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While KSHSAA travel restrictions in the study were only about the same as one other state in the study (Iowa), the travel restrictions of KSHSAA are no more restrictive than many other states nationwide. Some states who had less travel restrictions (Ohio), for one, have imposed stiffer travel restrictions due to bad experiences with teams traveling. Proponents of unrestricted travel say that it won't cost the taxpayer because funds will be raised privately, that might be the case for awhile, but eventually schools will start to fold those costs into their athletic budgets in order to keep up with the schools next door who have access to more private funds. Those that think our sport will be the first in line for either private or public monies to support travel are fooling themselves. Those monies will go to more 'high profile' sports in this state and we all know what those are.
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This isn't about private monies being raised or used, you missed the point. The travel restrictions that Kansas has in any and all sports prevent student athletes from being exposed to better competition and the chance to be seen by college recruiters. If its okay for a school to take their activities students to a bowl game parade to have them play in the band in Florida it should be okay for athletes to go.
If you feel the need to bring fund raising into this, the organizations that go on the trips raise their own money and it is not co-mingled with other money. The band doesn't raise money and then have the track team take some of it to go to the state meet. Marysville KS used to raise money and take their band to bowl games and parades. Hiawatha KS used to take the Biology club to the Bahamas during spring break. I don't know if either do this now, but they did for years.
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The travel restrictions that Kansas has in any and all sports prevent student athletes from being exposed to better competition and the chance to be seen by college recruiters. At least in the sports involved in the study it doesn't seem that our restrictions have caused kids not to be recruited.
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To be honest, I'd really like to see at least one school take advantage of the travel distance we already have. Everybody complains about it, but nobody that I'm aware of plays football in Dallas, which is within the allowable travel distance. We say we want to play the best, the best is in Texas, the best is within 500 miles, but we blame the KSHSAA for holding us back. We don't wrestle in St. Louis or Minneapolis or Denver, all allowable, but we blame the KSHSAA for holding us back.
I'm not saying I'm in favor of travel restrictions, because I'm not, and clearly there are events which would be nice to be able to attend. It just seems hypocritical to have a 1000 mile circle around Kansas that nobody takes advantage of and then complain that the KSHSAA is keeping us from finding competition.
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To be honest, I'd really like to see at least one school take advantage of the travel distance we already have. Everybody complains about it, but nobody that I'm aware of plays football in Dallas, which is within the allowable travel distance. We say we want to play the best, the best is in Texas, the best is within 500 miles, but we blame the KSHSAA for holding us back. We don't wrestle in St. Louis or Minneapolis or Denver, all allowable, but we blame the KSHSAA for holding us back. I agree!
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Windy,
SJA is going to Tulsa and Denver this year. The real issue with the wrestling travel restriction is that there are ONLY three tournaments that mean anything to the college coaches, rankers, and magazines. They are:
1. Beast of the East 2. Ironman 3. Reno Tournament of Champions
If you aren't from a Big Ten state or you don't wrestle in the summer the ONLY way you are going to get any recognition is to place in one of these tournaments.
If no one is traveling much inside of the restriction then no one will travel outside of it. Why stop the few who can and want to on those rare occasions? How does it make things unfair to the those who can't or don't? We just create rules for the sake of keeping someone employed at KSHSAA. I think a COMPLETE review of the rule book would result in a large percentage of the rules being obsoleted or unnecessary.
Will Cokeley (708)267-6615 willcokeley@gmail.com
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Will,
Apparently you have failed to read my post wherein I say I am not in favor of travel restrictions. I know that SJA travels and looks for competition. I commend them and you for that. The point of my post is that the vast majority of Kansas schools do not come anywhere close to the 500 mile limit and then they/we blame the KSHSAA travel restriction for not letting us travel 600 miles. Too often these KSHSAA discussions focus on how sad it is to be us rather than what could be done within the current rules to improve competition for Kansas wrestlers.
I know that you could and would go to the Beast, and I hope someday you can. However, I would suggest that traveling to Oklahoma, St. Louis, Iowa, New Mexico or Texas would be a great start for most Kansas wrestling teams and that they find the caliber of competition that they are looking for. Instead, they complain that they can't travel 501. That's my point.
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Windy,
I fully understand and agree that most are not seeking competition. BVNW has traveled the past few years from KC to Rio Rancho, NM which is 798 miles. Cuyahoga Falls, OH (home of the Ironman) is 803 miles. Legal to go to BVNW not legal to go to Cuyahoga Falls. That, to me, is frustrating. Some of the policies are don't make sense. There could be 100 cameras at a weekend tournament and the rule states that you can ONLY record your wrestler. It doesn't make sense and it is darn near unenforceable.
