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In my case I went to the Ted Anderson tournament and paid my entry, split gas and didnt get an extra pass but I did coach. I did by my kid lunch and I spent around 40 dollars. Now if I can find a high quality tournament in Kansas for that please let me know. Its the paying to coach, the high prices of food and parking that I am talking about. I am ok with paying a little more to find better competition. I am not ok with overpaying for coaches passes, parking and high prices for a hotdog. Cliff Keen and Tulsa are the exceptions. Derby and Maize and Salina are very good tournaments and they dont charge for all that. I bet I wont spend 30 dollars for either one of those tournaments and thats what im talking about. Not your national tournaments but high quality and low cost. Those clubs still make some darn good money by keeping the costs down to by the way. Im done with this topic time to move on so somebody doesnt strain a hernia.


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But you don't find a Ted Anderson every week either. A lot of the OK tourneys are just like the KS tourneys, but one of hte reason we go is to see Different competition. Sometimes better, sometimes not, but different just the same.

The Park Hill tourney is another VERY TOUGH tourney and costs $15 but you have to drive to KC. But ifyou do the Duals on Sunday also, pay another $15, you pay $30 for a weekend full of some of the toughest competition you will see all year.

Last year there were multi time Tulsa Natl placers being sent home without a medal.

Last edited by doug747; 12/09/09 01:30 AM.
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your right we dont. i guess thats why i am on here trying to get kansas to wake up and lets have a few more of the Ted Anderson, Derby, Maize type of tournaments. I havent been to the Park Hill tourney as my son is at top of 8 and under so by talking to guys like you just finding out about some of these type of tournaments.


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I think people need to sit down and try to better plan tournaments as a district. This way the whole district can support itself and anytime someone travels in from another district it’s a bonus.
A lot of times you see two tournaments (not Wichita metro) on the same weekend within 20 miles of each other. That’s another reason people cancel a tournament. You got Derby and Wellington on the same weekend. We always try to support clubs tournaments that support ours. But at the end of the day one of these clubs will suffer and we will end up splitting up competition.

You will also have Winfield and Sprawl on the same weekend!
You also have Newton and Bishop Carroll competing with Tulsa!
You have 6 tournaments competing with Salina!
Then you have Hutch and Haysville up against each other.


There are a lot more examples then these.
I don’t know...
Maybe a little better planning is needed to create MUCH STRONGER tournaments. These are all good tournaments that you have to make a choice on.
Again... our rule of thumb is support clubs that support us but sometimes it’s a tossup.

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But, most clubs have one or two dates on which their facilities are available to them. If they don't go on those dates then they don't have a tourney.


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I was just clarifying. Maybe I misread, but you almost made it sound like you can go to OK every week for the same money, and you can't. We're on the same page, and I agree with KS tourneys being watered down since there seems to be lots of them every weekend.

Having a couple of clubs rotate location, but run a tourney together, and split the operation and profits. Kind of a mini version of what the Wichita Classic does each year.

Doug

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that's exactly what i am saying doug. some of our kids went sunday and wrestled in seneca mo. very tough tournament with teams from south east ks, sw mo. (as far as springfield), ne ok, and nw arkansas. many of the same kids wrestled saturday at some other tournament. when tournaments go in the same district why not COMMUNICATE and ROTATE, one year team #1 goes on sat. and team #2 goes on sun. rotate each year. i realize that this will be tougher on the western clubs. it's just an idea to help out.


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Originally Posted By: sportsfan02
But, most clubs have one or two dates on which their facilities are available to them. If they don't go on those dates then they don't have a tourney.


I agree! But if we tried to set this up by district and split it up a little better or a few smaller tourneys try to combine then it would be for the better.
Plus...
Example:
Its OK for a D2 to have a decent size tourney the weekend of Salina. Not everyone wants to (or can afford to)travel to a tourney that size that far away.
Im just saying if it was decided at a district meeting or something like that then maybe we could better organize and end up with much stronger tournaments.
I know last year Haysville pulled 600 kids from 4 states!
IMO it was VERY WELL ran!
Started only a few min late, ended EARLY, nice awards!
Now that number will probably decrease cause it is running up againest Hutch.
Two good tournaments splitting GREAT competition!


Better planning equals better sucess!

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You'll also find that most Oklahoma tournaments do not split weights such as having A,B,C,D brackets of the same weight. A bracket be it 12-32 man is wrestled and most are not done as RR's or let's break the weight up for little Johnny to get a medal at every tournament he goes to.

Tournaments that announce they are going to be round robin to begin with such as Seneca had some great wrestling broken into brackets with kids that were of equivalent talents etc. wrestling each other.

Some of the oldies here on the kids forum please correct me if I'm wrong but in the late 80's early 90's we really just didn't have that many options to choose from and brackets were brackets---lose two and your barbecue dinner is waiting....

My old .02 cents.


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I like RR for the mat time!
I also love to see kids bust through a big bracket.
In the bigger tournaments or weights with ALOT of entries I dont see anything wrong with like putting As & Bs in a regular bracket and the Cs & Ds in a RR to get them more mat time and grow their abilities!
Maybe offer a special award for A&B brackets. Kinda like the way Maize split it up for the belt but without something as costly as a belt (maybe a 4" medal instead of a 3") and without charging an increased entry fee!

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doug your right we are on the same page. You cant find a tournament in oklahoma every weekend like that. now you can go to oklahoma and wrestle even the smaller tournaments and is still probably better comepetition than most smaller tournaments in kansas right. if thats not correct let me ask you a question. Do you see more Kansas kids going to Oklahoma to get better or do you see more Okies coming to Kansas to get better. Now if Kansas was to have maybe more novice tournaments to make the money for the clubs and less big venue tournaments but better rewards and benefits do you think we might actually be able to build those tournaments in the next few years. Its when you have these top venue tournaments that you charge for coaches, you charge to park, you charge 15 dollars for adults and 8 for kids and 3 dollars for a hotdog, 3 dollars for a drink, that we will not be able to build on. I still like the Derby, Maize and Salina tournament venues and will go to them as long as they keep it the way they have it and not change it into all about a money thing. I do support the smaller tournaments but do we need to have 3 of them the same weekend all within 1 hour of each other. Thats all i have.


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I think that might come to an end when clubs realize that just because they put on a tourney doesn't mean they make money. I don't think it used to be like this, where everyone has their own tourney. We've always helped with the Classic and made a little money there.

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Sounds like your complaint about kansas tournys is high price & not tough enough competion. Why dont you enter your 8u in 10u that should solve both problems. If your 8u is a world beater enter him at 12u. Wont this solve all your problems? My boys wrestle up in age some & seems to solve the competition problem for them. Keep your money in kansas. Wrestling out of state just waters down the competition worse. Wrestling in oklahoma is not the way to get what you want. Come to rossville dec 26 for 15 bucks no parking fee no entry fee cheap concessions. Enter your son 10u rate him A if he wins his bracket I will buy you coke---deal?


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I have to agree with Doug also, I take my boy's and daughter to Oklahoma and have been for the last two year's, we will wrestle in Kansas but will not hit Kansas hard until Oklahoma end's. The Oklahoma tourney's have the feeling of National tourney's we travel to and most kid's down there are on the National scene. At what ever tourney you choose you will see National level kid's. Not that Kansas doesn't have that, but the Kansas kid's you see at National's are the same one's you will see in Oklahoma on weekend's. Also Oklahoma tourney's start way earlier than Kansas with small and big tourney's, and I take full advantage of that early start there , so my kid's can fine tune their skill's and learn a thing or two. If you get caught slipping those Oklahoma kid's will teach you a thing or two. As far as lettering the kid's for skill level, I don't believe in that. Novice tourney's are fine, but all kid's have to take their lump's. I feel as though you put them in there and they get the full concept of what wrestling is hard work and determination. What kind of wrestling is that A and B on one side and C and D on the other side. When my kid's got started I basically threw them to the wolve's and said you have been practicing for 3 month's show me something. By God they did, went out and won against boys that have wrestled for a year or more and was winning. I think wrestling should just be sign up and wrestle. Not trying to take shot's at anyone, i'm just sayin. Keep wrestling = wrestling.


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ok im going to stop complaining since I guess thats what im doing. I guess trying to make Kansas overall a better place overall is not good. All I can say is good luck to everyone and I will do what I am going to do with my kids and you can do what you want to do with yours. By the way where the hell is Rosseville. Oh yeah I played football with a kid from there by the name of talifero or something like that. He was actually a pretty cool guy so guess I dont have anything against Rossville but doubt I would go there over Christmas break. Im glad you wrestle your boys up in age by my kids are not world beaters. Good luck in the future though. Im sure I will see you all in Tulsa come January.


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Originally Posted By: luellen
Keep your money in kansas.

The same principle we should have used all these years by buying American. We see where not doing so got us as a country. The same can and will happen to wrestling if we continue to look outside our borders first. I say, support your club, then your district and then your state in that order.


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a couple of reasons that you don't see oklahoma kids wrestling in kansas. 1) usa wrestling- last i knew ok didn't require there kids clubs to be affiliated with usa 2) keep your money at home, they follow that rule very well, they support their local clubs better than ks. scott i know you went to a tournament that is tough and that it was cheap, but they are NOT all like that, that is the point that i believe every one is trying to make. i do think that you have ks best interest in mind however. so does everyone else on hre. even sportsfan, even though going about it all wrong sometimes. i mean i know you are from sek, indy and pittsburg have tournaments on the same day, there was a time when that would not have been allowed to happen. now the only thing people care about is themselves. so someone please step up and make some changes at the state/ district level and help solve some of these problems.


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Originally Posted By: suckerpunch
so someone please step up and make some changes at the state/ district level and help solve some of these problems.

I don't believe either of those clubs would be going head to head if they had alternate dates available. That is the problem, are we just going to turn over all the decisions of the clubs to an outside source? We have already done far too much of that in other ways IMO. Once we start letting the district or state decide when each club can have a tournament you are going to see less and less clubs.


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Originally Posted By: bockman
trying to make Kansas overall a better place overall
I agree with you on your intentions. If I lived south I would hit some oklahoma tournys before kansas season. I think the main reason that people go to oklahoma is because the season starts before ours. When kansas is wrestling we should all wrestle kansas as much as possible. I hear good things all the time about the oklahoma tournaments. Sounds like the problem in kansas is to many tournaments on same weekend. I know our club needed new singlets & metals the singlets cost around $3500.00 metals around $1500.00. How do oklahoma clubs that dont have tournaments pay for things? Tournaments keep the cost down to wrestle. If we make the sport cost more it will hurt numbers & competition. Any one got any ideas?

Originally Posted By: allaroundwrestli
. What kind of wrestling is that A and B on one side and C and D on the other side. Keep wrestling = wrestling.
Not all wrestlers have the experence & god given talent that some have. Many C-D wrestlers have all the heart & desire if not more than A-B wrestlers. I dont see a problem with B brackets. What does a wrestler learn getting pinned in 15 seconds? Let the less experenced wrestle a bracket together when possible.


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That's why there is Novice tourney's , if you come to open be prepared to wrestle open regardless if you get pinned in 15 seconds. Stay off your back.


J. Turner
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