Wrestling Talk Forums supported
USA Wrestling Kansas KWCA
Wrestling Talk Forums supported & maintained by USA Wrestling-Kansas
USAW USA Wrestling Kansas
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,480
C
Member
Member
C Offline
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,480
Jordan Keller transfers to OU from Cleveland State! He joins Caldwell, Detmer, Maple, Bach (and Madl)in Norman. It's a good time to be a Sooner!

Last edited by Chief Renegade; 01/21/10 01:59 PM.

Eric Johnson


Acts 4:12


Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 100
J
Member
Member
J Offline
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 100
Dang, all these Kansas boys are making it hard to root against the Sooners!

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 6,248
S
Member
Member
S Offline
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 6,248
K-State, KU or Wichita - where is the program to keep these guys in state? How many guys from Kansas are currently wrestling in the Big 12? Where are they now?

125
133
141
149
157
165
174
184
197
HWT

Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,933
S
Member
Member
S Offline
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,933
Originally Posted By: smokeycabin
K-State, KU or Wichita - where is the program to keep these guys in state? How many guys from Kansas are currently wrestling in the Big 12? Where are they now?

125
133
141
149
157
165
174
184
197
HWT

It HAS to be WSU because they are the only school without a football program which in turn eliminates many of the Title IX problems.


Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 141
B
Member
Member
B Offline
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 141
Don't you mean the Big 5 for there are only 5 schools with wrestling?

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 141
B
Member
Member
B Offline
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 141
Yea just like I thought there is no such thing as the big 12? Where are the rest of the teams come on I can't believe the AD's of these schools heck some one should investigate Lew P he dropped out of investigating once he got rid of M Mangino?

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,267
Member
Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,267
Originally Posted By: sportsfan02
Originally Posted By: smokeycabin
K-State, KU or Wichita - where is the program to keep these guys in state? How many guys from Kansas are currently wrestling in the Big 12? Where are they now?

125
133
141
149
157
165
174
184
197
HWT

It HAS to be WSU because they are the only school without a football program which in turn eliminates many of the Title IX problems.



Actually, K-State is the most logical because it already has a strong club program formed. Kansas State has the advantage of needing to add another women's program that would have the same amount scholarships to meet the Title IX requirements. This would be an even trade with women's softball for men's wrestling. K-State also had a decent division 1 wrestling program before it was dropped. Kansas State is similar in academic to the two most successful Big 12 programs: Oklahoma State and Iowa State. Being primary agriculture colleges with other great programs like engineering, education, pre-med, and journalism.


[Linked Image from media1.tenor.com]
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,933
S
Member
Member
S Offline
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,933
You won't find a bigger KSU fan than myself but you are wrong. With a football program a school is most likely already slightly upside down on Title IX compliance already. When adding another men's sport you would need to add even more women's sports to stay in compliance with Title IX. Think of it as the difference between having to raise 1 million dollars vs say two or three, in order to start the program. Also, football and ******ball already eat the lion's share of a desperately under-funded athletic budget as well as produce the only revenues. You will NEVER get either KU or KSU to add a men's program until one of two things happen. Either you have some type of weighted revenue sharing system in the conference or Title IX is revisited.
A club program means nothing to the AD's except that they don't have to fund it.
At this time, if we want to have a Division 1 program in this state our only prospect is WSU.


Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 6,248
S
Member
Member
S Offline
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 6,248
After having breakfast onetime and lunch another time with one of the Kansas Board of regents a couple of years ago the WSU budget was in the red consistantly. While KU and K-State were in the black. From a money standpoint a few years back - KU & K-State were the only viable options. Talkin to the AD, President and other school officials - well those public officials are not readily available or open for discusssion. There has been a lot of work and research done on this subject. In my mind the opporunity for mens and women wrestling may possibly be one of the best routes. Or get womens softball on board. The Equestrian team at K-state has help alot with the title IX numbers.

Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,933
S
Member
Member
S Offline
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,933
To my knowledge the WSU budget hasn't been in the red for some time. Yes I don't doubt that both KSU and KU athletic budgets are in the black. But we also know as has been demonstrated over the past few years that a crafty AD can make those numbers look about any way they want them.
As I have stated before on this subject, I believe we could have a wrestling program at WSU tomorrow for approximately 1 million dollars. To install wrestling at KU I would say a minimum of twice that, for a program at KSU I would say three times that at least.
It's not just a matter of what monies are currently available but also future monies. These AD's don't want to implement a new sport that will take gifts/donations away from their revenue generators of football and ******ball.
I still question if this state is ready for a D1 program anyway. I don't see our youth programs supporting it if it required them to shut down a weekday practice to attend a dual at one of the universities.


Joined: May 2008
Posts: 184
K
Member
Member
K Offline
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 184
Could a team be endowed i wonder? Say a wealthy alum or group situation....just a thought..

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 6,248
S
Member
Member
S Offline
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 6,248
I think first things first we need the Administration at WSU, KSU, or KU fully behind our efforts. To some extent it does matter where wrestling would go in the state. If we could get the Ad's in the Big 12 who have wrestling behind our efforts that would be very helpful. It does help being part of a conference and not an independent that goes to a regional qualifier. Just because it is tough to get the administrations attention does not mean we should give up. We need the Board of Regents, state politicians, HS, Middle School, Kids Club coaches and parents behind the effort. Identify a funding mechanism over ten years. Plus fund raising efforts and ideas.

Last edited by smokeycabin; 01/22/10 02:42 PM.
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,933
S
Member
Member
S Offline
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,933
The only thing that will get anyone's attention are dollars and lots of them. I have no doubt that the other wrestling schools in the Big 12 would support a program at a conference school as it would only serve to give them an upper hand in the sports that matter by futher depleting the athletic budgets of their rivals.


Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 131
Member
Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 131
I had this conversation with KSU over ten years ago. At that time it was $500k to get it started and they wanted another $500k for a women's program. A full ongoing endowment (all 9.9 scholarships and all coaches salaries) would be in the neighborhood of $5M.

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 6,248
S
Member
Member
S Offline
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 6,248
It would be easier to sell if the women's program of choice were on board. It should not soley be the responsibility of the wrestling family to fund raise for another program. Joint effort and push for these opportunities to keep student athletes in state.

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 6,248
S
Member
Member
S Offline
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 6,248
State tournaments are great place to push a grassroots effort.

K-State, KU or Wichita - where is the program to keep these guys in state? How many guys from Kansas are currently wrestling in the Big 12? Where are they now?

125
133
141
149
157
165
174
184
197
HWT

Top
Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote Notify Email Post



#156927 - Yesterday at 06:48 AM Re: Kansas hero transfers to OU! [Re: smokeycabin]

sportsfan02
Member

Registered: October, 21 2002
Posts: 1695
Loc: Kansas Originally Posted By: smokeycabin
K-State, KU or Wichita - where is the program to keep these guys in state? How many guys from Kansas are currently wrestling in the Big 12? Where are they now?

125
133
141
149
157
165
174
184
197
HWT

It HAS to be WSU because they are the only school without a football program which in turn eliminates many of the Title IX problems.
_________________________
http://www.civilityproject.org/

Top
Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote Notify Email Post



#156935 - Yesterday at 08:55 AM Re: Kansas hero transfers to OU! [Re: sportsfan02]

Bauerly
Member

Registered: February, 12 2002
Posts: 72 Don't you mean the Big 5 for there are only 5 schools with wrestling?

Top
Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote Notify Email Post



#156966 - Yesterday at 11:43 AM Re: Kansas hero transfers to OU! [Re: Bauerly]

Bauerly
Member

Registered: February, 12 2002
Posts: 72 Yea just like I thought there is no such thing as the big 12? Where are the rest of the teams come on I can't believe the AD's of these schools heck some one should investigate Lew P he dropped out of investigating once he got rid of M Mangino?

Top
Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote Notify Email Post



#157047 - Yesterday at 10:59 PM Re: Kansas hero transfers to OU! [Re: sportsfan02]

Ricky Bobby
Member

Registered: December, 05 2006
Posts: 536
Loc: The South (or more precisely ... Originally Posted By: sportsfan02
Originally Posted By: smokeycabin
K-State, KU or Wichita - where is the program to keep these guys in state? How many guys from Kansas are currently wrestling in the Big 12? Where are they now?

125
133
141
149
157
165
174
184
197
HWT

It HAS to be WSU because they are the only school without a football program which in turn eliminates many of the Title IX problems.


Actually, K-State is the most logical because it already has a strong club program formed. Kansas State has the advantage of needing to add another women's program that would have the same amount scholarships to meet the Title IX requirements. This would be an even trade with women's softball for men's wrestling. K-State also had a decent division 1 wrestling program before it was dropped. Kansas State is similar in academic to the two most successful Big 12 programs: Oklahoma State and Iowa State. Being primary agriculture colleges with other great programs like engineering, education, pre-med, and journalism.
_________________________
If you ain't first, you're last!

Top
Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote Notify Email Post



#157060 - Today at 06:16 AM Re: Kansas hero transfers to OU! [Re: Ricky Bobby]

sportsfan02
Member

Registered: October, 21 2002
Posts: 1695
Loc: Kansas You won't find a bigger KSU fan than myself but you are wrong. With a football program a school is most likely already slightly upside down on Title IX compliance already. When adding another men's sport you would need to add even more women's sports to stay in compliance with Title IX. Think of it as the difference between having to raise 1 million dollars vs say two or three, in order to start the program. Also, football and ******ball already eat the lion's share of a desperately under-funded athletic budget as well as produce the only revenues. You will NEVER get either KU or KSU to add a men's program until one of two things happen. Either you have some type of weighted revenue sharing system in the conference or Title IX is revisited.
A club program means nothing to the AD's except that they don't have to fund it.
At this time, if we want to have a Division 1 program in this state our only prospect is WSU.
_________________________
http://www.civilityproject.org/

Top
Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote Notify Email Post



#157064 - Today at 07:20 AM Re: Kansas hero transfers to OU! [Re: sportsfan02]

smokeycabin
Member

Registered: July, 07 2001
Posts: 1206
Loc: Shawnee Kansas After having breakfast onetime and lunch another time with one of the Kansas Board of regents a couple of years ago the WSU budget was in the red consistantly. While KU and K-State were in the black. From a money standpoint a few years back - KU & K-State were the only viable options. Talkin to the AD, President and other school officials - well those public officials are not readily available or open for discusssion. There has been a lot of work and research done on this subject. In my mind the opporunity for mens and women wrestling may possibly be one of the best routes. Or get womens softball on board. The Equestrian team at K-state has help alot with the title IX numbers.

Top
Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote Notify Email Post



#157068 - Today at 08:08 AM Re: Kansas hero transfers to OU! [Re: smokeycabin]

sportsfan02
Member

Registered: October, 21 2002
Posts: 1695
Loc: Kansas To my knowledge the WSU budget hasn't been in the red for some time. Yes I don't doubt that both KSU and KU athletic budgets are in the black. But we also know as has been demonstrated over the past few years that a crafty AD can make those numbers look about any way they want them.
As I have stated before on this subject, I believe we could have a wrestling program at WSU tomorrow for approximately 1 million dollars. To install wrestling at KU I would say a minimum of twice that, for a program at KSU I would say three times that at least.
It's not just a matter of what monies are currently available but also future monies. These AD's don't want to implement a new sport that will take gifts/donations away from their revenue generators of football and ******ball.
I still question if this state is ready for a D1 program anyway. I don't see our youth programs supporting it if it required them to shut down a weekday practice to attend a dual at one of the universities.
_________________________
http://www.civilityproject.org/




Could a team be endowed i wonder? Say a wealthy alum or group situation....just a thought..

