Kansas Wrestling
Bring your team to Kansas! Last year nearly every out of state high school coach who brought his team to KS took home a trophy. So, if your guys need a little pumping up and your trophy case is looking a little bare, the Jayhawk state is the perfect remedy. Here's what teams from other states did to us this year.

Gardner--Omaha Burke, NE 1st
Colby--Chaparral, CO 1st
Sabetha--Auburn, NE 1st
SMNW--Platte County, MO 1st
Derby--Omaha Burke, NE 2nd
SMS--Platte County, MO 2nd
Bonner--Bellevue, NE 1st
Norton--Cozad, NE 2nd
Scott City--Hastings, NE 2nd
Basehor--Glenwood, IA 2nd
Baldwin--Oak Park, MO 1st
Garden City--El Reno 1st, Ponderosa, CO 2nd, Amarillo, TX 3rd
Why would you take the time to look all that up?
Quote:
Originally posted by gutwrench1:
Pretty soon I'm going to reveal who I am and make you feel like idiots.
We are still waiting.
Why post this on a KANSAS forum if you are talking to coaches from other states? Gut, we are all getting sick of your bashing of KS. We know you think KS sucks, move on to something else or do something about it. I am still waiting for the dates and location for your takedown clinic.

By the way, according to amateur wrestling news these teams are in the top 40 of the nation.

El Reno, OK (7)
Oak Park, MO (16)
Ponderosa, CO (36)

So, they would probably bring home a trophy from whatever tournament they attend.

Oh yeah, I believe that those three teams also won their state tournaments.
It should be mentioned that Bartlesville, OK got NOTHING from the Caney Valley Kan-Okla tourney. Teams 1/3 their size kicked their butt.
I think Gut has it backwards ST Francis went to 3 CO tourneys and 1 NE tourney. Brought home 1st place trophy from all of them.
if I'm not mistaken Perry Ok went to Newton TOC and took 5th then went back to Ok and won the state tourney in their division.
Hey Gut -- I'm working on bringing my kids to Kansas in a year or two (once we run out some contracts). Maybe Richard will come and visit me! I can only hope!!!
I think Platte County, MO won Class 2 State.


Shawnee Mission South Results – 2004-05

Saint Thomas Aquinas - 283.5
Platte County, MO - 199
Topeka Seaman - 176
Lawrence - 131
Bishop Meige -95
Olathe East - 91
Shawnee Mission South - 83.5
Shawnee Mission East - 83.0
Atchison - 77
Topeka West - 40.5
Schlagle - 23
Washington – 10

State Place and Class Within State – 2004-05

Saint Thomas Aquinas - 1st – 6A
Platte County, MO – 1st – Class 2
Topeka Seaman – 7th – 5A
Lawrence – 14th – 6A
Bishop Meige – 28th – 5A
Olathe East – 22nd - 6A
Shawnee Mission South – 23rd - 6A
Shawnee Mission East – 17th - 6A
Atchison - 51st - 4A
Topeka West – 26th – 5A
Schlagle – 28th – 5A
Washington – 32nd – 5A

I like the team concept for wrestling year round.
Quote:
Originally posted by pennywise#2:
Why post this on a KANSAS forum if you are talking to coaches from other states?
Poor gutstench was destroyed in his opinions about individual wrestling in Kansas so now he tries to take on the quality of the teams. This idiot is one we need to keep around to remind us why we love living in Kansas so much.
If I was still a recruiter for a Division One program, I'd have to say there is a good handfull of Kansas boys I'd be trying hard to get this year. In fact I've been contacted this year by Brands, John Smith, Mark Manning, Bobby Douglas, Jimmy Zalesky and other coaches regarding current Kansas seniors.

Cornejo, Taplin, and Baldridge would be at the top of my recruiting list, and the list wouldn't end there.
gutwrench1 probably voted no april 5th 2005 unless he is really from mo,co, etc...
What are you trying to say Mike?
I have heard some rumors going around regarding ol' gutwrench's identity. I don't know if it is true or not, but I have heard it was former Coach Sonderegger from Shawnee Mission East.

If this is not true, I am sorry Mr. Sonderegger.
HAHAHAHA I think what Mike Church Sr. is referring to is the "Gay Marriage Ammendment" proposal voted on on April 5th in which gutwrench must have voted no to saying he wants an Ammendment allowing gay marriage meaning he's gay!!! Funny crap man.
If you were as good as these schools wouldn't you also look for the best competition around- that is why they come to Kansas. I have to admit that watching this great sport and seeing the level we have kids at is unbelievable. Hats off to all coaches and their work with the youth.
Competition is competition. Sometimes schools travel to see other teams as well as good competetion. Norman HS (OK) finished 6th at the Salina South tournament.
Gutless-wrench

I’m really tired of your crap! I’m sending out a personal challenge to you. You come on down to Basehor-Linwood High School next Tuesday around 6:30 for our Freestyle practice and I’ll teach you a little about what Kansas coaches teach in wrestling practice. I’m not in the Hall of Fame like you, but I suspect I can do just fine.

