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#149157 07/02/09 10:20 AM
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State issues KSHSAA audit
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By Tim Carpenter
Created July 1, 2009 at 11:00am
Updated July 1, 2009 at 11:39pm

One-fourth of board members on the Kansas State High School Activities Association are convinced the management board is ineffectively large, while 40 percent of coaches believe the organization’s rules inhibit development of athletes.

These findings were contained in a report issued Wednesday by the state Legislative Division of Post Audit into operations of the private, nonprofit corporation regulating activities at 779 member public and private middle schools and high schools in Kansas.

Auditors found evidence of concern among coaches, administrators and board members about management practices, financial decisions and travel policies.

Gary Musselman, executive director of KSHSAA, defended the association in testimony to the House and Senate audit committee and with a seven-page response to an audit comparing operations in Kansas to Colorado, Iowa, Missouri, Nebraska, Oklahoma and Texas.

“The organization’s rules and policies are adopted through a democratic process,” he said. “The guiding principle, which remains uncompromised, is to do what is best for the greatest number of Kansas students.”

Auditors reported 25 percent of association members responding to a survey said the 78-member board had too many players to function properly. Kansas law requires only 60 members. This glut, the survey suggested, made it easier for internal factions to form and inhibited policy reform.

The audit showed 30 percent of board members polled thought the association didn’t fairly represent all sizes of schools in the state. There is concern smaller schools no longer have an equal voice, the audit says.

Two of five coaches answering a survey said the association’s limits on games played and out-of-state travel undermined opportunities for students to develop skills, auditors said.

The audit indicated KSHSAA:

— Devoted 42 percent of its budget to staff salaries, while expenditures elsewhere ranged from 22 percent in Missouri to 33 percent in Oklahoma. Texas didn’t provide information.

— Paid non-CEO executives an average of $103,461 in salary and benefits annually, while averages in comparison states were from $71,703 in Oklahoma to $99,902 in Iowa.

— Held $5.5 million in cash reserves, or the equivalent of 20 months of operating expenses. Other holdings ranged from $805,000 in Oklahoma, sufficient for three months, to $4 million in Missouri, equal to seven months.

— Earmarked 30 percent of playoff ticket revenue to host schools, but shared none of that money with non-host schools. Kansas was the only state audited that didn’t cover travel costs for non-host schools in playoff games.

— Was among two states (the other is Iowa) limiting out-of-state travel for activities it regulates. The maximum distance for “competitive events” is 500 miles from the border of Kansas. Iowa limits out-of-state travel to six border states and Kansas.

Sen. Karin Brownlee, an Olathe Republican who requested the state audit, said the association’s travel restrictions didn’t make sense.

For example, the senator said, the association permitted a Blue Valley marching band to perform in London on a “non-competitive” field trip, but prohibited a sports team from playing in a tournament outside the 500-mile limit but in the United States.

“To tell the soccer team they can’t go to the memorial tournament that honors a deceased team member, just because it’s more than 500 miles away, that’s difficult to accept,” Brownlee said.

Musselman said the association’s board voted two years ago to sustain the distance “arrived at through extensive study.”

Senate Minority Leader Anthony Hensley, a Topeka Democrat and member of the audit committee, said a new policy should open the door to broader travel. He was critical of the association’s decision to deny Highland Park High School an exemption to play in a basketball tournament.

“If you’re invited to go some place, it seems to me there might be a possibility to make an exception,” Hensley said.

Musselman said the association wasn’t legally obligated to cooperate with state auditors on the report, but agreed to collaborate to promote a sense of transparency.

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Well, well, well.

Sportsfan02, I am waiting for you to start blasting all of these folks for being unhappy with KSHSAA just as you have always done to me.

It is time for new, progressive leadership and membership in this organization. The overhaul has been a long time coming. The dictatorship needs to be overthrown. It is a joke that Musselman called it a democracy.

Last edited by Cokeley; 07/02/09 02:05 PM.

Will Cokeley
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Amazing how the writer of the article chooses to slant his story. For example. . .

"One-fourth of board members on the Kansas State High School Activities Association are convinced the management board is ineffectively large, while 40 percent of coaches believe the organization’s rules inhibit development of athletes."

Could have just as easily, been written thusly:

"Three-fourths of board members on the Kansas State High School Activities Association are convinced the management board is effective in size and representation, and 60 percent of coaches believe the organization’s rules do not inhibit development of athletes."

Given the number of activities overseen by the KSHSAA I was a little surprised that the percentage of coaches unhappy was not higher.

Some of us who have been around a while remember when the KSHSAA administrative board was a lot smaller. The expansion in size occured in the late 80's or very early 90's as the result of a court case which was filed due to the KSHSAA not being representative enough of its member schools. Go figure.

