Kansas Wrestling
Posted By: vikes Harrassment in Wichita - 02/24/02 04:42 PM
every year, I can't wait to get to Wichita and watch great wrestling and all the things that come with it like the flag ceremony and parades, etc, but the one thing that really upsets me is the way the fans, wrestlers and coaches are treated by the management. they consistantly bother the fans, harassing them, threatning them and bullying them for, i guess the reason to seem tough. My fans couldn't really enjoy the tournament because of security guards treating them like 2-year olds with rules. An example would be a grandmother of one of my wrestlers was told to sit down or be ticketed for getting out of her seat for 5 minutes to talk with her grandson in the isle. What crap. I could understand if the collseum was a nice place, but it's a dump. Another example that sticks out is a cheerleader, in uniform, is grabbed at the door going downstairs and asked if she is a cheerleader. What's that? She's in uniform. There is no excuse for grabbing a high school girl like that. Great job tournament, but horrible hospitality once again by the collisum.
Posted By: TLCARROLL Re: Harrassment in Wichita - 02/24/02 05:26 PM
I agree with you totally on this point. To go one step further I would like to say that the coliseum does not have facilities that are appropriate for the handicapped/disabled. They not only did not have much seating available for the handicapped/disabled, they also did not care about making sure they could get around. The handicapped parking was was such that you went in to the arena on the ground level and had to take the elevator up to the stands, but then security did not want to let the people go back down the elevator to return to their cars. The stated that only wrestlers and coaches were allowed downstairs. Handicapped people were supposed to go outside and all the way around the building to get back into their cars. What a joke. Maybe they need to look into another facility for future years where they are more accomodating to everyone. You have to have security, but there is a better way.
Posted By: topmiller Re: Harrassment in Wichita - 02/24/02 07:01 PM
I totally agree with your statements and one step further, The papers the wrestlers were given that gave us the times and suppose to be rules for the event to give to the parents were not followed. They stated in writing that coolers were allowed but must be kept under the seats with no glass containers. We challanged that with security and were told that was for wrestlers and was to be kept under the bleachers, come on like your suppose to have a lock on your coolers. We had a wrestler who went to get wieghed in the first night and just in that little area had his pants stolen. For an event of this size, there has to be a different place to hold with better hospitallity.
Posted By: jmadden Re: Harrassment in Wichita - 02/24/02 07:54 PM
I am not sure about this but I heard a rumor two weeks ago that the state was wanting to move anyway due to the excessive rent for the Coliseum.
Posted By: VS Vike coach Re: Harrassment in Wichita - 02/24/02 08:11 PM
After reading all of this, I guess I need to eat my words. For years, I have advocated the merger of the two State tournaments into a spectacular like the State track meet, with all classes at one site (in their own classes). But after reading about all the constant problems in Wichita, all I can say is Thank God for Hays. The 3-2-1As are fine right where we are; the rest of you have fun; we'll be just fine!

I'm a former media member and I've always heard what a nightmare that is for the members of the fourth estate. No, Hays is just fine (other than the five-hour drive one way). We little guys have it pretty good!
Posted By: wrestlingfan_dup2 Re: Harrassment in Wichita - 02/24/02 08:38 PM
TOPEKA EXPOCENTRE
Posted By: ccchs_wrestler_05 Re: Harrassment in Wichita - 02/24/02 09:04 PM
Salina Bicentennial Center
Posted By: dgp7575 Re: Harrassment in Wichita - 02/24/02 09:55 PM
Bramlege Coloseum in Manhattan
Posted By: vikes Re: Harrassment in Wichita - 02/24/02 11:25 PM
My advice is to get with your school and team and whoever was effected by this horrible display of hospitality and write KSHSAA. State the things that you felt were unacceptable behavior by the security and management. I am going to write them and also tell my fans to write as well. It makes me sick to see our kids and fans get treated this way after working so hard to get to this point in their season. It should be the most enjoyable experience not a negative one. The colliseum is a dump, lets move somewhere where we are wanted.
Posted By: VS Vike coach Re: Harrassment in Wichita - 02/24/02 11:33 PM
I agree with whoever it was that said Bramlege. Salina is vastly too small seating-wise, and the Expocenter is probably too far east. Bramlege and Manhattan has the seating, infrastructure, and even outside entertainment. At the sake of condridicting what I just said, try this one on:
Wrestle the 6A-5A-4A part of the tournament at Bramlege and the 3-2-1As at Ahern. Too much? OK, we'll stay in Hays. But get out of Wichita, please!
Posted By: lebowski Re: Harrassment in Wichita - 02/24/02 11:35 PM
I don't know if Manhattan enough hotel rooms to accomodate everyone. It is tough to find a hotel room in Witchita close to the place, I can only imagine what Manhattan would be like.
Posted By: kansas wrestling Re: Harrassment in Wichita - 02/24/02 11:42 PM
I have to say we have wrestled at both,and Hays is much better....wichita was not much fun.
Posted By: jmadden Re: Harrassment in Wichita - 02/25/02 12:16 AM
Wichita is also way too crowded. There isn't any good place for the kids to warm up. The floor is like ice or was the last time I was there. Hays is just fine. The indoor track around the lower level makes a real great place for warming up. I don't know that the Topeka location is any farther from the farthest NW point than Wichita is. I really don't know that it is built much better space wise than Wichita though. I remember having to drive to Goodland for state tourneys, Topeka wouldn't be bad. Bramlage also would be great I think. I guess I haven't ever been there. Please don't combine all 4. I never saw anything special about three being together. 2 and 2 maybe!!
Posted By: KCWrestlersMom Re: Harrassment in Wichita - 02/25/02 01:08 AM
The Expocentre is a great facility and the kids' state and nationals are always wonderful, but if you haven't been, let me tell you that their security are the contraband gestapo. You can not bring ANYTHING in. My son's grandfather was once made to dump a bottle of water out and told to refill it at the fountain, I have had diaper bags searched, camera bags, etc. They won't even let diabetic people bring their own food. You have to tell them ahead of time and they will arrange to have food for sale for these people. Unless you plan to run to your car every time you are hungry or thirsty or pay the exorbitant prices they charge, I see that as a big negative.

