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#130794 08/18/08 02:01 PM
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There is an old saying you can please some of the people some of the time but none of the people all of the time. Yesterday I did something that frankly, I don’t know if it was the right move or not, I deleted a thread.

I guess it appropriate to give some of my feelings and reasoning. The thread involving a theft that is public news had gotten to the place where a family member was making several posts and I felt the thread as a whole was possibly brining undue stress and pressure on some persons who were innocent of anything other than being a family member of the person who committed a crime. I had mixed emotions, one is, the crime needs to be reported to the wrestling community. We all need to know this is a result of an adult committing a crime, it is a part of the responsibility and consequences they need to consider before committing a crime. I believe that for the safety of clubs and hopefully as a lesson to clubs, individuals and others on things like this it is appropriate to discuss these things, plus this is public information that affects the wrestling community as a whole, whether some people want to think otherwise or not. The bottom line is I believe, the information needs to be known by the wrestling community as a whole.

The other side though is that as is often the case in situations like this, innocent family members are involved and pulled into the discussion, often times in an inappropriate way. Now let me say here, I don’t think I personally observed any intentional inappropriate comments initially, however, that doesn’t change the fact that numerous comments were being made and taken the wrong way by a minor family member. With all things considered, and after MANY EMAILS, PM”s, and a few phone calls, I made a decision that I can honestly tell you, I don’t know if it was the right or not.

That said, if anyone wants to restart the thread, you are welcome to do so, but I ask that the youth and family involved who are innocent of any crime be given respect, and I would also ask that the family or close friends of the person committing the crime also be respectful of the fact that this does in fact have an affect on others. There are issues of trust, protection of youth, and many other things that need to be addressed and discussed to prevent this type of thing from happening again. The discussion which may occur as a result of a new thread is in no way an assault or effort to harm or hurt anyone. However on this topic, some may seem to think that discussion, even negative discussion of a person who committed a crime is a bad thing. I challenge it likely is a bad thing, but the person committing the crime is responsible for that, not those who are affected, concerned or critical of the person for their actions. There may be, and in fact was criticism in the deleted thread that crossed the line in language and innuendo, it resulted in some deleted posts, and comments. Please again, all parties be respectful.

In closing I have friends on both sides of this issue. As stated, my personal beliefs are that the issue needs to be discussed, but when it comes to minor children it is better to err on the side of caution.

I won’t cast the first stone. I will also say, as the person concluded who made that comment about the first stone stated, go and sin no more. For those that don’t like the decision I made, and I already know there are many, I invite you to moderate these forums and make these tough decisions, including taking the the emails, pm’s and phone calls.

Last edited by Mike Furches; 08/18/08 02:03 PM. Reason: clarification
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Mike, I am sure the decision you made in removing this thread was a difficult one. I certainly understand removing any thread if the innocent or youth when brought into focus could be damaging. I am not posting here to debate your decision as I have too much respect for the role you play. I however would like to change the focus of this thread and possibly create some good out of it. The facts of the case are important and sharing these could provide ideas clubs then could use to implement internal changes that ultimately mitigate the risk of this happing to their club.

To begin the dialog, I will share that the Derby Club after being victimized in a similar manner made substantial changes in how we operated last year. The truth of the matter is when there is an opportunity people may behave in undesirable ways. The key is to limit the opportunities the best you can and have systems in place to quickly recognize problems if they should arise. The fact that we are volunteers doesn’t change the importance of accountability. Here are a few things I would recommend looking at implementing this year.

Transparency - Our goal in Derby this last year has been and will continue to be “Total Transparency”. Everything we as a board does is open to the members e.g. policies and procedures, board minutes, goals and direction for the season and most importantly financials! I believe this approach is critical in that it creates the accountability factor.

Not for Profit - Looks like most clubs are looking to file under the state’s group exemption letter as a not-for-profit and with the requirements Mike Juby has outlined this is a great start.

Bylaws with defined roles and responsibilities – Knowing who is responsible for what goes a long ways.

