03 12:30 PM
I've been reading this thread for the last couple of days with some interest. I coached All American wrestler James Short in soccer in high school. James signed with Clemson University for wrestling, red shirted his first year and during the summer the wrestling program folded and he never wrestled a match for them. He later went to Purdue and now wrestles for the Army. That did not change the fact that a top 5 wrestling program in the country, who was making money, went under because of Title IX. The truth be known, wrestling has been hurt by this law and its interpretation and many more programs will be if the law is not changed. Regarding programs making money, football, etc. It is a myth that the majority of programs don't make money. I challenge that most any program which is successful, in any sport, any level, any sex, will have the potential to make money. There are examples of this all across the board, women’s basketball at a large number of schools like Tennessee, LA Tech, Emporia State, etc.., women's soccer at North Carolina, etc... There are obvious exceptions like rowing, fencing, but I challenge that on any level, if programs lost large amounts of money that the schools from High School through College would drop those programs.

I do know that we all have the right to advocate for change regarding unfair laws or laws that hurt or hinder a particular interest of ours. Since this is a WRESTLING forum, I would hope that most would advocate for change to the law because of the harm done to our sport and it's athletes. While most sports receive the benefit of revenues from Basketball and Football, it is possible to turn women’s volleyball into a profit maker. A part of the coaches’ job is not just winning but marketing or producing revenues. This can be done in a number of ways including, scheduling, community events etc… Simply put, help put butts in the stands, make the money then you will get more money. If you are winning and people aren't coming to watch or are not buying your product, then your product just simply isn't worth it. For those of us who have coached, we will know and admit that we are/were not just coaches but we also had to be business people in order to succeed. Coaches will also know that if you are that good and are producing revenues for the school, then you are in a great place because of your, "fair market value." In other words, shools that can pay more, will, because they will want to lift their own revenues and reputation up.
Posted By: ksfan Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/21/03 01:32 PM
And the winner of this match by fall, Mr. Westfahl hopefully the lawsuit goes the same way.
Posted By: GRAPE APE Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/21/03 03:23 PM
Originally posted by Westfahl:
Quote:
I am all for girls athletics I just don't want to see a two thousand year old sport scuttled in this country to help them.
That sounds to me like something that happened during the civil rights movement:
"I am all for blacks being able to enter white establishments, just not the ones I'm in."

--sounds kind of similar to me.

I have a bunch of junk on this forum? Your not attacking title IX your attacking women. I didn't start this post I just thought there were a few people who needed to get a few things straight. And Mr. Westfaul did anyone disprove any of the things I said. No. But in your three posts in a row you actually admitted to wanting to attack title IX which was the only reason I really went this far on this post. Wrestling needs to be helped and revising title IX is where it's at.
Posted By: hasbeen Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/21/03 04:50 PM
I have an idea that will fix all Title IX problems!
Take sex out of athletics! Have all sports open to all sexes and the best athlete plays. If a woman is better at a sport than a male then she gets to play and if a male is better at a sport than a woman then he gets to play. This includes all sports from football, to softball, to wrestling, to gymnastics, etc...
This is the truest form of equality, because this way every person has a fair chance at an athletic scholarship regardless of sex. The BEST ATHLETE really gets the scholarship and the right to play.
This would teach lifelong lessons to athletes; as in the real life the most qualified person gets the job.
Just a thought.
Posted By: Hovpen Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/21/03 04:54 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by hasbeen:

The BEST ATHLETE really gets the scholarship and the right to play.
This would teach lifelong lessons to athletes; as in the real life the most qualified person gets the job.
Just a thought.
What real life are you living in. The bosses girl friend's second cousin usually gets the job.
Posted By: hasbeen Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/21/03 05:27 PM
Hovpen is that really the best comeback you have?
Reply to my whole idea.
Posted By: Hovpen Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/21/03 05:49 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by hasbeen:
Hovpen is that really the best comeback you have?
Reply to my whole idea.
Why
1. requires engaging brain
2. It's Friday
3. Girls already wrestle
4. How the heck did I get in on this, my son got screwed by title nine worse than anyone on here.
Posted By: FAN 67 Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/21/03 06:33 PM
I think one of the problems we have in college wrestling is the number of paying fans. I went to the Nebraska vs Arizona State match in Lincoln; about 500 fans. We had two Kansas kids wrestling that night (Murray & Klien)but I only saw a few Kansas people. I'm sure volleyball and softball get more paying fans than wrestling at Nebraska. I don't know all the exact numbers but I know volleyball is sold out when they play in the old barn (approx 6,000) and when they play at Devany Center (over 11,000) As much as I love wrestling it wouldn't take me long to figure out which sport to cut if I were the athletic director.
We all say we are big college wrestling fans, but when is the last time you've been at a match beside the national tournament. When is the last time you've donated any money to the wrestling program of your choice. We all wait until wrestling is being cut from a school, then we want to bitch at the athletic dept of that school. College athletics is and will be more in the future about money. If we want to save our sport, we need to put our money where our mouth is.
Posted By: GRAPE APE Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/21/03 06:56 PM
Thank you FAN 64. I'm glad there is someone who knows what it's going to take to get wrestling back where it needs to be. Why not stop there. Start promoting wrestling in your school. I know of teachers who gave their kids extra credit for attending after school plays. How about doing this for wrestling. You can key in some factor to make that experience educational. Have the wrestlers lay guilt trips on their friends making them come to the duals. There are many things that can be done but nobody seems to want to take the time and effort to do it.
Posted By: Westfahl Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/21/03 07:40 PM
Hey Sands, I wasn't trying to hide the fact that I am attacking title IX, I freely admit it, I hate the law and what it has done. Please don't confuse me with subtrifuge I am right up front about it. As far as disproving your points you haven't really made any except for an indefensible stand that everyone that is against what title IX has done is a woman basher and called me a few juvenile names. If you will say something with some substance to it I will be more than happy to disprove it for you.
Posted By: GRAPE APE Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/21/03 08:11 PM
POINT--Previosly posted by hsands:
Quote:
She only has over 600 wins in her career and over 450 at Emporia State.
She is a successful coach.

POINT--Previosly posted by hsands:
Quote:
So you are telling me that seniority plays no part in what someone is paid? I do agree that football has a higher salary and should have one as well as other sports with greater responsibilities. Look at teachers and how much they get paid, a teacher with 20 years experience is going to get paid more that one with 5. She does have teaching responsibilities.
Seniority does matter.

I called you a few juvenile names? ONE NAME

Previosly posted by hsands:
Quote:
Hitler uh I mean Westfahl, the world does not evolve around you and wrestling, get a life. Find someone else to blame.
I called you a woman basher? WHEN? TELL ME. QUOTE ME. PLEASE.

My main point. Title IX is the problem not women. Yes this may be indefensible but other people on this topic sure tried to attack it.
Posted By: Westfahl Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/21/03 08:22 PM
Seniority means nothing in college coaching. If they want you bad enough they pay you just ask Franchione down at Texas A&M. He makes about 1.5 mill and he just took the job. Boy wait till the womens volleyball coach gets hold of him huh. I think you made referance to "why don't you just shoot the girls athletes" or something to that affect. I think that might be construed as you thinking I was woman bashing. You got to admit calling me Adolf Hitler was just a little over the edge huh. Might have been one name but it was a doosy. So you think that seniority bit is the clincher huh? Nope...
by the way....are you a woman?
Posted By: Westfahl Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/21/03 08:24 PM
Oh by the way her 600 wins were in VOLLEYBALLLLL!
Posted By: GRAPE APE Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/21/03 08:38 PM
Previosly posted by Westfahl:
Quote:
Oh by the way her 600 wins were in VOLLEYBALLLLL!
WOW! That makes her a successful coach!