Hope to see you there Gutless.

Coach Neil
Let me interupt these personal attacks to say....guys, you're so darn gullible. And that's what makes it fun. But I do have a purpose and that is to yank you from whatever academic/coaching/ref perch and power trip you might be on to challenge you to think about improving the KS approach to wrestling. These are wide sweeping generalities and there are lots of exceptions, but the strategy of simply riding guys out isn't very sound, at least to me. Your better teams are falling behind other state teams who come to KS because you don't spend enough time coaching good skills from neutral. I haven't seen a good high crotch in KS since Dyer graduated, a duck under since Bunch, never seen anyone from KS do a Koll roll. Now, please resume your personal attacks, disregard my message and return to your sheltered existence.

Your in wrestling,

Gutwrench1
Once again gut,

When are the dates and locations of your takedown/neutral position clinic so that we can improve the quality of KS wrestling on their feet?
Gut - I think maybe the rhetoric around here does need to be toned down a couple of notches but there are better ways to get honey than just giving the ole bee's nest a good whack. I think you want to see Kansas kids excel, as we all do, but I think you would agree that there is SOME good neutral wrestling going on in Kansas. I watched our 112 lb kid bump up to 119 for Brute and put on a takedown clinic on an Iowa kid in the Semi's. Iowa was a stud and there was no way he was going to get turned until he got caught a little out of position on a take-down and straight to his back he went. That was some good mat wrestling set up by some good footwork. Is there room for improvement in Kansas wrestling? Sure. Should we be looking at ways to improve? Yep, but all in all I would say that Kansas is holding her own pretty good.
kswrcoach ,
I don't know a gutwrench. I also don't know your identity. I heard rumor that you might be Michael Jackson formerly of the Neverland Ranch. If not ,I'm truly sorry.

Coach Sonderegger
nice credit to KS style from the MO fans on their site.

subject: STALLING!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

They STALL! Ok, I said it! But, what is a "stall" anyway? The way they use it, it's just another form of Offense. Yeah, St. Louie Refs would have a field day calling STALL after STALL (at the MO-KAN Classic). But they would be run out of town before the night was over. KAN Wrestlers STALL just enough to lull you into an Offense then they HIT YOU with a power-counter, counter-scramble, and if you aren't ready to rumble, they'll spoil your day.

fudge tunnel

That's one KS can do....is ride on top.....I hate giving KS any kind of due - **** Jayhawkers.

it's fun to watch the KS fans scream and cry on the other side - like last year when Shaffer pinned a 2x state champ in the first period. It's definitely worth the time to check it out.
_________________
Who'd he pin last year? What classification was he?
Why don't we setup an All-Missouri vs. All-Kansas wrestling show down. The whole state involved and then we'll show you who is the boss. The state of Kansas has some weaker wrestling in the KC-Metro area as compared to the rest of the state. Unlike Missouri where the best wrestling is in the KC-Metro area, so not a good comparison there.
all of missouri thinks we're not good huh?

MartyAz


Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 18

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 9:41 pm Post subject: KAN CAN

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Those KAN "boys" CAN wrestle and rumble and scramble and win. Do not underestimate them, no, no, no. I really admire their toughness and athleticism. Any of the MO "boys" overlook any one of the KAN boys or show up not ready to grapple will (can) be upset. There is no quit in them KAN boys, even when behind in the last period. Some of our most "elite" MO wrestelrs have had their skills and wills severely tested.

where'd that come from?
subject: STALLING!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

They STALL! Ok, I said it! But, what is a "stall" anyway? The way they use it, it's just another form of Offense. Yeah, St. Louie Refs would have a field day calling STALL after STALL (at the MO-KAN Classic). But they would be run out of town before the night was over. KAN Wrestlers STALL just enough to lull you into an Offense then they HIT YOU with a power-counter, counter-scramble, and if you aren't ready to rumble, they'll spoil your day.

fudge tunnel

That's one KS can do....is ride on top.....I hate giving KS any kind of due - **** Jayhawkers.

it's fun to watch the KS fans scream and cry on the other side - like last year when Shaffer pinned a 2x state champ in the first period. It's definitely worth the time to check it out.

funny that the only credit on the Missouri Site is from a guy that posts on here and reads everything we write.....
O MY GOD MISSOURI DOESN'T LIKE THE WAY WE WRESTLE!!!!
I don't really care about what MO thinks about Kansas wrestling...so I dont know why you had to bring that up Gutwrench

PS: I hate you
I don't know what your talking about when it comes to us having no use for being good at riding. I feel like I'm good on my feet, but I'm also good on top. There have been a couple of times when I was unable to take my opponent down in the first period, and I was unable to win the coin toss, I was forced to ride the guy out so I didn't give him the first choice in the second overtime. And how many college matches have been won because of the riding time point.