Am going to now read the audit report.


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Originally Posted By: Cokeley

Sportsfan02, I am waiting for you to start blasting all of these folks for being unhappy with KSHSAA just as you have always done to me.

I don't need to "blast", I believe I am in the overwhelming majority as Greg Mann points out!
None of this matters due to this small but important statement right here, "Musselman said the association wasn’t legally obligated to cooperate with state auditors on the report, but agreed to collaborate to promote a sense of transparency".
The more I try to teach you Will the more I realize it's impossible!


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That overwhelming majority could have been:

40% - Believe the organization’s rules inhibit development of athletes.

35% - Do not believe the organization's rules inhibit development of athletes.

25% - unsure

The article was unclear on the exact numbers.

Last edited by Chief Renegade; 07/02/09 03:48 PM.

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It all seems pretty clear to me.


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So you are part of the 40%?


Eric Johnson


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The complete audit report and a two page executive summary can be found at www.kasb.org.

There is enough "stuff" in the audit to support your opinion--whether you are pro- or anti-KSHSAA.

Statement from the Audit Table of Contents:

"Opinions On Athletic Development Opportunities In Kansas Differ, but Kansas Produces the 2nd Highest Number of Big 12 Athletes Per Capita Among Comparison States."


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who is # 1, and why can't that be us.

Tom Peterman


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Originally Posted By: P. Pitbull's Old Dog
who is # 1, and why can't that be us.

Tom Peterman


Tom, since we are a strong high school wrestling state, we would no doubt be No. 1 per capita in producing Big 12 athletes among comparative states if the Big 12 had wrestling programs at all 12 of their participating schools instead of just five wrestling teams. smile

Of course too I am not sure what even goes into that statistic. Which are the comparative states? Also I expect it includes women athletes. And I am not against women athletes. Women should have athletic opportunities. I strongly support that. However as far as this statistic goes Big 12 schools like KSU could be adding Kansas athletes by giving rowing scholarships to women who have never rowed before in order to help meet Title IX requirements. If these type of athletes are also included in that statistic, in my opinion it would then be artificially bumping up Kansas in numbers as to how many Kansas athletes are going to Big 12 schools per capita among comparative states. I have heard that KSU aggressively has to recruit women on campus to become members of the rowing team. Again I am not against a legitimate women rowing team opportunity but I am against the idea of creating a women's rowing team just to meet Title IX requirements when we know that KSU would not have to recruit on campus to fill spots on a NCAA wrestling team.

My main point is though that until you know completely what goes in that number we really can't use it as support to the validity of the current policies of our state athletic high school association.

Edit: I just saw on the KSU rowing website under a frequently asked question which was "What is a typical rowing student-athlete?"
The answer was essentially that no prior experience was necessary and in fact that 95% of the team members did not row before college. And if you look at the team roster from the previous year, you can see that the overwhelming majority are Kansas women. And that is great for them but it definitely could be padding this stated statistic that Kansas is No. 2 per capita among comparative states in producing Big 12 athletes.


Vince Nowak
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If you want to know what is in the audit and how the numbers were arrived at, read it.

There is a link to the audit report in an a post above in this thread; here it is again: www.kasb.org

The full report is only 26 pages and is an interesting read.
The two page summary hits the high spots.

Rowing was NOT part of the group of athletes being compared, (nor was equestrian) -- but are you saying that the young ladies who try out for the team and make it are not worthy of being considered collegiate athletes? The reason no experience is required for rowing is simple: how may high school rowing programs are there in Kansas/midwest/USA?

The last D-I wrestling program in Kansas was dropped prior to Title IX becoming law. Title IX had nothing to do with its demise, but no doubt has a LOT to do with its not being resurrected.

That said, there are more collegiate wrestling opportunities in Kansas now than there have been for a LONG time.

Read the report.


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Greg,

I will read the report, but I would like for you to read my original post again and tell me how in the world you got the idea that I was saying that young ladies trying out for the sport are not worthy of being considered college athletes? That is ridiculous. This is what I said:

I have heard that KSU aggressively has to recruit women on campus to become members of the rowing team. Again I am not against a legitimate women rowing team opportunity but I am against the idea of creating a women's rowing team just to meet Title IX requirements when we know that KSU would not have to recruit on campus to fill spots on a NCAA wrestling team.

And as for your statement that the reason no experience is required for rowing is that there are basically no high school rowing teams in Kansas or the Midwest surrounding states, I am sorry but I just don't buy that thought. I see absolutely no evidence of any significant demand from young high school age women to get involved in rowing. I have seen it for other sports but not for rowing. I have seen desire for the equestrian team from young high school women but never for rowing. If it is indeed the case that there is not a strong demand for a women's rowing team, I think it is not right that there should be such a team when we have so many involved youth and high school wrestlers without even one wrestling team at our D-1 State universities.