Audit – Having internal records aren’t enough. I would recommend having an external audit performed each year.

Establish policies and procedure surrounding the handling of cash, not only for tournament fees and singlet checkout but especially if your club host a tourney. It is amazing the amount of cash generated by concessions, shirts etc. Make sure there are at least two people counting this at the same time before they hand it over to the tournament director. Again, limit the opportunity. Checks and balances.

Software – Last year we implemented Quick Books, an accounting software, and it made a huge difference; not only from a cash management standpoint but from a tracking and strategic planning aspect as well.

Resources – Tap into the club’s resources for expertise. I know there are a lot of smaller clubs out there that may not have the depth of members but there are other ways to tap into the expertise within the community or at the state level. Starting with the leaders of USAWKS all the way down to your local chamber of commerce, there are great tools available.

These ideas are not only to discourage future thefts from happening but also to add credibility to your club. The benefits to have a good tracking policy in place are too numerous to list here. I will however share it has been a godsend this last year to know we have nothing to hide and everyone is on the same page. Again the intent of this is share some ideas that will help make clubs stronger and avoid a similar situation like the one(s) mentioned. If you have any additional ideas or procedures your club have put in place, please share these.

Thanks

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bump

Last edited by ravincan; 08/23/08 12:25 AM.
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Originally Posted By: Mike Furches
The other side though is that as is often the case in situations like this, innocent family members are involved and pulled into the discussion, often times in an inappropriate way. Now let me say here, I don’t think I personally observed any intentional inappropriate comments initially, however, that doesn’t change the fact that numerous comments were being made and taken the wrong way by a minor family member. With all things considered, and after MANY EMAILS, PM”s, and a few phone calls, I made a decision that I can honestly tell you, I don’t know if it was the right or not.


I believe the deletion of the thread was inappropriate. As a fellow moderator I understand these decisions are sometimes difficult however in this case, the betterment of the common good of the wrestling community far outweighs any perceived discomfort of the minor few. The amount of money involved in the MULTIPLE thefts was of such a large amount it is highly unlikely the family did not benefit from these actions. A proper deterrent to these types of illegal actions is knowledge that USAW Kansas will pursue prosecution to the full extent of the law.

Woman waives right to preliminary hearing

The Olathe News
Story published: Wednesday, Jan. 23, 2008
Woman waives right to preliminary hearing
Jack Weinstein

An Olathe woman charged with felony theft and three counts of felony forgery waved her right to a preliminary hearing Wednesday.

Eugenia L. Vincent, 35, is accused of stealing between $25,000 and $100,000 between June 1, 2007 and Oct. 24, 2007, from Klover Architects, according to court documents.

The documents indicate Vincent also forged three checks, each valued at more than $1,000, from Klover Architects and tried to cash them at Bank of Blue Valley.

Her attorney, Steve Chapman, said Vincent waiving her right to the preliminary hearing was common and didn't have any significance.

In a preliminary hearing, prosecutors present evidence to the judge to establish probable cause that the defendant committed the offenses he or she was accused. By waiving her right to the hearing, Vincent will not have one at a later date, but still reserves her right to a trial.

Judge James Franklin Davis accepted her waiver. Vincent was bound over and arraigned as if the hearing had been held. She plead not guilty.

Chapman asked for her next hearing to be scheduled in a few weeks.

"I've got some things that all parties need to go over before we can resolve this case," he said.

Before the end of the hearing Wednesday, Chapman asked that Vincent be released from house arrest, where she's been since posting $15,000 bond after her arrest in October. Chapman said she had followed all the conditions of her house arrest.

Davis said he wouldn't revoke Vincent's house arrest without a recommendation from her house arrest officer.

Her next hearing was set for 11 a.m. on Feb. 15.

Vincent, the former treasure of the Olathe Wrestling Charge Club, is also accused of stealing money from that organization. Court documents indicate she was charged in March 2007 on a theft count between December 2005 and June 2006 from the Olathe Wrestling Charge Club and another count of theft for stealing from Gastinger, Walker & Harden Architects, Inc. in May 2006.

Each felony count alleges she took between $1,000 and $25,000 from the wrestling club and architecture firm.

She was also charged with one count of felony theft in July 2007 for allegedly stealing between $1,000 and $25,000 from Osborn Energy LLC.

The March and July charges have been consolidated. She will appear for her preliminary hearing on those charges at 1:30 on Jan. 31.

Chapman, who is representing Vincent in all of her cases, said there was a possibility they could be consolidated, but couldn't say for sure if that would happen.

Contact Jack Weinstein at jweinstein@theolathenews.com.



Richard D. Salyer
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Johnson County District Court

Case Number 07CR00681
Case Number 07CR01723
Case Number 07CR02746
Case Number 08CR01242


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I also believe the thread should not have been deleted. However
there is no question it took an ugly turn at the end, and those
posts should have been deleted. Lets remember that every person
ever convicted of a crime has, or possibly has, a mother and father, brothers and sisters, Children. They all must find a way to cope. Lashing out at the victims of crime is certainly not the
best coping method.

I am trying to speak in as general of terms
as possible because the unintended casualty’s of crime definitely
do deserve our empathy. But just because these unintended
casualties are part of our wrestling community and some of us
have personal relationships with them does not mean we should
bury our collective heads in the sand.
Lets not forget the victim of this crime(the club).
They certainly have a right to be hurt and angry. All clubs
really need to learn from this unfortunate situation and take
necessary precautions in their organizations. That is why this
thread should not be deleted and that should be the focus of this
thread.


Steve Earle
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I'm curious just how much money exactly was involved in the theft from the club. I would guess the amounts mentioned were the amount required to make it a felony charge. Surely the club didn't have anywhere close to 25k on hand?


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Originally Posted By: sportsfan02
I'm curious just how much money exactly was involved in the theft from the club. I would guess the amounts mentioned were the amount required to make it a felony charge. Surely the club didn't have anywhere close to 25k on hand?


Case Number 07CR00681
FINE 0.00
COURT COST 163.00
RESTITUTION 7,090.75
ADMINISTRATION FEE 100.00
NEW WITNESS FEE 196.20
DNA FEE 100.00
PROBATION FEE 50.00
FINGER PRINT FEE 45.00
TOTAL $7,744.95

Case Number 07CR01723
FINE 0.00
COURT COST 163.00
RESTITUTION 6,903.70
ADMINISTRATION FEE 100.00
NEW WITNESS FEE 92.64
DNA FEE 100.00
PROBATION FEE 50.00
FINGER PRINT FEE 45.00
TOTAL $7,454.34

Case Number 07CR02746
FINE 0.00
COURT COST 172.00
RESTITUTION 26,653.19
UA FEE 16.00
ADMINISTRATION FEE 100.00
BOND SUPERVISION FEE 240.00
NEW WITNESS FEE 79.25
DNA FEE 100.00
PROBATION FEE 50.00
FINGER PRINT FEE) 45.00
TOTAL $27,455.44

Case Number 08CR01242
BAD CHECK
FINE 0.00
COURT COST 128.00
RESTITUTION 0.00
BAD CHECK FEE 10.00
BAD CHECK RESTITUTION 458.80
CLERK COST 128.00
OVERAGE 3.20
TOTALS 728.00
Balance 0.00

$ 7,744.95
$ 7,454.34
$27,455.44
$42,654.73


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The other District 1 theft case:

Henry L. Gallet
Case Number: 07CR01732
FINE 0.00 0.00
COURT COST 163.00 - Amount Paid 163.00
RESTITUTION 0.00 - Amount Paid 0.00
DIVERSION APPLICATION FEE 35.00 - Amount Paid 35.00
DIVERSION FEE 150.00 - Amount Paid 150.00
DIVERSION RESTITUTION 3511.24 - Amount Paid 511.24
FINGER PRINT FEE 10.00 - Amount Paid 10.00
TOTAL $3,869.24
Amount Paid $869.24
Balance Due $3,000.00


Richard D. Salyer
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I can respect those who disagree with the aspect that I deleted the thread, I also appreciate the ocmment from Mr. Earle regarding what the thread became towards the end, for those seeing those posts they will have some understanding for the deletion, for those that didn't they will continue to be critical without understanding the full circumstances of what had happened. On this issue, as I stated, I realize I may have made a mistake but it was better to err on the side of caution. I will also say the opinions at least via the pms and emails are about 50/50.

Richard, I also agree with your assesment and it is the reason I posted and said the things I did in this thread. Hopefully the discussion can take place without the things that happened last time happening again.

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Update - Additional payment made!

Henry L. Gallet
Case Number: 07CR01732
FINE 0.00 0.00
COURT COST 163.00 - Amount Paid 163.00
RESTITUTION 0.00 - Amount Paid 0.00
DIVERSION APPLICATION FEE 35.00 - Amount Paid 35.00
DIVERSION FEE 150.00 - Amount Paid 150.00
DIVERSION RESTITUTION 3511.24 - Amount Paid 761.24
FINGER PRINT FEE 10.00 - Amount Paid 10.00
TOTAL $3,869.24
Amount Paid $1,119.24
Balance Due $2,750.00



Richard D. Salyer
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Update - Additional payment made!

Henry L. Gallet
Case Number: 07CR01732
FINE 0.00 0.00
COURT COST 163.00 - Amount Paid 163.00
RESTITUTION 0.00 - Amount Paid 0.00
DIVERSION APPLICATION FEE 35.00 - Amount Paid 35.00
DIVERSION FEE 150.00 - Amount Paid 150.00
DIVERSION RESTITUTION 3511.24 - Amount Paid 761.24
FINGER PRINT FEE 10.00 - Amount Paid 10.00
TOTAL $3,869.24
Amount Paid $1,369.24
Balance Due $2,500.00


Richard D. Salyer
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Richard you are one sick human. Hope this really makes you feel good about yourself.

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I would disagree...the sick human is the one that would steal from a kids club.


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I am with Richard on this one too. Reporting on a running total until the debt is paid is a positive thing. Even though the total judgement was too low, it is still a conforting thing when justice is served.

In fact, with Richard's newfound demeanor, he might be close to changing his "warning" notice!

Last edited by Chief Renegade; 10/21/08 05:29 PM.

Eric Johnson


Acts 4:12


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I agree with Beeson and Renegade. I am glad to see what is going on with the situation. Thank you Richard.


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Keep it up Richard dont let these people hide in the dark. This stealing from kids must be exposed. These crooks have earned every thing there getting. Beeson nailed it. Stealing from children is sick. Exposing it is the right thing to do. ---------------------MICHAEL LUELLEN 785-230-3877


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but diligent hands bring wealth.
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I'm not a fan of theifs or liars either, so I would agree that this person deserved to be punished. This person was tried and convicted, but continually bringing it up on a public forum where kids frequent is wrong. I remember reading posts of her son, and if you read between the lines, this kid was devistated. He knew his mother did his club wrong, but still defended her as we all would do at that age if we were put in the same situation. If you feel you need to be updated on the status of of the payment process, maybe you should send eachother private messages. Let the kid heal.

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Update - Additional payment made!

Henry L. Gallet
Case Number: 07CR01732
FINE 0.00 0.00
COURT COST 163.00 - Amount Paid 163.00
RESTITUTION 0.00 - Amount Paid 0.00
DIVERSION APPLICATION FEE 35.00 - Amount Paid 35.00
DIVERSION FEE 150.00 - Amount Paid 150.00
DIVERSION RESTITUTION 3,511.24 - Amount Paid 1,261.24
FINGER PRINT FEE 10.00 - Amount Paid 10.00
TOTAL $3,869.24
Amount Paid $1,619.24
Balance Due $2,250.00


Richard D. Salyer

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