Top
Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote Notify Email Post



#157079 - Today at 09:00 AM Re: Kansas hero transfers to OU! [Re: sportsfan02]

smokeycabin
Member

Registered: July, 07 2001
Posts: 1206
Loc: Shawnee Kansas I think first things first we need the Administration at WSU, KSU, or KU fully behind our efforts. To some extent it does matter where wrestling would go in the state. If we could get the Ad's in the Big 12 who have wrestling behind our efforts that would be very helpful. It does help being part of a conference and not an independent that goes to a regional qualifier. Just because it is tough to get the administrations attention does not mean we should give up. We need the Board of Regents, state politicians, HS, Middle School, Kids Club coaches and parents behind the effort. Identify a funding mechanism over ten years. Plus fund raising efforts and ideas.


Edited by smokeycabin (20 minutes 48 seconds ago)
Top
Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote Notify Email Post



#157082 - 52 minutes 43 seconds ago Re: Kansas hero transfers to OU! [Re: smokeycabin]

sportsfan02
Member

Registered: October, 21 2002
Posts: 1695
Loc: Kansas The only thing that will get anyone's attention are dollars and lots of them. I have no doubt that the other wrestling schools in the Big 12 would support a program at a conference school as it would only serve to give them an upper hand in the sports that matter by futher depleting the athletic budgets of their rivals.
_________________________
http://www.civilityproject.org/

Top
Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote Notify Email Post



#157087 - 13 minutes 11 seconds ago Re: Kansas hero transfers to OU! [Re: sportsfan02]

John Johnston
Member

Registered: July, 30 2001
Posts: 127
Loc: Prairie Village, KS I had this conversation with KSU over ten years ago. At that time it was $500k to get it started and they wanted another $500k for a women's program. A full ongoing endowment (all 9.9 scholarships and all coaches salaries) would be in the neighborhood of $5M.

Top
Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote Notify Email Post



#157090 - 2 minutes 45 seconds ago Re: Kansas hero transfers to OU! [Re: John Johnston]

smokeycabin
Member

Registered: July, 07 2001
Posts: 1206
Loc: Shawnee Kansas It would be easier to sell if the women's program of choice were on board. It should not soley be the responsibility of the wrestling family to fund raise for another program. Joint effort and push for these opportunities to keep student athletes in state.

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 6,248
S
Member
Member
S Offline
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 6,248
Who moved my post and why?

This should be its own topic about WSU, KSU or KU
it did start under a different topic but it is going a different direction.

DI Wrestling In Kansas ?? [Re: Chief Renegade]
smokeycabin
Member

Registered: July, 07 2001
Posts: 1207
Loc: Shawnee Kansas State tournaments are great place to push a grassroots effort.

K-State, KU or Wichita - where is the program to keep these guys in state? How many guys from Kansas are currently wrestling in the Big 12? Where are they now?

125
133
141
149
157
165
174
184
197
HWT

Top
Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote Notify Email Post



#156927 - Yesterday at 06:48 AM Re: Kansas hero transfers to OU! [Re: smokeycabin]

sportsfan02
Member

Registered: October, 21 2002
Posts: 1695
Loc: Kansas Originally Posted By: smokeycabin
K-State, KU or Wichita - where is the program to keep these guys in state? How many guys from Kansas are currently wrestling in the Big 12? Where are they now?

125
133
141
149
157
165
174
184
197
HWT

It HAS to be WSU because they are the only school without a football program which in turn eliminates many of the Title IX problems.
_________________________
http://www.civilityproject.org/

Top
Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote Notify Email Post



#156935 - Yesterday at 08:55 AM Re: Kansas hero transfers to OU! [Re: sportsfan02]

Bauerly
Member

Registered: February, 12 2002
Posts: 72 Don't you mean the Big 5 for there are only 5 schools with wrestling?

Top
Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote Notify Email Post



#156966 - Yesterday at 11:43 AM Re: Kansas hero transfers to OU! [Re: Bauerly]

Bauerly
Member

Registered: February, 12 2002
Posts: 72 Yea just like I thought there is no such thing as the big 12? Where are the rest of the teams come on I can't believe the AD's of these schools heck some one should investigate Lew P he dropped out of investigating once he got rid of M Mangino?

Top
Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote Notify Email Post



#157047 - Yesterday at 10:59 PM Re: Kansas hero transfers to OU! [Re: sportsfan02]

Ricky Bobby
Member

Registered: December, 05 2006
Posts: 536
Loc: The South (or more precisely ... Originally Posted By: sportsfan02
Originally Posted By: smokeycabin
K-State, KU or Wichita - where is the program to keep these guys in state? How many guys from Kansas are currently wrestling in the Big 12? Where are they now?

125
133
141
149
157
165
174
184
197
HWT

It HAS to be WSU because they are the only school without a football program which in turn eliminates many of the Title IX problems.


Actually, K-State is the most logical because it already has a strong club program formed. Kansas State has the advantage of needing to add another women's program that would have the same amount scholarships to meet the Title IX requirements. This would be an even trade with women's softball for men's wrestling. K-State also had a decent division 1 wrestling program before it was dropped. Kansas State is similar in academic to the two most successful Big 12 programs: Oklahoma State and Iowa State. Being primary agriculture colleges with other great programs like engineering, education, pre-med, and journalism.
_________________________
If you ain't first, you're last!