I would love to see State at Bramlage, and I really like the idea of 4A, 5A, 6A at Bramlage and 1-2-3 A at Ahearn, but I agree, the hotel space would be a big problem.

We were lucky to have not experienced the problems I've seen described, but we did encounter some rather cranky security people. I hope a good solution can be worked out.
Posted By: kansas wrestling Re: Harrassment in Wichita - 02/25/02 01:30 AM
321A is just fine at Hays,I would hate to see it move,so far everything has worked so why change it?
Posted By: VS Vike coach Re: Harrassment in Wichita - 02/25/02 02:25 AM
You're right, Hays is fine just the way it is. The FHSU folks do a great job and the hotels and resturants are wonderful. What the big schools do is up to them, but we're happy where we are.Thank you Hays!
Posted By: Mitch Beims Re: Harrassment in Wichita - 02/25/02 02:12 PM
I totally agree that we need to get out of the Coliseum. We had a manager harassed and kicked off the floor this year. Two years ago a wrestler was kicked out for sitting in the isle. It took begging and pleading by the coach and AD to get him back inside before his next match. I think the Wichita people have forgotten what the State Tournament is all about. State should be a very special event that honors these athletes for their hard work and dedication. The kids who make it to State deserve to be treated like kings. I feel they are treated like little children.
Personally, I would like to see 4A and 321A in Salina at the Bicentenial Center. I think Hays does an excellent job of puttin on a tournament, but most 4A schools are east of Salina and don't think they would vote to go out the Hays. 5A - 6A can go to Topeka's Expo or Century II in Wichita. Maybe even trade off every other year. I feel the tournaments would be more personable and fan friendly.
I am going to write the KSHSAA also and would urge others to do the same.
Posted By: ybsmall Re: Harrassment in Wichita - 02/25/02 02:34 PM
I agree Hays puts on a great tournament, moving it would accomplish nothing. I've been to Salina, and Topeka and they are not nearly as nice as at Hays. I actually live much closer to Salina and a little closer to Wichita and still would perfer to drive a couple extra hours to Hays and be treated well and enjoy a well run tournament.
Posted By: Les Brown Re: Harrassment in Wichita - 02/25/02 02:41 PM
I admit I am biased on the issue, but I too feel that it would be inappropriate to take the 3-2-1A from Hays. I realize that travel would make it tough to get 4A approval to join 3-2-1A in Hays. But, conversely, would it be appropriate to reward the Hays tournament staff and the fine merchants of Hays for their role in handling the best state tournament by stealing the tournament from them?
Posted By: Brent Lane Re: Harrassment in Wichita - 02/25/02 03:17 PM
The Wichita Coliseum has gotten to be a big dissapointment the past couple of years. The security either does too harsh of a job or not a good job at all. I think there were too many people on the floor that did not belong, but for one reason or another they got down. There were a couple of incidents in our section where a child and a lady vommited at different times and it was not cleaned up. We even had a fan harass a manager while she was trying to videotape matches. I did hear some rumors about a lease running out at the coliseum or it costing too much. I would like to know if that is true or not. I don't think there are any easy decisions when it comes to moving sites for the larger classes, but I do agree that we should leave Wichita.
Posted By: Ray Higley Re: Harrassment in Wichita - 02/25/02 08:00 PM
I am very pleased to see that others are upset about the role of security at the Colosium in Wichita during the 4-5-6A State tournament. Obviously there needs to be some restrictions on the the number of people who are allowed access to the ground level; however, a little humanity would go along way toward making the experience a postitive one for wrestlers and fans. Personally I would like to see the 4A teams in at a site by themselves. I find little time during the tournament to keep track of the 5 and 6A competititon. I know from talking to the 3-2-1A coaches they like the situation they have in Hays, so why change something that works? My primary consern in Wichita is the impersonal treatment that we as fans and participants receive by the event staff. I would like to encourage people to contact their high school activities directors and principals and express your thoughts on this. The state will can not respond to grievances that we as fans keep to ourselves. Ray Higley
Posted By: KCWrestlersMom Re: Harrassment in Wichita - 02/25/02 08:15 PM
Whatever ultimately happens, I would hate to see 4A by itself. Is Hays big enough to hold the whole tournament? I know many 4A schools in and around the Kansas City area whose students and supporters have many friends in the larger 5A and 6A schools. I would hate to miss seeing those divisions wrestle. We know wrestling parents have become accustomed to driving, I wouldn't mind a long drive for a great tournament. I think separating divisions further than they currently are would dull the shine of the ceremony. It's so neat seeing the awards on the three podiums. Please, KSHSAA, don't separate us any further.
Posted By: MES Re: Harrassment in Wichita - 02/25/02 09:20 PM
I have been to both sites for State. I haven't been to Wichita in a couple of years but I like Hays because of the fans / people that attend. You don't have a "ton" of people that HAVE to get on the floor where they don't belong like in Wichita. Seems like the people in Hays are friendly and more courteous. With only one class, there is more room and you don't have to fight the crowds. It makes it easier for wrestlers, coaches, fans, and event staff.