And if you haven't seen a good high crotch done in a while, I ask you to watch me wrestle sometime. I think I can hit some pretty nice one's, and you can say that Kansas kids don't count, but I did some pretty nice one's at nationals. And just so you know I wrestled guys from Missouri, California, Iowa, and Oklahoma, good wrestling states.

And wanting to see a high crotch may help the argument established by Mike Church.
Gutwrench is in the Hall of Fame??? Oh yeah, I remember...Building built by Gutwrench, Rawlings and Farber Construction Co.

Give me a break...if you are really interested in improving KS wrestling AND you are in the Hall of Fame, why isn't your attitude more positive and instructional, rather than (your words) challenging, sarcastic and the use of "caustic wit".

Without sounding repititive, arguing with this guy and acbulldog is much like throwing peanuts to the monkeys, it just makes them come back for more. What a waste of time and energy, which could probably be spent helping wrestlers improve their style of wrestling...wasn't that your point?

Your point got hopelessly lost in your attempt to anger and infuriate...congratulations!
INTERNET TROLL ALERT = gutwrench1
Internet Trolls
Here's the dumb part; Gutwrench has tried to be positive and instructional. He tried to point stuff out that should be corrected. But rather than pay attention you guys all got defensive and insulting --- how dare he suggest that Kansas wrestling is not THE ABSOLUTE BEST IN THE WORLD???!!!!!

I'm not going to say who's right or wrong and I'm not going to start a whole other argument. But for crying out loud, have an open enough mind to actually listen in the first place and we won't get these threads that turn into elementary school arguments.

And as far as the stats at the top of the page, one question: Were they wrong? That's all I'm asking; were they wrong?
No one ever said Kansas wrestling was the best in the country, in fact nobody has ever suggested that. However gut seems to think that we are somewhere near the bottom based on "our" style which really isn't "Kansas" style, there are plenty of teams in Kansas that are known for being good neutral wrestlers. I think our national results this year speak for the quality of wrestling. Not only that but Mr. Akin himself who has far more authority in the world of whos qualified to wrestle in gut's sacred DI level even admits that he would recruit many kids from this very state. So to that I will speak on behalf of Kansas, and I will apologize to Gutwrench for us not being the Number 1 wrestling state in the country, because apprently we don't wrestle the way he thinks we should.
VS Vike Coach: How do you expect our state too take it when some guy we don't even know starts telling us that our style of wrestling is wrong, and that any other state that wants a trophy should come here. I think we have a right to get defensive.
I agree with Curtis here on a serious tone. How would you take it, if someone you didn't know came into your wrestling room and was telling you that you cannot coach, you're doing it all wrong, and starts explaining to you about every little detail you're doing wrong and how it should be fixed, then you hear them tell their wrestlers that if they want medals they should wrestle your team because it's inferior to theirs and will dominate them and win in every matchup.
Can you honestly tell me that you would find no offense in that and just let it happen? No you can't, you'd ask for credintials and then tell them to leave.... am I not correct?
Quote:
Originally posted by VS Vike coach:
Here's the dumb part; Gutwrench has tried to be positive and instructional. He tried to point stuff out that should be corrected. But rather than pay attention you guys all got defensive and insulting --- how dare he suggest that Kansas wrestling is not THE ABSOLUTE BEST IN THE WORLD???!!!!!

I'm not going to say who's right or wrong and I'm not going to start a whole other argument. But for crying out loud, have an open enough mind to actually listen in the first place and we won't get these threads that turn into elementary school arguments.

And as far as the stats at the top of the page, one question: Were they wrong? That's all I'm asking; were they wrong?
Vikes the dumb part is when gutstench started the initial thread all Kansas coaching and wrestling sucked. His position, after being confronted changed to the only good wrestlers produced in Kansas were those that had wrestled for Klemm. When the stats (many posted by gutstench himself) showed Kansas to be excelling on a national level then he moves on to the quality of teams. I don't think anyone minds objective critiques of Kansas wrestling but this guy has no clue. I don't believe from what he has said that he has ever coached in Kansas. As to his being a member of the Hall Of Fame well hey, this is the internet, aren't we all members of the Hall? This guy is likely someone from a neighboring state just trying to cause trouble.
wow...............