Top
Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote Notify Email Post



#157060 - Today at 06:16 AM Re: Kansas hero transfers to OU! [Re: Ricky Bobby]

sportsfan02
Member

Registered: October, 21 2002
Posts: 1695
Loc: Kansas You won't find a bigger KSU fan than myself but you are wrong. With a football program a school is most likely already slightly upside down on Title IX compliance already. When adding another men's sport you would need to add even more women's sports to stay in compliance with Title IX. Think of it as the difference between having to raise 1 million dollars vs say two or three, in order to start the program. Also, football and ******ball already eat the lion's share of a desperately under-funded athletic budget as well as produce the only revenues. You will NEVER get either KU or KSU to add a men's program until one of two things happen. Either you have some type of weighted revenue sharing system in the conference or Title IX is revisited.
A club program means nothing to the AD's except that they don't have to fund it.
At this time, if we want to have a Division 1 program in this state our only prospect is WSU.
_________________________
http://www.civilityproject.org/

Top
Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote Notify Email Post



#157064 - Today at 07:20 AM Re: Kansas hero transfers to OU! [Re: sportsfan02]

smokeycabin
Member

Registered: July, 07 2001
Posts: 1206
Loc: Shawnee Kansas After having breakfast onetime and lunch another time with one of the Kansas Board of regents a couple of years ago the WSU budget was in the red consistantly. While KU and K-State were in the black. From a money standpoint a few years back - KU & K-State were the only viable options. Talkin to the AD, President and other school officials - well those public officials are not readily available or open for discusssion. There has been a lot of work and research done on this subject. In my mind the opporunity for mens and women wrestling may possibly be one of the best routes. Or get womens softball on board. The Equestrian team at K-state has help alot with the title IX numbers.

Top
Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote Notify Email Post



#157068 - Today at 08:08 AM Re: Kansas hero transfers to OU! [Re: smokeycabin]

sportsfan02
Member

Registered: October, 21 2002
Posts: 1695
Loc: Kansas To my knowledge the WSU budget hasn't been in the red for some time. Yes I don't doubt that both KSU and KU athletic budgets are in the black. But we also know as has been demonstrated over the past few years that a crafty AD can make those numbers look about any way they want them.
As I have stated before on this subject, I believe we could have a wrestling program at WSU tomorrow for approximately 1 million dollars. To install wrestling at KU I would say a minimum of twice that, for a program at KSU I would say three times that at least.
It's not just a matter of what monies are currently available but also future monies. These AD's don't want to implement a new sport that will take gifts/donations away from their revenue generators of football and ******ball.
I still question if this state is ready for a D1 program anyway. I don't see our youth programs supporting it if it required them to shut down a weekday practice to attend a dual at one of the universities.
_________________________
http://www.civilityproject.org/




Could a team be endowed i wonder? Say a wealthy alum or group situation....just a thought..

Top
Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote Notify Email Post



#157079 - Today at 09:00 AM Re: Kansas hero transfers to OU! [Re: sportsfan02]

smokeycabin
Member

Registered: July, 07 2001
Posts: 1206
Loc: Shawnee Kansas I think first things first we need the Administration at WSU, KSU, or KU fully behind our efforts. To some extent it does matter where wrestling would go in the state. If we could get the Ad's in the Big 12 who have wrestling behind our efforts that would be very helpful. It does help being part of a conference and not an independent that goes to a regional qualifier. Just because it is tough to get the administrations attention does not mean we should give up. We need the Board of Regents, state politicians, HS, Middle School, Kids Club coaches and parents behind the effort. Identify a funding mechanism over ten years. Plus fund raising efforts and ideas.


Edited by smokeycabin (20 minutes 48 seconds ago)
Top
Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote Notify Email Post



#157082 - 52 minutes 43 seconds ago Re: Kansas hero transfers to OU! [Re: smokeycabin]

sportsfan02
Member

Registered: October, 21 2002
Posts: 1695
Loc: Kansas The only thing that will get anyone's attention are dollars and lots of them. I have no doubt that the other wrestling schools in the Big 12 would support a program at a conference school as it would only serve to give them an upper hand in the sports that matter by futher depleting the athletic budgets of their rivals.
_________________________
http://www.civilityproject.org/

Top
Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote Notify Email Post



#157087 - 13 minutes 11 seconds ago Re: Kansas hero transfers to OU! [Re: sportsfan02]

John Johnston
Member

Registered: July, 30 2001
Posts: 127
Loc: Prairie Village, KS I had this conversation with KSU over ten years ago. At that time it was $500k to get it started and they wanted another $500k for a women's program. A full ongoing endowment (all 9.9 scholarships and all coaches salaries) would be in the neighborhood of $5M.

Top
Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote Notify Email Post



#157090 - 2 minutes 45 seconds ago Re: Kansas hero transfers to OU! [Re: John Johnston]

smokeycabin
Member

Registered: July, 07 2001
Posts: 1206
Loc: Shawnee Kansas It would be easier to sell if the women's program of choice were on board. It should not soley be the responsibility of the wrestling family to fund raise for another program. Joint effort and push for these opportunities to keep student athletes in state.

Last edited by smokeycabin; 01/22/10 05:04 PM.
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2
J
Member
Member
J Offline
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2
Originally Posted By: sportsfan02
You won't find a bigger KSU fan than myself but you are wrong. With a football program a school is most likely already slightly upside down on Title IX compliance already. When adding another men's sport you would need to add even more women's sports to stay in compliance with Title IX. Think of it as the difference between having to raise 1 million dollars vs say two or three, in order to start the program. Also, football and ******ball already eat the lion's share of a desperately under-funded athletic budget as well as produce the only revenues. You will NEVER get either KU or KSU to add a men's program until one of two things happen. Either you have some type of weighted revenue sharing system in the conference or Title IX is revisited.
A club program means nothing to the AD's except that they don't have to fund it.
At this time, if we want to have a Division 1 program in this state our only prospect is WSU.


Actually,K-State would still work and they are probably much closer in terms of Title IX compliance than you think. Why you ask? For the same reason Oklahoma State is! It's called a Varsity Equestrian Team. Check it out the next time you are on either schools web page and you will see a large number of girls on their teams and on scholarship which allows them to be much closer in regards to balancing out those dreadful Football numbers.

Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,933
S
Member
Member
S Offline
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,933
But they won't be that close to compliance if they add a men's wrestling team is the point. This will mean they will have to add even more women's teams in some other sports. WSU on the other hand could add men's wrestling and add one woman's sport or maybe none at all, and be just fine. Those pictures of equestian teams are fine but we don't know how many of those women are actually on scholarship. Regardless of where we want a D1 program, it all comes down to money and I think even the AD's at KU and KSU will tell you that WSU is the best option bar none.


Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,267
Member
Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,267
Originally Posted By: sportsfan02
But they won't be that close to compliance if they add a men's wrestling team is the point. This will mean they will have to add even more women's teams in some other sports. WSU on the other hand could add men's wrestling and add one woman's sport or maybe none at all, and be just fine. Those pictures of equestian teams are fine but we don't know how many of those women are actually on scholarship. Regardless of where we want a D1 program, it all comes down to money and I think even the AD's at KU and KSU will tell you that WSU is the best option bar none.


That is why I suggested that the attention be focused on K-State, because they have a women's program that they should, no need to add in softball. It is one of the most popular women's sports there is and Kansas State does not field a team. The scholarship numbers balance out with 12 full scholarships available in Division 1 softball compared to 9.9 for DI wrestling. If K-State is already in compliance with Title IX then adding softball and wrestling would make them plus 3 in women's scholarships.

There is already a strong club background at K-State. Tons of fan support would come from the Manhattan area with powerhouse high school programs located in nearby Clay Center, Junction City, and Manhattan. Not to mention two of the larger kid's wrestling clubs in the state with Clay County and Manhattan Optimist. K-State was also host to the USAWKS Folkstyle Summer Wrestling Camp for several years with clinicians like Bo Maynes.

K-State was also in the process of fund raising for massive upgrades to its facilities which would include new basketball practice facilities and press box updates for the football stadium. They could easily add on a wrestling room to the area they are planning to put the practice facility.

Kansas State has the advantage of having new administration that was just added this past year at both the President of the University and the Athletic Director positions. I'm sure they would be more than willing to listen to a proposal that would bring in numerous student athletes to programs that could be nationally competitive. Especially if they are shown the participation numbers of the wrestling programs in the state. I believe we're ranked 8th overall in high school wrestling participation in the nation. How does a state that high in participation numbers not have a DI program?

K-State is a part of a conference that has a championship series, the Big 12. Wichita State would have to go to the western region that the lone Missouri Valley program, Northern Iowa, goes to. The western region qualifies far fewer wrestlers while having more programs attend. K-State would help add to the number of qualifiers that the Big 12 could have, making it more competitive with the Big 10. I'm sure the 5 other Big 12 teams would like to fill some more spots in brackets at nationals.

It just makes too much sense for K-State not to add a program and to be the school that USAWKS seeks to add a Division 1 program first.


[Linked Image from media1.tenor.com]
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,933
S
Member
Member
S Offline
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,933
Well we can debate this forever but until we have several million dollars to pay for the start-up of both a men's wrestling and a women's softball team, none of it matters. Remember, the schools are going to expect the proponents of a wrestling program to carry the woman's sport financially as well, since it won't generate revenue either.
Also, never think "balance" will satisfy Title IX requirements.
When talking about Title IX and it's requirements you have to leave logical thinking by the wayside.
Why is KSU no longer hosting that wrestling camp? I think I know!


Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 6,248
S
Member
Member
S Offline
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 6,248
NCAA Financial Reports Database

Expense to Revenue Difference KU, K-State & Wichita State 2004/05 data
National Rank
3. University of Kansas $10,064,665
7. Kansas State University $5,489,598

55. Wichita State University $376,785





Source:
http://www2.indystar.com/NCAA_financial_reports

NCAA Financial Reports Database
Select a school to view a new financial report:





Schools ranked by total - total difference Expense to Revenue
1. University of Georgia $23,854,329