GREAT POINTTTTTTTT!
Posted By: GRAPE APE Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/21/03 08:47 PM
Why does it matter to you if I am a woman or not?
Are you coming on to me?
Posted By: Westfahl Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/21/03 08:49 PM
Answer the question. Are you a woman? And the point I was making is that it was VOLLEYBALL! Emporia State won the national debate championship, wonder if that guy is making the same as the football coach. You know sometimes I am thick headed but I think you know what I mean about it being VOLLEYBALL!!!
Posted By: Westfahl Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/21/03 08:52 PM
See there you go with an emotional response, coming on to you, lol. Can't fight the substance so you go with the old sexual harrassment bit huh. Probably a law suit in there somewhere huh.
Posted By: GRAPE APE Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/21/03 08:52 PM
Previosly posted by Westfahl:
Quote:
Seniority means nothing in college coaching.
OHHHH. Take two college basketball coaches. One coaches men's the other coaches women's. They are both equally successful. The men's coach has been there for 20 years the women's coach has been there for 5. Nine times out of ten the men's coach would receive more money.
Posted By: GRAPE APE Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/21/03 08:59 PM
REMEMBER you asked me if I was a woman. Did you answer my question? NO. Why does it matter?
LOOK. MY POINT WAS WHETHER SHE WAS SUCCESSFUL OR NOT. I SAID NOTHING ABOUT FOOTBALL, WHICH BY THE WAY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HER BEING SUCCESSFUL.
Posted By: GRAPE APE Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/21/03 09:02 PM
Previosly posted by hsands:
Quote:
I do agree that football has a higher salary and should have one as well as other sports with greater responsibilities. Look at teachers and how much they get paid, a teacher with 20 years experience is going to get paid more that one with 5. She does have teaching responsibilities. I do think she is asking way too much money.
I already said that.
Posted By: Westfahl Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/21/03 09:16 PM
So let me see if I have your point. Football has nothing to do with it, the vested interest you have being a woman has nothing to do with it, now we are talking about just basketball vs. basketball even though the suit is volleyball vs. football really, and you think Title IX sucks too. Wow you really do meander don't you. See I didn't even mention that you called me Hitler, wanted to know if I was coming on to you (which I thought was really kind of high schooly), and intimated that I thought women athletes should be shot. Do I about have all of your really meaty points summed up here. I got it. You are right Title IX sucks. I think that is the only real concrete thing I was able to glean from all this, that and you are really nifty with those little cut and paste deals. Very impressive. Now are you a woman and if so are you ashamed of it?
Posted By: Westfahl Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/21/03 09:16 PM
So let me see if I have your point. Football has nothing to do with it, the vested interest you have being a woman has nothing to do with it, now we are talking about just basketball vs. basketball even though the suit is volleyball vs. football really, and you think Title IX sucks too. Wow you really do meander don't you. See I didn't even mention that you called me Hitler, wanted to know if I was coming on to you (which I thought was really kind of high schooly), and intimated that I thought women athletes should be shot. Do I about have all of your really meaty points summed up here. I got it. You are right Title IX sucks. I think that is the only real concrete thing I was able to glean from all this, that and you are really nifty with those little cut and paste deals. Very impressive. Now are you a woman and if so are you ashamed of it?
Posted By: GRAPE APE Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/21/03 09:48 PM
No the suit is not volleyball vs. football. Go back and read it again.
No you don't have my points. I already posted them twice. How many times do you need to see them? You give me a good reason why me being man or woman has anything to do with this topic and I will tell you.
I will say it again. Football has nothing to do with her being a successful coach as I said before. Does it? Please tell me how it does?
Posted By: Westfahl Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/22/03 12:13 AM
The basis for her law suit deals with a one year head coach in football making 60 and her making 40 and her perceived slights by administration relating to her program vs. the football program and to a lesser degree some other mens sports. That is exactly the premis of her law suit. I have a pretty good understanding of that type of suit. Now the text of our argument took a few different turns which I have barely been able to keep up with. The fact that you are a woman commenting on a wrestling board has a very real significance in that you are trying to stradle some fence between appeasement of this board in sort of a half hearted critisizm of Title IX and some notion that you being a woman has nothing to do with the idea that "maybe you should shoot womens athletes". I am baised because I am a man and I am a life long wrestling person, I admit that and I am not trying to hide here and say I am not. Now come on fess up.... come out come out wherever you are...
Posted By: GRAPE APE Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/22/03 01:05 AM
From the title IX article:
Quote:
In a news release from Henning’s office, Mehus claims that she is paid $15,000 to $20,000 less a year than her “male head coach colleagues at Emporia State University.”
Quote:
Mehus is the fifth-highest paid head coach of the nine head coaches in the ESU athletic department. Dave Wiemers, who just completed his second season as ESU’s head football coach, earns $63,000 annually. Brandon Schneider, in his fifth season as women’s head basketball coach at ESU, earns $61,327. David Moe, in his second season as men’s head basketball coach at ESU, earns $60,008.
MALE HEAD COACH COLLEAGUES. Note that colleagues is plural meaning more than one.