Does everyone on here realize that KSHSAA has created a second division of 1A? With all of the funding cuts how does it make sense to create more playoffs and awards...
Will Cokeley (708)267-6615 willcokeley@gmail.com
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There are 101 1A Schools in last year's classification document with a top three class enrollment of 5390 students. Three and a half 6A schools have that many students! Who is footing the bill for all of these buildings, principals, superintendents and other overhead? The education problems run far deeper than the KSHSAA. We are running short of funds and drastic measures are going to have to be taken soon. Do we REALLY need a KSHSAA? Why can't the AD's police themselves?
Last edited by Cokeley; 07/18/09 03:52 PM.
Will Cokeley (708)267-6615 willcokeley@gmail.com
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sportsfan02,
Thanks for linking the capital journal follow-up stories on the KSHSAA audit.
Greg Mann Manhattan, KS
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The props go to the Capital Journal on what I think was a fair and balanced series. That is the type of journalism (in-depth local sports) that IMO sells newspapers. I wish the Wichita Eagle would take their lead and do the same.
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I find the articles interesting. I liked reading this in one of the articles: Sen. Karin Brownlee (R-Olathe), who requested the audit of the KSHSAA, has indicated she will continue to look into the affairs of the Association. She raised questions regarding the data collected for the audit, which was presented in various charts.
“I need to do more research and put that in writing to (the Division of) Post Audit, to committee members and to Gary Musselman, because I don’t want incorrect data to be the basis for future decisions,” Brownlee said. I really hope she is questioning the inclusion of the Big 12 study and is not accepting that study as a basis for any type of future decisions or conclusions. I am going to send both her and Mr. Musselman my reasons for why I believe that to be a misleading study. I was also glad to read that Mr. Musselman listens to coaches. Perhaps he will listen to a parent too. I am going to send him my reasons why I think that high school wrestling coaches should be allowed to coach freestyle/greco after the wrestling season and during the school year. I really believe if a high school cross country coach can coach the same athletes later in the school year in track & field that a wrestling coach should be able also to coach the Olympic styles during the school year after the folkstyle high school season.
Vince Nowak Kansas College Wrestling Fund Supporter Please join the fight with your contributions
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It is not surprising there is disagreement with the results of the audit--especially from those who requested the audit. Those who made the request did not do so because they were satisfied with the KSHSAA. The overall positive numbers found by the LPA were NOT what they (the legislators who requested the audit) were wanting/expecting to see.
Greg Mann Manhattan, KS
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I have sent my correspondence to both Senator Brownlee and Mr. Musselman. Both of them have immediately and thoughtfully responded to me in a positive manner. My correspondence may not ultimately end up with the change that I would like to see of allowing high school coaches to coach the Olympic styles after the folkstyle season and during the school year but I do feel that I was listened to and was given by Mr. Musselman the method that I would need to pursue to have the change made. I would encourage anyone to contact either Mr. Musselman or Senator Brownlee with any of your concerns on changes that you would like to see made in current KSHSAA policies. I think they need to hear from all of us on how we feel about current KSHSAA policies.
Vince Nowak Kansas College Wrestling Fund Supporter Please join the fight with your contributions
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Vince with due respect, regardless of how each of us feels about KSHSAA, the only thing getting politicians involved with them can do, is make things worse.
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Vince with due respect, regardless of how each of us feels about KSHSAA, the only thing getting politicians involved with them can do, is make things worse. sportsfan02, I respectfully disagree with your statement. Elected officials are our representatives in government and we need to let them know when we want them to work on issues for us. I mentioned earlier in this topic that one thing I hoped for was that my son and possibly other young people who might read this topic would learn to not just accept at face value numbers that others are presenting to them. I hope they will critically look at the data and ascertain the motives of the presenter of the data. Likewise in regard to your statement I want my son and other young people to be willing to get involved in the political process and to contact their elected representatives with issues that they are concerned about that they want their elected officials to work on.
Vince Nowak Kansas College Wrestling Fund Supporter Please join the fight with your contributions
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sportsfan02,
I respectfully disagree with your statement. Elected officials are our representatives in government and we need to let them know when we want them to work on issues for us.
Vince, I dare say if you had a private business you would want as little intervention in your day to day operations by the government and politicians as possible. I mentioned earlier in this topic that one thing I hoped for was that my son and possibly other young people who might read this topic would learn to not just accept at face value numbers that others are presenting to them. I hope they will critically look at the data and ascertain the motives of the presenter of the data. Vince, why is it you are having such a hard time understanding that the people who presented these "numbers" had NO motives other than to find facts? The Legislative Post Audit is an INDEPENDENT agency charged with remaining unbiased towards any outside advocates.
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