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I have recently been thinking about the chances in the future of an all classification state tournament in Wichita. One of the things many have said in the past is that having state around the state makes it difficult for college coaches to check out all of the talent. I think that while down the road, this would be possible. Wichita for example will have the following locations that could host a classification, for example, while not all classifications would be in one venue, it could be at various venues within the city.

Expected locations just in Wichita within the next few years, (notice seating approximations are just that, an approximation as I don’t have exact numbers:

Downtown Arena, seating approximation 17,000
Kansas Coliseum, seating approximation 9,000
Wichita State University, seating approximation 9,000
New Arena Near Kansas Coliseum, seating approximation 5,000

I don’t know if any other city in the state can offer this type of accommodation, hopefully with additional competition, both services, and prices could be reduced. Wichita also has enough motels and hotels to accomidate the crowds. What are your thoughts?

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One area of pride within Kansas is that we hold one of the largest State track meets in the Nation!! And it is quite an event!

But we have talked about combining our wrestling tourney many times ... but we should not let it die.

It is just not seating size but also floor space! Also, as stated, you rightly must consider the hotel rooms. But as others have said, if you extend to 3-days, you open up a lot of possibilities.

Your resistance will come from two fronts. First, I don't know the exact number, but I would suggest that perhaps 50% of the member schools would not be in favor of a combined tourney.

Second ... KSHSAA!


Last edited by usawks1; 08/06/08 07:06 PM.

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According to the 321A guys, there is NO WAY they will ever agree to move out of FHSU. Perhaps the best way to solve that issue would be to combine them with 4A. I laugh out loud as I write that because it is more likely that hell will freeze over! Statistically and economically that is what needs to happen but the maze created to get changes approved by KSHSAA will prevent that happening anytime soon.


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Rick bowden has said as long as FHSU has wrestling, they will host a state tournamnet. I agree with him to a certain extent, the support for that program is lacking sometimes and that is the way the KSHSAA gives back to them. With that said, one site would be a great event. The only arguement is that when 4,5,6A were all at the colliseum, quite franky was a situation that needs ALOT of improvement. The staff, the facility, weigh ins, the time schedule-kids in semi's not getting to eat until 11:00 pm. It was a mess and it took away from the "fun" of the big event of the year. The way it is now, done early on Fiday, kids can eat and enjoy the evening, start at 10 on Saturday, dont have to rush around, and on the road late to get back home. I just dont know if you can beat that in a 1 site venue. 3 days is an option, but then you get into the kids have never had to make weight in that situation before.

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Mike part of my point is that you will have at least 4 venues that could each host an individual state classification tournament. It wouldn't have to be in one site.

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If Colorado, Iowa, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Wisconsin, Indiana, Ohio, Missouri and many others all have single site state tournaments, why is so hard for us? Are we unwilling to learn from others? To me it is in the top five biggest problems with Kansas High School wrestling. Colleges won't send coaches to watch our state tournaments. On top of that I have been told by some college coaches that they view a Kansas High State Champ to be on par with a regional champ in other states because our competition is so watered down by too many classifications. (Please let the "we don't have very many wrestlers who want to wrestle in college" people start their bashing now.) The point is, if we didn't have so many classifications it would make it much easier to have all of the tournaments in one place.


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It is a shame that the state tourney's are so fragmented. I haven't been to the new single class state tourney's, but it has to be taking away from the atmosphere and the experience the kids have. It had the feel of a "huge" event when all classes were together. As Cokeley said, colleges won't send coaches to watch single class state tourney's. These are the two big downfalls I see with the current arrangement.

I have mixed feeling on combining all the classes for one state champ at each weight. It is a more "watered down" state title than a state that has one state champ system, but I think this too takes away opportunity. If a kid doesn't place at a state tourney he can easily be overlooked by a college coach. It also gives a youngster a great feeling of accomplishment to place at the state tourney. Some of the states that have the one state champ systems have many great wrestlers that lose in the qualifying tourneys and don't even qualify for the state tourney. I think an optional grand state would be a great alternative.

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Originally Posted By: ike
I think an optional grand state would be a great alternative.

Yes it certainly is the answer! A grand state the following week after the current state tournaments would alleviate the need for one venue. A grand state could be held at a number of arenas that are not as large as the coliseum or the new arena. Three mats are all that would be required to handle such a tournament so this brings into play a number of facilities even while the state high school ******ball tournament is being held. This tournament would likely be a good money maker which KSHSAA always likes.


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I would love a grand state but it seems that is unlikely to happen since it has been 30 plus years since the last KSHSAA Sanctioned Grand State. I wasn't advocating a total abolishment of classes only a merger. Combine 6A and 5A for one state. Combine 4A and 321A for the other. You could have a 32 man bracket for the latter if you wanted more opportunities for kids to qualify for state. That would be roughly one quarter of the schools just as 16 would be one quarter of the 5A and 6A schools. Missouri has twice as many inhabitants and 4 classifications so two would be plenty for us.


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I agree with Cokeley. I wrestled in Ohio for my high school years. Ohio has at least 3 times as many wrestlers in the state and only had 3 divisions. Kansas has 4 divisions with fewer wrestlers. Sounds watered down to me.


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I was fortunate,as a coach,to participate in each and every state tourney(meaning all classifications) Each had its own sort of agenda,rivalries,and their own tradition so to speak. I really think Kansas has done very well per capita in college wrestling in our present system. The best part of the deal,the way we have it now,is that there are a ton of kids who have had a chance to have the thrill and the opportunity of wrestling in a state tourney. That is really the deal here anyway. Very very few wrestlers in any state are going to wrestle at the highest level. If that is our focus,we will lose wrestlers in our high school programs.

Kid wrestling has never had a higher participation at the national level,yet high school wrestling hovers at the same level or drops consistently. Something is driving them away. Might be that they don't see the chance to be successful in high school,in wrestling. Our system gives a lot of guys that chance. That is not really a bad thing. Still we have had a great many ncaa placers from most of the four divisions in our state. Maybe some other states could learn from us.

Last edited by Westfahl; 08/12/08 11:34 PM.

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