2. University of Michigan $17,037,042

3. University of Kansas $10,064,665

4. Virginia Tech University $8,265,356

5. University of Texas $7,250,853

6. University of Iowa $6,693,599

7. Kansas State University $5,489,598

8. Texas A&M University $5,307,357

9. University of Alabama-Tuscaloosa $5,297,584

10. Louisiana State University $5,080,280

11. University of Utah $4,194,506

12. University of Florida $3,873,730

13. Michigan State University $3,829,293

14. University of Virginia $3,235,137

15. Toledo University $2,791,119

16. University of Montana $2,653,379

17. University of Louisville $2,554,198

18. Georgia Tech $2,211,593

19. Old Dominion University $2,100,983

20. University of Illinois-Chicago $2,093,770

21. University of Kentucky $2,073,943

22. University of California-Santa Barbara $1,851,419

23. Texas Tech University $1,673,968

24. University of Southern Mississippi $1,658,070

25. Arizona State University $1,585,108

26. Eastern Kentucky University $1,447,781

27. University of Arkansas $1,406,082

28. University of New Mexico $1,378,962

29. University of Central Florida $1,358,572

30. Fresno State $1,340,790

31. Oregon State University $1,139,173

32. Colorado State University $1,030,996

33. Florida International University $968,252

34. Towson State University $956,827

35. San Diego State University $932,443

36. University of Massachusetts $842,586

37. University of South Florida $741,998

38. Youngstown State University $732,693

39. Iowa State University $685,428

40. University of North Carolina-Greensboro $658,549

41. Texas State University-San Marcos $632,892

42. University of Wyoming $520,333

43. Washington State University $517,490

44. Miami University (Ohio) $502,720

45. Kent State University $489,665

46. University of Illinois $481,223

47. Central Connecticut State University $480,733

48. Virginia Commonwealth University $480,698

49. University of North Carolina-Charlotte $474,849

50. Clemson University $468,178

51. Sam Houston State University $461,834

52. University of Missouri $460,707

53. James Madison University $404,095

54. Oakland University $384,267

55. Wichita State University $376,785

56. Ball State University $343,708

57. State University of New York-Binghamton $325,443

58. Bowling Green State University $318,994

59. University of Nevada-Las Vegas $299,629

60. Montana State University $270,149

61. Sacramento State $242,628

62. Mississippi State University $229,129

63. University of North Carolina $220,971

64. University of California-Riverside $216,744

65. New Mexico State University $213,682

66. Eastern Michigan University $211,909

67. Coastal Carolina University $188,281

68. University of Rhode Island $166,262

69. Florida State University $164,185

70. University of New Hampshire $145,298

71. Southern Illinois University $138,577

72. University of Akron $125,458

73. Auburn University $121,815

74. Ohio State University $120,674

75. Norfolk State University $104,807

76. University of Wisconsin $95,510

77. Florida Atlantic University $92,514

78. University of Nebraska $76,849

79. University of Maine $74,518

80. College of William & Mary $63,401

81. Boise State University $60,615

82. Lamar University $55,964

83. California Poly State University $51,383

84. California State University-Northridge $42,983

85. The Citadel $42,404

86. Nicholls State University $40,510

87. University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee $37,492

88. University of Texas-Pan American $28,727

89. University of Idaho $28,624

90. University of Texas-Arlington $26,399

91. University of South Alabama $23,504

92. University of Wisconsin-Green Bay $14,271

93. Louisiana Tech University $13,098

94. Indiana University-Purdue University at Indianapolis $13,030

95. Eastern Illinois University $10,191

96. University of Northern Iowa $10,050

97. University at Buffalo $4,806

98. University of Louisiana-Monroe $4,803

99. Indiana State University $3,298

100. University of California-Los Angeles $2,455

101. Long Beach State University $739

102. Utah State University $502

103. University of Texas-El Paso $5

104. Rutgers $0

105. University of Memphis $0

106. Northern Arizona University $0

107. Troy State University $0

108. Jacksonville State University $0

109. University at Albany $0

110. Morehead State University $0

111. University of Maryland $0

112. Central Michigan University $0

113. University of Maryland-Eastern Shore $0

114. Missouri State University $0

115. Cleveland State University $0

116. University of Mississippi $0

117. Western Kentucky University $0

118. George Mason University $-5,867

119. Indiana University-Purdue University (Fort Wayne) $-5,877

120. Utah Valley State College $-9,506

121. Georgia Southern University $-13,082

122. University of Houston $-28,524

123. Idaho State University $-39,509

124. Western Illinois University $-52,978

125. University of Alabama-Birmingham $-88,630

126. College of Charleston $-91,062

127. Murray State University $-96,114

128. Southeast Missouri State University $-110,887

129. Stephen F. Austin State University $-115,565

130. University of North Carolina-Wilmington $-117,996

131. University of Oregon $-131,198

132. University of Connecticut $-163,610

133. Purdue University $-174,663

134. University of Texas-San Antonio $-176,689

135. Northwestern State University $-191,463

136. Marshall University $-193,045

137. Western Carolina University $-218,669

138. University of North Carolina-Asheville $-248,707

139. Illinois State University $-289,984

140. University of Arkansas-Pine Bluff $-300,638

141. Eastern Washington University $-342,865

142. Appalachian State University $-377,701

143. University of California-Irvine $-416,638

144. Georgia State University $-434,627

145. University of Tennessee $-487,618

146. Ohio University $-528,552

147. University of Louisiana-Lafayette $-535,156

148. University of Missouri-Kansas City $-593,064

149. University of Minnesota $-595,248

150. Winthrop University $-618,679

151. East Carolina University $-634,822

152. University of Colorado $-762,923

153. Indiana University $-836,320

154. San Jose State University $-871,376

155. University of Maryland-Baltimore County $-1,019,456

156. University of Arizona $-1,105,126

157. North Carolina State University $-1,255,124

158. University of Nevada $-1,800,138

159. University of Hawaii $-2,157,665

160. University of Washington $-2,225,382

161. West Virginia University $-2,312,383

162. University of South Carolina $-2,655,084

163. University of North Texas $-3,106,546

164. University of Cincinnati $-4,123,348

165. University of California-Berkeley $-7,887,612

166. University of Arkansas-Little Rock $-8,698,807


Wichita State University
Football Conference: None Basketball Conference: Missouri Valley

Revenue Statement
Expense Statement



Football Men's Basketball Women's Basketball Other Non Program Specific Total


Student Aid $0 $210,854 $157,405 $1,297,409 $55,472 $1,721,140

Guarantees $0 $141,000 $21,781 $29,723 $0 $192,504

Salaries $0 $762,410 $315,629 $1,328,722 $0 $2,406,761

Other Coaches' Comp. $0 $0 $0 $0 $0 $0

Support Staff Salaries $0 $72,675 $25,784 $160,336 $1,764,451 $2,023,246

Other Support Staff Comp $0 $0 $0 $0 $0 $0

Severence Payments $0 $0 $0 $0 $0 $0

Recruiting $0 $91,742 $35,465 $103,266 $0 $230,473

Team Travel $0 $216,709 $90,845 $645,349 $0 $952,903

Equipment $0 $68,836 $28,593 $148,236 $32,068 $277,733

Game Expenses $0 $115,546 $56,113 $107,024 $0 $278,683

Promotion $0 $226,477 $2,286 $37,909 $1,676,776 $1,943,448

Sports Camp $0 $0 $0 $0 $0 $0

Facilities, Maintenance $0 $4,645 $1,886 $105,083 $312,522 $424,136

Spirit Groups $0 $0 $0 $0 $9,758 $9,758

Indirect Institutional Support $0 $0 $0 $0 $921,916 $921,916

Medical $0 $0 $0 $0 $129,711 $129,711

Memberships $0 $16,392 $3,430 $9,345 $51,651 $80,818

Other Operating $0 $85,384 $71,301 $183,207 $1,080,135 $1,420,027

Total Operating $0 $2,012,670 $810,518 $4,155,609 $6,034,460 $13,013,257

Expense to Revenue Difference $0 $1,052,661 $-729,142 $-3,006,589 $3,059,855 $376,785