But it seems to be a moot point if indeed as you are saying the rowing or equestrian team numbers are not involved in the statement from the report that Kansas in 2nd per capita in comparative states in producing Big 12 athletes. I guess I will read the report and try to see how that statistic is derived. Right now it is a very difficult statistic for me to swallow because I know that football is one of the largest sports in numbers and very often I hear how Kansas is not a big state for Division I college football players. Maybe we get more Big 12 D-1 football players in Kansas compared to other states than I have been led to believe.

I do believe that for wrestling to develop to its fullest potential in this state that we need to allow coaches to coach their athletes in it year around if the coach and athlete choose to voluntarily participate year around. I also think we should allow high school coaches to be involved in the coaching and management of youth wrestling clubs. I would also like to see a Dual state tournament and a Grand State tournament.


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Vince,
Having myself been involved in a legislative audit some years ago I can tell you that the numbers are never intentionally skewed one way or another. The people who do these audits are able to somehow stay above any politics or personal biases when writing the reports.
As I recall, the sports used for the sampling were football, and mens and women's ******ball.


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Vince,

I did misread your comments regarding rowing and I apologize.

". . .if indeed as you are saying the rowing or equestrian team numbers are not involved in the statement from the report that Kansas in 2nd per capita in comparative states in producing Big 12 athletes."

It is not what I say, it is what the report says.

Lots of Kansans on Big 12 FB teams (largest number, of course, are at KU & KSU). Having two D-I FB programs in a state our size yields higher numbers on rosters and affects the PER CAPITA calculation used by the auditors--as does the limited number of D-I Big 12 sports used in determining the total number of athletes.


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Greg:

I appreciate your apology and I probably should not have mentioned rowing like that. I really like for there to be a lot of athletic opportunities for both men and women. I used rowing because intuitively it seemed to me that rowing numbers had to be part of the study for the following statement from the audit report that you posted yesterday to be true:

Quote:
Statement from the Audit Table of Contents:

"Opinions On Athletic Development Opportunities In Kansas Differ, but Kansas Produces the 2nd Highest Number of Big 12 Athletes Per Capita Among Comparison States"


It is still surprising to me that this statement would be true since the report is based solely on Big 12 football and men & women basketball teams. The comparison was on the Big 12 states of Kansas, Texas, Oklahoma, Missouri, Nebraska, Colorado and Iowa.

In total number of athletes it was KS (145), Texas (833), Oklahoma (158), Missouri (147), Nebraska (95), Colorado (77) and Iowa (67). Kansas was second both in athletes per 100,000 home state residents and in athletes per 10,000 14-17 year old home state residents. Nebraska was first in both categories. Texas although 1st in total number of athletes came in fourth in the other two categories. Everyone knows how fertile a football recruiting state that Texas is and they should have the greatest number of athletes but it is a little surprising they are only fourth in the two per capita categories.

Regardless, the fact that the study only analyzed football and basketball leaves a lot of other high school athletes out of the analysis. I would be more interested in this analysis if all sports including wrestling were considered in the study.

sportsfan02, in the audit they were using information from website Rivals.com. At the bottom of the table they state:

Quote:
These data should be used with caution because it represents only three sports, only represents the number of athletes that went to Big 12 schools, and is based on unaudited information collected from the internet.
Source: Unaudited information from www.Rivals.com
.


Vince Nowak
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Originally Posted By: Husker Fan

Regardless, the fact that the study only analyzed football and basketball leaves a lot of other high school athletes out of the analysis. I would be more interested in this analysis if all sports including wrestling were considered in the study.

Vince, I personally believe that if wrestling were analyzed it would even further destroy the argument that KSHSAA is causing our student/athletes to be left behind. As it is, using the sports that were included, I think we can put that argument to rest for the foreseeable future.


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sportsfan02,

You are perhaps correct about that but I doubt it in a Big 12 only comparative study since there are only five Big 12 wrestling teams and none at KU or KSU. So I don't think it would help Kansas high school numbers per capita in the Big 12 sports if wrestling was included, perhaps it would if all Division I schools were included.

I really don't think it is should so much be a comparison of are we on par or slightly ahead of other surrounding states. I think the Kansas wrestling community would like for us to be offering the best possible wrestling environment for our young men and women wrestlers to accomplish all of their goals in wrestling.