Now what side of the coin are we talking about?

gutwrench1 Member Member # 4202 posted March 09, 2005 03:05 PMMarch 09, 2005 03:05 PM Here's the other side of the coin to a subject I started about KS wrestling turning off DI coaches. These are the numbers of NCAA DI qualifiers by state. KS does exceptionally well for such a small state coming in at 13th with seven qualifiers. I believe those kids are Jacob Klein (4A),Shawn Bunch(6A), Joe Johnston (6A), Scott Coleman (6A), Justin Dyer (6A), Matt Murray (4A), Jake Kreigbaum (4A). Can't argue against facts like these. Kansas wrestlers are cutting it at the highest levels and more should have the opportunity to do so. These guys are a credit to their state.

superfly.......
Bronco -- you know what, I'll concede that point to you. I suppose it is a little like having someone come in your room and ripping what you do. I really think gut's heart is in the right place; I think he wants to Kansas wrestling get better, but his approach can be abrasive.
This thread was created to counter an arrogance about KS wrestling being so much better than competition in the surrounding states. A lot of teams come into KS and do real well. I've encountered an attitude that will not tolerate criticism. I'm tolerant of everything but the intolerable. So yeah this is a bit in your face. I appreciate VS Vike's take on my commentary very much. He's right on. And, it's says a lot about the character of those of you who've tried to attack his credibility. He's been a perfect gentleman and made sacrifices for KS wrestling. Some of you have also denigrated Klemm on here which is mean-spirited, petty and wrong. I've had postive and critical takes about what I see going on in KS wrestling. I don't think KS wrestling "sucks". I thing some of your attitudes suck, though. I've been intimately involved in the sport here and elsewhere. I know all about wrestling from the top position as I pinned three guys at NCAAs enroute to my DI AA place and I placed in college nationals twice. I never tried to ride a single soul in college. I tried to pin them or I cut them loose to take them down. It can be easier to put a guy on his back from your feet or after five or six takedowns. There are a great many things positive happening for KS. But,let's not rest on our laurels. Don't be blind to what's painfully obvious to whomever is unbiased and watches a lot of KS wrestling. I'm holding a mirror up to some of you so you can see where your weaknesses are. By the length of these discussions, at least I know I'm getting you to read. A lot of you have an inferior strategy by trying to stall on your feet and win from the top, not all of you. A lot of you refs let the top guy simply ride for minutes at a time, not all of you. A lot of you coaches don't spend enough time in your practices from neutral and you should because more often than not that's where matches are won and lost. Though, not all matches are won and lost from the feet. I don't mind making you angry, but the real objective is to get you, wrestlers and coaches, to rethink your strategy. You cannot master all three positions, you have to make intelligent choices. Think about it this way, if you gave up all your practice time from the top to learn how to be able to go takedown's at a very high level equal to HS AA status and you knew how to escape, would that make you a higher calibur wrestler? Wouldn't it be better to have superb neutral skills and escapes, than moderate skills from all three positions? You control the pace of a match when you're the superior wrestler in neutral.
You claim to be an NCAA Division I All American, but again no proof, like all of your claims. Did you ever think that the teams that come into KS to wrestle are some of the best? Cozad, NE for instance, they are a usual powerhouse in NE for their class, Ponderosa hm.... Nationally Ranked as is Overland Park, so see it takes the best out of state competition to come into tournaments and take home hardware from the good tournaments. Until we get some proof of your ID and we can believe it we will accept you, until then you're just another computer user that can type
Quote:
I never tried to ride a single soul in college
That's why you were only an AA, not a Champion, I bet you ask any of the National Champs if riding is important, 75% will say yes, as evident by the 2004 finals where 7 of 10 matches had riding time scored? yes 2005 there were none, but sometimes rarities do happen......
Ride along little Bronco...right into obscurity.
gutwrench1: Why don't you just tell us who you are. Give us a reason to consider you a credible jerk. And if your trying to help our state progress towards more successful college wrestlers, why don't you do it in a nicer way. I'm sure you wouldn't like it either if we started telling other states to go to your state to win trophies. Why not post more topics like the last one you posted, people will respond better to those than they do to topics like this one.
Who cares what this fizzoool has to say. Rumor has it, his true identity is Richard Simons. Who knows?