University of Kansas
Football Conference: Big 12 Basketball Conference: Big 12

Revenue Statement
Expense Statement



Football Men's Basketball Women's Basketball Other Non Program Specific Total


Student Aid $2,247,216 $387,268 $280,597 $2,970,004 $837 $5,885,922

Guarantees $324,880 $440,000 $43,895 $37,484 $0 $846,259

Salaries $2,432,534 $1,789,236 $917,646 $1,764,347 $0 $6,903,763

Other Coaches' Comp. $0 $0 $0 $0 $0 $0

Support Staff Salaries $392,500 $231,410 $123,792 $130,834 $9,217,040 $10,095,576

Other Support Staff Comp $0 $0 $0 $0 $0 $0

Severence Payments $0 $0 $0 $0 $0 $0

Recruiting $294,031 $160,455 $156,547 $193,260 $0 $804,293

Team Travel $468,403 $567,064 $219,005 $1,267,837 $350,249 $2,872,558

Equipment $181,824 $22,283 $8,420 $296,348 $78,965 $587,840

Game Expenses $317,262 $504,059 $158,976 $157,558 $0 $1,137,855

Promotion $5,586 $10,201 $8,889 $5,652 $2,104,694 $2,135,022

Sports Camp $0 $0 $0 $0 $0 $0

Facilities, Maintenance $29,728 $1,760 $230 $33,136 $2,252,649 $2,317,503

Spirit Groups $0 $0 $0 $0 $226,061 $226,061

Indirect Institutional Support $0 $0 $0 $0 $887,833 $887,833

Medical $0 $0 $0 $0 $602,607 $602,607

Memberships $9,783 $8,034 $4,276 $9,864 $109,789 $141,746

Other Operating $362,644 $213,879 $166,260 $320,879 $4,252,854 $5,316,516

Total Operating $7,066,391 $4,335,649 $2,088,533 $7,187,203 $20,083,578 $40,761,354

Expense to Revenue Difference $2,753,938 $7,443,210 $-1,929,024 $-6,160,707 $7,957,248 $10,064,665
Kansas State University
Football Conference: Big 12 Basketball Conference: Big 12

Revenue Statement
Expense Statement



Football Men's Basketball Women's Basketball Other Non Program Specific Total


Student Aid $1,669,001 $329,130 $295,631 $2,067,580 $135,836 $4,497,178

Guarantees $1,180,000 $298,809 $57,887 $18,643 $0 $1,555,339

Salaries $2,919,437 $1,074,150 $624,496 $1,320,070 $0 $5,938,153

Other Coaches' Comp. $0 $0 $0 $0 $0 $0

Support Staff Salaries $757,098 $76,294 $228,300 $189,159 $6,447,701 $7,698,552

Other Support Staff Comp $0 $0 $0 $0 $0 $0

Severence Payments $0 $0 $6,635 $8,026 $0 $14,661

Recruiting $220,298 $130,900 $96,846 $142,782 $0 $590,826

Team Travel $565,526 $241,220 $398,144 $962,723 $0 $2,167,613

Equipment $220,365 $30,558 $75,298 $305,952 $79,912 $712,085

Game Expenses $344,040 $150,252 $107,754 $207,892 $327,272 $1,137,210

Promotion $86,409 $129,268 $71,534 $258,029 $1,576,891 $2,122,131

Sports Camp $0 $0 $0 $0 $0 $0

Facilities, Maintenance $202,294 $25,090 $13,177 $182,938 $2,660,937 $3,084,436

Spirit Groups $0 $0 $0 $0 $251,867 $251,867

Indirect Institutional Support $0 $0 $0 $0 $855,195 $855,195

Medical $170,459 $32,967 $13,992 $132,004 $320,979 $670,403

Memberships $25,827 $12,387 $9,706 $23,442 $36,378 $107,742

Other Operating $105,617 $38,395 $42,386 $50,535 $2,754,292 $2,991,229

Total Operating $8,466,372 $2,569,422 $2,041,787 $5,869,777 $15,447,261 $34,394,621

Expense to Revenue Difference $11,488,185 $799,443 $-1,156,428 $-5,179,739 $-461,862 $5,489,598

Last edited by smokeycabin; 02/09/10 04:47 PM.
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,933
S
Member
Member
S Offline
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,933
None of that matters because if you're starting a new sport the persons attempting to get that done are going to have to bring new money in order to get it done. Neither KU or KSU are going to spend a dime on a new sport except if it is to stay in compliance with Title IX or to improve the male sports they already have. No meetings with regents or letters to legislators will accomplish anything because both schools can demonstrate, and honestly so, that they can't afford another program. I'm telling all of you pie in the sky thinkers that you can wish all you want for a program at the two Big 12 schools and that is all it will ever be, a wish. If you really want a program, let's raise a million dollars and take it to WSU! Better yet, let's raise the million and take it to all three and see which one bites.


Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,143
H
Member
Member
H Offline
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,143
Originally Posted By: sportsfan02
If you really want a program, let's raise a million dollars and take it to WSU! Better yet, let's raise the million and take it to all three and see which one bites.


the best idea i have heard in a few days, maybe months. who's in charge? where do we send $$$? how can we raise a million dollars?

better yet let's snub the BIG 12, split the difference, and go after 2 MIAA schools. PSU, WASHBURN, EMPORIA, would all be a nice addition, to Fort Hays, Truman, Nebraska Omaha, and Central Missouri, who already have programs. PLUS it would give two chances for KS kids to compete IN STATE.