Note the football coach just finished his second season.

Note the haed football coach makes just over 2000 more than both the head basketball coaches.

How is this mainly directed at the football coach?

OK. Answer this if I do tell you I am a woman what is that going to accomplish? Nothing.

You still haven't given me any good reason why I should tell you.

It must really get to you that you don't know.

OH, and also admitting you can't keep up with me is not a very good reason to dodge the majority of the questions I give you.
Posted By: Westfahl Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/22/03 01:31 AM
You win I don't really care what you are or why you are so strenuously defending a womans coach on a mostly male wrestling board, and heaven knows I can't keep up with your highly flexible agenda. You think she is getting screwed, I think its a frivolous lawsuit based on a really lousy premis, title IX. The reason Coach Lane posted it was that it was of interest to wrestling people everywhere as is anything that concerns Title IX. As for your questions, for the life of me I can't identify any of them, as far as I can see you have everything figured out to your satisfaction. Good for you. The suit aside she is jealous of everyone at that school that is a different sex than she is, and she wants it all, even if she is coaching one of the most minor sports on campus. She is woman she is strong seems like I heard that song before. As for the rest of your petty little arguments, I am glad we agree that Title IX sucks. You did hint at that didnt you, I mean at some point? Hey I don't really care what you think, I mostly been posting to watch you get hot. Hope you enjoyed the banter.
Posted By: GRAPE APE Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/22/03 02:16 AM
I didn't hint at it, I posted it bright and clear.

Now, Since we have come to a draw I will say something that is high schooly but also kind of funny.

You are watching me get hot? Sick.

I hope you have enjoyed watching me.
Posted By: Westfahl Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/22/03 03:25 AM
What a rare wit you are. Not a very good debater but good wit and it wasnt a draw lady. YOU LOSE
Posted By: GRAPE APE Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/22/03 03:59 AM
No I am just tired of breaking down all of your mistakes that you make. You can be sure to get the last word in.

Please stop watching me get hot your frightening me.

Just curious if you have one of those webcams, to watch others as well.
Posted By: Westfahl Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/22/03 04:13 AM
Anyway for those of you that want to be serious about this topic, Kevin Kietzman is doing another show up here during the tourney week and he is going to have several of the divison I coaches on his show to talk about this topic. Might be interesting to listen to. He is going to be doing a live hook up from the Kemper I hear and they are going to get into what has happened to some of the programs and what they are trying to do in relation to Title IX.
Posted By: Koberlein89 Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/22/03 05:14 AM
Wow!!! Westfahl, you took that well. It was a long read by the way as I haven't been keeping up on it. She called you Hitler and accused you of sexually harrassing her before she quit. Typical ploy and you handled it well. I would suggest to you however, that she sexually harrassed you first because I have a strange feeling that even though she so nonchalantly threw out Hitlers name, she would strongly oppose present day action against dictators that bear a strong resemblance. You might make the assumption, then that she was complimenting you and with her strong overtones of "hot", she is attempting to try the old reverse post-Freudian play simply to get to know you better.
Posted By: Westfahl Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/22/03 06:01 AM
Ahh I have thrown out better lolll. How you doin man. How is your team doing at the regional? I hope really well. As for that other deal, I don't really think some people understand how injured the wrestling community is over TIX. Oh well, I just didnt want to sink to that level that he/she/it was joking around to. I am serious about the title 9 thing and I hope something gets done about it soon. Good luck tomorrow.
Posted By: Westfahl Re: Title IX article and a local school - 02/22/03 06:03 AM
By the way that was pretty darn impressive. I taught Psych for fifteen years and I still can't spell that guys name.
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