At Wichita, with some many people trying to get on the floor could be the reason for security being more insistent or "rude." They have a lot of people to deal with, with a lot of different attitudes.

I am not saying everything is perfect in Hays, some fans get upset with ref's calls, etc. but someone from their town or family quickly clams them down.

Just some thoughts as an old coach and now, wrestling fan.
Posted By: k stevens Re: Harrassment in Wichita - 02/25/02 11:04 PM
i must say that i have not had any of the problems that everyone is talking about. of course sometime security will harass people about being on the floor, but that is better than allowing everyone on the floor. i would rather be hassled than add more people to an already over-crowded floor.

as far as moving the tournament manhattan i think that is a horrible idea. i sincerely doubt the problems you are having will disappear at a different venue. these are the same problems i hear at any event. a more important issue is regarding accommodation for a state tournament. i know that hotel rooms are usually gone quickly in wichita, do you think that smaller towns with less surrounding cities to pick-up the excess will make eating and lodging easier. if people are unhappy at wichita, then you should talk to you coaches and they can address the proper channels to make sure that they are corrected next year.

kyle stevens
Posted By: TLC Re: Harrassment in Wichita - 02/26/02 01:04 AM
I agree that the Coloseum and its staff need to do a better job on regulating who is able to have access to the floor. I seen many ex-wrestlers and parents on the floor that have no reason to be down there. Some of our wrestlers were hasseled by the coloseum security while trying to get on the floor to warm up for matches while parents were let free to walk on through. I definately agree that the divisions need to be split up or moved to help prevent this from occuring.
Posted By: Kit Harris Re: Harrassment in Wichita - 02/26/02 03:23 AM
I did visit with Rick Bowden of the KSHSAA about this situation this weekend. Over the last several years I've heard growing complaints about the Kansas Coliseum in Wichita, particularly surrounding the facility, staff, and prices. Mr. Bowden said the 4A-5A-6A State tournaments will be back at the Coliseum one more year to finish out the contract. At that point, the KSHSAA will consider the possibility of am alternative venue. He said he has received a large number of complaints regarding the tournament at the Coliseum. FYI

Personally, my biggest complaint about the state tournament is the length. I think if we are able to put down four mats per classification, this would speed things along some, perhaps cutting off 2-3 hours of total time. I think we need to make things as friendly as possible for those most important to our sport. . .the kids and their families. Having them in gymnasiums for 10-12 hours every Saturday makes for a long season, especially for those not as "gung-ho" about wrestling as us coaches and a select few wrestlers/parents. We need to get them out of the gyms while it is still daylight as often as possible.

Starting the Saturday state finals around 2 or 3 p.m. instead of 6:30 would be a good move. Perhaps four mats would allow us to accomplish this. This is why I think we should join the 4A and 3-1A tournaments and the 5A and 6A tournaments in a site that can lay down 8 mats, regardless of where we choose.

Hays sure seems like a long haul for Eastern 4A schools, I think that would cut down tremendously on the number of fans they would be able to get to come out and support them. Salina seems like a good geographical fit, but it also seems like everyone I talk to has nothing but positive things to say about the tourney in Hays. Maybe it can rotate every few years, just some thoughts.