Last edited by HEADUP; 02/10/10 01:51 PM.

"with attitude, will, and some spirit"
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 6,248
S
Member
Member
S Offline
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 6,248

The part that bothers me is that the administration say they want to run it like a business. A couple of the revenue producing sports W-basketball at Wichita state lost $700,000, KU $1.9 million, and K-State $1.1 million. Pretty tough running a business with those numbers. I get it tiltle IX issue, gender equity - but does it really cost that much to have a team. Come on find some sports that don't cost so much and meet the NCAA and US Department of education guidleines. These buyouts of coaches are shameful. They either do their job or they don't. We should be more interested in giving kids college opportunities instead of golden parachutes for coaches. We as taxpayers do have a say in how the schools are running their "business" on taxpayer property. If they want to be totally independent they should go buy a piece of property and build a stadium or arena, locker rooms, class rooms etc. I think they are STUDENT athletes
first (not farm clubs) I hope. Those student athletes do recieve local, state & federal tax dollars as well. Who do you think cleans, maintains those building, provides security. That is correct it is people not in those programs budgets, teacher salaries do not come out of athletic budgets. To assume we should have no say is totally wrong.

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,480
C
Member
Member
C Offline
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,480
Originally Posted By: HEADUP
Originally Posted By: sportsfan02
If you really want a program, let's raise a million dollars and take it to WSU! Better yet, let's raise the million and take it to all three and see which one bites.


the best idea i have heard in a few days, maybe months. who's in charge? where do we send $$$? how can we raise a million dollars?


Get 20,000 people to send in $50.


Eric Johnson


Acts 4:12


Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,933
S
Member
Member
S Offline
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,933
Originally Posted By: Chief Renegade

Get 20,000 people to send in $50.

I've got my $50.00 and would gladly contribute it to the cause.


Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,480
C
Member
Member
C Offline
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,480
I am in also. That's 2!


Eric Johnson


Acts 4:12


Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 551
J
Member
Member
J Offline
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 551
3

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,555
Member
Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,555
4


Unnecessary Roughness is Necessary
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 690
Member
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 690
IOU $50.00

I'm good for it.

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 6,248
S
Member
Member
S Offline
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 6,248
I think the overall objective should be retaining these student athletes, wrestlers, softball players, swimmers, the minor sport individuals, etc., after they get out of college. Some of them have pretty good grades and careers after college. Kansas has a problem with brain drain and the business community should have a vested interest in retaining them.

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,143
H
Member
Member
H Offline
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,143
will you take a check?


"with attitude, will, and some spirit"
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,459
H
Member
Member
H Offline
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,459
Originally Posted By: sportsfan02
None of that matters because if you're starting a new sport the persons attempting to get that done are going to have to bring new money in order to get it done. Neither KU or KSU are going to spend a dime on a new sport except if it is to stay in compliance with Title IX or to improve the male sports they already have. No meetings with regents or letters to legislators will accomplish anything because both schools can demonstrate, and honestly so, that they can't afford another program. I'm telling all of you pie in the sky thinkers that you can wish all you want for a program at the two Big 12 schools and that is all it will ever be, a wish. If you really want a program, let's raise a million dollars and take it to WSU! Better yet, let's raise the million and take it to all three and see which one bites.


I actually like this idea. Many of you know I got involved in a effort with a group of individuals in Kansas a few years ago to try to convince one of our three Kansas D-1 universities to add wrestling. We ran into many of the roadblocks that you have all been discussing. Over the years that I was involved in the effort I became convinced that the only way to actually get wrestling added would be thru the raising of money. I believe that we need to show these universities that the wrestling community is going to financially support wrestling in a significant way. A couple of years ago on the national wrestling forum this issue was discussed and the idea of a National College Wrestling Endowment fund was discussed. Cael Sanderson became an advocate of the concept at that time. I had some correspondence with the leaders of the National Wrestling Coaches Association. They were considering launching such a fund and fund raising effort. I think the idea fizzled out when the stock market and economy started to crash in late 2007 and into 2008. As far as I know they never launched the Endowment fund.

But I do still think that is the way to add college wrestling programs. We have to endow these colleges for their wrestling programs. Right now I am doing that with Baker University where my son started wrestling for this year. But I would still be willing to get involved with a new endowment fund with the purpose of funding all Kansas college wrestling. I think that funding could be directed at all our Kansas colleges. I would be okay with the main objective being first getting a D-1 school established. I think a non for profit would have to be formed with an elected Board. I would be willing to get involved with a group working to establish such a non for profit along with financially contributing to the Kansas College Endowment Fund.

Edit ( I just bumped on the high school forum the topic I started in May 2008 that introduced the National College Wrestling Endowment Fund concept)

Last edited by Husker Fan; 02/11/10 08:11 PM.

Vince Nowak
Kansas College Wrestling Fund Supporter
Please join the fight with your contributions

Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,933
S
Member
Member
S Offline
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,933
Originally Posted By: windjammer
IOU $50.00

I'm good for it.

Just post-date a check out about 10 years.


Page 2 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  RichardDSalyer 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 9 guests, and 0 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Super Admin, bvswwrestling, CoachFitzOS, Dluce, Shawn Russell
12,303 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums11
Topics36,091
Posts250,722
Members12,303
Most Online1,305
Mar 13th, 2025
Top Posters
usawks1 8,595
smokeycabin 6,248
Aaron Sweazy 5,262
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 8.0.0
(Release build 20240826)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 8.3.23 Page Time: 0.056s Queries: 84 (0.043s) Memory: 3.2534 MB (Peak: 3.5912 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2025-08-01 17:30:45 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS