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Joined: Feb 2004
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To increase the number of wrestlers at the Greco/Freestyle state how if we moved it back a week instead of how we moved it up two weeks. If it was after the school year was over would we have no competition with High School Track State, Graduations, Proms, Junior High Track state, which someone told me about because I did not even knew we had such a thing. Oh and what ever else goes on in May. Or would we be fighting all the baseball leagues and lose numbers any way, having it in June.
I want to have big numbers next year please help me. Let me know what to tell the corporate and executive board, of what the wrestling people of Kansas want. We got to work together and communicate if we want to get better. And you all know the saying, "If you ain't getting better, your getting worse, there is no staying the same.
Speak Kansas I am listening!

Coach Peterman

Last edited by P. Pitbull's Old Dog; 06/15/08 10:36 PM.

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Coach, Kyle Roberts weighing in.

This years FS State tournament was 4 weeks after Folkstyle Nationals and 4 weeks before Southern Plains Camp. There was not a single KS tournament after the FS/GR State tournament like the Corporate board suggested there might be. Many of the comments I have received stated that kids did not have the drive to compete in local tournaments at the conclusion of our State tournament.

I am in favor of keeping it as close to Southern Plains as possible, until we can shorten the Folkstyle season (moving our State tournament up might help the National tournament be moved up). I would like to see the FS/GR State later over sooner. This year there was great interest in new towns putting on FS tournaments, unfortunately the decision of the coporate board handcuffed the local efforts. Case in point: WHY club and other Wichita organizers attempted a post State tournament with little interest and had to cancel.

I would like to see 5-6 KS tournaments in the weeks following Folkstyle Nationals leading up to our FS State Tournament. I think we can take a page from USAW and assign points for top placers at these local tournaments and have a series points race for Juniors, Cadets, and Schoolboys. These points could help determine National teams, and also provide us with points Champions at our State Tournament.

I agree with that old saying you referenced. I also agree with another more recent quote: "If you ain't first, your last!" It is time KS steps up and takes the lead instead of looking to surrounding states for ideas.


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I think the approx timing of FS/GR state is fine. It is my belief the more you push it back the less chance we have of keeping "the masses" interested. The hardcore wrestler will wrestle whenever you have it. To get numbers LONG TERM we need to to try and find a way to keep the younger or new to the sport interested.
I also believe by giving points for these tournaments you could further diminish the incentive to attend the state tournament. If people want to get better they will go to the tournaments that help them do achieve that objective. Besides, we have "elite" wrestlers today that won't go to our state tournament or Southern Plains, how will we get them to 5-6 local events?

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Here is what I know, there is way too much down time and lack of mat time. I think Coach Peterman is on to something that would help. Last year I believe lack of mat time hurt some of our wrestlers in fargo, I think he same thing will happen this year.

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I think you will get more participation from high school wrestlers if Freestyle and Greco-Roman State is held after May. The students I know were pretty busy the first two weeks of May studying and taking their finals as well as graduation for the seniors.


Lou Ann Baker


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I agree with LancerLou - Lots of activities going on during the end of May that a young wrestler has to choose between. More importantly for us this year for example was the pre registration information. We pre-registered and watched it's progression and elected not to attend since we were the ONLY ONE in our weight during the pre-registration process. Yes when the tournament took place we would have had some matches. However, I'm not going to take the time off of work to drive to Junction City, from Colby to get a motel room so we can "pick-up" a medal. I know its out of the NORMAL structure of a FS/GR tourny, BUT it may help if there were a DEADLINE to enter in order to participate. We have attended in prior years and had to bump in wieght in order to get a match. Not saying its a cure, but it may help if there were an entry deadline in order to give participants an idea wether they had matches or not. Just a thought/sugestion...

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Everyone please keep these suggestions coming. The board has been very concerned about the low participation at the state tournament and is looking for ways to improve the event and increase the numbers of wrestlers competing. The following is a copy of an email that I sent out to the board members last month, immediately after the tournament:
Quote:
I have the participation numbers from the state tournament: last year we had 207 Greco entries and 242 Freestyle, while this year we had 233 Greco (up 12.5%) and 305 Freestyle (up 26.0%). However, Mike Garcia believes that the Juniors numbers might actually be down, so it appears that most of the growth came in the younger age groups.

I think that this tournament should receive significant review and discussion at our next annual meeting. Since a lot of time will pass before then, please take the time now to solicit feedback from others and give some thought to what you’d like to see us do to enhance this tournament.

Here is a partial list of items that will need to be considered:
  • When should the tournament be held?
  • One day or two day event?
  • How should it be bracketed (we are running out of pairers)?
  • Should we use TrackWrestling?
  • Should advance registration be required?
  • Are satellite weigh-ins an option?
  • Should the tournament remain at Junction City or put it up for bids?
  • Do we honor requests to move a wrestler to a higher weight class?
  • Do we honor requests to move a wrestler to an older age group?
  • How should officials be paid ... how will/should the decline in pairers affect this?
There is nothing here that needs to be resolved immediately, but I wanted to give you all a “heads-up” in the hope that we can be prepared to have a good discussion in November.

I've already received some feedback from some board members and know that they are interested in hearing what the membership thinks. In addition to posting your thoughts here, I would also recommend that you contact one of the board members and discuss your ideas with them directly.

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One additional point … although we definitely need to look at ways to improve our event, we shouldn’t overlook the success that we had in a very difficult year. With the painful increase in gas prices, nearly every state in the nation has experienced very significant declines in participation in all of their events, including state championships. In California, where they have a history of conducting a highly successful state freestyle/Greco tournament (on par with our state Folkstyle series) they had a nearly 25% reduction in wrestlers (down about 600 entries). Against this backdrop, we had a significant overall increase in our state tournament. Since the only change to this year's tournament was to move the date from June to May, will we lose this increase if we move back to June?

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Again this is the first year my son participated, but my opinion is that the farther it is away from the end of the regular kids/high school folkstyle seasons and the deeper it goes into the vacation and work summer months, the more participants that you can expect to lose. I believe the best chance to get more numbers involved in the freestyle/greco seasons is to start the seasons earlier and also to end the kids folkstyle season earlier. A person I work with who is in his mid-twenties told me that as a youth wrestler in California he actually wrestled more each year in freestyle than he did in folkstyle. In my opinion the Southern Plains and Fargo tournaments are too late and I think it would be better if they were both held a few weeks earlier. It seems like it would be good if the whole cycle was completed before July to give the young wrestlers some down time for their bodies to recover before summer two a day football practices and even fall wrestling.

I understand what people are saying about conflicts with prom and graduation type activities for high school wrestlers, but at the same time spring sports like baseball and track also have their competitions in May and they seem to find ways to make it all work.


Vince Nowak
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I thought it might be interesting to bump this topic up so people this year could see what some of the comments were on this subject a year ago on what the date of the State freestyle and greco tournament should be. It has again become a topic that people have been posting about due to this year's tournament numbers being down from when it was held in May in 2008.


Vince Nowak
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Keep bumping it Vince, I predict next year it will be a topic again regardless of the date!


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Originally Posted By: sportsfan02
Keep bumping it Vince, I predict next year it will be a topic again regardless of the date!


That is true. It will continue to be a topic regardless of the date that is obvious from the divergence of opinions on the proper date that you can read in the posts on this topic from a year ago and from posts in other topics so far this year about the lower number of entrants this year.

Coach Peterman and Mike Juby indicated in this topic last year that lower numbers were a matter of concern for the Board. They wanted input from people as to their thoughts on what they thought would be the best date to help increase numbers at the State Freestyle and Greco tournament. Mike Juby also asked for input on the tournament location and whether consideration should be given to moving it from Junction Ciy. You can read the input on this topic from a year ago and I am sure they received a lot more in private communications. It was decided to move the tournament back to June and to Towanda near Wichita.

Per the numbers that Mike Juby provided last year in 2007 the tournament was held in June in Junction City with 207 Greco wrestlers and 242 freestyle wrestlers. In 2008 the tournament was held again in Junction City but moved to a May date and numbers increased in Greco by 12.5% to 233 Greco entrants and in Freestyle by 26.0% to 305 Freestyle entrants. This year moving the tournament back to June and to Towanda the number of entrants appear to have decreased to levels below the 2007 Junction City tournament also held in June with 184 Greco entrants and only 236 Freestyle entrants. This is a drop of 49 wrestlers in Greco -21.03% and a drop of 69 Freestyle wrestlers -22.62% from last year's tournament held in May at Junction City.

I think it is important for us to also compare our numbers to Missouri. They held their tournament early in May and it has been stated in another topic that they had over 500 entrants. At 236 entrants in Freestyle we are at less than 50% of Missouri's entrants.

I expected numbers would be down this year from 2008 since the tournament was changed back to a June date. However, I would have expeccted this year's numbers to have been higher than the 2007 Junction City tournament also held in June since this year's tournament was held near Wichita with a larger population base and with a very strong wrestling contingent in Kansas. The economy is probably the cause of this difference between 2007 and 2009 numbers.

I think it is very important that it is analyzed and discussed. Over this next week it will be a good time to do that because there should be some interest due to the state tournament being held today.


Vince Nowak
Kansas College Wrestling Fund Supporter
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