Anuswrench1: "Obscurity" is such a big word for such a simple mind. I'm nearly impressed.
Quote:
Originally posted by martialartswrestler:
when you mess with "Little Bronco" there is a whole possee of people out there to take up for him.
Thank you, I know I may not be correct all the time, but I'm honest upfront and known, I at least have the decency to sign my name at the bottom of my posts, and apparently am respected at least just a little which is more than I can say for you gutwrench

Alex Ryan
I got your back Alex.
Sweet, that's #2, i'm forming quite the fan club.... but are you telling me that Chenoweth doesn't wrestle right, all he does is take people down? I bet you about anything he's rode some people in his career......
That I have. I rode Brandon Wise out the entire third period (without a single stalling call I might add) to seal the 4-2 victory and I rode out Jon Cook the entire third period (also without a stalling call) to seal the victory. Wise was the defending state champion and runner up this year and Cook took 5th at state this year. Those were pretty big matches that I rode them out and won because of it.
Well you don't see many coaches speaking up in here and that is because no one really knows what goes on in their wrestling room but them. I know from being a wrestler, being a fan and being a coach that no one truely knows or understands what happens in the wrestling room.

Many many kids come through the kids program and are coached several different ways in their life. In rural Kansas it could be a different coach every couple of years and to get people or coaches to commit to a long kids wrestling career is very tough in places.

When the kid gets to Jr. High I am sure they are all told how important it is to be the one getting the take downs. I haven't been around one coach that says - stall in neutral and pin from the top (except for me and a heavy weight or two). I know from the top position you can dominate your opponent many ways in the heavier weights and being on your feet when the other guy is 40 plus pounds heavier is very tough. The level the junior high kids are it is very different for each wrestler and sometimes you find it difficult to get them all thinking alike. Sure you can get strict and lose half the wrestling tteam which starts out at only 9 kids and probably lose your wrestling program in High School which only has 4 kids right now. Or you can encourage them to get better and show them the right and wrongs in wrestling. I am guessing we spend 2/3 of our time in Jr High showing take downs and drilling but that doesn't mean we are great at it by any means and maybe the ones that come from the kids program haven't been taught take downs wins matches yet they are kids that are the best in your program- so tell me what you do- change them and lose them or let them wrestle their style that has worked for years.

I think the kids program is very key and teaching the take down at this level is where we need to start. I would love to see these people that want to help Kansas wrestling come across Kansas and put on Take Down clinics for a small fee and not the high price most camps cost. I would send all my kids to a camp that was 30 bucks and they learn take downs- matter of fact have 3 of those a year and I will try and get them each time but spending 350 is not acceptable in areas where wrestling in not the primary sport. If you really want to help Kansas wrestlign get together some great High School wrestlers and put on Clinic all over the state that everyone can afford- The High School kids would learn from teaching and they would also be giving back to the sport they got so much help in as well.

So as a coach I would say that you can preach about wanting to help Kansas wrestling or you can get out and actually help kansas wrestling which is what much wrestling coaches are trying to do. Is there a coach out there that doesn't want their wrestler to get take downs- let me know
You are in Luck. I am doing a Takedown Clinic at Olathe NorthWest on Wednesday April 13 from 6 to 8pm. The price is $15. I will go over what I call an arsenal of Takedowns which every wrestler should have. I will also be going over some hand fighting techniques and drills. That will be the first hour and fifteen minutes and then fifteen minutes on the gut and thirty minutes of live wrestling.

It will be lots of fun and you can come and watch the Erisman Kid beat the wholly you know what out of me. The boy is just getting to big and strong for this lil' bald headed old man.

Now to the point of riding vs. taken em down.
Most the time if you know you can take some one down you let em up. If it is short time you ride them. Two things come to mind:

Being in physical shape to cut people and work hard enough to take an opponent down.

The other is the confidence to cut someone and know you are going to take them back down before time runs out.

If neither one is there, you are gambling when you cut someone.

Two more things and then I'll quit.

1. What do you all think is a good ratio for a coach in teaching, drilling, and going live in the 3 positions?

Neutral 55%
Bottom 25%
Top 20%

That would be mine for drilling, for teaching you have to spend more time on top because it is so technical, lots of steps. For going live more time on your feet. You get some top/bottom when someone gets the takedown. Which leads me to the point of when going takedowns how wrestlers just quit. That is the best time to get a pinning hold on someone or the best time to work for position to get away, but it leads back to the two main things physical shape and confidence.

Last, ol Gutwrench1 has really got a bunch of people wild up. This is better then General Hospital. Thanks for the entertainment!


Coach Tom Peterman
© Wrestling Talk Forums