I know there are some other things that people would like to see done to improve the situation for Kansas high school wrestlers, but here are the two that I would like to see the most. I believe that we need to allow our Kansas high school coaches to be able to coach their wrestlers during and after the school year in their wrestling off seasons. I also believe that Kansas high school coaches should be allowed to coach and/or manage youth wrestling clubs during the school year. I could be wrong but I do not think that Kansas high school coaches are completely free to do these things. Don't you agree these changes would have the potential to offer improved wrestling opportunities for Kansas high school wrestlers?


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If a totally accurate statement was to be made based on the numbers and the scope of the audit, it would be something like this: "Opinions On athletic development opportunities In Kansas differ, but Kansas produces the 2nd highest number of Big 12 football and basketball athletes per capita among comparison states."

I find it more interesting that the audit indicates that a solid to overwhelimg majority of EVERY group surveyed was positive in their feelings towards the policies and work of the KSHSAA.

Lastly, I would urge all on this board to read the statement located at the very end of the audit and written by Gary Musselman, exec director of the KSHSAA. It is an excellent and compact summary of the work, the purpose and the governance of the KSHSAA. It also summarizes the results of a student survey the KSHSAA conducted in 2006; I think most on this board will find the results at least interesting and possibly even enlightening.


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Originally Posted By: sportsfan02
Originally Posted By: Husker Fan

Regardless, the fact that the study only analyzed football and basketball leaves a lot of other high school athletes out of the analysis. I would be more interested in this analysis if all sports including wrestling were considered in the study.

Vince, I personally believe that if wrestling were analyzed it would even further destroy the argument that KSHSAA is causing our student/athletes to be left behind. As it is, using the sports that were included, I think we can put that argument to rest for the foreseeable future.


sportsfan02, I had a day off yesterday and I had to see if this was true. I felt it would not take me that much time to do this analysis since there are only five Big 12 teams. I felt that the KSHSAA using only football and basketball in their analysis could be self serving to a position that everything is fine and change is not needed. I decided to see how this same analysis would come out just for the sport that I am mainly interested in having changes to improve the situation for our athletes and that sport is wrestling. I applied the same numbers in population for the per 100,000 residents and the 14 to 17 year old residents to the 2008-2009 Big 12 wrestling rosters.

CONCLUSION OF RESULTS: KANSAS DOES NOT DO AS WELL IN WRESTLING PER CAPITA IN BIG 12 ATHLETES IN COMPARATIVE STATES AS IT EVIDENTLY DOES IN FOOTBALL AND BASKETBALL. IN WRESTLING KANSAS COMES IN 5TH OF 7 IN BOTH CATEGORIES OF PER 100,000 STATE RESIDENTS AND PER 10,000 OF 14-17 YR OLD PER 10,000 IN COMPARISON TO 2ND IN BOTH CATEGORIES IN FOOTBALL AND BASKETBALL.

Here are the numbers for the 2008-2009 Big 12 Wrestling rosters per state:

OK-23
MO-18
IA-15
NE-8
KS-7
TX-6
CO-4

Using the population numbers in the report here is how Wrestling turns out per 100,000 state residents:

OK-.63
IA-.50
NE-.45
MO-.30
KS-.25
CO-.08
TX-.02

Using the 14-17 year old population numbers in the report here is how Wrestling turns out per 100,000 state residents:

OK-1.13
IA-0.89
NE-0.78
MO-0.53
KS-0.44
CO-0.15
TX-0.04

So I could use my wrestling analysis of Big 12 wrestlers as support to my position that KSHSAA policies need to be changed to help our high school wrestlers improve their chances to become college wrestlers. Would I be completely fair in doing so? Probably not, since it only is analyzing the Big 12 and the fact that Kansas has no Big 12 team and Oklahoma has two and MO, NE, IA have one certainly gives each state an advantage over Kansas in this analysis. All those states fall ahead of Kansas in this wrestling analysis. However, using the same reasoning I do not think it is correct for the KSHSAA to use only football and basketball in the Big 12 to support a position that their current policies are fine and do not need changing.

One thing that I found to be disappointing in going over the rosters of the Big 12 wrestling teams is that the University of Missouri only had one Kansas wrestler on the squad in the 2008-2009 year. We border Missouri and you would think we should get more Kansas recruits on their squad.


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Vince, I never said wrestling could or should be analyzed on the same criteria as those other sports. Because we have no Big 12 schools in this state it would be a little unfair to use that as the determinate factor. That is probably why the auditors chose to use the sports and conference they did, because it was the fairest and easiest way to determine a ranking. I will take our D-1 wrestling numbers vs any field given the same per 100,000 or whatever other criteria you choose to use. We will do just fine. Does that mean we shouldn't always being trying to improve? Well I think we all know the answer to that. The question is how!


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