Congratulations to all the wrestlers who accomplished their goals this year. And to those who fell just short, be proud of yourselves for pursuing your dreams with courage and valiance. The overall experience helps you to become the men you wish to ultimately become.

Regards,
Kit Harris
Baldwin HS
Posted By: wrestlingfanatic Re: Harrassment in Wichita - 02/26/02 04:11 AM
I think that were they hol teh 4-5-6A tournemt is fine. i am from a 4A school bu tlove watching the 5 and 6a scools wrestle. I think thy should keep it the way it is but get different security at the collisium. they don't aloud people to bring in out side food but the funny thing is that we always sneak it in. but most poeple do that. I know that know other place in Kansas is big enough to hold the 4-5- and 6a state tourmanemt. I think they schould renew there contract. its pretty easy for the eastern schools to get to Wichita so don't make it any farther away its far enough away!!!!!!! I enjoy watching all three classes at the tournament. its enat getting tosee the other wreslters from different classes that are wrestlers have wreslted in different tournaments!!!!!
Posted By: wrestlerdad Re: Harrassment in Wichita - 02/26/02 01:29 PM
As far as the distance for eastern kansas schools I don't think that is a factor. It takes about 3 hours to get from Topeka to Hays. And it takes about 2.5 hours to get from Topeka to Wichita. But I think the big question is, why mess with the 3-2-1a tournament because of problems with the 6-5-4a. The 3-2-1a tournament is great so leave it alone. They only use three mats so I don't think you could add the 4a schools without major time problems. And why should they move it away from Hays obviously the big schools didn't want their's there to start with. Now they see the smaller schools going well and want to take over! Leave a good thing alone. Change the 6-5-4a tourney if you want but leave the 3-2-1a alone.
Posted By: VS Vike coach Re: Harrassment in Wichita - 02/26/02 02:01 PM
Being about as far east (Leavenworth) as you can get from Hays, let me say that neither myself, my wrestlers or our fans mind one bit going out there. Yes, it's a rather long, boring trip, but it's State. If State were being held in the Antarctic, we'd happily go. If distance is the issue, then it's a pretty low priority. Even little Immaculata has it's loyal following of fans that would go to Garden City to watch (not that I'm suggesting that).
The issue, and the only issue, about location should be -- as Kit Harris so correctly put it --what's best for the kids. I would hate to see 3-2-1A combined with any of the other classes, but on the other hand if that would be better for the kids and the progress of the sport in this state, so be it. Hays would not be big enough for more than one class, either.
It sounds to me as if Wichita has blown it as far as keeping the big schools after next year. I only hope that a good solution can be found. But we "little guys" are very happy in Hays; even with the long drive!

Jeff Holmes
Immaculata High School
Posted By: gottagolambo Re: Harrassment in Wichita - 02/26/02 02:29 PM
Amen Dad! To add mats and people to the Hays tournament would only take away from it. If the larger schools what the same special relationship with a venue they need to go out and create one, say 4a with salina 5a with Mannhattan 6a with Topeka.
Posted By: kansas wrestling Re: Harrassment in Wichita - 02/26/02 03:35 PM
321A shouldn't leave Hays,while spoil a good thing,everyone is happy there,I say leave it alone,could it really get much better?Let the bigger schools resolve their problems and find another place but leave us out of it!
Posted By: VS Vike coach Re: Harrassment in Wichita - 02/26/02 03:43 PM
The only kind of State tournament I was ever used to before coming to Kansas five years ago was all-emcompassing, three-day extravaganza with all three classes (and about 300 schools) in Des Moines, Iowa. Every session would have anywhere from 10,000 to 14,000 fans in the seats at any one time, with eight mats going non-stop. It was exciting, it was a rush and it was an unforgetable experience I went through from a very young age on.

Coming to Kansas in 1997, the system here took some getting used to, but over the last few years I have come to realize that while it would be fun to have some of the other classes around, the tournament in Hays if fantastic. And while the TRADITION is to have all of the other classes together, perhaps it is time that -- like basketball -- we split the other three classes up and give them experience of being the center of their "universe" for a few days. As I have discovered since my move here, once you try it that way, you might just like it.
Posted By: jmadden Re: Harrassment in Wichita - 02/26/02 11:24 PM
3A and 4A both used to be in Hays. I think for a few years with 1982 the last. They just don't have motel space for both. If you wait until the last minute you have to go to Russell just for 3A.
I admit I love Hays and I have attended all but one state tourney in the last 30 years. It would be nice if 3A was farther east once in awhile so the less dedicated fans could attend, but I am quite content in Hays as I have been to Wichita. There is no comparison.
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